I know, nothing seems to last any more, does it?

This percolator (Model CP2) stopped working yesterday and I have
traced the fault to the thermal cutout which seems to have stuck in
the cut-out mode. The markings on the device are 430-671 STEMCO L205
but the maker and part number are so ancient that I don't even get a
Googlewhack so could anybody suggest a modern day replacement? This
one is about 18mm diameter although since it is clipped to a flat
surface anything about that size will do. I'm guessing that the
temperature at which it switches off will be around 90-95deg C since
it's a coffee percolator not a kettle but any advice about a suitable
replacement would be gratefully received.

Many thanks,

Nick

Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote:
> I know, nothing seems to last any more, does it?
>
> This percolator (Model CP2) stopped working yesterday and I have
> traced the fault to the thermal cutout which seems to have stuck in
> the cut-out mode. The markings on the device are 430-671 STEMCO L205
> but the maker and part number are so ancient that I don't even get a
> Googlewhack so could anybody suggest a modern day replacement? This
> one is about 18mm diameter although since it is clipped to a flat
> surface anything about that size will do. I'm guessing that the
> temperature at which it switches off will be around 90-95deg C since
> it's a coffee percolator not a kettle but any advice about a suitable
> replacement would be gratefully received.

Hard to say without a picture, but does anything here look like it fits the
bill:

https://uk.farnell.com/w/c/sensors-transducers/sensors/temperature-sensors/thermal-reed-switches

You'll probably have to filter by temperature.

Is it being used to switch mains directly or as part of a circuit? Many of
those aren't mains rated.

There is also:
https://uk.farnell.com/c/sensors-transducers/sensors/temperature-sensors/thermostat-switches
many of which look more mains friendly.

Theo

Am 15.03.2024 um 15:20 schrieb Nick Odell:
> I know, nothing seems to last any more, does it?
>
> This percolator (Model CP2) stopped working yesterday and I have
> traced the fault to the thermal cutout which seems to have stuck in
> the cut-out mode. The markings on the device are 430-671 STEMCO L205
> but the maker and part number are so ancient that I don't even get a
> Googlewhack so could anybody suggest a modern day replacement? This
> one is about 18mm diameter although since it is clipped to a flat
> surface anything about that size will do. I'm guessing that the
> temperature at which it switches off will be around 90-95deg C since
> it's a coffee percolator not a kettle but any advice about a suitable
> replacement would be gratefully received.
>
18mm? Hm.
Search for 'ksd 301' resp. 'ksd301'
Does it look anway near that?
If size and shape fit, choose one with the correct
-Voltage
-Amperage
-Switching Temperature
-Switching mode: Normally on vs. Normally on

They are cheap, approx. 1Pound + shipping
Even available on Amazon (but more expensive there)

On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 14:20:57 +0000, Nick Odell
<nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote:

> I know, nothing seems to last any more, does it?
>
> This percolator (Model CP2) stopped working yesterday and I have traced
> the fault to the thermal cutout which seems to have stuck in the cut-out
> mode. The markings on the device are 430-671 STEMCO L205 but the maker
> and part number are so ancient that I don't even get a Googlewhack so
> could anybody suggest a modern day replacement? This one is about 18mm
> diameter although since it is clipped to a flat surface anything about
> that size will do. I'm guessing that the temperature at which it
> switches off will be around 90-95deg C since it's a coffee percolator
> not a kettle but any advice about a suitable replacement would be
> gratefully received.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Nick

Nick

I found this ... <https://www.electronicsurplus.com/stemco-402-396-l200h7-
thermal-cutoff-nc-l200-170-degree>

Wrong temp but ...

Avpx

p.s. 'ow's tricks?

--
"You're not allowed to call them dinosaurs anymore." said Yo-less. "It's
speciesist. You have to call them pre-petroleum persons."
(Johnny and the Bomb)
Fri 11154 Sep 15:05:01 GMT 1993
15:05:01 up 5 days, 40 min, 8 users, load average: 0.31, 0.35, 0.41

Am 15.03.2024 um 16:36 schrieb Matthias Czech:

> -Switching mode: Normally on vs. Normally on
>
Normally on vs. Normally off. Sorry.

