On 17 Jul 2023 13:21, David Wade wrote:
> On 17/07/2023 09:38, Mark Carver wrote:
>> On 17/07/2023 09:35, Woody wrote:
>>> On Mon 17/07/2023 08:20, Chris Green wrote:
>>>> We've had FTTC for five years or so and it has been (still is)
>>>> excellent, we get reliable 60Mb/s down and 20Mb/s up. At the start we
>>>> used to get 80Mb/s down but I guess there's a bit more crosstalk now
>>>> as other users have come on.
>>>>
>>>> Presumably at some time in the next few years we'll have to move to
>>>> FTTP, is there any way to get some sort of prediction of when this
>>>> might be?  I want to have a bit of time to decide on what sort of
>>>> phone service to use and, maybe, add some battery backup to keep a
>>>> connection in the event of a power cut.  We do get power cuts
>>>> occasionally here, recently a whole day off while they trimmed some
>>>> trees near a power line.
>>>>
>>>> If I go to the OpenReach checker site it just says FTTP is not
>>>> available with no indication of when it might be.
>>>>
>>> Says the same for our local exchange, indeed it says that there is no
>>> 21CN available, but Map have been installing FTTP around the exchange
>>> area for several weeks. Is that because SamKnows is not up to date?
>>>
>> Samknows has been sold to Cisco, to forget anything useful now !
>
> If BT are closing most of its Exchanges could it ever be useful in the
> future?

I am on FTTP and the SamKnows dashboard still gives me useful insight
as to service interruptions and variations in performance

We've had FTTC for five years or so and it has been (still is)
excellent, we get reliable 60Mb/s down and 20Mb/s up. At the start we
used to get 80Mb/s down but I guess there's a bit more crosstalk now
as other users have come on.

Presumably at some time in the next few years we'll have to move to
FTTP, is there any way to get some sort of prediction of when this
might be? I want to have a bit of time to decide on what sort of
phone service to use and, maybe, add some battery backup to keep a
connection in the event of a power cut. We do get power cuts
occasionally here, recently a whole day off while they trimmed some
trees near a power line.

If I go to the OpenReach checker site it just says FTTP is not
available with no indication of when it might be.

--
Chris Green
·

On 17/07/2023 08:20, Chris Green wrote:
> We've had FTTC for five years or so and it has been (still is)
> excellent, we get reliable 60Mb/s down and 20Mb/s up. At the start we
> used to get 80Mb/s down but I guess there's a bit more crosstalk now
> as other users have come on.
>
> Presumably at some time in the next few years we'll have to move to
> FTTP, is there any way to get some sort of prediction of when this
> might be? I want to have a bit of time to decide on what sort of
> phone service to use and, maybe, add some battery backup to keep a
> connection in the event of a power cut. We do get power cuts
> occasionally here, recently a whole day off while they trimmed some
> trees near a power line.
>
> If I go to the OpenReach checker site it just says FTTP is not
> available with no indication of when it might be.
>
Chris,

Firstly moving to FTTP is not a requirement and VOIP and FTTP are
separate projects within BT/Openreach. BT were moving people with FTTC
to VOIP. This is paused (I think latest info I can find is from May) but
they intend to resume doing it.

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2023/07/openreach-list-next-18-uk-areas-for-copper-phone-to-fibre-switch-tranche-13.html

(short https://tinyurl.com/yuvrxhpp )

and I believe they still plan to complete this by September 2025...
.... see also

https://newsroom.bt.com/digital-voice-getting-ready-for-a-customer-led-regional-restart/

... as for Fibre mine was like that, then they plopped a pole with Fibre
outside my house and a couple of weeks later Zen sent an e-mail saying
it was available as I had requested updates from them.

Openreach have a map here:-

https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/where-when-building-ultrafast-full-fibre-broadband

(short version https://tinyurl.com/yc52nvs3 )

which gives more detail, but only Openreach, others may be available.....

