It seems to me that although things like lighting and power supplies are
more efficient and small, the care taken to suppress the sort of crud they
radiate down the mains is ridiculous. As a person who has had the hobby of
listening to the vast expanses of the radio spectrum, and finding
everything CE marketed, I have to ask myself if either the specs are too
lenient, or are ignored. Obviously its the switch mode psus that are most of
the problem, as a system of dropping a mains voltage down to that needed by
the equipment by using directly connected high frequency and none to clean
waveforms makes transformers smaller and more efficient.
Short of going to a remote part of the country and running from batteries,
I think the problem has gone too far now. The train has left the station, so
to speak. People say that the lack of the use of AM medium and short wave
radio is because of DAB and the internet, but a whole lot of the problem is
the noise floor in any built up area. Obviously if you were making
electronic stuff yourself, you could make it clean, but because everyone
else buys the cheap Chinese crap lights and wall warts, my hobby is doomed.
Brian

--

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The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!

On 06/01/2024 09:11, Brian Gaff wrote:
> It seems to me that although things like lighting and power supplies are
> more efficient and small, the care taken to suppress the sort of crud they
> radiate down the mains is ridiculous. As a person who has had the hobby of
> listening to the vast expanses of the radio spectrum, and finding
> everything CE marketed, I have to ask myself if either the specs are too
> lenient, or are ignored. Obviously its the switch mode psus that are most of
> the problem, as a system of dropping a mains voltage down to that needed by
> the equipment by using directly connected high frequency and none to clean
> waveforms makes transformers smaller and more efficient.
> Short of going to a remote part of the country and running from batteries,
> I think the problem has gone too far now. The train has left the station, so
> to speak. People say that the lack of the use of AM medium and short wave
> radio is because of DAB and the internet, but a whole lot of the problem is
> the noise floor in any built up area. Obviously if you were making
> electronic stuff yourself, you could make it clean, but because everyone
> else buys the cheap Chinese crap lights and wall warts, my hobby is doomed.
> Brian
>

It ignored and Ofcom don't see it as their business to ensure the
airwaves are kept clear of shite.

People want cheap shit. That's what they get. If it buggers up something
else they don't care as long as the something else isn't theirs.

On 1/6/2024 9:11 AM, Brian Gaff wrote:
> It seems to me that although things like lighting and power supplies are
> more efficient and small, the care taken to suppress the sort of crud they
> radiate down the mains is ridiculous. As a person who has had the hobby of
> listening to the vast expanses of the radio spectrum, and finding
> everything CE marketed, I have to ask myself if either the specs are too
> lenient, or are ignored. Obviously its the switch mode psus that are most of
> the problem, as a system of dropping a mains voltage down to that needed by
> the equipment by using directly connected high frequency and none to clean
> waveforms makes transformers smaller and more efficient.
> Short of going to a remote part of the country and running from batteries,
> I think the problem has gone too far now. The train has left the station, so
> to speak. People say that the lack of the use of AM medium and short wave
> radio is because of DAB and the internet, but a whole lot of the problem is
> the noise floor in any built up area. Obviously if you were making
> electronic stuff yourself, you could make it clean, but because everyone
> else buys the cheap Chinese crap lights and wall warts, my hobby is doomed.
> Brian
>
chinky crap is the problem

On 1/6/2024 9:35 AM, mm0fmf wrote:
> On 06/01/2024 09:11, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> It seems to me that although things like lighting and power supplies are
>> more efficient and  small, the care taken to suppress the sort of crud
>> they
>> radiate down the mains is ridiculous. As a person who has had the
>> hobby of
>> listening to  the vast expanses of the radio spectrum, and finding
>> everything CE marketed, I have to ask myself if either the specs are too
>> lenient, or are ignored. Obviously its the switch mode psus that are
>> most of
>> the problem, as a system of dropping a mains voltage down to that
>> needed by
>> the equipment by using directly connected high frequency and none to
>> clean
>> waveforms makes transformers smaller and more efficient.
>>   Short of going to a remote part of the country and running from
>> batteries,
>> I think the problem has gone too far now. The train has left the
>> station, so
>> to speak. People say that the lack of the use of AM medium and short wave
>> radio is because of DAB and the internet, but a whole lot of the
>> problem is
>> the noise floor in any built up area. Obviously if you were making
>> electronic stuff yourself, you could make it clean, but because everyone
>> else buys the cheap Chinese crap lights and wall warts,  my hobby is
>> doomed.
>>   Brian
>>
>
> It ignored and Ofcom don't see it as their business to ensure the
> airwaves are kept clear of shite.
>
> People want cheap shit. That's what they get. If it buggers up something
> else they don't care as long as the something else isn't theirs.
>
ofcon couldn't wipe their own arse

