I took the KTM out for a few wobbly laps around Washbrook Farm MX
yesterday, the first outing this year, and probably for 9 or 10
months.

There was a chatty bloke in a van next to me and he was saying that
the older KTMs (mine's an '05) run lean. Hot enough that in a dark
garage the exhaust glows, apparently. One tip he gave me was "pump the
throttle a couple of times, wait, and it'll start". The carb has an
accelerator pump, btw.

Flooded bikes are a bugger to restart, opening the throttle will pump
yet more fuel in, and on top of that, the thing has a warm start knob
that leans the mixture for hot starts, so I have always avoided
touching the throttle when it's playing silly buggers.

Anyway, having trailered the bike home and washed it, I tried to fire
it up to dry it, use some fuel in the float bowl, and shake off any
clinging mud that I'd missed. OK, it was fully cold by now and the
fuel tap was off, but the bowl should have been reasonably full.

It would not start. No choke to start with; then with choke; then hot
start; then hot start with choke; nada.

Choke only, two pumps, a couple of seconds' pause, and it fired next
boot.

--

-Pip

On 18/06/2023 13:31, Pipl wrote:
> I took the KTM out for a few wobbly laps around Washbrook Farm MX
> yesterday, the first outing this year, and probably for 9 or 10
> months.
>
> There was a chatty bloke in a van next to me and he was saying that
> the older KTMs (mine's an '05) run lean. Hot enough that in a dark
> garage the exhaust glows, apparently. One tip he gave me was "pump the
> throttle a couple of times, wait, and it'll start". The carb has an
> accelerator pump, btw.
>
> Flooded bikes are a bugger to restart, opening the throttle will pump
> yet more fuel in, and on top of that, the thing has a warm start knob
> that leans the mixture for hot starts, so I have always avoided
> touching the throttle when it's playing silly buggers.
>
> Anyway, having trailered the bike home and washed it, I tried to fire
> it up to dry it, use some fuel in the float bowl, and shake off any
> clinging mud that I'd missed. OK, it was fully cold by now and the
> fuel tap was off, but the bowl should have been reasonably full.
>
> It would not start. No choke to start with; then with choke; then hot
> start; then hot start with choke; nada.
>
> Choke only, two pumps, a couple of seconds' pause, and it fired next
> boot.
>

I quite often see people with carb KTMs lay them down on their side to
drain the float bowl a bit when they won't start.

--
/Simon

On Sun, 18 Jun 2023 17:25:26 +0100, siwilson
<siwilson@nodamnspamn.hotmail.com> wrote:

>I quite often see people with carb KTMs lay them down on their side to
>drain the float bowl a bit when they won't start.

Which seems to be the opposite to what I was told.

I always though that they flood when dropped. I do know that dropping
a motocrosser makes it a pita to restart.

--

-Pip

Pipl <pluscher@live.co.uk> wrote in
news:2diu8iho3qsjdf2j0mbotjom4ja9ula2vo@4ax.com:

> On Sun, 18 Jun 2023 17:25:26 +0100, siwilson
> <siwilson@nodamnspamn.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I quite often see people with carb KTMs lay them down on their side to
>>drain the float bowl a bit when they won't start.
>
> Which seems to be the opposite to what I was told.
>
> I always though that they flood when dropped. I do know that dropping
> a motocrosser makes it a pita to restart.
>

isn't it just excuse #367 in the off roader's book of excuses?

"No, I didn't drop it when I stalled it. It wouldn't restart so I am laying
it down to drain my bowels"

On Sun, 18 Jun 2023 22:21:40 -0000 (UTC), wessie
<willnotwork@tesco.net> wrote:

>isn't it just excuse #367 in the off roader's book of excuses?

<looks down and idly toys with dirt underfoot> maybe.

>"No, I didn't drop it when I stalled it. It wouldn't restart so I am laying
>it down to drain my bowels"

I do that before the first session.

--

-Pip

On Sunday, June 18, 2023 at 11:21:42 PM UTC+1, wessie wrote:

> "No, I didn't drop it when I stalled it. It wouldn't restart so I am laying
> it down to drain my bowels"

I remember the Team UKRM Kwak 750 with the flat-slide carbs that would
terminally flood if you looked at it funny. One of the riders (can't remember who)
had a rush of blood at a change over and gave it a big handful at the restart.

Fucking knackered, we were, pushing the fucking thing up and down the pitlane at
Snetterton(?). Happy days, jumpers for goalposts, etc, etc...

