Hi all,

I am doing some wiring outside to put some sockets for my outdoor kitchen. The cable will be channeled into a wall and rendered over and then there will be a short exposed section (behind a wall) and then into a cupboard. I have some multi strand rubber cable (HO7RN-F) which I believe is suitable for use outside so was wondering if using this would be ok - ideally within regs. I didn't see why being multi strand Vs single core really matters?

Many thanks in advance

Lee.

leenowell wrote:
> I am doing some wiring outside to put some sockets for my outdoor
> kitchen. The cable will be channeled into a wall and rendered over and
> then there will be a short exposed section (behind a wall) and then into
> a cupboard.  I have some multi strand rubber cable (HO7RN-F) which I
> believe is suitable for use outside so was wondering if using this would
> be ok - ideally within regs. I didn't see why being multi strand Vs
> single core really matters?
No problem with using suitable stranded flex. Not a requirement but it
may help to use ferrules.

On 13/04/2024 16:54, leenowell wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am doing some wiring outside to put some sockets for my outdoor
> kitchen. The cable will be channeled into a wall and rendered over and
> then there will be a short exposed section (behind a wall) and then into
> a cupboard.  I have some multi strand rubber cable (HO7RN-F) which I
> believe is suitable for use outside so was wondering if using this would
> be ok - ideally within regs. I didn't see why being multi strand Vs
> single core really matters?
>
> Many thanks in advance

Nothing stopping you using it if it is of adequate conductor CSA for the
application in question.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

Thanks very much both

On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 01:18:24 +0100, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:

>On 13/04/2024 16:54, leenowell wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I am doing some wiring outside to put some sockets for my outdoor
>> kitchen. The cable will be channeled into a wall and rendered over and
>> then there will be a short exposed section (behind a wall) and then into
>> a cupboard.  I have some multi strand rubber cable (HO7RN-F) which I
>> believe is suitable for use outside so was wondering if using this would
>> be ok - ideally within regs. I didn't see why being multi strand Vs
>> single core really matters?
>>
>> Many thanks in advance
>
>Nothing stopping you using it if it is of adequate conductor CSA for the
>application in question.

Would I be right in assuming that the single core stuff is intended
for fixed instalations where the routing will not often be distrubed,
if ever, whereas the multi-strand (flex) is more for appliances which
need to be moved around on a regular basis? That would seem to make
sense to me. Flex tends to cost more than single core but the current
handling of both (if sized correctly) is the same as will be the
insulation if it's specified for mains voltages. So if the OP's got
his flexible stuff for free, he's good to go I guess.

On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 18:07:40 +0100
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 01:18:24 +0100, John Rumm
> <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
>
> >On 13/04/2024 16:54, leenowell wrote:
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I am doing some wiring outside to put some sockets for my outdoor
> >> kitchen. The cable will be channeled into a wall and rendered over
> >> and then there will be a short exposed section (behind a wall) and
> >> then into a cupboard.  I have some multi strand rubber cable
> >> (HO7RN-F) which I believe is suitable for use outside so was
> >> wondering if using this would be ok - ideally within regs. I
> >> didn't see why being multi strand Vs single core really matters?
> >>
> >> Many thanks in advance
> >
> >Nothing stopping you using it if it is of adequate conductor CSA for
> >the application in question.
>
> Would I be right in assuming that the single core stuff is intended
> for fixed instalations where the routing will not often be distrubed,
> if ever, whereas the multi-strand (flex) is more for appliances which
> need to be moved around on a regular basis? That would seem to make
> sense to me. Flex tends to cost more than single core but the current
> handling of both (if sized correctly) is the same as will be the
> insulation if it's specified for mains voltages. So if the OP's got
> his flexible stuff for free, he's good to go I guess.

Power wiring used to be stranded, though not many strands. Ring mains
used 7/.029, which is roughly equivalent to 2.5mm^2, with lighting
normally 3/.029.