On 15/03/2024 14:20, Nick Odell wrote:
> I know, nothing seems to last any more, does it?
>
> This percolator (Model CP2) stopped working yesterday and I have
> traced the fault to the thermal cutout which seems to have stuck in
> the cut-out mode. The markings on the device are 430-671 STEMCO L205
> but the maker and part number are so ancient that I don't even get a
> Googlewhack so could anybody suggest a modern day replacement? This
> one is about 18mm diameter although since it is clipped to a flat
> surface anything about that size will do. I'm guessing that the
> temperature at which it switches off will be around 90-95deg C since
> it's a coffee percolator not a kettle but any advice about a suitable
> replacement would be gratefully received.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Nick
>
There's a 1975 CP2 on eBay for £30 if you want to buy it for spares.

Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote

> I know, nothing seems to last any more, does it?

My stainless steel cutlery and stainless other stuff does.

On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 16:36:44 +0100, Matthias Czech
<matthias.czech@t-online.de> wrote:

>Am 15.03.2024 um 15:20 schrieb Nick Odell:
>> I know, nothing seems to last any more, does it?
>>
>> This percolator (Model CP2) stopped working yesterday and I have
>> traced the fault to the thermal cutout which seems to have stuck in
>> the cut-out mode. The markings on the device are 430-671 STEMCO L205
>> but the maker and part number are so ancient that I don't even get a
>> Googlewhack so could anybody suggest a modern day replacement? This
>> one is about 18mm diameter although since it is clipped to a flat
>> surface anything about that size will do. I'm guessing that the
>> temperature at which it switches off will be around 90-95deg C since
>> it's a coffee percolator not a kettle but any advice about a suitable
>> replacement would be gratefully received.
>>
>18mm? Hm.
>Search for 'ksd 301' resp. 'ksd301'
>Does it look anway near that?
>If size and shape fit, choose one with the correct
>-Voltage
>-Amperage
>-Switching Temperature
>-Switching mode: Normally on vs. Normally on
>
>They are cheap, approx. 1Pound + shipping
>Even available on Amazon (but more expensive there)

Yes, that's the type of thing - thanks.

Thinking about it, I wonder if the cut-off temperate might be rather
lower than 90? There are two heating coils at the base of the jug, one
which goes through the cut off switch and one that doesn't so I
presume one is the equivalent of the hotplate on a filter machine and
the other is the main heater. So if the cut off temperature were to be
about 90deg, every time the stored coffee droped below 90 the main
heater would kick in, wouldn't it? But if the thermostat were to be
set lower then the steady temperature of the stored coffee would be
maintained by the second coil. The trick must be to know what is the
optimum switch-off temperature which allows the coffee to brew but
doesn't keep switching on the main heater when the coffee is waiting
in the pot. I have no idea what that optimum temperature should be -
any ideas?

Nick

On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 17:23:12 +0000, mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> wrote:

>On 15/03/2024 14:20, Nick Odell wrote:
>> I know, nothing seems to last any more, does it?
>>
>> This percolator (Model CP2) stopped working yesterday and I have
>> traced the fault to the thermal cutout which seems to have stuck in
>> the cut-out mode. The markings on the device are 430-671 STEMCO L205
>> but the maker and part number are so ancient that I don't even get a
>> Googlewhack so could anybody suggest a modern day replacement? This
>> one is about 18mm diameter although since it is clipped to a flat
>> surface anything about that size will do. I'm guessing that the
>> temperature at which it switches off will be around 90-95deg C since
>> it's a coffee percolator not a kettle but any advice about a suitable
>> replacement would be gratefully received.
>>
>> Many thanks,
>>
>> Nick
>>
>There's a 1975 CP2 on eBay for £30 if you want to buy it for spares.

Yes, I saw that too. I'm very tempted because it looks nicer than mine
which is just a plain colour ceramic jug. But I already have too much
coffee-making equipment both ancient and modern. And while I hate to
throw things away, I don't want to hang on to broken and unusable
stuff.

