The rest of his family have, IMO, tried very hard to help George, see
his side of things, and so on.

Human nature WRT family ties, plus the demands of scriptwriting, being
what they are, efforts will continue.

I'm not that kind. As George has pointed out, he's an adult (in the eyes
of the law, not how he's behaving), so he might find his possessions in
a pile somewhere. (Actually, don't you hear of kids being thrown out of
their parents' home at 16, never mind 18?)

I fear what some have been saying re the Helen situation - that therapy
might have some effect - might apply to George. But I'm not tolerant
enough to give him house room while it is tried. But I guess some of his
family probably are.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

To keep leaf vegetables clean and crisp, cook lightly, then plunge into iced
water (the vegetables, that is). - manual for a Russell Hobbs electric steamer

On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 19:49:33 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver"
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

>The rest of his family have, IMO, tried very hard to help George, see
>his side of things, and so on.
>
>Human nature WRT family ties, plus the demands of scriptwriting, being
>what they are, efforts will continue.
>
>I'm not that kind. As George has pointed out, he's an adult (in the eyes
>of the law, not how he's behaving), so he might find his possessions in
>a pile somewhere. (Actually, don't you hear of kids being thrown out of
>their parents' home at 16, never mind 18?)
>
>I fear what some have been saying re the Helen situation - that therapy
>might have some effect - might apply to George. But I'm not tolerant
>enough to give him house room while it is tried. But I guess some of his
>family probably are.

I'm just reading synopses as they are put on the BBC site while the
ROb stuff is happening. The thing about George is he's nasty. Ed and
Eddie and Jazzer when he used to be a bit of a lad, and Eddie's
brother were basically rascals but not nasty ones. Ed and Eddie and
Jazzer weren't lazy either. Eddie was a bit get rich quick if
possible, but also mostly worked very hard, as did they other two.
George wants to be management and swan around because he's a lazy
scroat. and he's also rude and disrespectful. The other three were
not. I don't think Eddie's brother was either. George is like Clive.

On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 21:42:43 +0100, Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 19:49:33 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver"
><G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>
>>The rest of his family have, IMO, tried very hard to help George, see
>>his side of things, and so on.
>>
>>Human nature WRT family ties, plus the demands of scriptwriting, being
>>what they are, efforts will continue.
>>
>>I'm not that kind. As George has pointed out, he's an adult (in the eyes
>>of the law, not how he's behaving), so he might find his possessions in
>>a pile somewhere. (Actually, don't you hear of kids being thrown out of
>>their parents' home at 16, never mind 18?)
>>
>>I fear what some have been saying re the Helen situation - that therapy
>>might have some effect - might apply to George. But I'm not tolerant
>>enough to give him house room while it is tried. But I guess some of his
>>family probably are.
>
>I'm just reading synopses as they are put on the BBC site while the
>ROb stuff is happening. The thing about George is he's nasty. Ed and
>Eddie and Jazzer when he used to be a bit of a lad, and Eddie's
>brother were basically rascals but not nasty ones. Ed and Eddie and
>Jazzer weren't lazy either. Eddie was a bit get rich quick if
>possible, but also mostly worked very hard, as did they other two.
>George wants to be management and swan around because he's a lazy
>scroat. and he's also rude and disrespectful. The other three were
>not. I don't think Eddie's brother was either. George is like Clive.

I mean Susan's brother, don't I, not Eddie's. But Eddie had a bad one
too, didn't he? Also not nasty.

On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 21:42:43 +0100, Vicky wrote:

> George is like Clive.

Which is probably why Susan worships the ground he walks on.

How long do we reckon before Emma forgives George for yesterday's little
fracas? She'll say something like "I never realised how my behaviour with
Will and Ed had made life difficult for George" and go back to trying to
ensure none of George's actions have any consequences for him.

--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0

On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 19:49:33 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver"
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

>The rest of his family have, IMO, tried very hard to help George, see
>his side of things, and so on.
>
>Human nature WRT family ties, plus the demands of scriptwriting, being
>what they are, efforts will continue.
>
>I'm not that kind. As George has pointed out, he's an adult (in the eyes
>of the law, not how he's behaving), so he might find his possessions in
>a pile somewhere. (Actually, don't you hear of kids being thrown out of
>their parents' home at 16, never mind 18?)
>
>I fear what some have been saying re the Helen situation - that therapy
>might have some effect - might apply to George. But I'm not tolerant
>enough to give him house room while it is tried. But I guess some of his
>family probably are.

Like you, I'm anything but tolerant. There's only one treatment
George will understand - a good KITA. And the same applies to his
doting but sadly misguided mother and grandmother.