--
Joe

On 14/04/2024 20:23, Joe wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 18:07:40 +0100
> Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 01:18:24 +0100, John Rumm
>> <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
>>
>>> On 13/04/2024 16:54, leenowell wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> I am doing some wiring outside to put some sockets for my outdoor
>>>> kitchen. The cable will be channeled into a wall and rendered over
>>>> and then there will be a short exposed section (behind a wall) and
>>>> then into a cupboard.  I have some multi strand rubber cable
>>>> (HO7RN-F) which I believe is suitable for use outside so was
>>>> wondering if using this would be ok - ideally within regs. I
>>>> didn't see why being multi strand Vs single core really matters?
>>>>
>>>> Many thanks in advance
>>>
>>> Nothing stopping you using it if it is of adequate conductor CSA for
>>> the application in question.
>>
>> Would I be right in assuming that the single core stuff is intended
>> for fixed instalations where the routing will not often be distrubed,
>> if ever, whereas the multi-strand (flex) is more for appliances which
>> need to be moved around on a regular basis? That would seem to make
>> sense to me. Flex tends to cost more than single core but the current
>> handling of both (if sized correctly) is the same as will be the
>> insulation if it's specified for mains voltages. So if the OP's got
>> his flexible stuff for free, he's good to go I guess.
>
> Power wiring used to be stranded, though not many strands. Ring mains
> used 7/.029, which is roughly equivalent to 2.5mm^2, with lighting
> normally 3/.029.
>
The general rule used to be if the cable doesn't move, use the cheaper
solid core.

IIRC armoured cables are stranded...
--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

On 14/04/2024 18:07, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 01:18:24 +0100, John Rumm
> <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
>
>> On 13/04/2024 16:54, leenowell wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I am doing some wiring outside to put some sockets for my outdoor
>>> kitchen. The cable will be channeled into a wall and rendered over and
>>> then there will be a short exposed section (behind a wall) and then into
>>> a cupboard.  I have some multi strand rubber cable (HO7RN-F) which I
>>> believe is suitable for use outside so was wondering if using this would
>>> be ok - ideally within regs. I didn't see why being multi strand Vs
>>> single core really matters?
>>>
>>> Many thanks in advance
>>
>> Nothing stopping you using it if it is of adequate conductor CSA for the
>> application in question.
>
> Would I be right in assuming that the single core stuff is intended
> for fixed instalations where the routing will not often be distrubed,
> if ever, whereas the multi-strand (flex) is more for appliances which
> need to be moved around on a regular basis?

In general, yes. For larger CSA cables even the fixed wiring cable is
stranded (although fewer heavier strands) to keep it workable.

> That would seem to make
> sense to me. Flex tends to cost more than single core but the current
> handling of both (if sized correctly) is the same as will be the
> insulation if it's specified for mains voltages. So if the OP's got
> his flexible stuff for free, he's good to go I guess.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 15 Apr 2024 at 17:16:14 BST, John Rumm wrote:

>> Would I be right in assuming that the single core stuff is intended
>> for fixed instalations where the routing will not often be distrubed,
>> if ever, whereas the multi-strand (flex) is more for appliances which
>> need to be moved around on a regular basis?
>
> In general, yes. For larger CSA cables even the fixed wiring cable is
> stranded (although fewer heavier strands) to keep it workable.

Is there a big difference for, say 10mm2 T&E?

I'm about to put in place the wiring for a shower and it's quite a tortuous
route. I'd bought single strand as it's fixed, but could easily swap it over
for stranded if it's going to be significantly easier to thread.

--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

On 16/04/2024 12:05, RJH wrote:
> On 15 Apr 2024 at 17:16:14 BST, John Rumm wrote:
>
>>> Would I be right in assuming that the single core stuff is intended
>>> for fixed instalations where the routing will not often be distrubed,
>>> if ever, whereas the multi-strand (flex) is more for appliances which
>>> need to be moved around on a regular basis?
>>
>> In general, yes. For larger CSA cables even the fixed wiring cable is
>> stranded (although fewer heavier strands) to keep it workable.
>
> Is there a big difference for, say 10mm2 T&E?
>
> I'm about to put in place the wiring for a shower and it's quite a tortuous
> route. I'd bought single strand as it's fixed, but could easily swap it over
> for stranded if it's going to be significantly easier to thread.

I confess to not seeing single strand 10mm2 cable, I've only seen cable
of that size with what must be 7 strands!

Having to pull the cable through voids and spaces might become a little
difficult!