Nick

Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote:
> I know, nothing seems to last any more, does it?
>
> This percolator (Model CP2) stopped working yesterday and I have
> traced the fault to the thermal cutout which seems to have stuck in
> the cut-out mode. The markings on the device are 430-671 STEMCO L205
> but the maker and part number are so ancient that I don't even get a
> Googlewhack so could anybody suggest a modern day replacement? This
> one is about 18mm diameter although since it is clipped to a flat
> surface anything about that size will do. I'm guessing that the
> temperature at which it switches off will be around 90-95deg C since
> it's a coffee percolator not a kettle but any advice about a suitable
> replacement would be gratefully received.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Nick
>

My parents had one. Made horrible coffee. Is it worth preserving? They
must have all disappeared for a reason….

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 15 Mar 2024 21:21:05 GMT, Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:

>Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote:
>> I know, nothing seems to last any more, does it?
>>
>> This percolator (Model CP2) stopped working yesterday and I have
>> traced the fault to the thermal cutout which seems to have stuck in
>> the cut-out mode. The markings on the device are 430-671 STEMCO L205
>> but the maker and part number are so ancient that I don't even get a
>> Googlewhack so could anybody suggest a modern day replacement? This
>> one is about 18mm diameter although since it is clipped to a flat
>> surface anything about that size will do. I'm guessing that the
>> temperature at which it switches off will be around 90-95deg C since
>> it's a coffee percolator not a kettle but any advice about a suitable
>> replacement would be gratefully received.
>>
>> Many thanks,
>>
>> Nick
>>
>
>My parents had one. Made horrible coffee.

Correlation is not necessarily causation :-)

IMO the coffee I make/made in it is no worse than that I make in my
filter > jug coffee maker though the simple camping cloth
filter-on-a-ring probably beats both of them but a)requires human
attention during the process and b)is messier to clean up afterwards.

For something nicer I can choose one of two different types of
espresso maker or a French press but what I choose to use depends on
the mood I'm in and which variety of coffee I have or haven't run out
of.

>Is it worth preserving? They
>must have all disappeared for a reason….
>
Superceded by flashier kitchen gadgets, I suppose. If I can cheaply
and easily make it work again it's worth it to me.

Any thoughts about the temperature setting for the thermal cut out?
Does anybody know what temperatures are set by other, more modern
coffee makers?

Nick

Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote:
> On 15 Mar 2024 21:21:05 GMT, Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
>
>> Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote:
>>> I know, nothing seems to last any more, does it?
>>>
>>> This percolator (Model CP2) stopped working yesterday and I have
>>> traced the fault to the thermal cutout which seems to have stuck in
>>> the cut-out mode. The markings on the device are 430-671 STEMCO L205
>>> but the maker and part number are so ancient that I don't even get a
>>> Googlewhack so could anybody suggest a modern day replacement? This
>>> one is about 18mm diameter although since it is clipped to a flat
>>> surface anything about that size will do. I'm guessing that the
>>> temperature at which it switches off will be around 90-95deg C since
>>> it's a coffee percolator not a kettle but any advice about a suitable
>>> replacement would be gratefully received.
>>>
>>> Many thanks,
>>>
>>> Nick
>>>
>>
>> My parents had one. Made horrible coffee.
>
> Correlation is not necessarily causation :-)
>
> IMO the coffee I make/made in it is no worse than that I make in my
> filter > jug coffee maker though the simple camping cloth
> filter-on-a-ring probably beats both of them but a)requires human
> attention during the process and b)is messier to clean up afterwards.
>
> For something nicer I can choose one of two different types of
> espresso maker or a French press but what I choose to use depends on
> the mood I'm in and which variety of coffee I have or haven't run out
> of.
>
>> Is it worth preserving? They
>> must have all disappeared for a reason….
>>
> Superceded by flashier kitchen gadgets, I suppose. If I can cheaply
> and easily make it work again it's worth it to me.
>
> Any thoughts about the temperature setting for the thermal cut out?
> Does anybody know what temperatures are set by other, more modern
> coffee makers?
>
> Nick
>

I can’t see how it can function unless it gets up to at least the boiling
point of water but I could be wrong. I suspect the thermal cut out is just
there in case it boils dry or gets turned on with no water in it, in which
case a replacement that works at 150°C should probably be safe enough.
This might be bollocks though. ;-)

You could always try putting the “guts” of the percolator into a pan of
water on your stove and see what temperature it needs to achieve to start
bubbling over.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 16 Mar 2024 15:42:58 GMT, Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:

>Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote:
>> On 15 Mar 2024 21:21:05 GMT, Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
>>
>>> Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote:
>>>> I know, nothing seems to last any more, does it?
>>>>
>>>> This percolator (Model CP2) stopped working yesterday and I have
>>>> traced the fault to the thermal cutout which seems to have stuck in
>>>> the cut-out mode. The markings on the device are 430-671 STEMCO L205
>>>> but the maker and part number are so ancient that I don't even get a
>>>> Googlewhack so could anybody suggest a modern day replacement? This
>>>> one is about 18mm diameter although since it is clipped to a flat
>>>> surface anything about that size will do. I'm guessing that the
>>>> temperature at which it switches off will be around 90-95deg C since
>>>> it's a coffee percolator not a kettle but any advice about a suitable
>>>> replacement would be gratefully received.
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Nick
>>>>
>>>
>>> My parents had one. Made horrible coffee.
>>
>> Correlation is not necessarily causation :-)
>>
>> IMO the coffee I make/made in it is no worse than that I make in my
>> filter > jug coffee maker though the simple camping cloth
>> filter-on-a-ring probably beats both of them but a)requires human
>> attention during the process and b)is messier to clean up afterwards.
>>
>> For something nicer I can choose one of two different types of
>> espresso maker or a French press but what I choose to use depends on
>> the mood I'm in and which variety of coffee I have or haven't run out
>> of.
>>
>>> Is it worth preserving? They
>>> must have all disappeared for a reason?.
>>>
>> Superceded by flashier kitchen gadgets, I suppose. If I can cheaply
>> and easily make it work again it's worth it to me.
>>
>> Any thoughts about the temperature setting for the thermal cut out?
>> Does anybody know what temperatures are set by other, more modern
>> coffee makers?
>>
>> Nick
>>
>
>I can’t see how it can function unless it gets up to at least the boiling
>point of water but I could be wrong. I suspect the thermal cut out is just
>there in case it boils dry or gets turned on with no water in it, in which
>case a replacement that works at 150°C should probably be safe enough.
>This might be bollocks though. ;-)
>
>You could always try putting the “guts” of the percolator into a pan of
>water on your stove and see what temperature it needs to achieve to start
>bubbling over.
>
I think it's down to the relative positions of the two heating coils
and of the thermal cutout. I think one heater is there to keep the
coffee warm and works like the hotplate on filter machines; the other
is a more powerful heater, closer to the centre, and the water at the
base of the stem is made to boil and the steam created by this action
forces increasingly warmer water up through the tube and down through
the grounds until the whole reservoir of water reaches a temperature
that switches the main coil off. Having released the old thermal
cutout, I can see that it's not fixed directly to the hot metal parts
but to a thin, springy metal tab which IS attached to the hot metal
parts. So there's a temperature gradient between the mass of the
heater and the sensor.

It's a very clever and carefully engineered piece of kit which brings
me back to your earlier point about why they stopped making it?
Perhaps because it needed to be carefully engineered and the trend has
been towards mass production by less skilled or unskilled workers.

It reminds me of the Sunbeam Radiant Control Toaster which has no
timers and no levers but - thanks to clever application of science and
engineering - lowers the bread into the machine by itself, produces
toast regardless of the size, shape or starting temperature of that
bread and raises the toast up again when it's done. Some have said
that it was the perfect toaster but they stopped making it years ago.
There's no way you could build that with unskilled labour nowadays -
although with robots and AI, maybe they actually could? I wonder???

Nick

On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 14:20:57 +0000, Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com>
wrote:

>This percolator (Model CP2) stopped working yesterday and I have
>traced the fault to the thermal cutout which seems to have stuck in
>the cut-out mode.

Okay, since you had no luck on searching for the part number...

I had no luck in a quick search of spare parts for other percolators - I'd hoped
to get a temp spec form on of those, assuming the temp is a function of water
and coffee and not the specific model. (My percolator has a spirit lamp, and
makes fascinating coffee that tasted pretty bad.)

Is the part borked, or can it be unstuck for one last drop into hot water, to
see at which temperature it clicks?