Jim GM4DHJ ... <kinvig.netta@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On 1/6/2024 9:11 AM, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> It seems to me that although things like lighting and power supplies are
>> more efficient and small, the care taken to suppress the sort of crud they
>> radiate down the mains is ridiculous. As a person who has had the hobby of
>> listening to the vast expanses of the radio spectrum, and finding
>> everything CE marketed, I have to ask myself if either the specs are too
>> lenient, or are ignored. Obviously its the switch mode psus that are most of
>> the problem, as a system of dropping a mains voltage down to that needed by
>> the equipment by using directly connected high frequency and none to clean
>> waveforms makes transformers smaller and more efficient.
>> Short of going to a remote part of the country and running from batteries,
>> I think the problem has gone too far now. The train has left the station, so
>> to speak. People say that the lack of the use of AM medium and short wave
>> radio is because of DAB and the internet, but a whole lot of the problem is
>> the noise floor in any built up area. Obviously if you were making
>> electronic stuff yourself, you could make it clean, but because everyone
>> else buys the cheap Chinese crap lights and wall warts, my hobby is doomed.
>> Brian
>>
> chinky crap is the problem

Is this MFJ device worth a try?

<https://www.hamradio.co.uk/mfj-1026-deluxe-noise-cancel-enhancer-antenna-pd-5442?gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIj9zRyt7IgwMVapJoCR2ojABGEAQYASABEgJRzfD_BwE>

--
Cheers, Alan

On 06/01/2024 09:11, Brian Gaff wrote:
> It seems to me that although things like lighting and power supplies are
> more efficient and small, the care taken to suppress the sort of crud they
> radiate down the mains is ridiculous. As a person who has had the hobby of
> listening to the vast expanses of the radio spectrum, and finding
> everything CE marketed, I have to ask myself if either the specs are too
> lenient, or are ignored.

My experience is that they are largely ignored and only when there are
extra safety criteria such as medical equipment will a full suite of
tests carried out.

The UK manufacturer or UK import is responsible for any testing even if
used in a one-off research environment.

I have imported items through Ali-Express and never asked for the item's
technical file yet I am technically responsible.

> Obviously its the switch mode psus that are most of
> the problem, as a system of dropping a mains voltage down to that needed by
> the equipment by using directly connected high frequency and none to clean
> waveforms makes transformers smaller and more efficient.

Of all the things you cite these have least legislation as they operate
at too low a frequency for much of the testing. The mains harmonic
requirements are pretty lax.

> Short of going to a remote part of the country and running from batteries,
> I think the problem has gone too far now. The train has left the station, so
> to speak. People say that the lack of the use of AM medium and short wave
> radio is because of DAB and the internet, but a whole lot of the problem is
> the noise floor in any built up area. Obviously if you were making
> electronic stuff yourself, you could make it clean, but because everyone
> else buys the cheap Chinese crap lights and wall warts, my hobby is doomed.

Many amateur astronomers say the same about skies. I guess it's progress
for the many at the expense of people like you.

The only positive thing about mains born interference is it's very
local, hence your meets in rural areas frequented by doggers? :-)

Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote

> It seems to me that although things like lighting and power suppliesare
> more efficient and small, the care taken to suppress the sort ofcrud
> they radiate down the mains is ridiculous. As a person who hashad the
> hobby of listening to the vast expanses of the radio spectrum,

Why should we all be paying more so that a microscopic
minority who choose to have that hobby can do that ?