Dave

On Mon 17/07/2023 08:20, Chris Green wrote:
> We've had FTTC for five years or so and it has been (still is)
> excellent, we get reliable 60Mb/s down and 20Mb/s up. At the start we
> used to get 80Mb/s down but I guess there's a bit more crosstalk now
> as other users have come on.
>
> Presumably at some time in the next few years we'll have to move to
> FTTP, is there any way to get some sort of prediction of when this
> might be? I want to have a bit of time to decide on what sort of
> phone service to use and, maybe, add some battery backup to keep a
> connection in the event of a power cut. We do get power cuts
> occasionally here, recently a whole day off while they trimmed some
> trees near a power line.
>
> If I go to the OpenReach checker site it just says FTTP is not
> available with no indication of when it might be.
>
Says the same for our local exchange, indeed it says that there is no
21CN available, but Map have been installing FTTP around the exchange
area for several weeks. Is that because SamKnows is not up to date?

On 17/07/2023 09:35, Woody wrote:
> On Mon 17/07/2023 08:20, Chris Green wrote:
>> We've had FTTC for five years or so and it has been (still is)
>> excellent, we get reliable 60Mb/s down and 20Mb/s up. At the start we
>> used to get 80Mb/s down but I guess there's a bit more crosstalk now
>> as other users have come on.
>>
>> Presumably at some time in the next few years we'll have to move to
>> FTTP, is there any way to get some sort of prediction of when this
>> might be?  I want to have a bit of time to decide on what sort of
>> phone service to use and, maybe, add some battery backup to keep a
>> connection in the event of a power cut.  We do get power cuts
>> occasionally here, recently a whole day off while they trimmed some
>> trees near a power line.
>>
>> If I go to the OpenReach checker site it just says FTTP is not
>> available with no indication of when it might be.
>>
> Says the same for our local exchange, indeed it says that there is no
> 21CN available, but Map have been installing FTTP around the exchange
> area for several weeks. Is that because SamKnows is not up to date?
>
Samknows has been sold to Cisco, to forget anything useful now !

On 17/07/2023 09:35, Woody wrote:
> On Mon 17/07/2023 08:20, Chris Green wrote:
>> We've had FTTC for five years or so and it has been (still is)
>> excellent, we get reliable 60Mb/s down and 20Mb/s up. At the start we
>> used to get 80Mb/s down but I guess there's a bit more crosstalk now
>> as other users have come on.
>>
>> Presumably at some time in the next few years we'll have to move to
>> FTTP, is there any way to get some sort of prediction of when this
>> might be?  I want to have a bit of time to decide on what sort of
>> phone service to use and, maybe, add some battery backup to keep a
>> connection in the event of a power cut.  We do get power cuts
>> occasionally here, recently a whole day off while they trimmed some
>> trees near a power line.
>>
>> If I go to the OpenReach checker site it just says FTTP is not
>> available with no indication of when it might be.
>>
> Says the same for our local exchange, indeed it says that there is no
> 21CN available, but Map have been installing FTTP around the exchange
> area for several weeks. Is that because SamKnows is not up to date?
>

Try the map:-

https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/where-when-building-ultrafast-full-fibre-broadband

(short version https://tinyurl.com/yc52nvs3 )

which gives more detail, but only Openreach, others may be available...

Dave

On Mon 17/07/2023 09:33, David Wade wrote:
> On 17/07/2023 08:20, Chris Green wrote:
>> We've had FTTC for five years or so and it has been (still is)
>> excellent, we get reliable 60Mb/s down and 20Mb/s up. At the start we
>> used to get 80Mb/s down but I guess there's a bit more crosstalk now
>> as other users have come on.
>>
>> Presumably at some time in the next few years we'll have to move to
>> FTTP, is there any way to get some sort of prediction of when this
>> might be?  I want to have a bit of time to decide on what sort of
>> phone service to use and, maybe, add some battery backup to keep a
>> connection in the event of a power cut.  We do get power cuts
>> occasionally here, recently a whole day off while they trimmed some
>> trees near a power line.
>>
>> If I go to the OpenReach checker site it just says FTTP is not
>> available with no indication of when it might be.
>>
> Chris,
>
> Firstly moving to FTTP is not a requirement and VOIP and FTTP are
> separate projects within BT/Openreach. BT were moving people with FTTC
> to VOIP. This is paused (I think latest info I can find is from May) but
> they intend to resume doing it.
>
> https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2023/07/openreach-list-next-18-uk-areas-for-copper-phone-to-fibre-switch-tranche-13.html
>
> (short https://tinyurl.com/yuvrxhpp )
>
> and I believe they still plan to complete this by September 2025...
> ... see also
>
> https://newsroom.bt.com/digital-voice-getting-ready-for-a-customer-led-regional-restart/
>
> .. as for Fibre mine was like that, then they plopped a pole with Fibre
> outside my house and a couple of weeks later Zen sent an e-mail saying
> it was available as I had requested updates from them.
>
> Openreach have a map here:-
>
> https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/where-when-building-ultrafast-full-fibre-broadband
>
> (short version https://tinyurl.com/yc52nvs3 )
>
> which gives more detail, but only Openreach, others may be available.....
>