Would you be comfortable bridging it, percolating, and then seeing at which
temperature you'd say "okay, this is hotter than it's ever, been, it's shouldn't
be spewing a geyser of coffee", and reading off the liquid temp and going a bit
lower?

Or maybe assume "205" is 205 °F which 96.1 °C -- which seems a little high if
it's there to stop the coffee being percolated. (Water boils at a lower
temperature in some leftpondian mountain states; possibly irrelevant to a UK
percolator...) And the stick in an 85 °C model and see what happens. A KSD 301
is about 0,7 Euros here, not a big loss if too low a temp.

Thomas Prufer

On 16/03/2024 18:28, Nick Odell wrote:

> It's a very clever and carefully engineered piece of kit which brings
> me back to your earlier point about why they stopped making it?
> Perhaps because it needed to be carefully engineered and the trend has
> been towards mass production by less skilled or unskilled workers.

It all depends by what you mean by unskilled. The assembly worker may
not have the skill to design the item nor have the skill to design the
engineer process to manufacture individual parts. He only needs the
skill to assemble that item, and often only a small part of the final
product.

Probably before the time of Henry Ford and his production lines
"unskilled" workers have been used to mass produce fairly sophisticated
consumer items.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 17/03/2024 07:31, alan_m wrote:
> On 16/03/2024 18:28, Nick Odell wrote:
>
>> It's a very clever and carefully engineered piece of kit which brings
>> me back to your earlier point about why they stopped making it?
>> Perhaps because it needed to be carefully engineered and the trend has
>> been towards mass production by less skilled or unskilled workers.
>
> It all depends by what you mean by unskilled. The assembly worker may
> not have the skill to design the item nor have the skill to design the
> engineer process to manufacture individual parts. He only needs the
> skill to assemble that item, and often only a small part of the final
> product.
>
> Probably before the time of Henry Ford and his production lines
> "unskilled" workers have been used to mass produce fairly sophisticated
> consumer items.
>
>
The rise in mass media has led to the phenomenon of spending all the
money on marketing, and none whatsoever on the actual product.

Unskilled labour today means a robot. Or china.

--
When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over
the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that
authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.

Frédéric Bastiat

On Sun, 17 Mar 2024 08:08:56 +0100, Thomas Prufer
<prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:

>On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 14:20:57 +0000, Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com>
>wrote:
>
>>This percolator (Model CP2) stopped working yesterday and I have
>>traced the fault to the thermal cutout which seems to have stuck in
>>the cut-out mode.
>
>Okay, since you had no luck on searching for the part number...
>
>I had no luck in a quick search of spare parts for other percolators - I'd hoped
>to get a temp spec form on of those, assuming the temp is a function of water
>and coffee and not the specific model. (My percolator has a spirit lamp, and
>makes fascinating coffee that tasted pretty bad.)
>
>Is the part borked, or can it be unstuck for one last drop into hot water, to
>see at which temperature it clicks?
>
I've knocked it about a bit but I can't persuade its contacts to close
again

>Would you be comfortable bridging it, percolating, and then seeing at which
>temperature you'd say "okay, this is hotter than it's ever, been, it's shouldn't
>be spewing a geyser of coffee", and reading off the liquid temp and going a bit
>lower?
>
>Or maybe assume "205" is 205 °F which 96.1 °C -- which seems a little high if
>it's there to stop the coffee being percolated. (Water boils at a lower
>temperature in some leftpondian mountain states; possibly irrelevant to a UK
>percolator...) And the stick in an 85 °C model and see what happens. A KSD 301
>is about 0,7 Euros here, not a big loss if too low a temp.
>
I think we are heading along the same track here: although I had
earlier bypassed the thermostat just to check that the heater coil was
working I thought that the holding temperature of the coffee is
probably key to the operation so I filled the jug with hot water,
plugged it in so that the warming coil could do its stuff on its own
and waited for the temperature to normalise. Which, according to my
temperature probe, happened at just under 70°C. A quick dash to empty
the jug and measure the temperature on the thermostat tag and that
came in at just under 65°C.

From the data sheets I've unearthed from different makers of the KSD
301 types, the reset temperature is typically 10-15°C lower than the
opening temperature so I'm thinking something with an opening
temperature of around 70°C ought to do it. But since they are so
cheap, I'm going to buy one higher and one lower, just in case.

Thanks

Nick

Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Mar 2024 08:08:56 +0100, Thomas Prufer
> <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 14:20:57 +0000, Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> This percolator (Model CP2) stopped working yesterday and I have
>>> traced the fault to the thermal cutout which seems to have stuck in
>>> the cut-out mode.
>>
>> Okay, since you had no luck on searching for the part number...
>>
>> I had no luck in a quick search of spare parts for other percolators - I'd hoped
>> to get a temp spec form on of those, assuming the temp is a function of water
>> and coffee and not the specific model. (My percolator has a spirit lamp, and
>> makes fascinating coffee that tasted pretty bad.)
>>
>> Is the part borked, or can it be unstuck for one last drop into hot water, to
>> see at which temperature it clicks?
>>
> I've knocked it about a bit but I can't persuade its contacts to close
> again
>
>> Would you be comfortable bridging it, percolating, and then seeing at which
>> temperature you'd say "okay, this is hotter than it's ever, been, it's shouldn't
>> be spewing a geyser of coffee", and reading off the liquid temp and going a bit
>> lower?
>>
>> Or maybe assume "205" is 205 °F which 96.1 °C -- which seems a little high if
>> it's there to stop the coffee being percolated. (Water boils at a lower
>> temperature in some leftpondian mountain states; possibly irrelevant to a UK
>> percolator...) And the stick in an 85 °C model and see what happens. A KSD 301
>> is about 0,7 Euros here, not a big loss if too low a temp.
>>
> I think we are heading along the same track here: although I had
> earlier bypassed the thermostat just to check that the heater coil was
> working I thought that the holding temperature of the coffee is
> probably key to the operation so I filled the jug with hot water,
> plugged it in so that the warming coil could do its stuff on its own
> and waited for the temperature to normalise. Which, according to my
> temperature probe, happened at just under 70°C. A quick dash to empty
> the jug and measure the temperature on the thermostat tag and that
> came in at just under 65°C.
>
> From the data sheets I've unearthed from different makers of the KSD
> 301 types, the reset temperature is typically 10-15°C lower than the
> opening temperature so I'm thinking something with an opening
> temperature of around 70°C ought to do it. But since they are so
> cheap, I'm going to buy one higher and one lower, just in case.
>
> Thanks
>
> Nick
>

I still don’t see how it’s ever gonna percolate if it doesn’t go up to
boiling point. If the stat opens at anything less than 100°C you’re gonna
be watching a percolator full of warm water forever.

Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 17-Mar-24 7:31, alan_m wrote:
> On 16/03/2024 18:28, Nick Odell wrote:
>
>> It's a very clever and carefully engineered piece of kit which brings
>> me back to your earlier point about why they stopped making it?
>> Perhaps because it needed to be carefully engineered and the trend has
>> been towards mass production by less skilled or unskilled workers.
>
> It all depends by what you mean by unskilled. The assembly worker may
> not have the skill to design the item nor have the skill to design the
> engineer process to manufacture individual parts. He only needs the
> skill to assemble that item, and often only a small part of the final
> product.
>
> Probably before the time of Henry Ford and his production lines
> "unskilled" workers have been used to mass produce fairly sophisticated
> consumer items.

Not consumer items, but the Royal Navy and the manufacture of pulley
blocks is the usual example.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 17/03/2024 18:33, Tim+ wrote:

>
> I still don’t see how it’s ever gonna percolate if it doesn’t go up to
> boiling point. If the stat opens at anything less than 100°C you’re gonna
> be watching a percolator full of warm water forever.