> and finding everything CE marketed, I have to ask myselfif either the
> specs are too lenient, or are ignored.

In many caces the CE mark is a lie.

> Obviously its the switch mode psus that are most of theproblem, as a
> system of dropping a mains voltage downto that needed by the equipment
> by using directlyconnected high frequency and none to clean waveforms
> makes transformers smaller and more efficient.

> Short of going to a remote part of thecountry and running from
> batteries,

And doing that won't fix the problem with over the horizon radar etc.

> I think the problem has gone too far now.The train has left the
> station, so to speak.

Yep, you are pissing against the wind.

> People say that the lack of the use of AM medium andshort wave radio is
> because of DAB and the internet,

And they are correct about that.

> but a whole lot of the problem is
> the noise floor in any built up area.

Nope, that isnt the reason hardly anyone is silly enough
to still be using AM medium and short wave radio

> Obviously if you were making electronic stuff yourself, youcould make
> it clean, but because everyone else buys thecheap Chinese crap lights
> and wall warts, my hobby is doomed.

And like I said, why should we all be paying more so that a
microscopic minority who choose to have that hobby can do that ?

On Sun, 07 Jan 2024 04:16:45 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
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and totally irresponsible talk. Your mouth could get you into a lot of
trouble."
MID: <gfbb94Fb4a4U1@mid.individual.net>

On 1/6/2024 12:17 PM, Alan B wrote:
> Jim GM4DHJ ... <kinvig.netta@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> On 1/6/2024 9:11 AM, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>> It seems to me that although things like lighting and power supplies are
>>> more efficient and small, the care taken to suppress the sort of crud they
>>> radiate down the mains is ridiculous. As a person who has had the hobby of
>>> listening to the vast expanses of the radio spectrum, and finding
>>> everything CE marketed, I have to ask myself if either the specs are too
>>> lenient, or are ignored. Obviously its the switch mode psus that are most of
>>> the problem, as a system of dropping a mains voltage down to that needed by
>>> the equipment by using directly connected high frequency and none to clean
>>> waveforms makes transformers smaller and more efficient.
>>> Short of going to a remote part of the country and running from batteries,
>>> I think the problem has gone too far now. The train has left the station, so
>>> to speak. People say that the lack of the use of AM medium and short wave
>>> radio is because of DAB and the internet, but a whole lot of the problem is
>>> the noise floor in any built up area. Obviously if you were making
>>> electronic stuff yourself, you could make it clean, but because everyone
>>> else buys the cheap Chinese crap lights and wall warts, my hobby is doomed.
>>> Brian
>>>
>> chinky crap is the problem
>
> Is this MFJ device worth a try?
>
> <https://www.hamradio.co.uk/mfj-1026-deluxe-noise-cancel-enhancer-antenna-pd-5442?gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIj9zRyt7IgwMVapJoCR2ojABGEAQYASABEgJRzfD_BwE>
>
probably but not MFJ

Tried all of these phase out your noise devices. Unfortunately, due to it
coming in from all around getting an anti phase signal is impossible. The
other device is of course the digital noise reducer made by BHI, but you
cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear as the saying goes, and all it
does is use fast Fourier transforms to match the noise spectrum and then let
the audio through, but the more noise there is the more terrible the actual
audio sounds. It is basically a filter after all.
No the only way would be to find a convenient place with no noise and build
your aerial farm there, all under remote control over the internet, and
shove a decent receiver there with an internet feed and all the controls at
your end. These do exist on the web of course, Web SDRs abound these days,
but very fiew have sufficient controllability for each user, and have a
limited number of users. Besides half the fun is designing aerials and
tweaking things to get better reception. Not much good if you have to take a
taxi ride there if anything goes wrong, let alone of getting an internet
feed in the middle of nowhere, and a mains connection and renting the land
off of the farmer and getting planning permission. Brian