--
WUN

On 18/06/2023 13:31, Pipl wrote:
> I took the KTM out for a few wobbly laps around Washbrook Farm MX

I miss that place, my first very fun taste of MX.
I've been up in Scotland doing MX for the last three Tuesday evenings
on a teenager sized bike because they don't have any full size rentals.
Ho hum, now I need a tow bar and a trailer AND an MX bike.
Insane that my partner is ok with me having 4 bikes in the garage, lol.
Not that I know what to buy.
I WANT either a yz250f but probably a wr250f
I SHOULD get a CRF250 but I don't want to :P

On 20/06/2023 19:45, cat wrote:
> On 18/06/2023 13:31, Pipl wrote:
>> I took the KTM out for a few wobbly laps around Washbrook Farm MX
>
> I miss that place, my first very fun taste of MX.
> I've been up in Scotland doing MX for the last three Tuesday evenings
> on a teenager sized bike because they don't have any full size rentals.
> Ho hum, now I need a tow bar and a trailer AND an MX bike.
> Insane that my partner is ok with me having 4 bikes in the garage, lol.
> Not that I know what to buy.
> I WANT either a yz250f but probably a wr250f
> I SHOULD get a CRF250 but I don't want to :P
>

YZ250, none of that 'F' nonsense.

--
/Simon

On 20/06/2023 20:07, siwilson wrote:
> On 20/06/2023 19:45, cat wrote:
>> On 18/06/2023 13:31, Pipl wrote:
>>> I took the KTM out for a few wobbly laps around Washbrook Farm MX
>>
>> I miss that place, my first very fun taste of MX.
>>probably a wr250f
>
> YZ250, none of that 'F' nonsense.
>
Why? What's up with the f?
I'm after something fun, not racy. I'm old.
I want a 4 stroke that doesn't need a rebuild every two hours.
I know nothing about mx bikes, sob.

On 20/06/2023 20:52, cat wrote:
> On 20/06/2023 20:07, siwilson wrote:
>> On 20/06/2023 19:45, cat wrote:
>>> On 18/06/2023 13:31, Pipl wrote:
>>>> I took the KTM out for a few wobbly laps around Washbrook Farm MX
>>>
>>> I miss that place, my first very fun taste of MX.
>>> probably a wr250f
>>
>> YZ250, none of that 'F' nonsense.
>>
> Why? What's up with the f?
> I'm after something fun, not racy. I'm old.
> I want a 4 stroke that doesn't need a rebuild every two hours.
> I know nothing about mx bikes, sob.
bad form etc, the f is 4 stroke rather than 2 stroke.
wider power band and some low torque to let losers like me have a bit
more forgiveness when they're not power-banding and in the wrong gear
I'm a hundred years old and just having a giggle on the jumps.

On 20 Jun 2023 at 22:40:11 BST, "Pip Luscher" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:

> The correct answer is: get a 450. And a chest protector, elbow
> guards, or all-in-one, like I have, knee guards, clumpy, boots,
> peaked helmet and goggles (I am *so* glad I was wearing them one
> Saturday last year) and a neck brace. As I've got older my armour
> has got more and more extensive. And expensive.
>
> --
>
> PipL mobile

With that quantity of armour, shouldn't your sig say "immobile"?
--
jeremy

On 20/06/2023 22:40, Pip Luscher wrote:
> cat <cat@where.here> Wrote in message:
>>> On 18/06/2023 13:31, Pipl wrote:> I took the KTM out for a few wobbly laps around Washbrook Farm MX
>> I miss that place, my first very fun taste of MX.
>
> Oh, you've been there?
>
>> I WANT either a yz250f but probably a wr250fI SHOULD get a CRF250 but I don't want to :P
>
> The correct answer is: get a 450. And a chest protector, elbow

That smells a bit 'gixer thou' or 'angle grinder':
Why 450?! I'm just out for a giggle not to go fast.
So far I've got a hat and goggles (because rental helmets, eurgh),
boots and gloves. Next up is armour then some PJs to go over the top.
If the place I'm riding had any full size machines I'd just rent :/

On Wed, 21 Jun 2023 13:27:25 +0100, cat <cat@where.here> wrote:

>On 20/06/2023 22:40, Pip Luscher wrote:

>> The correct answer is: get a 450. And a chest protector, elbow
>
>That smells a bit 'gixer thou' or 'angle grinder':
>Why 450?! I'm just out for a giggle not to go fast.

