Someone has given me a handheld hoover to look at. It is a HoLIFE
HLHM036ADUK which I presume came from the middle isle of a German
supermarket.

It "charges up" but then pressing the on button results in a second of
motor action before it turns off.

Disassembling the unit reveals a battery pack made up of four 18650 Li-Ion
cells, 2200 mAh at 14.8 Volts, with a date of 2018-09-28 which I presume
is the assembly date of that pack.

Testing each individual cell on my cheap multi-meter shows:
4.08
4.11
4.12
4.13
volts (or thereabouts), and the ammeter showed 14 or so Amps for each.I
cannot test again just yet as the fuse (10 Amp) blew. Of course.

The electronic circuit attached to the cells within the pack shows 16.4
Volts and an unknown current; this attempt to test the current is what I
presume blew the fuse in the multi-meter.

Can anyone suggest any ideas what might be wrong?

Is it likely that new battery pack will resurrect the machine? (I was just
about to order one but thought I'd ask here if anyone can see any reason
why it'd be a waste of time and money.)

Thanks in advance.

On 07/03/2024 13:00, David Paste wrote:
> Someone has given me a handheld hoover to look at. It is a HoLIFE
> HLHM036ADUK which I presume came from the middle isle of a German
> supermarket.
>
> It "charges up" but then pressing the on button results in a second of
> motor action before it turns off.
>
> Disassembling the unit reveals a battery pack made up of four 18650 Li-Ion
> cells, 2200 mAh at 14.8 Volts, with a date of 2018-09-28 which I presume
> is the assembly date of that pack.
>
> Testing each individual cell on my cheap multi-meter shows:
> 4.08
> 4.11
> 4.12
> 4.13
> volts (or thereabouts), and the ammeter showed 14 or so Amps for each.I
> cannot test again just yet as the fuse (10 Amp) blew. Of course.
>
> The electronic circuit attached to the cells within the pack shows 16.4
> Volts and an unknown current; this attempt to test the current is what I
> presume blew the fuse in the multi-meter.
>
> Can anyone suggest any ideas what might be wrong?
>
> Is it likely that new battery pack will resurrect the machine? (I was just
> about to order one but thought I'd ask here if anyone can see any reason
> why it'd be a waste of time and money.)
>
> Thanks in advance.

I've had 2 of the things, and they've both failed in the same way. I
think that the control board fails in some fashion, and I doubt whether
replacing the batteries would make any difference. I would chuck it in
the nearest skip - or at least hand it in at somewhere like Currys to be
recycled.
--
Cheers,
Roger

David Paste <pastedavid@gmail.invalid> wrote:
> Someone has given me a handheld hoover to look at. It is a HoLIFE
> HLHM036ADUK which I presume came from the middle isle of a German
> supermarket.
>
> It "charges up" but then pressing the on button results in a second of
> motor action before it turns off.

On the Dyson handhelds, pulsing or cutting out is a result of the filter
getting blocked. The airflow is used to cool the motor, so if the filter is
blocked the motor overheats and cuts out.

Clean or change the filters (there are two, the post-motor filter is often
overlooked) and it comes back to life.

Theo

On 07/03/2024 13:00, David Paste wrote:
> Someone has given me a handheld hoover to look at. It is a HoLIFE
> HLHM036ADUK which I presume came from the middle isle of a German
> supermarket.
>
> It "charges up" but then pressing the on button results in a second of
> motor action before it turns off.
>
> Disassembling the unit reveals a battery pack made up of four 18650 Li-Ion
> cells, 2200 mAh at 14.8 Volts, with a date of 2018-09-28 which I presume
> is the assembly date of that pack.
>
> Testing each individual cell on my cheap multi-meter shows:
> 4.08
> 4.11
> 4.12
> 4.13
> volts (or thereabouts), and the ammeter showed 14 or so Amps for each.I
> cannot test again just yet as the fuse (10 Amp) blew. Of course.
>
> The electronic circuit attached to the cells within the pack shows 16.4
> Volts and an unknown current; this attempt to test the current is what I
> presume blew the fuse in the multi-meter.
>
> Can anyone suggest any ideas what might be wrong?
>
> Is it likely that new battery pack will resurrect the machine? (I was just
> about to order one but thought I'd ask here if anyone can see any reason
> why it'd be a waste of time and money.)
>
> Thanks in advance.

I had precisely the same fault with a Bush hand-held hoover, though this
one had more cells.

The fault was a bad connection between the battery pack and the main
PCB. There were two connectors on two separate cables, a two-way
high-current power connector, and a multiway lower current battery
monitor connector. The latter had worked loose, and the hoover cut out
after about a second, just as you describe.

