https://www.wionews.com/world/israel-revises-estimate-of-october-7-hamas-attack-death-toll-from-1400-to-around-1200-657459

<quote>

Israel revises estimate of October 7 Hamas attack death toll from 1400 to 'around 1200'

</quote>

Under pressure to tell the truth, reconcile those reported dead and missing against the inflated number, it appears Israel had little choice but to come clean or keep on lying.

The excuse that they had somehow counted Hamas bodies amongst the charred remains is pretty desperate considering most got away and those who didn't were shot.

So, if Israel exaggerated the number of Israelis murdered on 7th October - What else are they lying about ?

In article <20231110223053.00006cc0@ntlworld.invalid>,
The Happy Hippy <the.happy.hippy.nntp@ntlworld.invalid> wrote:

[...]

> The excuse that they had somehow counted Hamas bodies amongst the charred
> remains is pretty desperate considering most got away and those who didn't
> were shot.

Oh wait, you were there, huh?

I could not find "charred remains", the link mentions "corpses that were not
identified". Considering the heavy firepower used by the IDF, why is this
unreasonable? You say "shot", but many were killed by tank shells and esp.
aerial bombardments, when they were trying to flee back to Gaza.

> So, if Israel exaggerated the number of Israelis murdered on 7th October -
> What else are they lying about ?

But they came clean, admitted they were wrong.

The Hamas OTOH, inflated the hospital deaths by a factor of 5 to 10,
and claims the Holocaust is a hoax. Who's more reliable, then?

On Fri, 10 Nov 2023 22:30:53 +0000, The Happy Hippy wrote:

> https://www.wionews.com/world/israel-revises-estimate-of-october-7-hamas-
attack-death-toll-from-1400-to-around-1200-657459
>
> <quote>
>
> Israel revises estimate of October 7 Hamas attack death toll from 1400
> to 'around 1200'
>
> </quote>
>
> Under pressure to tell the truth, reconcile those reported dead and
> missing against the inflated number, it appears Israel had little choice
> but to come clean or keep on lying.
>
> The excuse that they had somehow counted Hamas bodies amongst the
> charred remains is pretty desperate considering most got away and those
> who didn't were shot.
>
> So, if Israel exaggerated the number of Israelis murdered on 7th October
> - What else are they lying about ?

That kind of thing happens. Dead people get counted twice, people turn up
alive... There's still a pile of bodies and bodycam footage of the attack
though. We know hostages were taken. I think it's near certain that
Israel was attacked and pretty savagely. The only question is at what
point are the victims going to become the perpetrators? There has to be a
number - certainly for the rest of the world.

In article <QFy3N.3751$cBSb.2594@fx15.ams1>,
TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com> wrote:

> That kind of thing happens. Dead people get counted twice, people turn up
> alive... There's still a pile of bodies and bodycam footage of the attack
> though. We know hostages were taken. I think it's near certain that
> Israel was attacked and pretty savagely. The only question is at what
> point are the victims going to become the perpetrators? There has to be a
> number - certainly for the rest of the world.

Fair point generally, alas more complicated when fighting an organization
like Hamas. The Allies understood it in WW2.

I tried to reply to this in my previous post, citing _The Economist_
article. If the Hamas is not destroyed, this will just happen again
and again, possibly on a much larger scale, if Hezbollah (and God
knows who else) will join.

On Fri, 10 Nov 2023 23:04:16 GMT
TWP <ngspammersad@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 10 Nov 2023 22:30:53 +0000, The Happy Hippy wrote:
>
> > https://www.wionews.com/world/israel-revises-estimate-of-october-7-hamas-
> >
> attack-death-toll-from-1400-to-around-1200-657459
> >
> > <quote>
> >
> > Israel revises estimate of October 7 Hamas attack death toll from
> > 1400 to 'around 1200'
> >
> > </quote>
> >
> > Under pressure to tell the truth, reconcile those reported dead and
> > missing against the inflated number, it appears Israel had little
> > choice but to come clean or keep on lying.
> >
> > The excuse that they had somehow counted Hamas bodies amongst the
> > charred remains is pretty desperate considering most got away and
> > those who didn't were shot.
> >
> > So, if Israel exaggerated the number of Israelis murdered on 7th
> > October
> > - What else are they lying about ?
>
>
> That kind of thing happens. Dead people get counted twice, people
> turn up alive... There's still a pile of bodies and bodycam footage
> of the attack though. We know hostages were taken. I think it's
> near certain that Israel was attacked and pretty savagely.

No one denies that Hamas's attack killed people and that they took hostages.

The problem is there has been a pattern of exaggeration. More claimed killed than were killed, the 9-11 equivalency being over-stated, people declared to have been murdered believed to now be alive.

The scale of the attack is being used to justify the scale of the response but that doesn't necessarily hold true if the scale is less than claimed.

It also brings into question Israel's other claims.

There have been other claims presented as truth by Israel for which there has been no evidence presented. Particularly the beheading of babies claim. Biden said he had seen verifiable evidence of that but then had to admit that was a lie.

> The only
> question is at what point are the victims going to become the
> perpetrators? There has to be a number - certainly for the rest of
> the world.

Indeed. Many believe Israel has gone too far already.

Whatever the number it will always rest upon proportionality and therefore telling the truth is fundamental. It appears Israel has exaggerated the numbers to justify their response.

But it's not just numbers. Does Hamas having the alleged capability to operate from basements below hospitals and schools justify the murder of thousands of innocent people to end that alleged capability, even if Hamas aren't using such capability at the time, when there is little evidence of such a capability in the first place ?

Israel has decided that, because Hamas once used an ambulance for their terrorist purposes, that all ambulances and everyone in them are now legitimate targets.

They have decided that, because they allege Hamas has the capability of using a hospital or school for operations, that gives them the right to destroy all hospitals and schools and all the innocent people in them.

Israel is prepared to slaughter however many hundreds of thousands of innocent people it takes to deny Hamas the future use of their alleged operational infrastructure.

That's not in compliance with International Law, the Rules of War, nor what most people would consider legitimate.

If Hamas have placed a terrorist cell in your neighbour's house, Israel claims that gives them the right to murder you, your family, and all those in your neighbourhood.

The UK and US governments say that's fine, that there's nothing wrong with such collective punishment murders, but most people don't agree.

The worst part is, if we tolerate and legitimise Israel doing that, we are legitimising everyone doing that, including terrorists when they mass murder innocent people.

Of course, we will still have hypocrisy to fall back on, but we will have done that.

The Hopeless Hippycrit wrote:

> There have been other claims presented as truth by Israel for which there has been no evidence presented. Particularly the beheading of babies claim.

Would it really matter one fuck to you if they did ?
Probably don't want to openly post pics of the most gruesome hamas
atrocities so that sick people like you don't nut over it.

> Biden said he had seen verifiable evidence of that but then had to admit that was a lie.

Correction - Xiden had another senile moment, and his handlers were
forced to walk back his meanderings, as usual. He himself admitted
NOTHING, as usual.

Here, and from a source much to your liking

White House walks back Biden’s claim he saw children beheaded by Hamas

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/12/white-house-walks-back-bidens-claim-he-saw-children-beheaded-by-hamas

--
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for
light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter.