I'd be grateful if anyone could shed some light on the subject of
fitting a calcium battery to an older vehicle.

I've found conflicting information on this. Some say it is OK but I've
also read that they require a higher charging voltage and cause the
alternator to work harder and can cause damage in older cars.

The car in question is a VW Golf 2008 1.9TDI.

Also I'm wondering if compatibility depends on the alternator rather
than the car. Are newer alternators designed to work OK with calcium
batteries?

On 16/02/2024 11:55, Andrew276 wrote:
> I'd be grateful if anyone could shed some light on the subject of
> fitting a calcium battery to an older vehicle.
>
> I've found conflicting information on this. Some say it is OK but I've
> also read that they require a higher charging voltage and cause the
> alternator to work harder and can cause damage in older cars.
>
> The car in question is a VW Golf 2008 1.9TDI.
>
> Also I'm wondering if compatibility depends on the alternator rather
> than the car. Are newer alternators designed to work OK with calcium
> batteries?

This might be of interest:
https://www.yuasa.co.uk/info/technical/silver-calcium-batteries/

In practice there is very little difference between battery descriptions
and they are all lead-acid technology.

Is there a fitment guide that recommends the intended battery for your car?

On 17/02/2024 12:25, Fredxx wrote:
> On 16/02/2024 11:55, Andrew276 wrote:
>> I'd be grateful if anyone could shed some light on the subject of
>> fitting a calcium battery to an older vehicle.
>>
>> I've found conflicting information on this. Some say it is OK but I've
>> also read that they require a higher charging voltage and cause the
>> alternator to work harder and can cause damage in older cars.
>>
>> The car in question is a VW Golf 2008 1.9TDI.
>>
>> Also I'm wondering if compatibility depends on the alternator rather
>> than the car. Are newer alternators designed to work OK with calcium
>> batteries?
>
> This might be of interest:
>   https://www.yuasa.co.uk/info/technical/silver-calcium-batteries/
>
> In practice there is very little difference between battery descriptions
> and they are all lead-acid technology.
>
> Is there a fitment guide that recommends the intended battery for your car?

(Ha - an answer! . . . good to see this group still works)

At the VWAudio forum, I'm told that the part number is 000 915 105 DG,
but I'm not clear if that is a calcium battery or not.

On 17/02/2024 23:08, Andrew276 wrote:
> On 17/02/2024 12:25, Fredxx wrote:
>> On 16/02/2024 11:55, Andrew276 wrote:
>>> I'd be grateful if anyone could shed some light on the subject of
>>> fitting a calcium battery to an older vehicle.
>>>
>>> I've found conflicting information on this. Some say it is OK but
>>> I've also read that they require a higher charging voltage and cause
>>> the alternator to work harder and can cause damage in older cars.
>>>
>>> The car in question is a VW Golf 2008 1.9TDI.
>>>
>>> Also I'm wondering if compatibility depends on the alternator rather
>>> than the car. Are newer alternators designed to work OK with calcium
>>> batteries?
>>
>> This might be of interest:
>>    https://www.yuasa.co.uk/info/technical/silver-calcium-batteries/
>>
>> In practice there is very little difference between battery
>> descriptions and they are all lead-acid technology.
>>
>> Is there a fitment guide that recommends the intended battery for your
>> car?
>
> (Ha - an answer! . . . good to see this group still works)
>
> At the VWAudio forum, I'm told that the part number is 000 915 105 DG,
> but I'm not clear if that is a calcium battery or not.

Technically it is a lead-acid batter and calcium is a marketing tool.

Personally, I think you're overthinking this and it should be fine.
Calcium versions are said to accept a higher charging voltage without
gassing.

They will still charge at 14.4V, just like any other lead-acid battery.

On 18/02/2024 12:19, Fredxx wrote:
> On 17/02/2024 23:08, Andrew276 wrote:
>> On 17/02/2024 12:25, Fredxx wrote:
>>> On 16/02/2024 11:55, Andrew276 wrote:
>>>> I'd be grateful if anyone could shed some light on the subject of
>>>> fitting a calcium battery to an older vehicle.
>>>>
>>>> I've found conflicting information on this. Some say it is OK but
>>>> I've also read that they require a higher charging voltage and cause
>>>> the alternator to work harder and can cause damage in older cars.
>>>>
>>>> The car in question is a VW Golf 2008 1.9TDI.
>>>>
>>>> Also I'm wondering if compatibility depends on the alternator rather
>>>> than the car. Are newer alternators designed to work OK with calcium
>>>> batteries?
>>>
>>> This might be of interest:
>>>    https://www.yuasa.co.uk/info/technical/silver-calcium-batteries/
>>>
>>> In practice there is very little difference between battery
>>> descriptions and they are all lead-acid technology.
>>>
>>> Is there a fitment guide that recommends the intended battery for
>>> your car?
>>
>> (Ha - an answer! . . . good to see this group still works)
>>
>> At the VWAudio forum, I'm told that the part number is 000 915 105 DG,
>> but I'm not clear if that is a calcium battery or not.
>
> Technically it is a lead-acid batter and calcium is a marketing tool.
>
> Personally, I think you're overthinking this and it should be fine.
> Calcium versions are said to accept a higher charging voltage without
> gassing.
>
> They will still charge at 14.4V, just like any other lead-acid battery.

You sure? I've seen a lot about them needing 14.8. Honest John says:
"Despite the name, a 'calcium' battery is still a lead acid battery - it
just means antimony in the plates of the battery has been replaced by
calcium. This means it's more resistant to corrosion but it does require
a higher charge voltage than conventional batteries. "

and from
https://www.batteryskills.com/are-lead-acid-and-lead-calcium-batteries-interchangeable/

"Another difference between the two types of batteries is their charging
characteristics. Lead-calcium batteries generally require a higher
charging voltage than lead-acid batteries to achieve full charge. This
is because the calcium in the electrodes makes it more difficult for the
battery to accept a charge.
Practical Implications

In practical terms, the interchangeability of lead-acid and lead-calcium
batteries depends on the specific application and the requirements of
the system. In some cases, lead-calcium batteries may be a suitable
replacement for lead-acid batteries, while in other cases, they may not be.

One important consideration is the voltage and capacity of the battery.
Lead-calcium batteries typically have a slightly higher voltage than
lead-acid batteries, which can affect the performance of the system if
it is not designed to handle the higher voltage."

Yes there is little doubt that I'm overthinking it but I like to get to
the bottom of things.

On 19/02/2024 23:29, Andrew276 wrote:
> On 18/02/2024 12:19, Fredxx wrote:
>> On 17/02/2024 23:08, Andrew276 wrote:
>>> On 17/02/2024 12:25, Fredxx wrote:
>>>> On 16/02/2024 11:55, Andrew276 wrote:
>>>>> I'd be grateful if anyone could shed some light on the subject of
>>>>> fitting a calcium battery to an older vehicle.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've found conflicting information on this. Some say it is OK but
>>>>> I've also read that they require a higher charging voltage and
>>>>> cause the alternator to work harder and can cause damage in older
>>>>> cars.
>>>>>
>>>>> The car in question is a VW Golf 2008 1.9TDI.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also I'm wondering if compatibility depends on the alternator
>>>>> rather than the car. Are newer alternators designed to work OK with
>>>>> calcium batteries?
>>>>
>>>> This might be of interest:
>>>>    https://www.yuasa.co.uk/info/technical/silver-calcium-batteries/
>>>>
>>>> In practice there is very little difference between battery
>>>> descriptions and they are all lead-acid technology.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a fitment guide that recommends the intended battery for
>>>> your car?
>>>
>>> (Ha - an answer! . . . good to see this group still works)
>>>
>>> At the VWAudio forum, I'm told that the part number is 000 915 105
>>> DG, but I'm not clear if that is a calcium battery or not.
>>
>> Technically it is a lead-acid batter and calcium is a marketing tool.
>>
>> Personally, I think you're overthinking this and it should be fine.
>> Calcium versions are said to accept a higher charging voltage without
>> gassing.
>>
>> They will still charge at 14.4V, just like any other lead-acid battery.
>
> You sure? I've seen a lot about them needing 14.8. Honest John says:
> "Despite the name, a 'calcium' battery is still a lead acid battery - it
> just means antimony in the plates of the battery has been replaced by
> calcium. This means it's more resistant to corrosion but it does require
> a higher charge voltage than conventional batteries. "
>
> and from
> https://www.batteryskills.com/are-lead-acid-and-lead-calcium-batteries-interchangeable/
>
> "Another difference between the two types of batteries is their charging
> characteristics. Lead-calcium batteries generally require a higher
> charging voltage than lead-acid batteries to achieve full charge. This
> is because the calcium in the electrodes makes it more difficult for the
> battery to accept a charge.
> Practical Implications
>
> In practical terms, the interchangeability of lead-acid and lead-calcium
> batteries depends on the specific application and the requirements of
> the system. In some cases, lead-calcium batteries may be a suitable
> replacement for lead-acid batteries, while in other cases, they may not be.
>
> One important consideration is the voltage and capacity of the battery.
> Lead-calcium batteries typically have a slightly higher voltage than
> lead-acid batteries, which can affect the performance of the system if
> it is not designed to handle the higher voltage."
>
>
> Yes there is little doubt that I'm overthinking it but I like to get to
> the bottom of things.

