Anyone know whether customers have the right to see the raw smart meter data
that the suppliers collect from smart meters? I ask because our latest bill
from EDF for the Village Hall still contains a couple of Estimated Readings.
And yet the smart meter was installed well (i.e., at least six months) before
the important moment, which is when we went onto a contract with cheaper
tariffs. They've "estimated" the readings for that moment.

Online, I can see the usage for any given day since soon after installation,
in hourly chunks. So f'rinstance by adding up the bars I can see how many kWh
are used overnight for the storage heaters. But there's no sign of any access
to the raw meter numbers.

--
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

HL Mencken

On 3 Mar 2024 at 12:14:09 GMT, Tim Streater wrote:

> Anyone know whether customers have the right to see the raw smart meter data
> that the suppliers collect from smart meters? I ask because our latest bill
> from EDF for the Village Hall still contains a couple of Estimated Readings.
> And yet the smart meter was installed well (i.e., at least six months) before
> the important moment, which is when we went onto a contract with cheaper
> tariffs. They've "estimated" the readings for that moment.
>
> Online, I can see the usage for any given day since soon after installation,
> in hourly chunks. So f'rinstance by adding up the bars I can see how many kWh
> are used overnight for the storage heaters. But there's no sign of any access
> to the raw meter numbers.

I can download data sent/received using the Bright app on my phone - service
provided by https://glowmarkt.com/home

--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

On 3 Mar 2024 at 17:53:58 GMT, "RJH" <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:

> On 3 Mar 2024 at 12:14:09 GMT, Tim Streater wrote:
>
>> Anyone know whether customers have the right to see the raw smart meter data
>> that the suppliers collect from smart meters? I ask because our latest bill
>> from EDF for the Village Hall still contains a couple of Estimated Readings.
>> And yet the smart meter was installed well (i.e., at least six months) before
>> the important moment, which is when we went onto a contract with cheaper
>> tariffs. They've "estimated" the readings for that moment.
>>
>> Online, I can see the usage for any given day since soon after installation,
>> in hourly chunks. So f'rinstance by adding up the bars I can see how many kWh
>> are used overnight for the storage heaters. But there's no sign of any access
>> to the raw meter numbers.
>
> I can download data sent/received using the Bright app on my phone - service
> provided by https://glowmarkt.com/home

Thanks but the URL doesn't appear to do jack.

--
"A committee is a cul-de-sac down which ideas are lured and then quietly strangled." - Sir Barnett Cocks (1907-1989)

On 12:14 3 Mar 2024, Tim Streater said:
>
> Anyone know whether customers have the right to see the raw smart
> meter data that the suppliers collect from smart meters? I ask because
> our latest bill from EDF for the Village Hall still contains a couple
> of Estimated Readings. And yet the smart meter was installed well
> (i.e., at least six months) before the important moment, which is when
> we went onto a contract with cheaper tariffs. They've "estimated" the
> readings for that moment.
>
> Online, I can see the usage for any given day since soon after
> installation, in hourly chunks. So f'rinstance by adding up the bars I
> can see how many kWh are used overnight for the storage heaters. But
> there's no sign of any access to the raw meter numbers.

Theoretically you have the right to a copy of your metering data. I applied
for mine but received a scrappy spreadsheet which looked like someone's
effort at cutting and pasting data. It wasn't quick either and needed some
chasing. Luckily I didn't need more info, so I left it at that.

See https://openenergy.org.uk/data-protection-and-smart-meter-data/

On 3 Mar 2024 at 18:25:15 GMT, Tim Streater wrote:

> On 3 Mar 2024 at 17:53:58 GMT, "RJH" <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>> On 3 Mar 2024 at 12:14:09 GMT, Tim Streater wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone know whether customers have the right to see the raw smart meter data
>>> that the suppliers collect from smart meters? I ask because our latest bill
>>> from EDF for the Village Hall still contains a couple of Estimated Readings.
>>> And yet the smart meter was installed well (i.e., at least six months) before
>>> the important moment, which is when we went onto a contract with cheaper
>>> tariffs. They've "estimated" the readings for that moment.
>>>
>>> Online, I can see the usage for any given day since soon after installation,
>>> in hourly chunks. So f'rinstance by adding up the bars I can see how many kWh
>>> are used overnight for the storage heaters. But there's no sign of any access
>>> to the raw meter numbers.
>>
>> I can download data sent/received using the Bright app on my phone - service
>> provided by https://glowmarkt.com/home
>
> Thanks but the URL doesn't appear to do jack.