--

--:
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Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:unbgdm$jek2$1@alanrichardbarker.eternal-september.org...
> Jim GM4DHJ ... <kinvig.netta@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> On 1/6/2024 9:11 AM, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>> It seems to me that although things like lighting and power supplies are
>>> more efficient and small, the care taken to suppress the sort of crud
>>> they
>>> radiate down the mains is ridiculous. As a person who has had the hobby
>>> of
>>> listening to the vast expanses of the radio spectrum, and finding
>>> everything CE marketed, I have to ask myself if either the specs are too
>>> lenient, or are ignored. Obviously its the switch mode psus that are
>>> most of
>>> the problem, as a system of dropping a mains voltage down to that needed
>>> by
>>> the equipment by using directly connected high frequency and none to
>>> clean
>>> waveforms makes transformers smaller and more efficient.
>>> Short of going to a remote part of the country and running from
>>> batteries,
>>> I think the problem has gone too far now. The train has left the
>>> station, so
>>> to speak. People say that the lack of the use of AM medium and short
>>> wave
>>> radio is because of DAB and the internet, but a whole lot of the problem
>>> is
>>> the noise floor in any built up area. Obviously if you were making
>>> electronic stuff yourself, you could make it clean, but because everyone
>>> else buys the cheap Chinese crap lights and wall warts, my hobby is
>>> doomed.
>>> Brian
>>>
>> chinky crap is the problem
>
> Is this MFJ device worth a try?
>
> <https://www.hamradio.co.uk/mfj-1026-deluxe-noise-cancel-enhancer-antenna-pd-5442?gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIj9zRyt7IgwMVapJoCR2ojABGEAQYASABEgJRzfD_BwE>
>
> --
> Cheers, Alan

I think you are rather missing the point here. If you are going to make a
device efficiently, then the last thing you should be doing is generating RF
with harmonics to infinity. It seemingly is possible to make swictch mode
devices that do not saturate the ferrite cores of the small transformers,
and do not produce spikes of crud.Its a trend toward cheap and cruddy making
of things. Back in the days of 405tv, there was uproar when the timebases of
the tvs started to interfere with long wave radio. In the end most makers of
sets started to screen the power devices or design them not to radiate and
unless you were right up close you never heard the whine any more.
Of course I guess you could say that Long wave was used a lot more in the
early days of TV, and so there were more people to moan.
I'd like to think that if a job is worth doing its worth doing well, and
yet nobody seems to think this is what good design is all about.
Brian

--

--:
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briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:op.2g4x97ehbyq249@pvr2.lan...
> Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote
>
>> It seems to me that although things like lighting and power suppliesare
>> more efficient and small, the care taken to suppress the sort ofcrud
>> they radiate down the mains is ridiculous. As a person who hashad the
>> hobby of listening to the vast expanses of the radio spectrum,
>
> Why should we all be paying more so that a microscopic
> minority who choose to have that hobby can do that ?
>
>> and finding everything CE marketed, I have to ask myselfif either the
>> specs are too lenient, or are ignored.
>
> In many caces the CE mark is a lie.
>
>> Obviously its the switch mode psus that are most of theproblem, as a
>> system of dropping a mains voltage downto that needed by the equipment
>> by using directlyconnected high frequency and none to clean waveforms
>> makes transformers smaller and more efficient.
>
>> Short of going to a remote part of thecountry and running from
>> batteries,
>
> And doing that won't fix the problem with over the horizon radar etc.
>
>> I think the problem has gone too far now.The train has left the
>> station, so to speak.
>
> Yep, you are pissing against the wind.
>
>> People say that the lack of the use of AM medium andshort wave radio is
>> because of DAB and the internet,
>
> And they are correct about that.
>
>> but a whole lot of the problem is
>> the noise floor in any built up area.
>
> Nope, that isnt the reason hardly anyone is silly enough
> to still be using AM medium and short wave radio
>
>> Obviously if you were making electronic stuff yourself, youcould make
>> it clean, but because everyone else buys thecheap Chinese crap lights
>> and wall warts, my hobby is doomed.
>
> And like I said, why should we all be paying more so that a
> microscopic minority who choose to have that hobby can do that ?

On 07/01/2024 14:29, Brian Gaff wrote:
> I think you are rather missing the point here. If you are going to make a
> device efficiently, then the last thing you should be doing is generating RF
> with harmonics to infinity. It seemingly is possible to make swictch mode
> devices that do not saturate the ferrite cores of the small transformers,
> and do not produce spikes of crud.Its a trend toward cheap and cruddy making
> of things. Back in the days of 405tv, there was uproar when the timebases of
> the tvs started to interfere with long wave radio. In the end most makers of
> sets started to screen the power devices or design them not to radiate and
> unless you were right up close you never heard the whine any more.
> Of course I guess you could say that Long wave was used a lot more in the
> early days of TV, and so there were more people to moan.
> I'd like to think that if a job is worth doing its worth doing well, and
> yet nobody seems to think this is what good design is all about.
> Brian

Good design is to minimise cost and still stay within the rules of RF
emissions.

That is a job that is generally done well, and indeed has to be in a
competitive world.

The line output timebase of a 405 line set was at 10.125kHz, and with a
lot of energy in a resonant circuit. It was always going to leak a small
amount of 20th harmonic.

I thought there was more an issue with 625 line sets, where the odd 13th
harmonic would beat with 198/200 kHz? Especially with colour purity
adjustments that deliberately created odd harmonics.

Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote

> I think you are rather missing the point here.

Nope.

> If you are going to make a device efficiently,then the last thing you
> should be doing isgenerating RF with harmonics to infinity.

In fact fuck all of the energy produced is wasted in those harmonics.

And the alternative approach to a switch mode power
suppy or plug pack wastes FAR more in the transformer.

AND the designer doesnt actually give a shit about
ultimate efficienty anyway, they care about the cost
of the components needed to minimise the harmonics.

> It seemingly is possible to make swictch mode devicesthat do not
> saturate the ferrite cores of the small transformers, and do not
> produce spikes of crud.Its a trend toward cheapand cruddy making of
> things.

Yes, but that costs a lot more component wise than
the much more basic designs they choose to use.

> Back in the days of 405tv, there was uproar when the timebases of the
> tvs started to interfere with long waveradio. In the end most makers
> of sets started to screenthe power devices or design them not to
> radiate and unlessyou were right up close you never heard the whine
> any more.

And now only a microscopic handful of people like
you bother with long wave radio at all, so no one in
chine is silly enough to spend more on plug packs so
that that microscopic handful can continue to do what.

> Of course I guess you could say that Long wavewas used a lot more in
> the early days of TV,and so there were more people to moan.

Of course there was. And what drove TV design
then was completely different to what drives the
design of switch plug packs in china today

> I'd like to think that if a job is worth doing its worth doing well,

Those who design switch plug packs in china today dont
operate like that. Can't imagine why for the life of me.

> and yet nobody seems to think thisis what good design is all about.

Some still do, most obviously with Apple and rolls royce jet engines,
but not those who design switch plug packs in china today

Fredxx <fredxx@spam.invalid> wrote
> Brian Gaff wrote

>> I think you are rather missing the point here. If you are going to make
>> a
>> device efficiently, then the last thing you should be doing is
>> generating RF
>> with harmonics to infinity. It seemingly is possible to make swictch
>> mode
>> devices that do not saturate the ferrite cores of the small
>> transformers,
>> and do not produce spikes of crud.Its a trend toward cheap and cruddy
>> making
>> of things. Back in the days of 405tv, there was uproar when the
>> timebases of
>> the tvs started to interfere with long wave radio. In the end most
>> makers of
>> sets started to screen the power devices or design them not to radiate
>> and
>> unless you were right up close you never heard the whine any more.
>> Of course I guess you could say that Long wave was used a lot more in
>> the
>> early days of TV, and so there were more people to moan.
>> I'd like to think that if a job is worth doing its worth doing well,
>> and
>> yet nobody seems to think this is what good design is all about.
>> Brian
>
> Good design is to minimise cost and still stay within the rules of RF
> emissions.

There are no such rules.

> That is a job that is generally done well, and indeed has to be in a
> competitive world.

> The line output timebase of a 405 line set was at 10.125kHz, and with a
> lot of energy in a resonant circuit. It was always going to leak a small
> amount of 20th harmonic.

> I thought there was more an issue with 625 line sets, where the odd 13th
> harmonic would beat with 198/200 kHz? Especially with colour purity
> adjustments that deliberately created odd harmonics.

On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 05:22:42 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
MrTurnip@down.the.farm about senile Rodent Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID: <ps10v9$uo2$1@gioia.aioe.org>

On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 05:24:48 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
R Souls addressing the trolling senile Australian cretin:
"Your opinions are unwelcome and worthless. Now fuck off."
MID: <urs8jh59laqeeb0seg1erij61m383reog5@4ax.com>

In article <op.2g6v3mzabyq249@pvr2.lan>, Rod Speed
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
> Fredxx <fredxx@spam.invalid> wrote
> > Brian Gaff wrote

> >> I think you are rather missing the point here. If you are going to
> >> make a device efficiently, then the last thing you should be doing is
> >> generating RF with harmonics to infinity. It seemingly is possible to
> >> make swictch mode devices that do not saturate the ferrite cores of
> >> the small transformers, and do not produce spikes of crud.Its a trend
> >> toward cheap and cruddy making of things. Back in the days of 405tv,
> >> there was uproar when the timebases of the tvs started to interfere
> >> with long wave radio. In the end most makers of sets started to screen
> >> the power devices or design them not to radiate and unless you were
> >> right up close you never heard the whine any more. Of course I guess
> >> you could say that Long wave was used a lot more in the early days of
> >> TV, and so there were more people to moan. I'd like to think that if a
> >> job is worth doing its worth doing well, and yet nobody seems to think
> >> this is what good design is all about. Brian
> >
> > Good design is to minimise cost and still stay within the rules of RF
> > emissions.

> There are no such rules.

Maybe not is Auzzie land, but there are in the EU. Possibly they still
exist in the UK

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té²
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 07/01/2024 18:24, Rod Speed wrote:
> Fredxx <fredxx@spam.invalid> wrote
>> Brian Gaff wrote
>
>>> I think you are rather missing the point here. If you are going to
>>> make a
>>> device efficiently, then the last thing you should be doing is
>>> generating RF
>>> with harmonics to infinity. It seemingly is possible to make swictch
>>> mode
>>> devices that do not saturate the ferrite cores of the small
>>> transformers,
>>> and do not produce spikes of crud.Its a trend toward cheap and cruddy
>>> making
>>> of things. Back in the days of 405tv, there was uproar when the
>>> timebases of
>>> the tvs started to interfere with long wave radio. In the end most
>>> makers of
>>> sets started to screen the power devices or design them not to
>>> radiate and
>>> unless you were right up close you never heard the whine any more.
>>>   Of course I guess you could say that Long wave was used a lot more
>>> in the
>>> early days of TV, and so there were more people to moan.
>>>   I'd like to think that if a job is worth doing its worth doing
>>> well, and
>>> yet nobody seems to think this is what good design is all about.
>>>   Brian
>>
>> Good design is to minimise cost and still stay within the rules of RF
>> emissions.
>
> There are no such rules.

This is UK.D-I-Y and I can assure you there are in the UK.

On 07/01/2024 18:22, Rod Speed wrote:
> Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote
>
>> I think you are rather missing the point here.
>
> Nope.
>
>> If you are going to make a  device efficiently,then the  last thing
>> you should be doing isgenerating RF  with harmonics to infinity.
>
> In fact fuck all of the energy produced is wasted in those harmonics.
>
> And the alternative approach to a switch mode power
> suppy or plug pack wastes FAR more in the transformer.
>
> AND the designer doesnt actually give a shit about
> ultimate efficienty anyway, they care about the cost
> of the components needed to minimise the harmonics.

Inefficiency creates heat that has it's own issues. He does care about
efficiency although that may be a secondary consideration over cost.

