I had backed up a lot of stuff to an external usb Hard Disk Drive. It
conked out one day.

I saw there was some common fault with the arm not returning or
something so I opened it up to have a look. It didn't help. Would it be
possible to disassemble the unit a bit more, transfer the disk itself to
another chassis and hope to read the disk?

Obv I am too mean to send it off for repair.

TW

TimW <timw@nomailta.co.uk> writes:

> I had backed up a lot of stuff to an external usb Hard Disk Drive. It
> conked out one day.
>
> I saw there was some common fault with the arm not returning or
> something so I opened it up to have a look. It didn't help. Would it
> be possible to disassemble the unit a bit more, transfer the disk
> itself to another chassis and hope to read the disk?

If you have exposed the platter(s) to air, you've already trashed it.
The heads fly at a height measured in single digit nanometers. A
fingerprint or smoke particle, never mind the far bigger dust which will
have settled on it will be enough to wreck it. Hitting any contamination
will score the magnetic coating.

Discs can only be opened up safely in a clean room.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_height

https://www.gillware.com/hard-drive-data-recovery/data-recovery-101-burnishing-platters/

--
Alan J. Wylie https://www.wylie.me.uk/
Dance like no-one's watching. / Encrypt like everyone is.
Security is inversely proportional to convenience

On Mon, 12 Feb 2024 11:18:45 +0000, TimW <timw@nomailta.co.uk> wrote:

>I had backed up a lot of stuff to an external usb Hard Disk Drive. It
>conked out one day.
>
>I saw there was some common fault with the arm not returning or
>something so I opened it up to have a look. It didn't help. Would it be
>possible to disassemble the unit a bit more, transfer the disk itself to
>another chassis and hope to read the disk?
>
>Obv I am too mean to send it off for repair.
>
>TW

Did you open the USB case, and found a sealed HDD unit in it? Putting the sealed
HDD unit in another caddy might work, to see if it's the caddy that's gone --
so: worth a try.

Or the HDD itself? Removing the platters/discs from one HDD and swapping to
another is not going to work.

Thomas Prufer

TimW <timw@nomailta.co.uk> wrote:
> I had backed up a lot of stuff to an external usb Hard Disk Drive. It
> conked out one day.
>
> I saw there was some common fault with the arm not returning or
> something so I opened it up to have a look. It didn't help. Would it be
> possible to disassemble the unit a bit more, transfer the disk itself to
> another chassis and hope to read the disk?
>
> Obv I am too mean to send it off for repair.

Once you've taken the lid off the mechanism the drive is toast - dust has
got in and will disturb the heads, which fly about 5 nanometres above the
surface.

Even if you had a clean room, the drives are commissioned based on the way
the heads and platters are screwed in: in the factory they spin up the disc
and write the servo information using that specific position of the heads to
the platters. If the platters are installed slightly off-centre, the tracks
will be off-centre to compensate.

You need to get this right to nanometre precision. Unless you are in
possession of a magnetic force microscope that can read the data and
micro-align the platters into a new chassis, plus transplant the calibration
data stored on the old PCB, it's not happening.

HDD are perhaps the most intricate micro-mechanical system that humanity has
made, and that you can buy them for a few quid is astonishing.

Theo

On 12/02/2024 11:33, Alan J. Wylie wrote:
> TimW <timw@nomailta.co.uk> writes:
>
>> I had backed up a lot of stuff to an external usb Hard Disk Drive. It
>> conked out one day.
>>
>> I saw there was some common fault with the arm not returning or
>> something so I opened it up to have a look. It didn't help. Would it
>> be possible to disassemble the unit a bit more, transfer the disk
>> itself to another chassis and hope to read the disk?
>
> If you have exposed the platter(s) to air, you've already trashed it.
> The heads fly at a height measured in single digit nanometers. A
> fingerprint or smoke particle, never mind the far bigger dust which will
> have settled on it will be enough to wreck it. Hitting any contamination
> will score the magnetic coating.
>
> Discs can only be opened up safely in a clean room.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_height
>
> https://www.gillware.com/hard-drive-data-recovery/data-recovery-101-burnishing-platters/
>

I did this:
https://youtu.be/zAMjdrUf9V4?si=aGq_sofyRCzgRgy0&t=84
but that wasn't the problem.

He doesn't say 'do this and you will instantly trash your disk', so one
of you is wrong.

TW

In a word, no, its probably buggered and if you let muck in by taking it
apart it would not help. Most of these are mapped by software and take into
account the individual drive its mounted on, so the chances are it will be
misaligned unless its very old big drive. Have you thought of cloud storage,
although it costs money with a fast internet its like having an off site
back up. Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"TimW" <timw@nomailta.co.uk> wrote in message
news:uqcuqm$1fh2i$1@dont-email.me...
>I had backed up a lot of stuff to an external usb Hard Disk Drive. It
>conked out one day.
>
> I saw there was some common fault with the arm not returning or something
> so I opened it up to have a look. It didn't help. Would it be possible to
> disassemble the unit a bit more, transfer the disk itself to another
> chassis and hope to read the disk?
>
> Obv I am too mean to send it off for repair.
>
> TW

Its all down to probabilities basically. At any rate you must expect some
corruption and sometimes disc makers do have tools that run low level to
remap the existing data onto another similar one. How successful that is
depends on the fault.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"TimW" <timw@nomailta.co.uk> wrote in message
news:uqd0gm$1fnrl$1@dont-email.me...
> On 12/02/2024 11:33, Alan J. Wylie wrote:
>> TimW <timw@nomailta.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>> I had backed up a lot of stuff to an external usb Hard Disk Drive. It
>>> conked out one day.
>>>
>>> I saw there was some common fault with the arm not returning or
>>> something so I opened it up to have a look. It didn't help. Would it
>>> be possible to disassemble the unit a bit more, transfer the disk
>>> itself to another chassis and hope to read the disk?
>>
>> If you have exposed the platter(s) to air, you've already trashed it.
>> The heads fly at a height measured in single digit nanometers. A
>> fingerprint or smoke particle, never mind the far bigger dust which will
>> have settled on it will be enough to wreck it. Hitting any contamination
>> will score the magnetic coating.
>>
>> Discs can only be opened up safely in a clean room.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_height
>>
>> https://www.gillware.com/hard-drive-data-recovery/data-recovery-101-burnishing-platters/
>>
>
> I did this:
> https://youtu.be/zAMjdrUf9V4?si=aGq_sofyRCzgRgy0&t=84
> but that wasn't the problem.
>
> He doesn't say 'do this and you will instantly trash your disk', so one of
> you is wrong.
>
> TW

TimW <timw@nomailta.co.uk> wrote:
> I did this:
> https://youtu.be/zAMjdrUf9V4?si=aGq_sofyRCzgRgy0&t=84
> but that wasn't the problem.
>
> He doesn't say 'do this and you will instantly trash your disk', so one
> of you is wrong.

Once upon a time I took the lid off an 80MB HDD. It continued booting
Windows 3.1 for two weeks, until it collected enough dust that it died.

Obviously things have moved on a long way since then. Data has got a
lot lot smaller (now 20TB per drive not 80MB, a factor of 250,000).

So any tricks like this (also putting it in the freezer) are just the last
recourse of the desperate. If the drive is borked and you can't afford to
pay for recovery, what do you have to lose?

So you take the gamble. Who knows what the odds are in your particular
case, there are too many variables. Worse than my 80MB drive is all I
can say.

But once you've lost the bet there's nothing more to be done.

Theo

On 12/02/2024 11:18, TimW wrote:
> I had backed up a lot of stuff to an external usb Hard Disk Drive. It
> conked out one day.
>
> I saw there was some common fault with the arm not returning or
> something so I opened it up to have a look. It didn't help. Would it be
> possible to disassemble the unit a bit more, transfer the disk itself to
> another chassis and hope to read the disk?
>
> Obv I am too mean to send it off for repair.
>
> TW
If the data is important then put the cover back on and send the drive
to a data recovery company. Tell them what you've done and don't make
things worse than they already are by doing any more fiddling. This
problem isn't suitable for a DIY approach.

On 12/02/2024 11:18, TimW wrote:
> I had backed up a lot of stuff to an external usb Hard Disk Drive. It
> conked out one day.
>
> I saw there was some common fault with the arm not returning or
> something so I opened it up to have a look. It didn't help. Would it be
> possible to disassemble the unit a bit more, transfer the disk itself to
> another chassis and hope to read the disk?

Yes, in theory.... how brave are you feeling:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9P4UadRdNA

(note requirement for things like laminar air flow fume cabinet!)