There's "not go fast" and then there's "not have enough power to get
up the steeps without changing gear all the time".

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On 22/06/2023 23:22, Pip Luscher wrote:
> cat <cat@where.here> Wrote in message:
>> On 20/06/2023 22:40, Pip Luscher wrote:>
>>> The correct answer is: get a 450
>> That smells a bit 'gixer thou' or 'angle grinder':
> Bugger. Rumbled.
>
> Yes, smaller bikes like 125 2Ts and 250 4Ts are also loads of fun.
> I have a 450 because... well, tbh I need all the help I can get
> not to be a mobile chicane.
>
To pass my 'allowed on the track' stuff I believe I need to be able
to pick the thing up after I launch myself.
250 sounds a bit lighter than 450 in the picking it up sense, but
I could be wrong.
Also in the thou kind of thing, I do find that bugger hard to throw
around and am building a 600 which I *think* may be more fun :/

On 23/06/2023 18:14, cat wrote:
> On 22/06/2023 23:22, Pip Luscher wrote:
>> cat <cat@where.here> Wrote in message:
>>> On 20/06/2023 22:40, Pip Luscher wrote:>
>>>> The correct answer is: get a  450
>>> That smells a bit 'gixer thou' or 'angle grinder':
>> Bugger. Rumbled.
>>
>> Yes, smaller bikes like 125 2Ts and 250 4Ts are also loads of fun.
>>   I have a 450 because... well, tbh I need all the help I can get
>>   not to be a mobile chicane.
>>
> To pass my 'allowed on the track' stuff I believe I need to be able
> to pick the thing up after I launch myself.
> 250 sounds a bit lighter than 450 in the picking it up sense, but
> I could be wrong.
> Also in the thou kind of thing, I do find that bugger hard to throw
> around and am building a 600 which I *think* may be more fun :/

I thought I'd build a fun 500 back in the 1960s. The idea was to cast an
aluminium bracket on which to bolt four Rumi crankcases to make a 500cc
V-eight. I got as far as acquiring two Rumi engines, but finding another
two (or more, for spares) proved problematic.

Someone should havedreamed-up the intertubes years sooner

I also had a Norton gearbox (and a lathe and mill to make the power
transfer pieces), welding, bronze welding and brazing facilities.

If I'd been able to finish the thing (chairlot kneeler) it might have
been quite fast: the Rumi scooter (125cc 2-stroke twin) was reputed to
top 80mph.

The machining in the engine looked like Swiss watchmaker work. I have
always regretted not having got the other two (or more) engines.

Keep us informed of your progress...

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On Fri, 23 Jun 2023 18:14:20 +0100, cat <cat@where.here> wrote:

>On 22/06/2023 23:22, Pip Luscher wrote:
>> cat <cat@where.here> Wrote in message:
>>> On 20/06/2023 22:40, Pip Luscher wrote:>
>>>> The correct answer is: get a 450
>>> That smells a bit 'gixer thou' or 'angle grinder':
>> Bugger. Rumbled.
>>
>> Yes, smaller bikes like 125 2Ts and 250 4Ts are also loads of fun.
>> I have a 450 because... well, tbh I need all the help I can get
>> not to be a mobile chicane.
>>
>To pass my 'allowed on the track' stuff I believe I need to be able
>to pick the thing up after I launch myself.
>250 sounds a bit lighter than 450 in the picking it up sense, but
>I could be wrong.

A bit I think, but there will only be a handful of Kg in it, I
suspect.

>Also in the thou kind of thing, I do find that bugger hard to throw
>around and am building a 600 which I *think* may be more fun :/

Yes, I'm toying with going smaller too. Still undecided.

--

-Pip

cat wrote:
> Pip Luscher wrote:
> > I have a 450 because... well, tbh I need all the help I can get
> > not to be a mobile chicane.
> >
> To pass my 'allowed on the track' stuff I believe I need to be able
> to pick the thing up after I launch myself.

They do that for offroad stuff now?

I know there's an on-track assessment for circuit racing, but that didn't include having to pick a bike back up when I did it. Generally that's the marshals' job.

> 250 sounds a bit lighter than 450 in the picking it up sense, but
> I could be wrong.

There won't be a huge amount of difference in weight. A few kilos, tops.

