We have always had issues with one of our toilets l. The cistern is mains
fed, and I feel that it would be less problematic if it was fed with a
lower pressure feed….

The obvious solution would be to connect it to the cold water storage tank…

However, easier would be to fit a PRV inline…

But, would I just be getting into another can of worms?

Its in a high pressure hard water “area”.

On 14/03/2024 17:14, Chris Holmes wrote:
> We have always had issues with one of our toilets l. The cistern is mains
> fed, and I feel that it would be less problematic if it was fed with a
> lower pressure feed….
>
> The obvious solution would be to connect it to the cold water storage tank…
>
> However, easier would be to fit a PRV inline…
>
> But, would I just be getting into another can of worms?
>
> Its in a high pressure hard water “area”.

Assuming you've got an isolation valve fitted, just partly close it
until you've got the flow rate you're happy with. We're in hard - very
hard water area.

--

Jeff

Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 14/03/2024 17:14, Chris Holmes wrote:
>> We have always had issues with one of our toilets l. The cistern is mains
>> fed, and I feel that it would be less problematic if it was fed with a
>> lower pressure feed….
>>
>> The obvious solution would be to connect it to the cold water storage tank…
>>
>> However, easier would be to fit a PRV inline…
>>
>> But, would I just be getting into another can of worms?
>>
>> Its in a high pressure hard water “area”.
>
> Assuming you've got an isolation valve fitted, just partly close it
> until you've got the flow rate you're happy with. We're in hard - very
> hard water area.
>

It rather depends if pressure is the problem or flow. Partially closing the
isolation valve won’t affect pressure.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 14/03/2024 21:19, Tim+ wrote:
> Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 14/03/2024 17:14, Chris Holmes wrote:
>>> We have always had issues with one of our toilets l. The cistern is mains
>>> fed, and I feel that it would be less problematic if it was fed with a
>>> lower pressure feed….
>>>
>>> The obvious solution would be to connect it to the cold water storage tank…
>>>
>>> However, easier would be to fit a PRV inline…
>>>
>>> But, would I just be getting into another can of worms?
>>>
>>> Its in a high pressure hard water “area”.
>>
>> Assuming you've got an isolation valve fitted, just partly close it
>> until you've got the flow rate you're happy with. We're in hard - very
>> hard water area.
>>
>
> It rather depends if pressure is the problem or flow. Partially closing the
> isolation valve won’t affect pressure.

+1 and also make the flow noticeably more noisy.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 14/03/2024 17:14, Chris Holmes wrote:
> We have always had issues with one of our toilets l. The cistern is mains
> fed, and I feel that it would be less problematic if it was fed with a
> lower pressure feed….
>
> The obvious solution would be to connect it to the cold water storage tank…
>
> However, easier would be to fit a PRV inline…
>
> But, would I just be getting into another can of worms?
>
> Its in a high pressure hard water “area”.

In my limited experience I have not had any problems with any of mine -
the one on my unvented cylinder has been fine over 12 years.

(I did find a "stuck" one on a neighbours shower once though - the
original installer had used one to try and balance a cold mains feed
with a gravity hot one - it did not work that well, and lost the plot
completely when they switched to a combi for hot water. One day some
years later the lady of the house was complaining that their shower had
never worked properly. So I thought I would investigate. I found and
excised said PRV and the shower worked ok after)

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 14/03/2024 21:19, Tim+ wrote:
> Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 14/03/2024 17:14, Chris Holmes wrote:
>>> We have always had issues with one of our toilets l. The cistern is mains
>>> fed, and I feel that it would be less problematic if it was fed with a
>>> lower pressure feed….
>>>
>>> The obvious solution would be to connect it to the cold water storage tank…
>>>
>>> However, easier would be to fit a PRV inline…
>>>
>>> But, would I just be getting into another can of worms?
>>>
>>> Its in a high pressure hard water “area”.
>>
>> Assuming you've got an isolation valve fitted, just partly close it
>> until you've got the flow rate you're happy with. We're in hard - very
>> hard water area.
>>
>
> It rather depends if pressure is the problem or flow. Partially closing the
> isolation valve won’t affect pressure.

It won't affect static pressure, but it may affect dynamic pressure. A
restriction that reduces the flow into an open-ended pipe (or one with a
partially open valve) may not have enough flow to cause sufficient
back-pressure to raise the pressure back up after the restriction.

SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
> On 14/03/2024 21:19, Tim+ wrote:
>> Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 14/03/2024 17:14, Chris Holmes wrote:
>>>> We have always had issues with one of our toilets l. The cistern is mains
>>>> fed, and I feel that it would be less problematic if it was fed with a
>>>> lower pressure feed….
>>>>
>>>> The obvious solution would be to connect it to the cold water storage tank…
>>>>
>>>> However, easier would be to fit a PRV inline…
>>>>
>>>> But, would I just be getting into another can of worms?
>>>>
>>>> Its in a high pressure hard water “area”.
>>>
>>> Assuming you've got an isolation valve fitted, just partly close it
>>> until you've got the flow rate you're happy with. We're in hard - very
>>> hard water area.
>>>
>>
>> It rather depends if pressure is the problem or flow. Partially closing the
>> isolation valve won’t affect pressure.
>
> It won't affect static pressure, but it may affect dynamic pressure. A
> restriction that reduces the flow into an open-ended pipe (or one with a
> partially open valve) may not have enough flow to cause sufficient
> back-pressure to raise the pressure back up after the restriction.
>
>

Open ended pipe? We’re talking about a toilet cistern valve. At some point
it will close.