The basic chemistry is lead acid. The calcium battery will accept a
higher charge voltage with less outgassing. I'm not convinced its a
pre-requisite for such a battery to accept a charge to need the higher
charging voltage.

While I also see many articles that say a charging voltage should be
within 14.4-14.8V I've never seen any graphs of charge and voltage over
time. Hell, the float charge voltage for a lead acid is 13.6 to 13.8V
and it will become fully charged at that float charging voltage, albeit
eventually. It's all about time and voltage to get to a known state of
charge. Furthermore some articles say the terminals won't corrode as
much which is BS. Other BS terms I have seen is "recombination process".

The real advantage of a calcium battery is it is resistant to corrosion;
it has no excessive gassing, less water usage, and reduced
self-discharge. And that last point that will be overwhelmed by the
discharge from the car's electronics anyway.

YMMV

Fredxx wrote:
> On 16/02/2024 11:55, Andrew276 wrote:
>> I'd be grateful if anyone could shed some light on the subject of
>> fitting a calcium battery to an older vehicle.
>>
>> I've found conflicting information on this. Some say it is OK but I've
>> also read that they require a higher charging voltage and cause the
>> alternator to work harder and can cause damage in older cars.
>>
>> The car in question is a VW Golf 2008 1.9TDI.
>>
>> Also I'm wondering if compatibility depends on the alternator rather
>> than the car. Are newer alternators designed to work OK with calcium
>> batteries?
>
> This might be of interest:
>   https://www.yuasa.co.uk/info/technical/silver-calcium-batteries/
>
> In practice there is very little difference between battery descriptions
> and they are all lead-acid technology.
>
> Is there a fitment guide that recommends the intended battery for your car?

I remember, years ago, buying a gel battery for my motorbike (I thought
it would be safer if I fell off). I was surprised to find it was just
like any other vehicle battery.

On 11/03/2024 15:37, The Hanging Baskets of Babylon wrote:
> Fredxx wrote:
>> On 16/02/2024 11:55, Andrew276 wrote:
>>> I'd be grateful if anyone could shed some light on the subject of
>>> fitting a calcium battery to an older vehicle.
>>>
>>> I've found conflicting information on this. Some say it is OK but
>>> I've also read that they require a higher charging voltage and cause
>>> the alternator to work harder and can cause damage in older cars.
>>>
>>> The car in question is a VW Golf 2008 1.9TDI.
>>>
>>> Also I'm wondering if compatibility depends on the alternator rather
>>> than the car. Are newer alternators designed to work OK with calcium
>>> batteries?
>>
>> This might be of interest:
>>    https://www.yuasa.co.uk/info/technical/silver-calcium-batteries/
>>
>> In practice there is very little difference between battery
>> descriptions and they are all lead-acid technology.
>>
>> Is there a fitment guide that recommends the intended battery for your
>> car?
>
> I remember, years ago, buying a gel battery for my motorbike (I thought
> it would be safer if I fell off).  I was surprised to find it was just
> like any other vehicle battery.

Almost, a significant difference is it wouldn't leak acid if inverted.