I am looking at a move to VOIP. I am told (by the ISP) I will need a
new router. As far as I can see, any phone can be plugged into the new
router with no need for a VOIP phone. I am a bit puzzled by this as I
thought a phone needed 50 volts to ring the bell. Will the router be
able to provide this, or is a powered adapter needed?

On 10/11/2023 16:44, Scott wrote:
> I am looking at a move to VOIP. I am told (by the ISP) I will need a
> new router. As far as I can see, any phone can be plugged into the new
> router with no need for a VOIP phone. I am a bit puzzled by this as I
> thought a phone needed 50 volts to ring the bell. Will the router be
> able to provide this, or is a powered adapter needed?

My phones seem to ring OK on my Fritz!Box, I just plugged the DECT
system into my socket and its fine.

Dave

On Fri 10/11/2023 20:10, David Wade wrote:
> On 10/11/2023 16:44, Scott wrote:
>> I am looking at a move to VOIP. I am told (by the ISP) I will need a
>> new router. As far as I can see, any phone can be plugged into the new
>> router with no need for a VOIP phone. I am a bit puzzled by this as I
>> thought a phone needed 50 volts to ring the bell. Will the router be
>> able to provide this, or is a powered adapter needed?
>
> My phones seem to ring OK on my Fritz!Box, I just plugged the DECT
> system into my socket and its fine.
>
>

That is because the DECT system is ringing the phones, the Fritz!box
only signals ringing albeit at about 25Vac and very little current.

For the OP, ringing is 50Vac 25Hz leaving the exchange but line
resistance will drop the volts long before it reaches your phone, and if
you have a REN or more than 1 it will loose even more!

You do NOT need a new router. You can get an ATA* (Analogue Telephone
Adapter), program it up, and it does everything you need. If you have a
Gigaset DECT system their termination boxes (such as the Go 100( have
both landline and Ethernet terminations and will thus act as an ATA.

*Look a for a Cisco/Linksys PAP2T on eBay - make sure it has the brand
label on it as there are many Chinese copies about. You need a PC to
program it but there is bucket-loads of on-line info how to do it, all
it needs is a bit of common sense. Or you can ask on UK.Telecom.Voip

On Fri, 10 Nov 2023 20:29:18 +0000, Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com>
wrote:

>On Fri 10/11/2023 20:10, David Wade wrote:
>> On 10/11/2023 16:44, Scott wrote:
>>> I am looking at a move to VOIP. I am told (by the ISP) I will need a
>>> new router. As far as I can see, any phone can be plugged into the new
>>> router with no need for a VOIP phone. I am a bit puzzled by this as I
>>> thought a phone needed 50 volts to ring the bell. Will the router be
>>> able to provide this, or is a powered adapter needed?
>>
>> My phones seem to ring OK on my Fritz!Box, I just plugged the DECT
>> system into my socket and its fine.
>>
>>
>
>That is because the DECT system is ringing the phones, the Fritz!box
>only signals ringing albeit at about 25Vac and very little current.
>
>For the OP, ringing is 50Vac 25Hz leaving the exchange but line
>resistance will drop the volts long before it reaches your phone, and if
>you have a REN or more than 1 it will loose even more!
>
>You do NOT need a new router. You can get an ATA* (Analogue Telephone
>Adapter), program it up, and it does everything you need. If you have a
>Gigaset DECT system their termination boxes (such as the Go 100( have
>both landline and Ethernet terminations and will thus act as an ATA.
>
>*Look a for a Cisco/Linksys PAP2T on eBay - make sure it has the brand
>label on it as there are many Chinese copies about. You need a PC to
>program it but there is bucket-loads of on-line info how to do it, all
>it needs is a bit of common sense. Or you can ask on UK.Telecom.Voip
>
Thanks. My impression was that the ISP will provide a new router, as
they seem to think it is needed. There was no mention of any payment.
My present router does not have a telephone socket on it - only
ethernet.