The boiling water only needs to be localised at the bottom of the
central tube. This boiling water immediately travels up the tube into
the coffee grounds. It then filters back to gradually warm the bulk of
the water. By the time the average temperature of this bulk has reached,
say, 70C enough boiling water has travelled up the narrow central tube
to brew the coffee.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 3/15/2024 5:00 PM, Nick Odell wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 16:36:44 +0100, Matthias Czech
> <matthias.czech@t-online.de> wrote:
>
>> Am 15.03.2024 um 15:20 schrieb Nick Odell:
>>> I know, nothing seems to last any more, does it?
>>>
>>> This percolator (Model CP2) stopped working yesterday and I have
>>> traced the fault to the thermal cutout which seems to have stuck in
>>> the cut-out mode. The markings on the device are 430-671 STEMCO L205
>>> but the maker and part number are so ancient that I don't even get a
>>> Googlewhack so could anybody suggest a modern day replacement? This
>>> one is about 18mm diameter although since it is clipped to a flat
>>> surface anything about that size will do. I'm guessing that the
>>> temperature at which it switches off will be around 90-95deg C since
>>> it's a coffee percolator not a kettle but any advice about a suitable
>>> replacement would be gratefully received.
>>>
>> 18mm? Hm.
>> Search for 'ksd 301' resp. 'ksd301'
>> Does it look anway near that?
>> If size and shape fit, choose one with the correct
>> -Voltage
>> -Amperage
>> -Switching Temperature
>> -Switching mode: Normally on vs. Normally on
>>
>> They are cheap, approx. 1Pound + shipping
>> Even available on Amazon (but more expensive there)
>
> Yes, that's the type of thing - thanks.
>
> Thinking about it, I wonder if the cut-off temperate might be rather
> lower than 90? There are two heating coils at the base of the jug, one
> which goes through the cut off switch and one that doesn't so I
> presume one is the equivalent of the hotplate on a filter machine and
> the other is the main heater. So if the cut off temperature were to be
> about 90deg, every time the stored coffee droped below 90 the main
> heater would kick in, wouldn't it? But if the thermostat were to be
> set lower then the steady temperature of the stored coffee would be
> maintained by the second coil. The trick must be to know what is the
> optimum switch-off temperature which allows the coffee to brew but
> doesn't keep switching on the main heater when the coffee is waiting
> in the pot. I have no idea what that optimum temperature should be -
> any ideas?
>
> Nick
>

https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/54676/Not+heating+correctly+-+incomplete+perk

"You should buy (NC) Normally Closed discs that
open at approximately 90 degrees C (194 degrees F)."

I guess the other part of it, is where the sensor is located.
If sensing that temperature, that's likely sensing the water
temperature above the stem-base. You would think the base plate
would regularly get hotter than that.

On this one, the trick is, the heater is a "pot" underneath the
base, in the center of the percolator base. The thermostatic disc is placed right
over on the edge of the pot base, as far away from the heating chamber
as they could get it. That's to emulate sensing the water temperature
of the upper section of the pot, versus sensing the temperature in
the heater pot.

"farberware coffee maker percolator thermostat fix repair"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ysj7yj7Dl8E

Paul

On Mon, 18 Mar 2024 00:35:50 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
wrote:

>On 3/15/2024 5:00 PM, Nick Odell wrote:
>> On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 16:36:44 +0100, Matthias Czech
>> <matthias.czech@t-online.de> wrote:
>>
>>> Am 15.03.2024 um 15:20 schrieb Nick Odell:
>>>> I know, nothing seems to last any more, does it?
>>>>
>>>> This percolator (Model CP2) stopped working yesterday and I have
>>>> traced the fault to the thermal cutout which seems to have stuck in
>>>> the cut-out mode. The markings on the device are 430-671 STEMCO L205
>>>> but the maker and part number are so ancient that I don't even get a
>>>> Googlewhack so could anybody suggest a modern day replacement? This
>>>> one is about 18mm diameter although since it is clipped to a flat
>>>> surface anything about that size will do. I'm guessing that the
>>>> temperature at which it switches off will be around 90-95deg C since
>>>> it's a coffee percolator not a kettle but any advice about a suitable
>>>> replacement would be gratefully received.
>>>>
>>> 18mm? Hm.
>>> Search for 'ksd 301' resp. 'ksd301'
>>> Does it look anway near that?
>>> If size and shape fit, choose one with the correct
>>> -Voltage
>>> -Amperage
>>> -Switching Temperature
>>> -Switching mode: Normally on vs. Normally on
>>>
>>> They are cheap, approx. 1Pound + shipping
>>> Even available on Amazon (but more expensive there)
>>
>> Yes, that's the type of thing - thanks.
>>
>> Thinking about it, I wonder if the cut-off temperate might be rather
>> lower than 90? There are two heating coils at the base of the jug, one
>> which goes through the cut off switch and one that doesn't so I
>> presume one is the equivalent of the hotplate on a filter machine and
>> the other is the main heater. So if the cut off temperature were to be
>> about 90deg, every time the stored coffee droped below 90 the main
>> heater would kick in, wouldn't it? But if the thermostat were to be
>> set lower then the steady temperature of the stored coffee would be
>> maintained by the second coil. The trick must be to know what is the
>> optimum switch-off temperature which allows the coffee to brew but
>> doesn't keep switching on the main heater when the coffee is waiting
>> in the pot. I have no idea what that optimum temperature should be -
>> any ideas?
>>
>> Nick
>>
>
>https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/54676/Not+heating+correctly+-+incomplete+perk
>
> "You should buy (NC) Normally Closed discs that
> open at approximately 90 degrees C (194 degrees F)."
>
>I guess the other part of it, is where the sensor is located.
>If sensing that temperature, that's likely sensing the water
>temperature above the stem-base. You would think the base plate
>would regularly get hotter than that.
>
>On this one, the trick is, the heater is a "pot" underneath the
>base, in the center of the percolator base. The thermostatic disc is placed right
>over on the edge of the pot base, as far away from the heating chamber
>as they could get it. That's to emulate sensing the water temperature
>of the upper section of the pot, versus sensing the temperature in
>the heater pot.
>
>"farberware coffee maker percolator thermostat fix repair"
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ysj7yj7Dl8E
>
Thanks for those.

Well, I ordered all my bits last night so we will see what happens
later. If the thermostats I've bought which are ranging around 70 turn
out to be set too low, I'll try buying more with a higher operating
temperature.

Nick

On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 15:42:39 GMT, The Nomad <nomad@the.desert.invalid>
wrote:

>On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 14:20:57 +0000, Nick Odell
><nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote:
>
>> I know, nothing seems to last any more, does it?
>>
>> This percolator (Model CP2) stopped working yesterday and I have traced
>> the fault to the thermal cutout which seems to have stuck in the cut-out
>> mode. The markings on the device are 430-671 STEMCO L205 but the maker
>> and part number are so ancient that I don't even get a Googlewhack so
>> could anybody suggest a modern day replacement? This one is about 18mm
>> diameter although since it is clipped to a flat surface anything about
>> that size will do. I'm guessing that the temperature at which it
>> switches off will be around 90-95deg C since it's a coffee percolator
>> not a kettle but any advice about a suitable replacement would be
>> gratefully received.
>>
>> Many thanks,
>>
>> Nick
>
>Nick
>
>I found this ... <https://www.electronicsurplus.com/stemco-402-396-l200h7-
>thermal-cutoff-nc-l200-170-degree>
>
>Wrong temp but ...
>
>Avpx
>
>p.s. 'ow's tricks?

I'm back in Dear Old Blighty again, thanks, and apart from dealing
with the garden shed which collapsed in the winter gales and similar
weather-related stuff I'm wrestling with this old Russell Hobbs. Last
year I bought a Technivorm Moccamaster Filter Coffee Maker which was
made by hand (almost[1]) in the Netherlands and is now installed in
the kitchen in Argentina. I'm sorely tempted to buy another one for
over here but for the time being I think I probably ought to just make
do with what I've already got, for now.

And you?

Nick
[1]https://youtu.be/qY9LU9uxhNo Note the robot in the middle of the
factory floor

On 15/03/2024 14:20, Nick Odell wrote:
> I know, nothing seems to last any more, does it?
>
> This percolator (Model CP2) stopped working yesterday and I have
> traced the fault to the thermal cutout which seems to have stuck in
> the cut-out mode. The markings on the device are 430-671 STEMCO L205
> but the maker and part number are so ancient that I don't even get a
> Googlewhack so could anybody suggest a modern day replacement? This
> one is about 18mm diameter although since it is clipped to a flat
> surface anything about that size will do. I'm guessing that the
> temperature at which it switches off will be around 90-95deg C since
> it's a coffee percolator not a kettle but any advice about a suitable
> replacement would be gratefully received.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Nick

The 205 is likely Fahrenheit, so 96'C.

--
Cheers
Clive