On 16 Apr 2024 at 20:17:42 BST, Fredxx wrote:

> On 16/04/2024 12:05, RJH wrote:
>> On 15 Apr 2024 at 17:16:14 BST, John Rumm wrote:
>>
>>>> Would I be right in assuming that the single core stuff is intended
>>>> for fixed instalations where the routing will not often be distrubed,
>>>> if ever, whereas the multi-strand (flex) is more for appliances which
>>>> need to be moved around on a regular basis?
>>>
>>> In general, yes. For larger CSA cables even the fixed wiring cable is
>>> stranded (although fewer heavier strands) to keep it workable.
>>
>> Is there a big difference for, say 10mm2 T&E?
>>
>> I'm about to put in place the wiring for a shower and it's quite a tortuous
>> route. I'd bought single strand as it's fixed, but could easily swap it over
>> for stranded if it's going to be significantly easier to thread.
>
> I confess to not seeing single strand 10mm2 cable, I've only seen cable
> of that size with what must be 7 strands!
>
> Having to pull the cable through voids and spaces might become a little
> difficult!

Indeed! The electrician bent my arm a bit - strongly advised 10mm for future
proofing. He didn't mention strands though - I thought one strand for fixed
was the general rule.

it was a bit of a double take lifting the 25m reel - heavy! This is what I've
got:

https://www.toolstation.com/pitacs-twin-earth-cable-6242y-grey/p25574
--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

On 16/04/2024 12:05, RJH wrote:
> On 15 Apr 2024 at 17:16:14 BST, John Rumm wrote:
>
>>> Would I be right in assuming that the single core stuff is intended
>>> for fixed instalations where the routing will not often be distrubed,
>>> if ever, whereas the multi-strand (flex) is more for appliances which
>>> need to be moved around on a regular basis?
>>
>> In general, yes. For larger CSA cables even the fixed wiring cable is
>> stranded (although fewer heavier strands) to keep it workable.
>
> Is there a big difference for, say 10mm2 T&E?

Much depends on what you are doing with it - the main difference is
getting it into and out of enclosures and switches.

For a shower, the shower end and the CU end are usually not too bad, the
ceiling switch can be a pig though :-)

(and the electrician was right - makes sense to use the larger cable -
the cost difference is not that much and both will be a pain to wire. So
you may as well endure it the once and have the option of pretty much
any shower in the future.

> I'm about to put in place the wiring for a shower and it's quite a tortuous
> route. I'd bought single strand as it's fixed, but could easily swap it over
> for stranded if it's going to be significantly easier to thread.
>

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 17-Apr-24 11:05, John Rumm wrote:
> On 16/04/2024 12:05, RJH wrote:
>> On 15 Apr 2024 at 17:16:14 BST, John Rumm wrote:
>>
>>>> Would I be right in assuming that the single core stuff is intended
>>>> for fixed instalations where the routing will not often be distrubed,
>>>> if ever, whereas the multi-strand (flex) is more for appliances which
>>>> need to be moved around on a regular basis?
>>>
>>> In general, yes. For larger CSA cables even the fixed wiring cable is
>>> stranded (although fewer heavier strands) to keep it workable.
>>
>> Is there a big difference for, say 10mm2 T&E?
>
> Much depends on what you are doing with it - the main difference is
> getting it into and out of enclosures and switches.
>
> For a shower, the shower end and the CU end are usually not too bad, the
> ceiling switch can be a pig though :-)

Not kidding. I've replaced both the ceiling switch, and the shower in
this house three times over the years.
Wiring for the showers wasn't a problem. Those ceiling switches were a
different matter altogether.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 17 Apr 2024 at 21:07:01 BST, Sam Plusnet wrote:

> On 17-Apr-24 11:05, John Rumm wrote:
>> On 16/04/2024 12:05, RJH wrote:
>>> On 15 Apr 2024 at 17:16:14 BST, John Rumm wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Would I be right in assuming that the single core stuff is intended
>>>>> for fixed instalations where the routing will not often be distrubed,
>>>>> if ever, whereas the multi-strand (flex) is more for appliances which
>>>>> need to be moved around on a regular basis?
>>>>
>>>> In general, yes. For larger CSA cables even the fixed wiring cable is
>>>> stranded (although fewer heavier strands) to keep it workable.
>>>
>>> Is there a big difference for, say 10mm2 T&E?
>>
>> Much depends on what you are doing with it - the main difference is
>> getting it into and out of enclosures and switches.
>>
>> For a shower, the shower end and the CU end are usually not too bad, the
>> ceiling switch can be a pig though :-)
>
> Not kidding. I've replaced both the ceiling switch, and the shower in
> this house three times over the years.
> Wiring for the showers wasn't a problem. Those ceiling switches were a
> different matter altogether.

I did wonder why the electrician specified a wall mounted isolation switch . .
..

--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK