SWMBO had bought six new rose plants (bare rooted) and has been trying
to plant them near a large silver birch.
She decided where she wanted each one, and started to dig a hole.

Large tree root.
She moved to one side and tried again.
Another tree root and a girt big rock.
Rinse and repeat for some time.

I strongly believe there would be a good market for a hand-held ground
penetrating radar which could identify obstacles like roots or large
rocks _before_ you expend so much energy and backache digging the hole.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 28/01/2024 21:10, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> SWMBO had bought six new rose plants (bare rooted) and has been trying
> to plant them near a large silver birch.
> She decided where she wanted each one, and started to dig a hole.
>
> Large tree root.
> She moved to one side and tried again.
> Another tree root and a girt big rock.
> Rinse and repeat for some time.
>
> I strongly believe there would be a good market for a hand-held ground
> penetrating radar which could identify obstacles like roots or large
> rocks _before_ you expend so much energy and backache digging the hole.
>
>

Amazon do a cheap GPR:

http://tinyurl.com/CheapGPR

However, in this context 'cheap' means under £20k.

--
Colin Bignell

On Mon, 29 Jan 2024 08:10:11 +1100, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

> SWMBO had bought six new rose plants (bare rooted) and has been trying
> to plant them near a large silver birch.
> She decided where she wanted each one, and started to dig a hole.
>
> Large tree root.
> She moved to one side and tried again.
> Another tree root and a girt big rock.
> Rinse and repeat for some time.
>
> I strongly believe there would be a good market for a hand-held ground
> penetrating radar which could identify obstacles like roots or large
> rocks _before_ you expend so much energy and backache digging the hole.

And useful when moving into a new for you place to check
that a serial murderer hasnt buried its corpses there.

Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
> SWMBO had bought six new rose plants (bare rooted) and has been trying
> to plant them near a large silver birch.
> She decided where she wanted each one, and started to dig a hole.
>
> Large tree root.
> She moved to one side and tried again.
> Another tree root and a girt big rock.
> Rinse and repeat for some time.
>
> I strongly believe there would be a good market for a hand-held ground
> penetrating radar which could identify obstacles like roots or large
> rocks _before_ you expend so much energy and backache digging the hole.
>
>

Hmm, I’m no expert on roses but I would have thought that planting them in
rooty soil beneath a large tree is doomed to failure.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On Mon, 29 Jan 2024 08:29:58 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
Xeno to senile Rodent:
"You're a sad old man Rod, truly sad."
MID: <id04c3F50peU1@mid.individual.net>

On 28/01/2024 in message
<512288461.728170313.370185.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net>
Tim+ wrote:

>Hmm, I’m no expert on roses but I would have thought that planting them
>in
>rooty soil beneath a large tree is doomed to failure.

Come on, will keep the wife busy for years pruning and watering :-)

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil but by those who
watch them without doing anything. (Albert Einstein)

On 28-Jan-24 21:33, Tim+ wrote:
> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>> SWMBO had bought six new rose plants (bare rooted) and has been trying
>> to plant them near a large silver birch.
>> She decided where she wanted each one, and started to dig a hole.
>>
>> Large tree root.
>> She moved to one side and tried again.
>> Another tree root and a girt big rock.
>> Rinse and repeat for some time.
>>
>> I strongly believe there would be a good market for a hand-held ground
>> penetrating radar which could identify obstacles like roots or large
>> rocks _before_ you expend so much energy and backache digging the hole.
>>
>>
>
> Hmm, I’m no expert on roses but I would have thought that planting them in
> rooty soil beneath a large tree is doomed to failure.

Silver Birch don't have a dense canopy, so there's plenty of light, and
there are several shrubs already in the area which have done well for a
few decades.
The other factor is that there are a couple of hanging bird feeders in
the area, which provide a steady diet of mulch and feed to the plants below.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 1/28/2024 7:54 PM, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 28-Jan-24 21:33, Tim+ wrote:
>> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>> SWMBO had bought six new rose plants (bare rooted) and has been trying
>>> to plant them near a large silver birch.
>>> She decided where she wanted each one, and started to dig a hole.
>>>
>>> Large tree root.
>>> She moved to one side and tried again.
>>> Another tree root and a girt big rock.
>>> Rinse and repeat for some time.
>>>
>>> I strongly believe there would be a good market for a hand-held ground
>>> penetrating radar which could identify obstacles like roots or large
>>> rocks _before_ you expend so much energy and backache digging the hole.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Hmm, I’m no expert on roses but I would have thought that planting them in
>> rooty soil beneath a large tree is doomed to failure.
>
> Silver Birch don't have a dense canopy, so there's plenty of light, and there are several shrubs already in the area which have done well for a few decades.
> The other factor is that there are a couple of hanging bird feeders in the area, which provide a steady diet of mulch and feed to the plants below.
>

The claim is, you can build your own GPR for €600 , which is
roughly the price of a new hobby.

https://hackaday.com/2019/02/07/ground-penetrating-radar-for-the-masses/

Paul

On 2024-01-28, Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>> SWMBO had bought six new rose plants (bare rooted) and has been trying
>> to plant them near a large silver birch.
>> She decided where she wanted each one, and started to dig a hole.
>>
>> Large tree root.
>> She moved to one side and tried again.
>> Another tree root and a girt big rock.
>> Rinse and repeat for some time.
>>
>> I strongly believe there would be a good market for a hand-held ground
>> penetrating radar which could identify obstacles like roots or large
>> rocks _before_ you expend so much energy and backache digging the hole.
>>
>>
>
> Hmm, I’m no expert on roses but I would have thought that planting them in
> rooty soil beneath a large tree is doomed to failure.
>
> Tim
>
agreed.

--
greymausg@mail.com
Is There not even an .Influencer to impale?
Charles I, beheaded, Charles II, killed by doctors, What is happen to Chuck III?

On 28/01/2024 21:10, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> SWMBO had bought six new rose plants (bare rooted) and has been trying
> to plant them near a large silver birch.
> She decided where she wanted each one, and started to dig a hole.
>
> Large tree root.
> She moved to one side and tried again.
> Another tree root and a girt big rock.
> Rinse and repeat for some time.
>
> I strongly believe there would be a good market for a hand-held ground
> penetrating radar which could identify obstacles like roots or large
> rocks _before_ you expend so much energy and backache digging the hole.
>
>
Interesting project for e.g. a PI.

Having just read up on it, however, it may not be very successful at
determining tree root positions. Especially in wet soils.
--
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
twenty-first century’s developed world went into hysterical panic over a
globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to
contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

On 28/01/2024 21:33, Tim+ wrote:
> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>> SWMBO had bought six new rose plants (bare rooted) and has been trying
>> to plant them near a large silver birch.
>> She decided where she wanted each one, and started to dig a hole.
>>
>> Large tree root.
>> She moved to one side and tried again.
>> Another tree root and a girt big rock.
>> Rinse and repeat for some time.
>>
>> I strongly believe there would be a good market for a hand-held ground
>> penetrating radar which could identify obstacles like roots or large
>> rocks _before_ you expend so much energy and backache digging the hole.
>>
>>
>
> Hmm, I’m no expert on roses but I would have thought that planting them in
> rooty soil beneath a large tree is doomed to failure.
>
Where else would a climbing rose be planted?

> Tim
>

--
There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon
emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent
renewable energy.

On 29 Jan 2024 at 10:19:58 GMT, "The Natural Philosopher"
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 28/01/2024 21:33, Tim+ wrote:
>> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>> SWMBO had bought six new rose plants (bare rooted) and has been trying
>>> to plant them near a large silver birch.
>>> She decided where she wanted each one, and started to dig a hole.
>>>
>>> Large tree root.
>>> She moved to one side and tried again.
>>> Another tree root and a girt big rock.
>>> Rinse and repeat for some time.
>>>
>>> I strongly believe there would be a good market for a hand-held ground
>>> penetrating radar which could identify obstacles like roots or large
>>> rocks _before_ you expend so much energy and backache digging the hole.
>>
>> Hmm, I’m no expert on roses but I would have thought that planting them in
>> rooty soil beneath a large tree is doomed to failure.
>>
> Where else would a climbing rose be planted?

Ours are next to some trellis.

--
The EU Parliament. The only parliament in the world that can neither initiate nor repeal legislation.

Robert Kimbell

On Monday 29 January 2024 at 10:20:03 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> > Hmm, I’m no expert on roses but I would have thought that planting them in
> > rooty soil beneath a large tree is doomed to failure.
> Where else would a climbing rose be planted?

Next to a pergola?

Owain

On Sun, 28 Jan 2024 21:10:11 +0000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

>SWMBO had bought six new rose plants (bare rooted) and has been trying
>to plant them near a large silver birch.
>She decided where she wanted each one, and started to dig a hole.
>
>Large tree root.
>She moved to one side and tried again.
>Another tree root and a girt big rock.
>Rinse and repeat for some time.
>
>I strongly believe there would be a good market for a hand-held ground
>penetrating radar which could identify obstacles like roots or large
>rocks _before_ you expend so much energy and backache digging the hole.

I did wonder about hire but even that is expensive
https://cablelocatorsandsurvey.com/hire-radiodetection-rd1100-gpr-ground-penetrating-radar

On 29-Jan-24 10:30, Tim Streater wrote:
> On 29 Jan 2024 at 10:19:58 GMT, "The Natural Philosopher"
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 28/01/2024 21:33, Tim+ wrote:
>>> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>>> SWMBO had bought six new rose plants (bare rooted) and has been trying
>>>> to plant them near a large silver birch.
>>>> She decided where she wanted each one, and started to dig a hole.
>>>>
>>>> Large tree root.
>>>> She moved to one side and tried again.
>>>> Another tree root and a girt big rock.
>>>> Rinse and repeat for some time.
>>>>
>>>> I strongly believe there would be a good market for a hand-held ground
>>>> penetrating radar which could identify obstacles like roots or large
>>>> rocks _before_ you expend so much energy and backache digging the hole.
>>>
>>> Hmm, I’m no expert on roses but I would have thought that planting them in
>>> rooty soil beneath a large tree is doomed to failure.
>>>
>> Where else would a climbing rose be planted?

Who mentioned climbing roses? (They aren't.)
>
> Ours are next to some trellis.
>
Mrs Trellis? Of North Wales?

--
Sam Plusnet

On 29/01/2024 19:52, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 29-Jan-24 10:30, Tim Streater wrote:
>> On 29 Jan 2024 at 10:19:58 GMT, "The Natural Philosopher"
>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 28/01/2024 21:33, Tim+ wrote:
>>>> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>>>> SWMBO had bought six new rose plants (bare rooted) and has been trying
>>>>> to plant them near a large silver birch.
>>>>> She decided where she wanted each one, and started to dig a hole.
>>>>>
>>>>> Large tree root.
>>>>> She moved to one side and tried again.
>>>>> Another tree root and a girt big rock.
>>>>> Rinse and repeat for some time.
>>>>>
>>>>> I strongly believe there would be a good market for a hand-held ground
>>>>> penetrating radar which could identify obstacles like roots or large
>>>>> rocks _before_ you expend so much energy and backache digging the
>>>>> hole.
>>>>
>>>> Hmm, I’m no expert on roses but I would have thought that planting
>>>> them in
>>>> rooty soil beneath a large tree is doomed to failure.
>>>>
>>> Where else would a climbing rose be planted?
>
> Who mentioned climbing roses? (They aren't.)

I did. All my wild roses live next door to trees, and all my 'tame' ones
are in hedged and treed borders...

--
“Ideas are inherently conservative. They yield not to the attack of
other ideas but to the massive onslaught of circumstance"

- John K Galbraith

Or you could just do what the new service providers did on my road and cut a
groove down the middle cutting off all the tree roots as they went along.

I'm not sure what is involved in these radars. I would imagine that they
must be pretty high powered and the radiation could be dangerous as well.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Sam Plusnet" <not@home.com> wrote in message
news:ToztN.73789$c1y8.19357@fx15.ams1...
> SWMBO had bought six new rose plants (bare rooted) and has been trying to
> plant them near a large silver birch.
> She decided where she wanted each one, and started to dig a hole.
>
> Large tree root.
> She moved to one side and tried again.
> Another tree root and a girt big rock.
> Rinse and repeat for some time.
>
> I strongly believe there would be a good market for a hand-held ground
> penetrating radar which could identify obstacles like roots or large rocks
> _before_ you expend so much energy and backache digging the hole.
>
>
> --
> Sam Plusnet