On 10/11/2023 21:20, Scott wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Nov 2023 20:29:18 +0000, Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Fri 10/11/2023 20:10, David Wade wrote:
>>> On 10/11/2023 16:44, Scott wrote:
>>>> I am looking at a move to VOIP. I am told (by the ISP) I will need a
>>>> new router. As far as I can see, any phone can be plugged into the new
>>>> router with no need for a VOIP phone. I am a bit puzzled by this as I
>>>> thought a phone needed 50 volts to ring the bell. Will the router be
>>>> able to provide this, or is a powered adapter needed?
>>>
>>> My phones seem to ring OK on my Fritz!Box, I just plugged the DECT
>>> system into my socket and its fine.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> That is because the DECT system is ringing the phones, the Fritz!box
>> only signals ringing albeit at about 25Vac and very little current.
>>
>> For the OP, ringing is 50Vac 25Hz leaving the exchange but line
>> resistance will drop the volts long before it reaches your phone, and if
>> you have a REN or more than 1 it will loose even more!
>>
>> You do NOT need a new router. You can get an ATA* (Analogue Telephone
>> Adapter), program it up, and it does everything you need. If you have a
>> Gigaset DECT system their termination boxes (such as the Go 100( have
>> both landline and Ethernet terminations and will thus act as an ATA.
>>
>> *Look a for a Cisco/Linksys PAP2T on eBay - make sure it has the brand
>> label on it as there are many Chinese copies about. You need a PC to
>> program it but there is bucket-loads of on-line info how to do it, all
>> it needs is a bit of common sense. Or you can ask on UK.Telecom.Voip
>>
> Thanks. My impression was that the ISP will provide a new router, as
> they seem to think it is needed. There was no mention of any payment.
> My present router does not have a telephone socket on it - only
> ethernet.

I suggest you try it. Most modern phones seem to work fine with the
lower ring current.

If your ISP is BT/EE/Zen you can't use a PAP2T as they don't disclose
the login information you need to set it up...

Dave

On 10/11/2023 20:29, Woody wrote:
> You do NOT need a new router. You can get an ATA* (Analogue Telephone
> Adapter), program it up, and it does everything you need. If you have a
> Gigaset DECT system their termination boxes (such as the Go 100( have
> both landline and Ethernet terminations and will thus act as an ATA.

It depends. If your ISP will also be your VoIP provider they may not be
prepared to give you the information needed to set up your own ATA or
other VoIP equipment. In other words they may require you to use their
equipment, and withhold information to force you to do so.

Also if you do want to use your own VoIP equipment it might be quite a
challenge to make it work well while your internet connection is
simultaneously being "maxed out" by file upload(s) and/or download(s).

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 00:25:15 +0000, Brian Gregory
<void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote:

>On 10/11/2023 20:29, Woody wrote:
>> You do NOT need a new router. You can get an ATA* (Analogue Telephone
>> Adapter), program it up, and it does everything you need. If you have a
>> Gigaset DECT system their termination boxes (such as the Go 100( have
>> both landline and Ethernet terminations and will thus act as an ATA.
>
>It depends. If your ISP will also be your VoIP provider they may not be
>prepared to give you the information needed to set up your own ATA or
>other VoIP equipment. In other words they may require you to use their
>equipment, and withhold information to force you to do so.
>
>Also if you do want to use your own VoIP equipment it might be quite a
>challenge to make it work well while your internet connection is
>simultaneously being "maxed out" by file upload(s) and/or download(s).

Looking at your post and David's post, I think this could be the
situation for me. Zen is my ISP and they are saying I need a new
router.