PS. Don't test battery current with your meter. It's unlikely to tell
you anything useful, and may damage something other than your fuse.

--
Cheers
Clive

On 3/7/2024 8:00 AM, David Paste wrote:
> Someone has given me a handheld hoover to look at. It is a HoLIFE
> HLHM036ADUK which I presume came from the middle isle of a German
> supermarket.
>
> It "charges up" but then pressing the on button results in a second of
> motor action before it turns off.
>
> Disassembling the unit reveals a battery pack made up of four 18650 Li-Ion
> cells, 2200 mAh at 14.8 Volts, with a date of 2018-09-28 which I presume
> is the assembly date of that pack.
>
> Testing each individual cell on my cheap multi-meter shows:
> 4.08
> 4.11
> 4.12
> 4.13
> volts (or thereabouts), and the ammeter showed 14 or so Amps for each.I
> cannot test again just yet as the fuse (10 Amp) blew. Of course.
>
> The electronic circuit attached to the cells within the pack shows 16.4
> Volts and an unknown current; this attempt to test the current is what I
> presume blew the fuse in the multi-meter.
>
> Can anyone suggest any ideas what might be wrong?
>
> Is it likely that new battery pack will resurrect the machine? (I was just
> about to order one but thought I'd ask here if anyone can see any reason
> why it'd be a waste of time and money.)
>
> Thanks in advance.
>

My multimeter is quite old, and I've only measured current a couple of
times, and that was with 10mA currents or so (I measure circuits
which are intrinsically limited, on amperes). The fuse has never been
tested by an activity of mine. There are just so many stories
of blowing the fuse :-) Notice that the meter has a duty cycle
spec printed in the plastic "make a measurement for a couple seconds
then let the shunt cool off for *15 minutes* ". This avoids
the solder inside the meter, melting and the shunt floating away.
You cannot measure 10 amps DC on a regular multimeter for an hour
on end. The meter is limited as to how long it can take that situation.
While the warning print is hard to read, each multimeter has that ampere
measurement warning on it... somewhere. The warning is concerning
operation very near "max".

This is the circuit before analysis.

Your battery seems quite sprightly, and the fact the
motor operates for a second, indicates there is some
energy there. The voltages indicate a fresh charge
to me, and the cells will drop back to 3.7V if measured
24 hours from now.

+--------------- controller ---------------+
(+) | |
----- |
--- |
----- |
--- 16V Motor
----- (fully charged, |
--- relaxing) |
----- |
--- |
(-) | |
+------------------------------------------+

To measure current, the meter goes in series.
A wire needs to be cut (or disconnected) to make
a measurement with a conventional DC ammeter.
Digital meters have (+) or (-) sign next to digits, so the
polarity of the meter connection is not an imperative.
Only an old Simpson analog meter, did you need to know
what you were doing. As you could bend the indicator
needle by connecting it backwards.
(+) (+)
+--amps--+ +--amps--+
| | | |
+---X X-- controller --X +---+
(+) | total motor |
----- amps amps |
--- |
----- |
--- 16V Motor
----- (fully charged, |
--- relaxing) |
----- |
--- |
(-) | |
+------------------------------------------+

Something could be malfunctioning in the controller.
The controller could be acting as the BMS (battery
management system) and protecting you from surprises.
Placing a short right across the battery pack, by
placing the ammeter across it, may cause the fusible
link inside a battery cell to open (which is a
level of protection separate from a BMS action). Once the
fusible link opens, the pack is ruined as it were. That's
the "final level of safety" in the pack, the four
fusible links, one per cell.

The BMS can disconnect the load, when the pack voltage
is too low. But such a low condition could be sensed
by the BMS, simply because a wire on the left side is
thin and ohmic and there is excessive voltage drop in
the cabling.

*******

You can measure current, without using the multimeter.
My protocol, is to use my multimeter for voltage and
when measuring a resistance in ohms on the scale. The
separate holes for amps, almost never get used on the
handheld multimeter.

I have a clamp-on AC/DC ammeter similar to this one.
It is based on a Hall probe, which is a contactless
means of measuring mag field. The wire coming from
the battery, has a mag field proportional to the
10-20 amperes of current. By placing the jaws of the
meter around the wire, I can measure a DC flow, and
since it is contactless, the meter has no effect
on the circuit whatsoever. No flashover, no arc,
no explosion. These are priced for business users,
rather than home users.

https://calright.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/380947.jpg

DC Current Range 40A, 400A <=== this is why we buy such a meter.