> Also in the thou kind of thing, I do find that bugger hard to throw
> around and am building a 600 which I *think* may be more fun :/

First time I rode an R6 on track, after years on a gixer thou, I hated it, because I was trying to ride it like a litrebike. Next session I tried riding it like a 250 and it came alive. And it was fun. I distinctly remember coming out of the last corner at Cadwell, nailing the throttle, and thinking "it's still quick, but it didn't just try to kill me". Suddenly a 600 made sense.

On 25/06/2023 15:14, ogden wrote:
> cat wrote:
>> Pip Luscher wrote:
>>> I have a 450 because... well, tbh I need all the help I can get
>>> not to be a mobile chicane.
>>>
>> To pass my 'allowed on the track' stuff I believe I need to be able
>> to pick the thing up after I launch myself.
>
> They do that for offroad stuff now?
>
> I know there's an on-track assessment for circuit racing, but that didn't include having to pick a bike back up when I did it. Generally that's the marshals' job.
>

Amazing what adrenaline can achieve. When I came off at Loton I had got
to the bike picked it up and turned the fuel off before the marshals
reached it. Then 'rode it', well free-wheeled it back down to the start.
Felt a bit wobbly shortly afterwards TBF.

At the MX practice track that I used to take the lad to when he had the
small wheel YZ85, the marshals weren't keen on the kids with 150 4Ts
because they might be able to pick them up, but often couldn't start
them again.

IWHT a YZ250 would do very nicely as an introduction. A YZ450F is
certainly a bit heavier and the 'Wiil Power tuned' one we had gave me a
very dodgy knee and varicose veins trying to start the bastard when hot.

--
Moto Morini 2C/375
Gilera 175 Sport, Husqvarna 401 Svartpilen
"Do not adjust your mind, there is a fault in the reality"

On 26/06/2023 19:22, Pete Fisher wrote:

>
> Amazing what adrenaline can achieve. When I came off at Loton I had got
> to the bike picked it up and turned the fuel off before the marshals
> reached it. Then 'rode it', well free-wheeled it back down to the start.
> Felt a bit wobbly shortly afterwards TBF.
>

I stacked my crf450 at Prescott a few days ago.

Any incident whene a rider comes off is now always treated as serious.
The engine was still running and revving quite high so I hit the kill
switch but then let the marshalls deal with it, didn't even try to pick
it up.

Luckily, apart from the world's smallest bruise on my arm, I was unhurt.

--
/Simon

On 26/06/2023 20:50, siwilson wrote:
> On 26/06/2023 19:22, Pete Fisher wrote:
>
>>
>> Amazing what adrenaline can achieve. When I came off at Loton I had
>> got to the bike picked it up and turned the fuel off before the
>> marshals reached it. Then 'rode it', well free-wheeled it back down to
>> the start. Felt a bit wobbly shortly afterwards TBF.
>>
>
> I stacked my crf450 at Prescott a few days ago.
>
> Any incident whene a rider comes off is now always treated as serious.
> The engine was still running and revving quite high so I hit the kill
> switch but then let the marshalls deal with it, didn't even try to pick
> it up.
>

Yes, the Morini was revving its tits off, so kill switch was the first
priority. I managed to escape the clutches of the St Johns lot but
Tigger sensibly got a paramedic to come and check me over as I sat on
the bike in the start paddock probably looking rather white. I half
expected to leave a finger behind when I took my clove off.

> Luckily, apart from the world's smallest bruise on my arm, I was unhurt.
>

Meeting report to write then?

One or two quite nasty incidents and injuries on the hills of late I
see, involving people experienced and old enough to know better. You are
all taking it far to seriously these days.

May come to point and laugh on Saturday. A historic event (first all
bike Shelsey Walsh in 118 years).

--
Moto Morini 2C/375
Gilera 175 Sport, Husqvarna 401 Svartpilen
"Do not adjust your mind, there is a fault in the reality"

siwilson wrote:
> Any incident whene a rider comes off is now always treated as serious.

Ehhh... To a point. When I binned it at Tregrehan last year, the medic took one look at me, said "I can tell you're alright because you're more worried about the bike" and let me ride it, wonky bars and all, up the hill. When I'd binned it at Curborough a few weeks previously I picked myself up, rode back, repaired my leathers with duct tape as instructed, and went out for another run.

Maybe the officials at some hills just love getting a chance to step in and play a part for as long as possible. Or maybe it's down to the age of the rider? If I come off it's just a mishap, whereas if if you come off you've "had a fall".