Indeed - you'll need to register (click the 'sign up here' button) and enter
the details of your meter(s). It won't 'know' you until that's done. Then it
takes maybe a day or so for everything to catch up.

It does work for me - I just used the web interface to download all of the
daily usage data since the meters were fitted.

I don't have one of their display units - I just use what Eon gave me. And
their support is very responsive. So I'm not quite sure what they motivation
is for people like me . . .
--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
> On 3 Mar 2024 at 18:25:15 GMT, Tim Streater wrote:
>
> > On 3 Mar 2024 at 17:53:58 GMT, "RJH" <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Anyone know whether customers have the right to see the raw smart meter data
> >>> that the suppliers collect from smart meters? I ask because our latest bill
> >>> from EDF for the Village Hall still contains a couple of Estimated Readings.
> >>> And yet the smart meter was installed well (i.e., at least six months) before
> >>> the important moment, which is when we went onto a contract with cheaper
> >>> tariffs. They've "estimated" the readings for that moment.
> >>>
> >>> Online, I can see the usage for any given day since soon after installation,
> >>> in hourly chunks. So f'rinstance by adding up the bars I can see how many kWh
> >>> are used overnight for the storage heaters. But there's no sign of any access
> >>> to the raw meter numbers.
> >>
> >> I can download data sent/received using the Bright app on my phone - service
> >> provided by https://glowmarkt.com/home
> >
> > Thanks but the URL doesn't appear to do jack.
>
> Indeed - you'll need to register (click the 'sign up here' button) and enter
> the details of your meter(s). It won't 'know' you until that's done. Then it
> takes maybe a day or so for everything to catch up.
>
> It does work for me - I just used the web interface to download all of the
> daily usage data since the meters were fitted.

What data do you get? Above you suggest you can see 'data sent/received' -
what does that mean? It sounds like a transcription of the conversation
between the meter and the DCC - I'm a bit surprised a third party can see
that.

Getting the usage data is something the energy supplier may give you, but
Tim wanted the meter readings. I don't know if smart meters actually send
the absolute readings in each message, or just usage for each (half hourly
or other) period.

Theo

On 3 Mar 2024 at 23:11:57 GMT, Theo wrote:

> RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Indeed - you'll need to register (click the 'sign up here' button) and enter
>> the details of your meter(s). It won't 'know' you until that's done. Then it
>> takes maybe a day or so for everything to catch up.
>>
>> It does work for me - I just used the web interface to download all of the
>> daily usage data since the meters were fitted.
>
> What data do you get? Above you suggest you can see 'data sent/received' -
> what does that mean? It sounds like a transcription of the conversation
> between the meter and the DCC - I'm a bit surprised a third party can see
> that.
>
Only in the sense of sent by me and received by them. This is an example;

1687937400 5.269 2023-06-28T07:30:00.000Z

BTW - do you/anyone know how to make sense of the epoch Timestamp figure?

> Getting the usage data is something the energy supplier may give you, but
> Tim wanted the meter readings. I don't know if smart meters actually send
> the absolute readings in each message, or just usage for each (half hourly
> or other) period.
>

Yes, good point - thought he'd asked for 'data'. Assuming he does have a
useful historical reading, he'd have to add a column and add the consumption
for the reading - trivial if you can use Excel or similar, but not if you
can't.

