Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather
By Schmall and Gross, Jan. 17, 2024, New York Times
With Chicago temps sinking below zero, EV charging stations have become scenes of desperation: depleted batteries, confrontational drivers and lines stretching out onto the street.

“When it’s cold like this, cars aren’t functioning well, chargers aren’t functioning well, and people don’t function so well either,” said Javed Spencer, an Uber driver who said he had done little else in the last three days besides charge his rented Chevy Bolt and worry about being stranded with a dead battery — again.

Mr. Spencer, 27, said he set out on Sunday for a charging station with 30 miles left on his battery. Within minutes, the battery was dead. He had to have the car towed to the station.

“When I finally plugged it in, it wasn’t getting any charge,” he said. Recharging the battery, which usually takes Mr. Spencer an hour, took five hours.

With more people owning electric vehicles than ever before, cold snaps this winter have created headaches for electric vehicle owners, as freezing temperatures drain batteries and reduce driving range.

And the problems may persist a little longer. Chicago and other parts of the United States and Canada this week have been stunned by bitterly cold temperatures. On Tuesday, wind chills plummeted near -30 degrees across much of the Chicago area, according to the National Weather Service. Dangerously low temperatures and waves of snow are expected to stick through the end of the week.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/17/business/tesla-charging-chicago-cold-weather.html

On 1/18/2024 1:36 PM, David P wrote:

> “When I finally plugged it in, it wasn’t getting any charge,” he said.
> Recharging the battery, which usually takes Mr. Spencer an hour, took five hours.

Guess who bought a car that has no battery conditioner.

If the article does not mention the model of Edsel
the individual bought, it make it harder to laugh at the twit.

A battery conditioner, heats the battery to the correct
temperature for charging. Charging commences once the
temperature is correct. Virtually all *modern* car companies
have figured this out.

Using the heat pump in the car, running on heat cycle, the
fluid that circulates through the pack is heated, which gives
a nice uniform temperature. The same path through the pack
that implements cooling, is used for the heating fluid cycle.

The heat pump is powered by the charging cable, so even if
the battery was flat, the energy to heat it, comes from the
charger, not from the battery.

On a cold day, you can even program the car (while the charging
cable is still connected), to not only condition the battery
temperature, but also condition the cabin temperature. That
means, at least your drive to work is toasty warm, and only
the afternoon return will be hard on the battery energy.
There will be less range degradation on the trip to work,
with programmed conditioning in the morning.

Cars have features. Who knew.

Paul

On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 14:48:36 -0500, Paul wrote:

....

> On a cold day, you can even program the car (while the charging cable is
> still connected), to not only condition the battery temperature, but
> also condition the cabin temperature. That means, at least your drive to
> work is toasty warm, and only the afternoon return will be hard on the
> battery energy.
> There will be less range degradation on the trip to work,
> with programmed conditioning in the morning.
>
> Cars have features. Who knew.
>
> Paul

One of my favourite features!

Off for work on a freezing dark morning, neighbours scraping their
windscreens, there's my car waiting for me, heat pump whirring,
windscreen clear and nice and warm inside!

nib

David P <imbibe@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather
> By Schmall and Gross, Jan. 17, 2024, New York Times

David, does that echo chamber that passes for your mind have anything
useful to contribute?

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 19:55:21 +0000, nib wrote:

> On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 14:48:36 -0500, Paul wrote:
>
> ...
>
>> On a cold day, you can even program the car (while the charging cable
>> is still connected), to not only condition the battery temperature, but
>> also condition the cabin temperature. That means, at least your drive
>> to work is toasty warm, and only the afternoon return will be hard on
>> the battery energy.
>> There will be less range degradation on the trip to work,
>> with programmed conditioning in the morning.
>>
>> Cars have features. Who knew.
>>
>> Paul
>
> One of my favourite features!
>
> Off for work on a freezing dark morning, neighbours scraping their
> windscreens, there's my car waiting for me, heat pump whirring,
> windscreen clear and nice and warm inside!
>
> nib

I used to do that with my G-Wagon GDS diesel, start it and then go and
have breakfast.

On 18/01/2024 22:37, Tim+ wrote:
> David P <imbibe@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather
>> By Schmall and Gross, Jan. 17, 2024, New York Times
>
> David, does that echo chamber that passes for your mind have anything
> useful to contribute?
>
> Tim
>

+1

On 19/01/2024 07:36, Smolley wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 19:55:21 +0000, nib wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 14:48:36 -0500, Paul wrote:
>>
>> ...
>>
>>> On a cold day, you can even program the car (while the charging cable
>>> is still connected), to not only condition the battery temperature, but
>>> also condition the cabin temperature. That means, at least your drive
>>> to work is toasty warm, and only the afternoon return will be hard on
>>> the battery energy.
>>> There will be less range degradation on the trip to work,
>>> with programmed conditioning in the morning.
>>>
>>> Cars have features. Who knew.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>
>> One of my favourite features!
>>
>> Off for work on a freezing dark morning, neighbours scraping their
>> windscreens, there's my car waiting for me, heat pump whirring,
>> windscreen clear and nice and warm inside!
>>
>> nib
>
> I used to do that with my G-Wagon GDS diesel, start it and then go and
> have breakfast.

But with the electric car, you don't even have to start it, just
remotely set the aircon going or pre-set it on the charge app - and it
runs off the charger for 10 minutes.

In the morning, I come out of the bathroom, start the aircon, have a
glass of milk, put my stuff in my bag and everything is ready to set off.

On Friday, January 19, 2024 at 7:36:53 AM UTC, Smolley wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 19:55:21 +0000, nib wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 14:48:36 -0500, Paul wrote:
> >
> > ...
> >
> >> On a cold day, you can even program the car (while the charging cable
> >> is still connected), to not only condition the battery temperature, but
> >> also condition the cabin temperature. That means, at least your drive
> >> to work is toasty warm, and only the afternoon return will be hard on
> >> the battery energy.
> >> There will be less range degradation on the trip to work,
> >> with programmed conditioning in the morning.
> >>
> >> Cars have features. Who knew.
> >>
> >> Paul
> >
> > One of my favourite features!
> >
> > Off for work on a freezing dark morning, neighbours scraping their
> > windscreens, there's my car waiting for me, heat pump whirring,
> > windscreen clear and nice and warm inside!
> >
> > nib
> I used to do that with my G-Wagon GDS diesel, start it and then go and
> have breakfast.

I am able to use a BMW app to remotely start the heating. This worked fine wih the i3 when I could have it start immediately but with the current version on my X5 Hybrid I have to selct a departure time one day in advance. p.I.T.A.

Yes, I am given to understand that the US is going through a cold snap where
it normally would not get one, and the shortcomings in charger design are
showing up since the chargers normally never have to use the extra current
to get them warm.

I also noticed that The operators of the bus that caught fire the other day
have stopped using them pending safety checks on the fleet. This no doubt
has meant a shortage of electric busses in many areas. The fire occurred at
Hammersmith.
You would think that a bus which has to transport passengers should not
have any way that it could catch fire though, would you not.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Paul" <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote in message
news:uobvak$2no8i$1@dont-email.me...
> On 1/18/2024 1:36 PM, David P wrote:
>
>> "When I finally plugged it in, it wasn't getting any charge," he said.
>> Recharging the battery, which usually takes Mr. Spencer an hour, took
>> five hours.
>
> Guess who bought a car that has no battery conditioner.
>
> If the article does not mention the model of Edsel
> the individual bought, it make it harder to laugh at the twit.
>
> A battery conditioner, heats the battery to the correct
> temperature for charging. Charging commences once the
> temperature is correct. Virtually all *modern* car companies
> have figured this out.
>
> Using the heat pump in the car, running on heat cycle, the
> fluid that circulates through the pack is heated, which gives
> a nice uniform temperature. The same path through the pack
> that implements cooling, is used for the heating fluid cycle.
>
> The heat pump is powered by the charging cable, so even if
> the battery was flat, the energy to heat it, comes from the
> charger, not from the battery.
>
> On a cold day, you can even program the car (while the charging
> cable is still connected), to not only condition the battery
> temperature, but also condition the cabin temperature. That
> means, at least your drive to work is toasty warm, and only
> the afternoon return will be hard on the battery energy.
> There will be less range degradation on the trip to work,
> with programmed conditioning in the morning.
>
> Cars have features. Who knew.
>
> Paul
>
>

On 19/01/2024 10:51, fred wrote:
> On Friday, January 19, 2024 at 7:36:53 AM UTC, Smolley wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 19:55:21 +0000, nib wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 14:48:36 -0500, Paul wrote:
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> On a cold day, you can even program the car (while the charging cable
>>>> is still connected), to not only condition the battery temperature, but
>>>> also condition the cabin temperature. That means, at least your drive
>>>> to work is toasty warm, and only the afternoon return will be hard on
>>>> the battery energy.
>>>> There will be less range degradation on the trip to work,
>>>> with programmed conditioning in the morning.
>>>>
>>>> Cars have features. Who knew.
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>
>>> One of my favourite features!
>>>
>>> Off for work on a freezing dark morning, neighbours scraping their
>>> windscreens, there's my car waiting for me, heat pump whirring,
>>> windscreen clear and nice and warm inside!
>>>
>>> nib
>> I used to do that with my G-Wagon GDS diesel, start it and then go and
>> have breakfast.
>
> I am able to use a BMW app to remotely start the heating. This worked fine wih the i3 when I could have it start immediately but with the current version on my X5 Hybrid I have to selct a departure time one day in advance. p.I.T.A.

I can set the departure time and select pre-heat, in the charging app,
but I can also simply switch the pre-heat on from the car's own mobile
app, giving me more flexibility - I tend do that instead, as I come out
of the bathroom in the morning and it's ready by the time I'm ready to go.

On 19/01/2024 10:54, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Yes, I am given to understand that the US is going through a cold snap where
> it normally would not get one, and the shortcomings in charger design are
> showing up since the chargers normally never have to use the extra current
> to get them warm.
>
> I also noticed that The operators of the bus that caught fire the other day
> have stopped using them pending safety checks on the fleet. This no doubt
> has meant a shortage of electric busses in many areas. The fire occurred at
> Hammersmith.
> You would think that a bus which has to transport passengers should not
> have any way that it could catch fire though, would you not.
> Brian
>

The chassis with all the batteries and control gubbins come
from China Brian. The coachbuilding is done in the UK or
somewhere close.

On Fri, 19 Jan 2024 21:54:21 +1100, Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Yes, I am given to understand that the US is going through a cold snap
> where
> it normally would not get one, and the shortcomings in charger design are
> showing up since the chargers normally never have to use the extra
> current
> to get them warm.
>
> I also noticed that The operators of the bus that caught fire the other
> day
> have stopped using them pending safety checks on the fleet. This no doubt
> has meant a shortage of electric busses in many areas. The fire occurred
> at
> Hammersmith.
> You would think that a bus which has to transport passengers should not
> have any way that it could catch fire though, would you not.

There have been ICE buses that have caught fire. That is unavoidable
given the very flammable fuel they have to carry with them.

On Sat, 20 Jan 2024 05:28:46 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

--
pamela about Rodent Speed:
"His off the cuff expertise demonstrates how little he knows..."
MID: <XnsA90B720A381A2D4AM2@81.171.92.183>