Pete Fisher wrote:
> ogden wrote:
> > They do that for offroad stuff now?
> >
> > I know there's an on-track assessment for circuit racing, but that didn't include having to pick a bike back up when I did it. Generally that's the marshals' job.
> >
> Amazing what adrenaline can achieve. When I came off at Loton I had got
> to the bike picked it up and turned the fuel off before the marshals
> reached it. Then 'rode it', well free-wheeled it back down to the start.
> Felt a bit wobbly shortly afterwards TBF.

I did two full days of hillclimbs with a broken ankle after highsiding at Manor Farm. Hurt like a bitch once the adrenaline wore off, but I was fucked if I was telling anyone in a position of responsibility what I'd done before playtime was over.

At Tregrehan last year (per other post) I dodged being looked over by the medics, but I knew I'd done something. Found a hole in my knee when I got back to the paddock, but said nothing, patched it up, kept quiet, and did the timed run(s) I needed to get points before calling it a day. Would have been nice if the adrenaline had lasted a couple more hours because that was properly uncomfortable. Bastard wound opened up again when I was riding at Barbon a couple of weeks later, when the pressure of the leathers made the fresh skin slough off.

If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough.

On 27/06/2023 09:49, ogden wrote:
> siwilson wrote:
>> Any incident whene a rider comes off is now always treated as serious.
>
> Ehhh... To a point. When I binned it at Tregrehan last year, the medic took one look at me, said "I can tell you're alright because you're more worried about the bike"

A dangerous assumption.
It can also be a sign of a serious head injury!
When I came off on 'the island' in 2009, it was a sign that I had a
small subdural haemathingy.

HTH

Chris
--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On 27/06/2023 09:56, ogden wrote:
> Pete Fisher wrote:
>> ogden wrote:
>>> They do that for offroad stuff now?
>>>
>>> I know there's an on-track assessment for circuit racing, but that didn't include having to pick a bike back up when I did it. Generally that's the marshals' job.
>>>
>> Amazing what adrenaline can achieve. When I came off at Loton I had got
>> to the bike picked it up and turned the fuel off before the marshals
>> reached it. Then 'rode it', well free-wheeled it back down to the start.
>> Felt a bit wobbly shortly afterwards TBF.
>
> I did two full days of hillclimbs with a broken ankle after highsiding at Manor Farm. Hurt like a bitch once the adrenaline wore off, but I was fucked if I was telling anyone in a position of responsibility what I'd done before playtime was over.
>
> At Tregrehan last year (per other post) I dodged being looked over by the medics, but I knew I'd done something. Found a hole in my knee when I got back to the paddock, but said nothing, patched it up, kept quiet, and did the timed run(s) I needed to get points before calling it a day. Would have been nice if the adrenaline had lasted a couple more hours because that was properly uncomfortable. Bastard wound opened up again when I was riding at Barbon a couple of weeks later, when the pressure of the leathers made the fresh skin slough off.
>
> If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough.
> 1
If I could have lashed up a working twist grip [1] for the Morini I
probably would have kept riding as all I had to do for 6 points was get
to the top on one more run. I could still actually pull the clutch in.
Didn't really start to hurt until I had driven home and been to New
Cross A&E to have the finger and thumb splinted ("had a fall dear?" =
"sort of".) Not sure I'd have the strength to pick up anything in my
fleet other than the 175 these days.

Returning to the subject. I once took the Husky 501 to a MX practice
track before I converted it to speed hill climb use. Took me 15 minutes
to do one lap of a greasy, muddy track liberally strewn with what looked
like half bricks (it was on an old industrial site near Walsall). Like a
fairy on a gob of lard. Kept stalling and took ages to start it again
being so high and 'tuned'.

I would advise the OP to acquire something that is at least relatively
easy to start. For example a KTM 350SXF is electric start, the FI seems
pretty foolproof, and quite powerful enough to be going on with. The lad
used to put in times on ours only tenths slower than the 450s and got in
to the top ten run off a couple of times on it (on tarmac naturally).

[1] A compelling argument for bark busters even on a 'classic'.
Verlicchi twin pull throttles are unobtainium.
--
Moto Morini 2C/375
Gilera 175 Sport, Husqvarna 401 Svartpilen
"Do not adjust your mind, there is a fault in the reality"

On 26/06/2023 21:14, Pete Fisher wrote:

>
> Meeting report to write then?
>

On my todo list yeah.

--
/Simon