On 11/11/2023 07:08, Scott wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Nov 2023 00:25:15 +0000, Brian Gregory
> <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 10/11/2023 20:29, Woody wrote:
>>> You do NOT need a new router. You can get an ATA* (Analogue Telephone
>>> Adapter), program it up, and it does everything you need. If you have a
>>> Gigaset DECT system their termination boxes (such as the Go 100( have
>>> both landline and Ethernet terminations and will thus act as an ATA.
>>
>> It depends. If your ISP will also be your VoIP provider they may not be
>> prepared to give you the information needed to set up your own ATA or
>> other VoIP equipment. In other words they may require you to use their
>> equipment, and withhold information to force you to do so.
>>
>> Also if you do want to use your own VoIP equipment it might be quite a
>> challenge to make it work well while your internet connection is
>> simultaneously being "maxed out" by file upload(s) and/or download(s).
>
> Looking at your post and David's post, I think this could be the
> situation for me. Zen is my ISP and they are saying I need a new
> router.

In that case they will probably send you a new Fritz!Box 7530 AX. This
comes with a BT phone adaptor, but I think from previous posts this only
provides a 2-wire circuit, so if your phone relies on the third wire to
ring it won't work. However if your phone is less that about 30 years
old it will work. Have a close look at the lead. If it has an RJ11 at
the phone end it usually has two wires, and if so it will almost
certainly work. What phone do you have?

I will take back what I said about an ATA as you can connect it to the
Fritz!Box which acts as a SIP server as well as client and I believe
that that part of the box is left unlocked.

Note I can't be certain, as my internet is with ZEN but my phone is with
voipfone.co.uk. I have my DECT base plugged into the Router and one
Sangoma S50 Viopfone, so I am sure you could attach an ATA.

Hope this is useful...

Dave

On 10/11/2023 16:44, Scott wrote:
> I am looking at a move to VOIP. I am told (by the ISP) I will need a
> new router.
Not strictly true, but you will need *some* additional hardware.

>As far as I can see, any phone can be plugged into the new
> router with no need for a VOIP phone.

Normally correct

>I am a bit puzzled by this as I
> thought a phone needed 50 volts to ring the bell. Will the router be
> able to provide this,

Yes.

>or is a powered adapter needed?

No.

--
Of what good are dead warriors? … Warriors are those who desire battle
more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump
their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the
battle dance and dream of glory … The good of dead warriors, Mother, is
that they are dead.
Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

> I am looking at a move to VOIP. I am told (by the ISP) I will need a
> new router. As far as I can see, any phone can be plugged into the new
> router with no need for a VOIP phone. I am a bit puzzled by this as I
> thought a phone needed 50 volts to ring the bell. Will the router be
> able to provide this, or is a powered adapter needed?

To meet the proper specification, the D.C. looop current from a -50volt
source EMF then needs 80 volts ringing frequency superimposed on it. It
also must cope with a REN of 4.. If it doesn't do this, it is not fit
for purpose.

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

Am 10.11.2023 um 16:44:55 Uhr schrieb Scott:

> I am a bit puzzled by this as I thought a phone needed 50 volts to
> ring the bell. Will the router be able to provide this, or is a
> powered adapter needed?

Normal phones even with a real bell will ring properly.
I have an old German FeTAp 791 from 1980 on my FritzBox and it rings
very loudly.

Although, I haven't measured the voltage. Frequency is 25 Hertz, which
is fine for real bells.

On 11/11/2023 00:25, Brian Gregory wrote:
> On 10/11/2023 20:29, Woody wrote:
>> You do NOT need a new router. You can get an ATA* (Analogue Telephone
>> Adapter), program it up, and it does everything you need. If you have
>> a Gigaset DECT system their termination boxes (such as the Go 100(
>> have both landline and Ethernet terminations and will thus act as an ATA.
>
> It depends. If your ISP will also be your VoIP provider they may not be
> prepared to give you the information needed to set up your own ATA or
> other VoIP equipment. In other words they may require you to use their
> equipment, and withhold information to force you to do so.

So use someone else as your VoIP provider...

> Also if you do want to use your own VoIP equipment it might be quite a
> challenge to make it work well while your internet connection is
> simultaneously being "maxed out" by file upload(s) and/or download(s).

Using a router with Quality of Service (QoS) prioritisation for VoIP can
help there.

--
Cheers,

John.

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