"No fuses to blow"
"Does not interfere with circuit"
"Place clamp around wire needing current measurement"

It's not very sensitive on the low end. You can barely see 30 milliamps DC
with it. It tends to drift (Hall probes do that), and needs to be zeroed
with the jaws off the wire first, before taking a reading. There is a zero
push button, on the instrument face.

Clamp meters come in two types. AC/DC (more expensive, Hall Probe).
AC only (current transformer type, cheaper). That meter is the
most expensive metering device in the house. It was bought
on the expectation I would be fixing things. I have measured
150 amps DC on the car starter motor start cycle, as the
largest current it has measured. The portable vacuum will need
a DC measurement.

Something on the right hand side of your circuit
diagram, is more likely to be at fault. Assuming
you haven't ruined the pack, the pack part on the
left seems good.

On some devices, the manufacturer pours a polymer resin
over the controller, to prevent the home owner from
repairing it. It isn't always the case, that it was
designed for repair or analysis.

With a DC Clamp ammeter, I would not hesitate in this case,
to check the motor current flow level. It could be
overloading the circuit components on the left of the diagram.

The clamp meter, if measuring mains, there is a hot wire
and a return wire. The mag fields cancel. The clamp on
meter measures zero if you clamp the two wires together. To do mains
work, you need a short extension, with the three wires in the
cord exposed (a loop of wire for each), so that the clamp
meter goes around *one* of the wires only. Then you can make
a meaningful measurement.

*******

Say that we were in the era before clamp-on Hall Probe ammeters.
How would you safely make the measurement then ?

With a manganin shunt. The example is a four point shunt. This is merely
a replacement for the much smaller shunt inside your multimeter.
You can ruin a shunt, and your multimeter might survive to run
another day.

https://riedon.com/resistors/view/dc-ammeter-shunts-busbar-shunts-rsn

The small screws are the voltage sense points. You connect your
multimeter on volts, to the small screws.

The shunt still goes in series with the load, as in the multimeter drawing.
That's what the larger screw points are for, the current flow connections.

Let's say I buy a RSN-100-100b. That's a 100 amp shunt, to be run at
no more than 60 amps (for thermal reasons), where the voltage sense
terminals put out 60mV when 60A flows. This means the voltage calibration
on your multimeter, now measures Amps, even though the meter is set
to 200mV full scale. If the meter reads 60mV, it is telling you
that 60 amps are flowing in the shunt. That's why I picked a *specific*
shunt, so the meter reading would be a "rational" one.

The shunt is made of two metals. Manganin in the center. The voltage
sense points should still be embedded in manganin. If the manganin gets
burning hot, the resistance of manganin changes little with temperature.
Manganin and Zeronel are alloys used for making shunts. The voltage
sense points (small screws) go to the multimeter. You never connect
the large fat current flow cables, to the small screws.

On Thu, 7 Mar 2024 13:00:15 -0000 (UTC), David Paste
<pastedavid@gmail.invalid> wrote:

>Someone has given me a handheld hoover to look at. It is a HoLIFE
>HLHM036ADUK which I presume came from the middle isle of a German
>supermarket.
>
>It "charges up" but then pressing the on button results in a second of
>motor action before it turns off.
>
>Disassembling the unit reveals a battery pack made up of four 18650 Li-Ion
>cells, 2200 mAh at 14.8 Volts, with a date of 2018-09-28 which I presume
>is the assembly date of that pack.
>
>Testing each individual cell on my cheap multi-meter shows:
>4.08
>4.11
>4.12
>4.13
>volts (or thereabouts), and the ammeter showed 14 or so Amps for each.I
>cannot test again just yet as the fuse (10 Amp) blew. Of course.
>
>The electronic circuit attached to the cells within the pack shows 16.4
>Volts and an unknown current; this attempt to test the current is what I
>presume blew the fuse in the multi-meter.
>
>Can anyone suggest any ideas what might be wrong?
>
>Is it likely that new battery pack will resurrect the machine? (I was just
>about to order one but thought I'd ask here if anyone can see any reason
>why it'd be a waste of time and money.)
>
>Thanks in advance.

I used to have a hand-held vacuum cleaner - would run for a few
seconds then stop. Turns out the dust filter pad was choked with fine
dust. Gave it a good wash and dry and it was OK after that.

--
Chris

On 07/03/2024 21:38, Chris Hogg wrote:

>
> I used to have a hand-held vacuum cleaner - would run for a few
> seconds then stop. Turns out the dust filter pad was choked with fine
> dust. Gave it a good wash and dry and it was OK after that.
>

I've had experience of three different hand held, battery operated,
small vacuum cleaners and I found that their ability to vacuum anything
diminishes rapidly if the filters are not washed and dried out on a very
regular basis. In most cases the removable plastic dust collection
container needs a periodic swill through with water.