Don't understand why on my exchange they offer FTTC at 62 down and 27
up, but they say that when FTTP arrives it will be 1000 down and 220 up.
That stinks of ongoing contention, given that others (I speak here of
broadband suppliers on CityFibre) are almost all doing reciprocal speeds
at 150 and above. Is this dumb BT-think?

On 17/07/2023 08:20, Chris Green wrote:
> We've had FTTC for five years or so and it has been (still is)
> excellent, we get reliable 60Mb/s down and 20Mb/s up. At the start we
> used to get 80Mb/s down but I guess there's a bit more crosstalk now
> as other users have come on.
>
> Presumably at some time in the next few years we'll have to move to
> FTTP, is there any way to get some sort of prediction of when this
> might be? I want to have a bit of time to decide on what sort of
> phone service to use and, maybe, add some battery backup to keep a
> connection in the event of a power cut. We do get power cuts
> occasionally here, recently a whole day off while they trimmed some
> trees near a power line.
>
> If I go to the OpenReach checker site it just says FTTP is not
> available with no indication of when it might be.
>
If you are getting that sort of speed you will be among the last to go
--
"What do you think about Gay Marriage?"
"I don't."
"Don't what?"
"Think about Gay Marriage."

David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> wrote:
> On 17/07/2023 08:20, Chris Green wrote:
> > We've had FTTC for five years or so and it has been (still is)
> > excellent, we get reliable 60Mb/s down and 20Mb/s up. At the start we
> > used to get 80Mb/s down but I guess there's a bit more crosstalk now
> > as other users have come on.
> >
> > Presumably at some time in the next few years we'll have to move to
> > FTTP, is there any way to get some sort of prediction of when this
> > might be? I want to have a bit of time to decide on what sort of
> > phone service to use and, maybe, add some battery backup to keep a
> > connection in the event of a power cut. We do get power cuts
> > occasionally here, recently a whole day off while they trimmed some
> > trees near a power line.
> >
> > If I go to the OpenReach checker site it just says FTTP is not
> > available with no indication of when it might be.
> >
> Chris,
>
> Firstly moving to FTTP is not a requirement and VOIP and FTTP are
> separate projects within BT/Openreach. BT were moving people with FTTC
> to VOIP. This is paused (I think latest info I can find is from May) but
> they intend to resume doing it.
>
> https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2023/07/openreach-list-next-18-uk-areas-for-copper-phone-to-fibre-switch-tranche-13.html
>
Of course, I hadn't really taken that on board. I guess I should
start planning to move to VOIP now! :-)
>
> (short https://tinyurl.com/yuvrxhpp )
>
> and I believe they still plan to complete this by September 2025...
> ... see also
>
> https://newsroom.bt.com/digital-voice-getting-ready-for-a-customer-led-regional-restart/
>
> .. as for Fibre mine was like that, then they plopped a pole with Fibre
> outside my house and a couple of weeks later Zen sent an e-mail saying
> it was available as I had requested updates from them.
>
> Openreach have a map here:-
>
> https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/where-when-building-ultrafast-full-fibre-broadband
>
> (short version https://tinyurl.com/yc52nvs3 )
>
> which gives more detail, but only Openreach, others may be available.....
>
It says they're working on our exchange so maybe FTTP will be offered
quite soon.