On 1/18/2024 6:36 PM, David P wrote:
> Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather
> By Schmall and Gross, Jan. 17, 2024, New York Times
> With Chicago temps sinking below zero, EV charging stations have become scenes of desperation: depleted batteries, confrontational drivers and lines stretching out onto the street.
>
> “When it’s cold like this, cars aren’t functioning well, chargers aren’t functioning well, and people don’t function so well either,” said Javed Spencer, an Uber driver who said he had done little else in the last three days besides charge his rented Chevy Bolt and worry about being stranded with a dead battery — again.
>
> Mr. Spencer, 27, said he set out on Sunday for a charging station with 30 miles left on his battery. Within minutes, the battery was dead. He had to have the car towed to the station.
>
> “When I finally plugged it in, it wasn’t getting any charge,” he said. Recharging the battery, which usually takes Mr. Spencer an hour, took five hours.
>
> With more people owning electric vehicles than ever before, cold snaps this winter have created headaches for electric vehicle owners, as freezing temperatures drain batteries and reduce driving range.
>
> And the problems may persist a little longer. Chicago and other parts of the United States and Canada this week have been stunned by bitterly cold temperatures. On Tuesday, wind chills plummeted near -30 degrees across much of the Chicago area, according to the National Weather Service. Dangerously low temperatures and waves of snow are expected to stick through the end of the week.
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/17/business/tesla-charging-chicago-cold-weather.html
hahahahaahah

On 21/01/2024 15:26, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:
> On 1/18/2024 6:36 PM, David P wrote:
>> Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather
>> By Schmall and Gross, Jan. 17, 2024, New York Times
>> With Chicago temps sinking below zero, EV charging stations have
>> become scenes of desperation: depleted batteries, confrontational
>> drivers and lines stretching out onto the street.
>>
>> “When it’s cold like this, cars aren’t functioning well, chargers
>> aren’t functioning well, and people don’t function so well either,”
>> said Javed Spencer, an Uber driver who said he had done little else in
>> the last three days besides charge his rented Chevy Bolt and worry
>> about being stranded with a dead battery — again.
>>
>> Mr. Spencer, 27, said he set out on Sunday for a charging station with
>> 30 miles left on his battery. Within minutes, the battery was dead. He
>> had to have the car towed to the station.
>>
>> “When I finally plugged it in, it wasn’t getting any charge,” he said.
>> Recharging the battery, which usually takes Mr. Spencer an hour, took
>> five hours.
>>
>> With more people owning electric vehicles than ever before, cold snaps
>> this winter have created headaches for electric vehicle owners, as
>> freezing temperatures drain batteries and reduce driving range.
>>
>> And the problems may persist a little longer. Chicago and other parts
>> of the United States and Canada this week have been stunned by
>> bitterly cold temperatures. On Tuesday, wind chills plummeted near -30
>> degrees across much of the Chicago area, according to the National
>> Weather Service. Dangerously low temperatures and waves of snow are
>> expected to stick through the end of the week.
>>
>> https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/17/business/tesla-charging-chicago-cold-weather.html
> hahahahaahah

On Todays BBC1 Bargain Hunt, one of the 'star purchases' made by
the expert was a Mustang Grill complete with pony and headlights.

He paid £40 for it and it sold for £55 at auction, maybe to
someone who wanted to adorn his man cave.

On 1/19/2024 5:54 AM, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Yes, I am given to understand that the US is going through a cold snap where
> it normally would not get one, and the shortcomings in charger design are
> showing up since the chargers normally never have to use the extra current
> to get them warm.
>
> I also noticed that The operators of the bus that caught fire the other day
> have stopped using them pending safety checks on the fleet. This no doubt
> has meant a shortage of electric busses in many areas. The fire occurred at
> Hammersmith.
> You would think that a bus which has to transport passengers should not
> have any way that it could catch fire though, would you not.
> Brian
>

"Switch presented the findings of its investigation to TfL on the morning of
May 25, where TfL accepted the evidence that a conductive coolant was
inadvertently added to the battery coolant system that was only designed
to be used with a non-conductive substance."

Aha! Rocket scientists :-)

That's the best way to train people, is one burned-bus at a time.

Paul

On 1/21/2024 10:26 AM, Jim GM4DHJ ... wrote:

> hahahahaahah

So what kind of electric golf cart will you be buying ?

https://youtu.be/c8UXIeBffbQ

The one on the right, doesn't have a seat heater.

Paul