Poor Neil!

On 20.7.23 22:38, Vicky wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 21:42:43 +0100, Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 19:49:33 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver"
>> <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> The rest of his family have, IMO, tried very hard to help George, see
>>> his side of things, and so on.
>>>
>>> Human nature WRT family ties, plus the demands of scriptwriting, being
>>> what they are, efforts will continue.
>>>
>>> I'm not that kind. As George has pointed out, he's an adult (in the eyes
>>> of the law, not how he's behaving), so he might find his possessions in
>>> a pile somewhere. (Actually, don't you hear of kids being thrown out of
>>> their parents' home at 16, never mind 18?)
>>>
>>> I fear what some have been saying re the Helen situation - that therapy
>>> might have some effect - might apply to George. But I'm not tolerant
>>> enough to give him house room while it is tried. But I guess some of his
>>> family probably are.
>>
>> I'm just reading synopses as they are put on the BBC site while the
>> ROb stuff is happening. The thing about George is he's nasty. Ed and
>> Eddie and Jazzer when he used to be a bit of a lad, and Eddie's
>> brother were basically rascals but not nasty ones. Ed and Eddie and
>> Jazzer weren't lazy either. Eddie was a bit get rich quick if
>> possible, but also mostly worked very hard, as did they other two.
>> George wants to be management and swan around because he's a lazy
>> scroat. and he's also rude and disrespectful. The other three were
>> not. I don't think Eddie's brother was either. George is like Clive.
>
> I mean Susan's brother, don't I, not Eddie's. But Eddie had a bad one
> too, didn't he? Also not nasty.

He is a combination of the genes which gave us Alf and Clive Horrobin -
what else did anyone expect when his mother never taught him any
discipline and simply praised all that he did and his fathers could
never tell him off because the other one would not support him.

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

On 21/07/2023 09:19, krw wrote:
>
> He is a combination of the genes which gave us Alf and Clive Horrobin -
> what else did anyone expect when his mother never taught him any
> discipline and simply praised all that he did and his fathers could
> never tell him off because the other one would not support him.
>
'orrobin genes will out !

My laughter at the epi was drowned out by the sound of all the chickens
coming home to roost. Brilliant. Pity the deluded Soozan wasn't there to
hear it too.

I have to say also that the actor playing George was inspired...

In message <khuu8oFlv4vU1@mid.individual.net> at Fri, 21 Jul 2023
09:34:31, BrritSki <rtilburyTAKEOUT@gmail.com> writes
[]
>My laughter at the epi was drowned out by the sound of all the chickens
>coming home to roost. Brilliant. Pity the deluded Soozan wasn't there
>to hear it too.

Yes, well done and I agree pity S wasn't there.
>
>I have to say also that the actor playing George was inspired...
>
Good point.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

freedom of speech is useless if nobody can hear you.
-- David Harris -- Author, Pegasus Mail Dunedin, May 2002.

In message <khup15Flgs1U1@mid.individual.net> at Fri, 21 Jul 2023
07:05:10, Jim Easterbrook <news@jim-easterbrook.me.uk> writes
>On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 21:42:43 +0100, Vicky wrote:
>
>> George is like Clive.
>
>Which is probably why Susan worships the ground he walks on.

Did she really worship Clive? She was certainly more tolerant of him
than absolutely anybody else, but I don't remember her being _totally_
blind to his faults.
>
>How long do we reckon before Emma forgives George for yesterday's little
>fracas? She'll say something like "I never realised how my behaviour with
>Will and Ed had made life difficult for George" and go back to trying to
>ensure none of George's actions have any consequences for him.
>
You're very perceptive. I think you might be right.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

freedom of speech is useless if nobody can hear you.
-- David Harris -- Author, Pegasus Mail Dunedin, May 2002.

In message <msecnXMMRu4Soif5nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk> at Fri,
21 Jul 2023 09:19:25, krw <krw@whitnet.uk> writes
>On 20.7.23 22:38, Vicky wrote:
>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 21:42:43 +0100, Vicky <vicky.ayech@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
[]
>>> I'm just reading synopses as they are put on the BBC site while the
>>> ROb stuff is happening. The thing about George is he's nasty. Ed and

Does seem so. No redeeming features. One or two have said he works hard
sometimes, but AFAICS not for long.

>>> Eddie and Jazzer when he used to be a bit of a lad, and Eddie's
>>> brother were basically rascals but not nasty ones. Ed and Eddie and

I think Alf _was_ quite nasty, but either before my time, or before all
of us's time (i. e. only by repute). Certainly there's some suspicion he
may have been involved in that church collection theft (though may have
been one of the then young-uns too).

>>> Jazzer weren't lazy either. Eddie was a bit get rich quick if
>>> possible, but also mostly worked very hard, as did they other two.
>>> George wants to be management and swan around because he's a lazy
>>> scroat. and he's also rude and disrespectful. The other three were
>>> not. I don't think Eddie's brother was either. George is like Clive.
>> I mean Susan's brother, don't I, not Eddie's. But Eddie had a bad

Until you issued that correction, I wasn't sure if you meant Will. Who
was a bit petulant at one point (though I - as an elder brother too,
though I and mine have never had any similar situation - had some
sympathy when he inherited something and his brother didn't, because the
aunt hadn't known of his brother's existence when writing her will).

>>one
>> too, didn't he? Also not nasty.
>
>He is a combination of the genes which gave us Alf and Clive Horrobin -

What a horrible thought!

>what else did anyone expect when his mother never taught him any
>discipline and simply praised all that he did and his fathers could
>never tell him off because the other one would not support him.
>
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

freedom of speech is useless if nobody can hear you.
-- David Harris -- Author, Pegasus Mail Dunedin, May 2002.

In message <toekbihd0vtif5a511b18du94jkpca4i1u@4ax.com> at Fri, 21 Jul
2023 09:03:18, John Armstrong <jja@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
[]
>Like you, I'm anything but tolerant. There's only one treatment
>George will understand - a good KITA. And the same applies to his

Which I can see him getting in prison. Though as yet I don't _think_
he's done anything yet that would put him there.

>doting but sadly misguided mother and grandmother.

But there's no-one to give them that.
>
>Poor Neil!

Indeed. A gentle soul, who just wants a quiet life.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

freedom of speech is useless if nobody can hear you.
-- David Harris -- Author, Pegasus Mail Dunedin, May 2002.

On 21-Jul-23 8:05, Jim Easterbrook wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 21:42:43 +0100, Vicky wrote:
>
>> George is like Clive.
>
> Which is probably why Susan worships the ground he walks on.
>
> How long do we reckon before Emma forgives George for yesterday's little
> fracas? She'll say something like "I never realised how my behaviour with
> Will and Ed had made life difficult for George" and go back to trying to
> ensure none of George's actions have any consequences for him.

Families Eh?
When they are good, they are very good, but when they are bad...

--
Sam Plusnet

In message <dQAuM.122054$L_f2.61708@fx05.ams1> at Fri, 21 Jul 2023
20:16:24, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> writes
[]
>Families Eh?
>When they are good, they are very good, but when they are bad...
>

They make good drama )-:. [Not just radio and TV - books and plays back
to well before Shaksper.]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

_____
___ |[]|_n_n_I_c
|___||__|###|____)
O-O--O-O+++--O-O

On Fri, 21 Jul 2023 22:56:02 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> a
gribouillé dans la poussière...

>In message <dQAuM.122054$L_f2.61708@fx05.ams1> at Fri, 21 Jul 2023
>20:16:24, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> writes
>[]
>>Families Eh?
>>When they are good, they are very good, but when they are bad...
>>
>
>They make good drama )-:. [Not just radio and TV - books and plays back
>to well before Shaksper.]

Families like that seem to be an invention of fiction, although in TA (and
Ab Fab) they have moved on to the more usual(?) generation 2 behaving very
differently from gen 1 because they don't approve of the behaviour of their
parents. Bad apples do appear in each generation, but some reform.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959

On 21/07/2023 12:00, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <khup15Flgs1U1@mid.individual.net> at Fri, 21 Jul 2023
> 07:05:10, Jim Easterbrook <news@jim-easterbrook.me.uk> writes
>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 21:42:43 +0100, Vicky wrote:
>>
>>> George is like Clive.
>>
>> Which is probably why Susan worships the ground he walks on.
>
> Did she really worship Clive? She was certainly more tolerant of him
> than absolutely anybody else, but I don't remember her being _totally_
> blind to his faults.

Didn't she go to prison for him?

john

On 22/07/2023 10:51, Penny wrote:
> Families like that seem to be an invention of fiction, although in TA (and
> Ab Fab) they have moved on to the more usual(?) generation 2 behaving very
> differently from gen 1 because they don't approve of the behaviour of their
> parents. Bad apples do appear in each generation, but some reform.

#Back in the days when I was an avid consumer of MAD magazine they did a
piece about each generation being the opposite of the previous, so they
had Grannies and Grandpas in jeans and crew-cuts tearing around on
motor-bikes with their grandchildren (in jeans and crew-cuts) riding
pillion and the very respectably-dressed and sedate parents despairing.