--
Chris Green
·

Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:

>... I want to have a bit of time to decide on what sort of
> phone service to use and, maybe, add some battery backup to keep a
> connection in the event of a power cut.

That is the most serious defect of the new systems, in the event of a
major power cut, how do you report it? The mobile 'phone masts only
have very limited backup and many exchanges don't have large batteries
any more. Emergencies may arise during a power cut or because of it;
this is a disaster situation waiting to happen or to be provoked and
exploited.

The situation is a bit like:

If you find any problems with this website, e-mail the webmaster - but
the problem prevents me from seeing that message.

We have never had a compliaint about disabled access - the steps prevent
any disabled person from coming in to make a complaint.

Why don't you tell him that his after-shave triggers your allergy? - I
can't get near enough to tell him.

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

On 17/07/2023 10:03, Woody wrote:
> On Mon 17/07/2023 09:33, David Wade wrote:
>> On 17/07/2023 08:20, Chris Green wrote:
>>> We've had FTTC for five years or so and it has been (still is)
>>> excellent, we get reliable 60Mb/s down and 20Mb/s up. At the start we
>>> used to get 80Mb/s down but I guess there's a bit more crosstalk now
>>> as other users have come on.
>>>
>>> Presumably at some time in the next few years we'll have to move to
>>> FTTP, is there any way to get some sort of prediction of when this
>>> might be?  I want to have a bit of time to decide on what sort of
>>> phone service to use and, maybe, add some battery backup to keep a
>>> connection in the event of a power cut.  We do get power cuts
>>> occasionally here, recently a whole day off while they trimmed some
>>> trees near a power line.
>>>
>>> If I go to the OpenReach checker site it just says FTTP is not
>>> available with no indication of when it might be.
>>>
>> Chris,
>>
>> Firstly moving to FTTP is not a requirement and VOIP and FTTP are
>> separate projects within BT/Openreach. BT were moving people with FTTC
>> to VOIP. This is paused (I think latest info I can find is from May)
>> but they intend to resume doing it.
>>
>> https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2023/07/openreach-list-next-18-uk-areas-for-copper-phone-to-fibre-switch-tranche-13.html
>>
>> (short https://tinyurl.com/yuvrxhpp )
>>
>> and I believe they still plan to complete this by September 2025...
>> ... see also
>>
>> https://newsroom.bt.com/digital-voice-getting-ready-for-a-customer-led-regional-restart/
>>
>> .. as for Fibre mine was like that, then they plopped a pole with
>> Fibre outside my house and a couple of weeks later Zen sent an e-mail
>> saying it was available as I had requested updates from them.
>>
>> Openreach have a map here:-
>>
>> https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/where-when-building-ultrafast-full-fibre-broadband
>>
>> (short version https://tinyurl.com/yc52nvs3 )
>>
>> which gives more detail, but only Openreach, others may be available.....
>>
>
> Don't understand why on my exchange they offer FTTC at 62 down and 27
> up, but they say that when FTTP arrives it will be 1000 down and 220 up.
> That stinks of ongoing contention, given that others (I speak here of
> broadband suppliers on CityFibre) are almost all doing reciprocal speeds
> at 150 and above. Is this dumb BT-think?
>

Of course its dumb BT-Think, or rather profit maximization. However a
bit of reading seems to indicate it was the older kit they were using
and the newer Nokia will allow symmetric.

The contention ratio is I think 32:1

Dave

On 17/07/2023 10:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 17/07/2023 08:20, Chris Green wrote:
>> We've had FTTC for five years or so and it has been (still is)
>> excellent, we get reliable 60Mb/s down and 20Mb/s up. At the start we
>> used to get 80Mb/s down but I guess there's a bit more crosstalk now
>> as other users have come on.
>>
>> Presumably at some time in the next few years we'll have to move to
>> FTTP, is there any way to get some sort of prediction of when this
>> might be?  I want to have a bit of time to decide on what sort of
>> phone service to use and, maybe, add some battery backup to keep a
>> connection in the event of a power cut.  We do get power cuts
>> occasionally here, recently a whole day off while they trimmed some
>> trees near a power line.
>>
>> If I go to the OpenReach checker site it just says FTTP is not
>> available with no indication of when it might be.
>>
> If you are getting that sort of speed you will be among the last to go

I was getting those speeds, and there is Virgin cable in the road, and
the checker wouldn't give a date, and I thought, "its never going to
arrive" but it did, and I now have Openreach Fibre..

.... note I asked Zen to e-mail when it was available and their e-mail
didn't arrive until a couple of weeks after the checker was showing it
as available...

Dave

On 17/07/2023 11:07, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
>
>> ... I want to have a bit of time to decide on what sort of
>> phone service to use and, maybe, add some battery backup to keep a
>> connection in the event of a power cut.
>
> That is the most serious defect of the new systems, in the event of a
> major power cut, how do you report it? The mobile 'phone masts only
> have very limited backup and many exchanges don't have large batteries
> any more. Emergencies may arise during a power cut or because of it;
> this is a disaster situation waiting to happen or to be provoked and
> exploited.

The fibre is totally passive, and concentrated in a few exchanges, from:-

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2023/06/openreach-updates-on-pilot-for-national-uk-exchange-closures.html

"Openreach currently has around 5,500 UK exchanges, but only c. 1,000 of
these exchanges – the Openreach Handover Points (OHPs)"

and they plan to close the rest.....

...... so for those on pure fibre you need a UPS on the router and ONT
plus a physical phone. Many of the newer routers also offer a DECT base
station function, so any DECT handsets paired with this remain active
until their batteries fail. Mine certainly last long enough to report a
fault.

One of the big issues with the relativity recent power cuts were that
whilst DECT handsets have a reasonably long battery life, the base
station needs power. If the router has battery backup using it as the
base station means there is one less device to worry about...

the FTTC cabinets are supposed to have backup batteries but they don't
seem to last long, so I suspect moving people to FTTP after they have
been VOIP'd will actually improve resilience during a power cut...

>
>
> The situation is a bit like:
>
> If you find any problems with this website, e-mail the webmaster - but
> the problem prevents me from seeing that message.
>
> We have never had a compliaint about disabled access - the steps prevent
> any disabled person from coming in to make a complaint.
>
> Why don't you tell him that his after-shave triggers your allergy? - I
> can't get near enough to tell him.
>
>

Trouble is I think its becoming more like "why should I pay BT for phone
line I never use".

Dave

I've concluded, it's impossible for mortals (such as you and I) to be
able to make sense and work out Openreach's FTTP roll out plans.

In short, I'll happen the day someone turns up at your house to install
it, and not before !

On 17/07/2023 12:35, Mark Carver wrote:
> I've concluded, it's impossible for mortals (such as you and I) to be
> able to make sense and work out Openreach's FTTP roll out plans.
>
> In short, I'll happen the day someone turns up at your house to install
> it, and not before !
>

I think not. In my case it was simple. Lots of vans and diggers, asked
what it was, told it was fibre, checked with checkers and they said 'not
available', fiddled around a bit more and then it WAS available. So
ordered it and it was installed.

--
“The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to
fill the world with fools.”

Herbert Spencer

On 17/07/2023 09:38, Mark Carver wrote:
> On 17/07/2023 09:35, Woody wrote:
>> On Mon 17/07/2023 08:20, Chris Green wrote:
>>> We've had FTTC for five years or so and it has been (still is)
>>> excellent, we get reliable 60Mb/s down and 20Mb/s up. At the start we
>>> used to get 80Mb/s down but I guess there's a bit more crosstalk now
>>> as other users have come on.
>>>
>>> Presumably at some time in the next few years we'll have to move to
>>> FTTP, is there any way to get some sort of prediction of when this
>>> might be?  I want to have a bit of time to decide on what sort of
>>> phone service to use and, maybe, add some battery backup to keep a
>>> connection in the event of a power cut.  We do get power cuts
>>> occasionally here, recently a whole day off while they trimmed some
>>> trees near a power line.
>>>
>>> If I go to the OpenReach checker site it just says FTTP is not
>>> available with no indication of when it might be.
>>>
>> Says the same for our local exchange, indeed it says that there is no
>> 21CN available, but Map have been installing FTTP around the exchange
>> area for several weeks. Is that because SamKnows is not up to date?
>>
> Samknows has been sold to Cisco, to forget anything useful now !

If BT are closing most of its Exchanges could it ever be useful in the
future?

Dave

On 17/07/2023 13:21, David Wade wrote:
> On 17/07/2023 09:38, Mark Carver wrote:
>> On 17/07/2023 09:35, Woody wrote:
>>> On Mon 17/07/2023 08:20, Chris Green wrote:
>>>> We've had FTTC for five years or so and it has been (still is)
>>>> excellent, we get reliable 60Mb/s down and 20Mb/s up. At the start we
>>>> used to get 80Mb/s down but I guess there's a bit more crosstalk now
>>>> as other users have come on.
>>>>
>>>> Presumably at some time in the next few years we'll have to move to
>>>> FTTP, is there any way to get some sort of prediction of when this
>>>> might be?  I want to have a bit of time to decide on what sort of
>>>> phone service to use and, maybe, add some battery backup to keep a
>>>> connection in the event of a power cut.  We do get power cuts
>>>> occasionally here, recently a whole day off while they trimmed some
>>>> trees near a power line.
>>>>
>>>> If I go to the OpenReach checker site it just says FTTP is not
>>>> available with no indication of when it might be.
>>>>
>>> Says the same for our local exchange, indeed it says that there is no
>>> 21CN available, but Map have been installing FTTP around the exchange
>>> area for several weeks. Is that because SamKnows is not up to date?
>>>
>> Samknows has been sold to Cisco, to forget anything useful now !
>
> If BT are closing most of its Exchanges could it ever be useful in the
> future?
>
> Dave
Quite probably not. The Broadband landscape is massively different from
when that site was set up.

--
“The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false face for the
urge to rule it.”
– H. L. Mencken

On 17/07/2023 12:33, David Wade wrote:
> On 17/07/2023 11:07, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>> Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
>>
>>> ... I want to have a bit of time to decide on what sort of
>>> phone service to use and, maybe, add some battery backup to keep a
>>> connection in the event of a power cut.
>>
>> That is the most serious defect of the new systems, in the event of a
>> major power cut, how do you report it?  The mobile 'phone masts only
>> have very limited backup and many exchanges don't have large batteries
>> any more.  Emergencies may arise during a power cut or because of it;
>> this is a disaster situation waiting to happen or to be provoked and
>> exploited.
>
>
> The fibre is totally passive, and concentrated in a few exchanges, from:-
>
> https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2023/06/openreach-updates-on-pilot-for-national-uk-exchange-closures.html
>
> "Openreach currently has around 5,500 UK exchanges, but only c. 1,000 of
> these exchanges – the Openreach Handover Points (OHPs)"
>
> and they plan to close the rest.....
>
> ..... so for those on pure fibre you need a UPS on the router and ONT
> plus a physical phone. Many of the newer routers also offer a DECT base
> station function, so any DECT handsets paired with this remain active
> until their batteries fail. Mine certainly last long enough to report a
> fault.

I just checked the spec and my DECT handsets have 12 hours of talk time
and 250 hours of standby time with the supplied batteries. Of course
performance degrades, but I have just put new batteries in which have
50% more capacity than the originals, so I think I am OK with these...