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 12/02/2024 11:18, TimW wrote:
> I had backed up a lot of stuff to an external usb Hard Disk Drive. It
> conked out one day.
>
> I saw there was some common fault with the arm not returning or
> something so I opened it up to have a look. It didn't help. Would it be
> possible to disassemble the unit a bit more, transfer the disk itself to
> another chassis and hope to read the disk?
>
> Obv I am too mean to send it off for repair.

Before delving in and mechanically dismantling anything, I would get a
S/H drive of the same model, and transfer all the electronics and
circuit boards onto yours.

On 12/02/2024 in message <uqd8hh$1i3s8$1@dont-email.me> Fredxx wrote:

>On 12/02/2024 11:18, TimW wrote:
>>I had backed up a lot of stuff to an external usb Hard Disk Drive. It
>>conked out one day.
>>
>>I saw there was some common fault with the arm not returning or something
>>so I opened it up to have a look. It didn't help. Would it be possible to
>>disassemble the unit a bit more, transfer the disk itself to another
>>chassis and hope to read the disk?
>>
>>Obv I am too mean to send it off for repair.
>
>Before delving in and mechanically dismantling anything, I would get a S/H
>drive of the same model, and transfer all the electronics and circuit
>boards onto yours.

Absolutely, that's what Odie Ferrous used to do, would often see pleas
from him for specific circuit boards. Sadly I don't think he is still with
us.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
I've been through the desert on a horse with no name.
It was a right bugger to get him back when he ran off.

TimW wrote:

> I saw there was some common fault with the arm not returning or
> something so I opened it up to have a look. It didn't help.

You've likely put the nails in its coffin by opening it and trying to
move the heads.

On 2024-02-12, Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
> On 12/02/2024 in message <uqd8hh$1i3s8$1@dont-email.me> Fredxx wrote:
>
>>On 12/02/2024 11:18, TimW wrote:
>>>I had backed up a lot of stuff to an external usb Hard Disk Drive. It
>>>conked out one day.
>>>
>>>I saw there was some common fault with the arm not returning or something
>>>so I opened it up to have a look. It didn't help. Would it be possible to
>>>disassemble the unit a bit more, transfer the disk itself to another
>>>chassis and hope to read the disk?
>>>
>>>Obv I am too mean to send it off for repair.
>>
>>Before delving in and mechanically dismantling anything, I would get a S/H
>>drive of the same model, and transfer all the electronics and circuit
>>boards onto yours.
>
> Absolutely, that's what Odie Ferrous used to do, would often see pleas
> from him for specific circuit boards. Sadly I don't think he is still with
> us.
>

NSA, Fort Meade, Maryland, and a note that there are intimate jpg's on
it. Course, you will never get it back. Old HDs have good magnets on
them.

--
greymausg@mail.com
Is There not even one Influencer here to torment?

On Mon, 12 Feb 2024 22:18:45 +1100, TimW <timw@nomailta.co.uk> wrote:

> I had backed up a lot of stuff to an external usb Hard Disk Drive. It
> conked out one day.
>
> I saw there was some common fault with the arm not returning or
> something so I opened it up to have a look. It didn't help. Would it be
> possible to disassemble the unit a bit more, transfer the disk itself to
> another chassis and hope to read the disk?

Nope.

> Obv I am too mean to send it off for repair.

No one repairs them anyway unless its something very
basic like a cracked trace etc.

Did it spin up before you opened it ?

> TW

On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 04:08:27 +1100, ken, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>

On 12/02/2024 13:28, nothanks@aolbin.com wrote:
> On 12/02/2024 11:18, TimW wrote:
>> I had backed up a lot of stuff to an external usb Hard Disk Drive. It
>> conked out one day.
>>
>> I saw there was some common fault with the arm not returning or
>> something so I opened it up to have a look. It didn't help. Would it
>> be possible to disassemble the unit a bit more, transfer the disk
>> itself to another chassis and hope to read the disk?
>>
>> Obv I am too mean to send it off for repair.
>>
>> TW
> If the data is important then put the cover back on and send the drive
> to a data recovery company. Tell them what you've done and don't make
> things worse than they already are by doing any more fiddling. This
> problem isn't suitable for a DIY approach.