We’ve not been told what the actual problem is so it’s a bit tricky to
speculate on what the best cure might be.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 15/03/2024 08:04, Tim+ wrote:
> SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
>> On 14/03/2024 21:19, Tim+ wrote:
>>> Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 14/03/2024 17:14, Chris Holmes wrote:
>>>>> We have always had issues with one of our toilets l. The cistern is mains
>>>>> fed, and I feel that it would be less problematic if it was fed with a
>>>>> lower pressure feed….
>>>>>
>>>>> The obvious solution would be to connect it to the cold water storage tank…
>>>>>
>>>>> However, easier would be to fit a PRV inline…
>>>>>
>>>>> But, would I just be getting into another can of worms?
>>>>>
>>>>> Its in a high pressure hard water “area”.
>>>>
>>>> Assuming you've got an isolation valve fitted, just partly close it
>>>> until you've got the flow rate you're happy with. We're in hard - very
>>>> hard water area.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It rather depends if pressure is the problem or flow. Partially closing the
>>> isolation valve won’t affect pressure.
>>
>> It won't affect static pressure, but it may affect dynamic pressure. A
>> restriction that reduces the flow into an open-ended pipe (or one with a
>> partially open valve) may not have enough flow to cause sufficient
>> back-pressure to raise the pressure back up after the restriction.
>>
>>
>
> Open ended pipe? We’re talking about a toilet cistern valve. At some point
> it will close.
>
> We’ve not been told what the actual problem is so it’s a bit tricky to
> speculate on what the best cure might be.

Agreed, but until it closes, it is open ended. Certainly one of our
toilets tends to be noisy while filling, but with the isolator closed a
bit, it is almost silent, except for the last couple of seconds - which
are not loud enough or long enough for us to worry about.

On 14/03/2024 17:14, Chris Holmes wrote:
> We have always had issues with one of our toilets l. The cistern is mains
> fed, and I feel that it would be less problematic if it was fed with a
> lower pressure feed….
>
> The obvious solution would be to connect it to the cold water storage tank…
>
> However, easier would be to fit a PRV inline…
>
> But, would I just be getting into another can of worms?
>
> Its in a high pressure hard water “area”.
>

Does the cistern fill valve have the correct insert for high pressure?

eg -
https://www.screwfix.com/p/flomasta-ball-valve-washer-5-pack/579fy

--
Regards
wasbit

Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
> Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 14/03/2024 17:14, Chris Holmes wrote:
>>> We have always had issues with one of our toilets l. The cistern is mains
>>> fed, and I feel that it would be less problematic if it was fed with a
>>> lower pressure feed….
>>>
>>> The obvious solution would be to connect it to the cold water storage tank…
>>>
>>> However, easier would be to fit a PRV inline…
>>>
>>> But, would I just be getting into another can of worms?
>>>
>>> Its in a high pressure hard water “area”.
>>
>> Assuming you've got an isolation valve fitted, just partly close it
>> until you've got the flow rate you're happy with. We're in hard - very
>> hard water area.
>>
>
> It rather depends if pressure is the problem or flow. Partially closing the
> isolation valve won’t affect pressure.
>
> Tim
>

My feeling is that pressure is the issue (literally).

The pipe that enters the bottom of the cistern has a slight seepage. I was
thinking this was to do with the connection (“Tap Connector”? to the bottom
of the (plastic) valve unit.

It is very difficult to work out whether the seepage is from below (high
pressure) and coming up the threads.

Or as I now suspect it is the joint between the valve and the (ceramic)
cistern.

I will spend some time this weekend trying to fix a suspected valve /
cistern leak and see if that cures it.

Chris Holmes <chrispvholmes@gmail.com> wrote:
<Snip>

I backed off the nut that secures the valve to the cistern and wound some
soft string and vaseline round the “threaded shaft” and tightened the not
as much as I dared.

For belt and braces I put some Plumbers Mait (which I think is just a trade
name for linseed oil putty) over the joint. But bits of it are falling
down. Perhaps the putty is too “wet”. I think my father used to roll it
in newspaper if that was the case.

Does that sound right?

On 16/03/2024 08:33, Chris Holmes wrote:
> Chris Holmes <chrispvholmes@gmail.com> wrote:
> <Snip>
>
> I backed off the nut that secures the valve to the cistern and wound some
> soft string and vaseline round the “threaded shaft” and tightened the not
> as much as I dared.
>
> For belt and braces I put some Plumbers Mait (which I think is just a trade
> name for linseed oil putty) over the joint. But bits of it are falling
> down. Perhaps the putty is too “wet”. I think my father used to roll it
> in newspaper if that was the case.
>
> Does that sound right?
>
>

It's more likely that its the rubber washer inside the cistern that
stops the water leaking. Applying anything to the thread is unlikely
to do anything on this type of connection.

In my experience there is often a problem with the plastic/nylon nuts
used to tighten the valve (or taps)in place, especially if being
tightened for a second time. The nut deforms and as you tighten the nut
it jumps threads and loosens again. I discard plastic/nylon nuts and
replace with brass*
https://www.screwfix.com/p/flomasta-bsp-female-flanged-backnuts-1-2-x-2-pack/66268

*I once purchased a tap which came with brass back nuts. Unfortunately
about 15 years later I discovered that were steel with a brass coloured
coating. The tap had become somewhat loose because the back nut had
rusted through.

--
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