>
> One of the big issues with the relativity recent power cuts were that
> whilst DECT handsets have a reasonably long battery life, the base
> station needs power. If the router has battery backup using it as the
> base station means there is one less device to worry about...
>
> the FTTC cabinets are supposed to have backup batteries but they don't
> seem to last long, so I suspect moving people to FTTP after they have
> been VOIP'd will actually improve resilience during a power cut...
>
>>
>>
>> The situation is a bit like:
>>
>> If you find any problems with this website, e-mail the webmaster - but
>> the problem prevents me from seeing that message.
>>
>> We have never had a compliaint about disabled access - the steps prevent
>> any disabled person from coming in to make a complaint.
>>
>> Why don't you tell him that his after-shave triggers your allergy? - I
>> can't get near enough to tell him.
>>
>>
>
> Trouble is I think its becoming more like "why should I pay BT for phone
> line I never use".
>
> Dave

David Wade wrote:

> The contention ratio is I think 32:1

Well, there are up to 32 subscribers sharing one fibre (passive
splitting) but I think the faster speed you pay for the more "slots" you
get.

Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Don't understand why on my exchange they offer FTTC at 62 down and 27
> up, but they say that when FTTP arrives it will be 1000 down and 220 up.
> That stinks of ongoing contention, given that others (I speak here of
> broadband suppliers on CityFibre) are almost all doing reciprocal speeds
> at 150 and above. Is this dumb BT-think?

Openreach are using PON, which is Passive Optical Networking. Effectively
subscribers are connected together optically (I think it's 32 in the current
buildout, although this can be varied). The headend sends data for all 32
together like a firehose, and then they each get a timeslot to send data
back. (It's encrypted so that, while you can hear next door's data, you
can't decrypt it).

Groups of 32 are then assigned a wavelength so that multiple wavelengths can be
sent along a single fibre, with passive splitters to direct the light to the
right group.

By doing this the local network is entirely passive: no cabinets, no
electronics, no power supply needed. This makes a large scale install much
cheaper and more robust, because you can take the fibre back to a regional
switching centre maybe 30 miles away, rather than an exchange or a local
street cabinet.

The downside is that PON is not symmetric because there's one headend
broadcasting to all the subscribers, but only one subscriber per group can
speak in their timeslot. It's a little like DOCSIS on cable in this
respect.

However, being fibre, there's a lot of headroom to go at higher speeds in
future (including segmenting groups for those customers wanting more
timeslots), so this isn't really as much of a limitation as it is on FTTC.

I'm not sure what altnets are doing, but I assume they're putting in local
switching gear which is why their connections are symmetric.

Theo

Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Says the same for our local exchange, indeed it says that there is no
> 21CN available, but Map have been installing FTTP around the exchange
> area for several weeks. Is that because SamKnows is not up to date?

I'm not sure who Map are (they're impossible to search for) but are they by
any chance installing FTTP for a network other than Openreach?

Theo

On Mon 17/07/2023 12:33, David Wade wrote:
> On 17/07/2023 11:07, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>> Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
>>
>>> ... I want to have a bit of time to decide on what sort of
>>> phone service to use and, maybe, add some battery backup to keep a
>>> connection in the event of a power cut.
>>
>> That is the most serious defect of the new systems, in the event of a
>> major power cut, how do you report it?  The mobile 'phone masts only
>> have very limited backup and many exchanges don't have large batteries
>> any more.  Emergencies may arise during a power cut or because of it;
>> this is a disaster situation waiting to happen or to be provoked and
>> exploited.
>
>
> The fibre is totally passive, and concentrated in a few exchanges, from:-
>
> https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2023/06/openreach-updates-on-pilot-for-national-uk-exchange-closures.html
>
> "Openreach currently has around 5,500 UK exchanges, but only c. 1,000 of
> these exchanges – the Openreach Handover Points (OHPs)"
>
> and they plan to close the rest.....
>
> ..... so for those on pure fibre you need a UPS on the router and ONT
> plus a physical phone. Many of the newer routers also offer a DECT base
> station function, so any DECT handsets paired with this remain active
> until their batteries fail. Mine certainly last long enough to report a
> fault.
>
> One of the big issues with the relativity recent power cuts were that
> whilst DECT handsets have a reasonably long battery life, the base
> station needs power. If the router has battery backup using it as the
> base station means there is one less device to worry about...
>
> the FTTC cabinets are supposed to have backup batteries but they don't
> seem to last long, so I suspect moving people to FTTP after they have
> been VOIP'd will actually improve resilience during a power cut...
>

No they don't last long - even that is if they have not been nicked!