+1.
The only successful data recovery I ever did was on an old HDD drive
that simply wouldn't do anything, where I swapped the driver board with
an identical unit.
We got the data off and scrapped the drive

--
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
twenty-first century’s developed world went into hysterical panic over a
globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to
contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

On 12/02/2024 19:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 12/02/2024 13:28, nothanks@aolbin.com wrote:
>> On 12/02/2024 11:18, TimW wrote:
>>> I had backed up a lot of stuff to an external usb Hard Disk Drive. It
>>> conked out one day.
>>>
>>> I saw there was some common fault with the arm not returning or
>>> something so I opened it up to have a look. It didn't help. Would it
>>> be possible to disassemble the unit a bit more, transfer the disk
>>> itself to another chassis and hope to read the disk?
>>>
>>> Obv I am too mean to send it off for repair.
>>>
>>> TW
>> If the data is important then put the cover back on and send the drive
>> to a data recovery company. Tell them what you've done and don't make
>> things worse than they already are by doing any more fiddling. This
>> problem isn't suitable for a DIY approach.
>
> +1.
> The only successful data recovery I ever did was on an old HDD drive
> that simply wouldn't do anything, where I swapped the driver board with
> an identical unit.
> We got the data off and scrapped the drive

The tolerances are probably far too tight these days, but in the past,
spraying a mist of water to take the dust out of the air; opening the
case; and freeing up the mechanism would sometimes give a few hours of
operation to retrive data.

John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote in
news:uqd7jd$1hpan$1@dont-email.me:

> On 12/02/2024 11:18, TimW wrote:
>> I had backed up a lot of stuff to an external usb Hard Disk Drive. It
>> conked out one day.
>>
>> I saw there was some common fault with the arm not returning or
>> something so I opened it up to have a look. It didn't help. Would it
>> be possible to disassemble the unit a bit more, transfer the disk
>> itself to another chassis and hope to read the disk?
>
> Yes, in theory.... how brave are you feeling:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9P4UadRdNA
>
> (note requirement for things like laminar air flow fume cabinet!)
>

Loved it! Huge emphasis on the laminar flow bench then transferred the
drive to it from a filthy workbench with previously used gloves covered in
particles. No attempt to blow dust off the drive outer before opening.
Particle dropped onto the top platter in short order later blown off with
canned air. Hmmmn, think they got lucky and reminded myself to have
multiple backups in the hope of avoiding a situation like this.

On 2/12/2024 2:31 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 12/02/2024 13:28, nothanks@aolbin.com wrote:
>> On 12/02/2024 11:18, TimW wrote:
>>> I had backed up a lot of stuff to an external usb Hard Disk Drive. It conked out one day.
>>>
>>> I saw there was some common fault with the arm not returning or something so I opened it up to have a look. It didn't help. Would it be possible to disassemble the unit a bit more, transfer the disk itself to another chassis and hope to read the disk?
>>>
>>> Obv I am too mean to send it off for repair.
>>>
>>> TW
>> If the data is important then put the cover back on and send the drive to a data recovery company. Tell them what you've done and don't make things worse than they already are by doing any more fiddling. This problem isn't suitable for a DIY approach.
>
> +1.
> The only successful data recovery I ever did was on an old HDD drive that simply wouldn't do anything, where I swapped the driver board with an identical unit.
> We got the data off and scrapped the drive
>

One thing to note today, when you swap controller boards, you
now have to swap the EEPROM on the board. There are several
EEPROMS, and one of them presumably contains the FDE keys.
And that has to be transferred, so the drive can read the
data to your satisfaction.

It's true, that for older drives, the swap is not required,
because the drive is less sophisticated. And the word
"encryption" had not been invented yet.

There was a press release years ago, promising that all drives
of a certain date, would be FDE-equipped. Then... nothing happened.
But the EEPROM issue, is a side effect of "the things we don't know".
Just because they didn't have a launch party for their new toy,
does not mean it is not at work in there.

If a controller board swap does not work for you, that could be
the reason.

Paul

On 12/02/2024 11:18, TimW wrote:
> I saw there was some common fault with the arm not returning or
> something so I opened it up to have a look. It didn't help. Would it be
> possible to disassemble the unit a bit more, transfer the disk itself to
> another chassis and hope to read the disk?

Back in the 100Mb HDD days - I've opened up drives, and resealed them,
without a problem. I've had drives which failed to spin up from cold,
due to striction, spinning the whole drive can get them to start. I have
also successfully swapped PCB's from one drive to another. Swapping
disk platters is simply never going to work.