For my current Gtech cordless vacuum cleaners I have a set of
replacement filters that I swap over every time I empty the dust
collecting container, allowing the ones removed to be washed and then
dried, which can take a day.

For bigger vacuuming jobs My Henry, using disposable HepaFlo bags, is a
lot less hassle to clean. I've done nothing more than just change the
bag in the last year or so and even in the past when vacuuming up
plaster dust etc. the plastic tub has only had a quick squirt with the
garden hose. The filters still look near pristine after a decade of use,
and without being replaced or washed.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 08:10:01 +0000, alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 07/03/2024 21:38, Chris Hogg wrote:
>
>>
>> I used to have a hand-held vacuum cleaner - would run for a few
>> seconds then stop. Turns out the dust filter pad was choked with fine
>> dust. Gave it a good wash and dry and it was OK after that.
>>
>
>I've had experience of three different hand held, battery operated,
>small vacuum cleaners and I found that their ability to vacuum anything
>diminishes rapidly if the filters are not washed and dried out on a very
>regular basis. In most cases the removable plastic dust collection
>container needs a periodic swill through with water.
>
>For my current Gtech cordless vacuum cleaners I have a set of
>replacement filters that I swap over every time I empty the dust
>collecting container, allowing the ones removed to be washed and then
>dried, which can take a day.
>
>For bigger vacuuming jobs My Henry, using disposable HepaFlo bags, is a
>lot less hassle to clean. I've done nothing more than just change the
>bag in the last year or so and even in the past when vacuuming up
>plaster dust etc. the plastic tub has only had a quick squirt with the
>garden hose. The filters still look near pristine after a decade of use,
>and without being replaced or washed.

With mine, it wasn't just the suction ability that was affected but I
think it used the air after the filter to cool the motor. No filtered
air > no cooling > motor overheating > shut-off.

--
Chris

On 08/03/2024 08:10, alan_m wrote:
> On 07/03/2024 21:38, Chris Hogg wrote:
>
>>
>> I used to have a hand-held vacuum cleaner - would run for a few
>> seconds then stop. Turns out the dust filter pad was choked with fine
>> dust. Gave it a good wash and dry and it was OK after that.
>>
>
> I've had experience of three different hand held, battery operated,
> small vacuum cleaners and I found that their ability to vacuum anything
> diminishes rapidly if the filters are not washed and dried out on a very
> regular basis. In most cases the removable plastic dust collection
> container needs a periodic swill through with water.

<snip>

Henry Quick handheld works well - it uses small bags ('pods') which last
a few weeks and save a lot of cleaning of parts. The normal Henry bides
its time under the stairs, brooding and plotting its revenge.

--
Cheers
Clive

On 07/03/2024 14:23, Theo wrote:
> David Paste <pastedavid@gmail.invalid> wrote:
>> Someone has given me a handheld hoover to look at. It is a HoLIFE
>> HLHM036ADUK which I presume came from the middle isle of a German
>> supermarket.
>>
>> It "charges up" but then pressing the on button results in a second of
>> motor action before it turns off.
>
> On the Dyson handhelds, pulsing or cutting out is a result of the filter
> getting blocked. The airflow is used to cool the motor, so if the filter is
> blocked the motor overheats and cuts out.
>
> Clean or change the filters (there are two, the post-motor filter is often
> overlooked) and it comes back to life.
>
> Theo

A DC59 handheld only has one filter. It does neeed to be cleaned.
--
Michael Chare

Michael Chare <mUNDERSCOREnews@charedotorg.uk> wrote:
> On 07/03/2024 14:23, Theo wrote:
> > David Paste <pastedavid@gmail.invalid> wrote:
> >> Someone has given me a handheld hoover to look at. It is a HoLIFE
> >> HLHM036ADUK which I presume came from the middle isle of a German
> >> supermarket.
> >>
> >> It "charges up" but then pressing the on button results in a second of
> >> motor action before it turns off.
> >
> > On the Dyson handhelds, pulsing or cutting out is a result of the filter
> > getting blocked. The airflow is used to cool the motor, so if the filter is
> > blocked the motor overheats and cuts out.
> >
> > Clean or change the filters (there are two, the post-motor filter is often
> > overlooked) and it comes back to life.
> >
> > Theo
>
> A DC59 handheld only has one filter. It does neeed to be cleaned.

There's still a post-motor filter. In the HEPA versions (not sure if the
DC59 has those, the V6 that shares parts does) it's a removeable unit that
can be replaced, on the non-HEPA versions it's a ring of foam at the outlet,
inside the motor housing. Both can clog up, especially if you vacuum up
fine dust like plaster or flour.

Theo