Would not a simple spike of the depth needed do the same. If it hits
something don't dig there.
Be wary with roses. I have one under an apple tree, it was supposed to be a
standard rose. now its transmogrified into a climber and only flowers at the
top of the apple tree.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message
news:ZnKdnfMzZc9IWCv4nZ2dnZeNn_ednZ2d@giganews.com...
> On 28/01/2024 21:10, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> SWMBO had bought six new rose plants (bare rooted) and has been trying to
>> plant them near a large silver birch.
>> She decided where she wanted each one, and started to dig a hole.
>>
>> Large tree root.
>> She moved to one side and tried again.
>> Another tree root and a girt big rock.
>> Rinse and repeat for some time.
>>
>> I strongly believe there would be a good market for a hand-held ground
>> penetrating radar which could identify obstacles like roots or large
>> rocks _before_ you expend so much energy and backache digging the hole.
>>
>>
>
> Amazon do a cheap GPR:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/CheapGPR
>
> However, in this context 'cheap' means under �20k.
>
> --
> Colin Bignell
>

On 30/01/2024 17:02, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Would not a simple spike of the depth needed do the same. If it hits
> something don't dig there.

Not gadgety enough :-)

> Be wary with roses. I have one under an apple tree, it was supposed to be a
> standard rose. now its transmogrified into a climber and only flowers at the
> top of the apple tree.

When I moved into this house, there was a standard rose bush, which
suddenly decided to throw out a long runner. It now adorns an arch over
a path and much of the hedge on the other side of the arch.

--
Colin Bignell

On 1/30/2024 11:59 AM, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Or you could just do what the new service providers did on my road and cut a
> groove down the middle cutting off all the tree roots as they went along.
>
> I'm not sure what is involved in these radars. I would imagine that they
> must be pretty high powered and the radiation could be dangerous as well.
> Brian
>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-penetrating_radar

"GPR uses high-frequency (usually polarized) radio waves,
usually in the range 10 MHz to 2.6 GHz."

"However, in moist or clay-laden soils and materials with
high electrical conductivity, penetration may be as little
as a few centimetres."

It's a radar, so it works with pulses.

Lower frequency gives greater ground penetration but
reduced resolution (everything looks like a lump).

Paul

On Wednesday 31 January 2024 at 05:59:01 UTC, Paul wrote:
> On 1/30/2024 11:59 AM, Brian Gaff wrote:
> > Or you could just do what the new service providers did on my road and cut a
> > groove down the middle cutting off all the tree roots as they went along.
> >
> > I'm not sure what is involved in these radars. I would imagine that they
> > must be pretty high powered and the radiation could be dangerous as well.
> > Brian
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-penetrating_radar
>
> "GPR uses high-frequency (usually polarized) radio waves,
> usually in the range 10 MHz to 2.6 GHz."
>
> "However, in moist or clay-laden soils and materials with
> high electrical conductivity, penetration may be as little
> as a few centimetres."
>
> It's a radar, so it works with pulses.

Not all radar uses pulses.
The low-cost GPR described in the article you linked near the top of this thread
uses frequency modulated continuous wave instead of pulses.
https://hackaday.com/2019/02/07/ground-penetrating-radar-for-the-masses
John

> Lower frequency gives greater ground penetration but
> reduced resolution (everything looks like a lump).
>
> Paul

On 31/01/2024 05:58, Paul wrote:
> On 1/30/2024 11:59 AM, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> Or you could just do what the new service providers did on my road and cut a
>> groove down the middle cutting off all the tree roots as they went along.
>>
>> I'm not sure what is involved in these radars. I would imagine that they
>> must be pretty high powered and the radiation could be dangerous as well.
>> Brian
>>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-penetrating_radar
>
> "GPR uses high-frequency (usually polarized) radio waves,
> usually in the range 10 MHz to 2.6 GHz."
>
> "However, in moist or clay-laden soils and materials with
> high electrical conductivity, penetration may be as little
> as a few centimetres."
>
> It's a radar, so it works with pulses.

That is not a given

>
> Lower frequency gives greater ground penetration but
> reduced resolution (everything looks like a lump).
>
> Paul

--
There’s a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons
that sound good.

Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)