You've obviously never designed anything of value.

charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Fredxx <fredxx@spam.invalid> wrote
>>> Brian Gaff wrote

>>>> I think you are rather missing the point here. If you are going to
>>>> make a device efficiently, then the last thing you should be doing is
>>>> generating RF with harmonics to infinity. It seemingly is possible to
>>>> make swictch mode devices that do not saturate the ferrite cores of
>>>> the small transformers, and do not produce spikes of crud.Its a trend
>>>> toward cheap and cruddy making of things. Back in the days of 405tv,
>>>> there was uproar when the timebases of the tvs started to interfere
>>>> with long wave radio. In the end most makers of sets started to screen
>>>> the power devices or design them not to radiate and unless you were
>>>> right up close you never heard the whine any more. Of course I guess
>>>> you could say that Long wave was used a lot more in the early days of
>>>> TV, and so there were more people to moan. I'd like to think that if
>>>> a
>>>> job is worth doing its worth doing well, and yet nobody seems to
>>>> think this is what good design is all about. Brian

>>> Good design is to minimise cost andstill stay within the rules of RF
>>> emissions.

>> There are no such rules.

> Maybe not is Auzzie land, but there are in the EU.

Have fun explaining why Brian is bedevilled by all those
steaming turds of switch mode plug packs from china.

> Possibly they still exist in the UK

Have fun explaining why Brian is bedevilled by all those
steaming turds of switch mode plug packs from china.

Fredxx <fredxx@spam.invalid> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Fredxx <fredxx@spam.invalid> wrote
>>> Brian Gaff wrote

>>>> I think you are rather missing the point here. If you are going to
>>>> make a
>>>> device efficiently, then the last thing you should be doing is
>>>> generating RF
>>>> with harmonics to infinity. It seemingly is possible to make swictch
>>>> mode
>>>> devices that do not saturate the ferrite cores of the small
>>>> transformers,
>>>> and do not produce spikes of crud.Its a trend toward cheap and cruddy
>>>> making
>>>> of things. Back in the days of 405tv, there was uproar when the
>>>> timebases of
>>>> the tvs started to interfere with long wave radio. In the end most
>>>> makers of
>>>> sets started to screen the power devices or design them not to
>>>> radiate and
>>>> unless you were right up close you never heard the whine any more.
>>>> Of course I guess you could say that Long wave was used a lot more
>>>> in the
>>>> early days of TV, and so there were more people to moan.
>>>> I'd like to think that if a job is worth doing its worth doing
>>>> well, and
>>>> yet nobody seems to think this is what good design is all about.
>>>> Brian
>>>
>>> Good design is to minimise cost and still stay within the rules of RF
>>> emissions.

>> There are no such rules.

> This is UK.D-I-Y and I can assure you there are in the UK.

Must explain why Brian is bedevilled by all those
steaming turd switch mode chinese plug packs.

Fredxx <fredxx@spam.invalid> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote

>>> I think you are rather missing the point here.

>> Nope.

>>> If you are going to make a device efficiently,then the last thing
>>> you should be doing isgenerating RF with harmonics to infinity.

>> In fact fuck all of the energy produced is wasted in those harmonics.

>> And the alternative approach to a switch mode power
>> suppy or plug pack wastes FAR more in the transformer.

>> AND the designer doesnt actually give a shit about
>> ultimate efficienty anyway, they care about the cost
>> of the components needed to minimise the harmonics.

> Inefficiency creates heat that has it's own issues.

The inefficiency of those harmonics does not produce
enough heat to matter in a chinese switch mode plug
pack and even the best of the switch mode plug packs
still have those harmonics, they are just contained
within the decide much better and so a microscopic
more heat is retained in the devide.

No one is actually stupid enough to produce sine waves
at the frequency required to avoid radiating the harmonics
and doing the would produce MORE heat if they did.

> He does care about efficiency

Not the microscopic lower efficiency that is involved
with the harmonics being discussed and there is no
way to avoid that which doesnt involve far LESS
effiency by say going for a sine wave instead.

> although that may be a secondary consideration over cost.

No may be about it with a switch mode plug pack, fuckwit child.

<reams of your shit any 3 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belngs>

On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 09:09:21 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

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On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 09:15:11 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

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On Mon, 08 Jan 2024 09:25:28 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

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