--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

On 4 Mar 2024 at 04:19:29 GMT, RJH wrote:

> On 3 Mar 2024 at 23:11:57 GMT, Theo wrote:
>
>> RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Indeed - you'll need to register (click the 'sign up here' button) and enter
>>> the details of your meter(s). It won't 'know' you until that's done. Then it
>>> takes maybe a day or so for everything to catch up.
>>>
>>> It does work for me - I just used the web interface to download all of the
>>> daily usage data since the meters were fitted.
>>
>> What data do you get? Above you suggest you can see 'data sent/received' -
>> what does that mean? It sounds like a transcription of the conversation
>> between the meter and the DCC - I'm a bit surprised a third party can see
>> that.
>>
> Only in the sense of sent by me and received by them. This is an example;
>
> 1687937400 5.269 2023-06-28T07:30:00.000Z
>
> BTW - do you/anyone know how to make sense of the epoch Timestamp figure?

.. . . the figure starting 1687

--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

RJH wrote:

> This is an example;
>
> 1687937400 5.269 2023-06-28T07:30:00.000Z
>
> BTW - do you/anyone know how to make sense of the epoch Timestamp figure?

looks like a unix timestamp ...
yep, Wed Jun 28 2023 07:30:00 GMT+0000

you can use an online converter, e.g.
<https://www.unixtimestamp.com/>

On 3 Mar 2024 at 19:05:26 GMT, "RJH" <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:

> On 3 Mar 2024 at 18:25:15 GMT, Tim Streater wrote:
>
>> On 3 Mar 2024 at 17:53:58 GMT, "RJH" <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3 Mar 2024 at 12:14:09 GMT, Tim Streater wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anyone know whether customers have the right to see the raw smart meter data
>>>> that the suppliers collect from smart meters? I ask because our latest bill
>>>> from EDF for the Village Hall still contains a couple of Estimated Readings.
>>>> And yet the smart meter was installed well (i.e., at least six months) before
>>>> the important moment, which is when we went onto a contract with cheaper
>>>> tariffs. They've "estimated" the readings for that moment.
>>>>
>>>> Online, I can see the usage for any given day since soon after installation,
>>>> in hourly chunks. So f'rinstance by adding up the bars I can see how many kWh
>>>> are used overnight for the storage heaters. But there's no sign of any access
>>>> to the raw meter numbers.
>>>
>>> I can download data sent/received using the Bright app on my phone - service
>>> provided by https://glowmarkt.com/home
>>
>> Thanks but the URL doesn't appear to do jack.
>
> Indeed - you'll need to register (click the 'sign up here' button) and enter
> the details of your meter(s).

:-) Thanks, it wasn't that, it was just that the URL took 20 mins or more to
load. I signed up later when I noticed it had finished loading, but I've not
registered the meter yet. I read thru their Ts&Cs, from which you can't exit
without clicking "Agree". But part of what you are agreeing to is that "you
live at these premises". Hard to agree when (a) no premises have been
mentioned or defined and (b) of course I don't - it's a Village Hall FFS!

--
Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it, and Hell where they already have it.

Ronald Reagan

On 3 Mar 2024 at 23:11:57 GMT, "Theo" <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
wrote:

> RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
>> On 3 Mar 2024 at 18:25:15 GMT, Tim Streater wrote:
>>
>>> On 3 Mar 2024 at 17:53:58 GMT, "RJH" <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Anyone know whether customers have the right to see the raw smart meter data
>>>>> that the suppliers collect from smart meters? I ask because our latest bill
>>>>> from EDF for the Village Hall still contains a couple of Estimated Readings.
>>>>> And yet the smart meter was installed well (i.e., at least six months) before
>>>>> the important moment, which is when we went onto a contract with cheaper
>>>>> tariffs. They've "estimated" the readings for that moment.
>>>>>
>>>>> Online, I can see the usage for any given day since soon after installation,
>>>>> in hourly chunks. So f'rinstance by adding up the bars I can see how many kWh
>>>>> are used overnight for the storage heaters. But there's no sign of any access
>>>>> to the raw meter numbers.
>>>>
>>>> I can download data sent/received using the Bright app on my phone - service
>>>> provided by https://glowmarkt.com/home
>>>
>>> Thanks but the URL doesn't appear to do jack.
>>
>> Indeed - you'll need to register (click the 'sign up here' button) and enter
>> the details of your meter(s). It won't 'know' you until that's done. Then it
>> takes maybe a day or so for everything to catch up.
>>
>> It does work for me - I just used the web interface to download all of the
>> daily usage data since the meters were fitted.
>
> What data do you get? Above you suggest you can see 'data sent/received' -
> what does that mean? It sounds like a transcription of the conversation
> between the meter and the DCC - I'm a bit surprised a third party can see
> that.
>
> Getting the usage data is something the energy supplier may give you, but
> Tim wanted the meter readings. I don't know if smart meters actually send
> the absolute readings in each message, or just usage for each (half hourly
> or other) period.

If they did that, they'd be screwed if there was a drop-out from time to time.
Their only way round that would be to ask for a reading, which goes against
the whole supposed point of the "smartness".

--
Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.

Terry Pratchett

On 4 Mar 2024 at 04:19:29 GMT, "RJH" <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:

> On 3 Mar 2024 at 23:11:57 GMT, Theo wrote:
>
>> RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Indeed - you'll need to register (click the 'sign up here' button) and enter
>>> the details of your meter(s). It won't 'know' you until that's done. Then it
>>> takes maybe a day or so for everything to catch up.
>>>
>>> It does work for me - I just used the web interface to download all of the
>>> daily usage data since the meters were fitted.
>>
>> What data do you get? Above you suggest you can see 'data sent/received' -
>> what does that mean? It sounds like a transcription of the conversation
>> between the meter and the DCC - I'm a bit surprised a third party can see
>> that.
>>
> Only in the sense of sent by me and received by them. This is an example;
>
> 1687937400 5.269 2023-06-28T07:30:00.000Z

23rd June 2023 07.30.00 UTC, I'd have said.

> BTW - do you/anyone know how to make sense of the epoch Timestamp figure?
>
>> Getting the usage data is something the energy supplier may give you, but
>> Tim wanted the meter readings. I don't know if smart meters actually send
>> the absolute readings in each message, or just usage for each (half hourly
>> or other) period.
>>
>
> Yes, good point - thought he'd asked for 'data'. Assuming he does have a
> useful historical reading, he'd have to add a column and add the consumption
> for the reading - trivial if you can use Excel or similar, but not if you
> can't.

I want the meter readings so I can navigate to the date of our being moved to
a cheaper tariff, and see if their "estimated" reading for that date matches.

--
First of all, a message to English left-wing journalists and intellectuals generally: 'Do remember that dishonesty and cowardice always have to be paid for. Don't imagine that for years on end you can make yourself the boot-licking propagandist of the Soviet régime, or any other régime, and then suddenly return to mental decency. Once a whore, always a whore.'

George Orwell, 1 Sept 1944

Tim Streater <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
> If they did that, they'd be screwed if there was a drop-out from time to time.
> Their only way round that would be to ask for a reading, which goes against
> the whole supposed point of the "smartness".

Not necessarily - the meter caches the half-hourly consumption, so you just
need to wait for comms to reconnect before resending the batch of
half-hourly consumptions.

There may be a procedure which allows querying the reading on the front of
the meter to resync with the number to put on the customer bill, but it
doesn't follow that the meter is sending the full reading each time. For
one thing, sending all the digits that don't change is wasted bandwidth.

Theo

On 4 Mar 2024 at 08:22:22 GMT, Andy Burns wrote:

> RJH wrote:
>
>> This is an example;
>>
>> 1687937400 5.269 2023-06-28T07:30:00.000Z
>>
>> BTW - do you/anyone know how to make sense of the epoch Timestamp figure?
>
> looks like a unix timestamp ...
> yep, Wed Jun 28 2023 07:30:00 GMT+0000
>
> you can use an online converter, e.g.
> <https://www.unixtimestamp.com/>

Ah thanks (and Tim)
--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

On 03/03/2024 23:11, Theo wrote:

> Getting the usage data is something the energy supplier may give you, but
> Tim wanted the meter readings. I don't know if smart meters actually send
> the absolute readings in each message, or just usage for each (half hourly
> or other) period.

I would imagine that the absolute cumulative meter reading since the
meter was originally installed would be sent periodically (maybe once a
day) even if incremental readings from that are sent every half-hour or
whatever.

Octopus *appear* to have recorded usage for just the first few hours of
one day last week (all the later readings that day are zero). Or that is
that their app shows.

I am sure that we will end up being charged for the full usage that day,
even it is not itemised per half-hour and just catches up at the end of
the day.

My experience of our smart meters (elec and gas) is that the readings in
the app takes a *lot* longer to appear that I would have imagined.
Usually it takes until late morning for yesterday's elec reading to show
and until late afternoon for the gas reading to show. I thought the app
would show the readings for 00:00:00-23:59:59 of yesterday from 00:00:00
today - ie as soon as the "counting period" had ended.

I found a third-party app that shows the hourly usage of our electricity
and gas, but talking directly to the In Home Device (IHD) console so it
is bang up to date. It worked brilliantly last summer, but the day the
clocks went back from BST to GMT, the gas readings went loopy. Now
"Yesterday" for the electricity reading relates to yesterday, but
"Yesterday" for gas relates to the day before yesterday - consistently,
and for every day, not just the special "Yesterday" reading. So for
example if the Octopus app shows

2 Mar 121 232 (elect, gas)
1 Mar 234 345
29 Feb 456 567
28 Feb 789 890

Then the third-party app shows

2 Mar 121 345
1 Mar 234 567
29 Feb 456 890

Reminds me of the Two Ronnies sketch "Answering the question before" ;=)

I raised a support call / bug, but nothing has happened sicne I raised
it a day or so after the clocks went back.

I am most intrigued to see if the problem rights itself in a few weeks
when we change from GMT to BST...

On 04/03/2024 08:22, Andy Burns wrote:
> RJH wrote:
>
>> This is an example;
>>
>> 1687937400    5.269    2023-06-28T07:30:00.000Z
>>
>> BTW - do you/anyone know how to make sense of the epoch Timestamp figure?
>
> looks like a unix timestamp ...
> yep, Wed Jun 28 2023 07:30:00 GMT+0000
>
> you can use an online converter, e.g.
> <https://www.unixtimestamp.com/>
>
>
>
What happens on January 19th, 2038 at 03:14:07 ?

Andrew wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> <https://www.unixtimestamp.com/>
>
> What happens on January 19th, 2038 at 03:14:07 ?

If you're not using 64bit timestamps by then ... game over.

On 07/03/2024 20:27, Andrew wrote:
> On 04/03/2024 08:22, Andy Burns wrote:
>> RJH wrote:
>>
>>> This is an example;
>>>
>>> 1687937400    5.269    2023-06-28T07:30:00.000Z
>>>
>>> BTW - do you/anyone know how to make sense of the epoch Timestamp
>>> figure?
>>
>> looks like a unix timestamp ...
>> yep, Wed Jun 28 2023 07:30:00 GMT+0000
>>
>> you can use an online converter, e.g.
>> <https://www.unixtimestamp.com/>
>>
>>
>>
> What happens on January 19th, 2038 at 03:14:07 ?

I think the 8 bit world will have disapppeared.

--
"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow witted
man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest
thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly
persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid
before him."

- Leo Tolstoy

On 07/03/2024 20:49, Andy Burns wrote:
> Andrew wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> <https://www.unixtimestamp.com/>
>>
>> What happens on January 19th, 2038 at 03:14:07 ?
>
> If you're not using 64bit timestamps by then ... game over.
>

Never overestimate the ability of the manufacturers cost
accountants though :-(