--
Jenny M Benson
Wrexham, UK

In message <ki24scF5gsvU1@mid.individual.net> at Sat, 22 Jul 2023
14:45:46, Jenny M Benson <NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk> writes
>On 22/07/2023 10:51, Penny wrote:
>> Families like that seem to be an invention of fiction, although in TA (and
>> Ab Fab) they have moved on to the more usual(?) generation 2 behaving very
>> differently from gen 1 because they don't approve of the behaviour of their
>> parents. Bad apples do appear in each generation, but some reform.
>
>#Back in the days when I was an avid consumer of MAD magazine they did
>a piece about each generation being the opposite of the previous, so
>they had Grannies and Grandpas in jeans and crew-cuts tearing around on
>motor-bikes with their grandchildren (in jeans and crew-cuts) riding
>pillion and the very respectably-dressed and sedate parents despairing.
>
It does tend to alternate to some extent, not just in MAD; my mother (a
devout atheist by our time) was fond of saying she thought we'd be
bishops, or something. (We didn't.)

There's a different view when it comes to one thing:

.... each generation tends to imagine that its attitude to sex strikes
just about the right balance; that by comparison its predecessors were
prim and embarrassed, its successors sex-obsessed and pornified. -
Julian Barnes, Radio Times 9-15 March 2013
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If it jams - force it. If it breaks, it needed replacing anyway.

On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 12:06:26 PM UTC+1, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <khup15...@mid.individual.net> at Fri, 21 Jul 2023
<snip>
> >Which is probably why Susan worships the ground he walks on.
> Did she really worship Clive? She was certainly more tolerant of him
> than absolutely anybody else, but I don't remember her being _totally_
> blind to his faults.
<snip>
She went to prison for him!

Nick
nickodell49@yahoo.ca

On Saturday, July 22, 2023 at 11:13:56 AM UTC+1, john ashby wrote:
> On 21/07/2023 12:00, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> > In message <khup15...@mid.individual.net> at Fri, 21 Jul 2023
> > 07:05:10, Jim Easterbrook <ne...@jim-easterbrook.me.uk> writes
> >> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 21:42:43 +0100, Vicky wrote:
> >>
> >>> George is like Clive.
> >>
> >> Which is probably why Susan worships the ground he walks on.
> >
> > Did she really worship Clive? She was certainly more tolerant of him
> > than absolutely anybody else, but I don't remember her being _totally_
> > blind to his faults.
> Didn't she go to prison for him?
>
> john
Oops! Sorry John. I didn't see you there.

Nick
nickodell49@yahoo.ca

On 22-Jul-23 19:17, Nick Odell wrote:
> On Friday, July 21, 2023 at 12:06:26 PM UTC+1, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> In message <khup15...@mid.individual.net> at Fri, 21 Jul 2023
> <snip>
>>> Which is probably why Susan worships the ground he walks on.
>> Did she really worship Clive? She was certainly more tolerant of him
>> than absolutely anybody else, but I don't remember her being _totally_
>> blind to his faults.
> <snip>
> She went to prison for him!

I would have said she went to prison for the criminal acts she carried out.

She _appeared_ to have been motivated by Clive's threats (explicit and
implicit) more than any love or loyalty towards him.

At least, that's how I remember it.

--
Sam Plusnet

Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Jul 2023 22:56:02 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> a
> gribouillé dans la poussière...
>
>> In message <dQAuM.122054$L_f2.61708@fx05.ams1> at Fri, 21 Jul 2023
>> 20:16:24, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> writes
>> []
>>> Families Eh?
>>> When they are good, they are very good, but when they are bad...
>>>
>>
>> They make good drama )-:. [Not just radio and TV - books and plays back
>> to well before Shaksper.]
>
> Families like that seem to be an invention of fiction, although in TA (and
> Ab Fab) they have moved on to the more usual(?) generation 2 behaving very
> differently from gen 1 because they don't approve of the behaviour of their
> parents. Bad apples do appear in each generation, but some reform.

When *will* someone (probably Eddie) admit George is another, but a 21st
century, Alf?

Mrs McT

john ashby <johnashby20@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 21/07/2023 12:00, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> In message <khup15Flgs1U1@mid.individual.net> at Fri, 21 Jul 2023
>> 07:05:10, Jim Easterbrook <news@jim-easterbrook.me.uk> writes
>>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 21:42:43 +0100, Vicky wrote:
>>>
>>>> George is like Clive.
>>>
>>> Which is probably why Susan worships the ground he walks on.
>>
>> Did she really worship Clive? She was certainly more tolerant of him
>> than absolutely anybody else, but I don't remember her being _totally_
>> blind to his faults.
>
> Didn't she go to prison for him?
>
> john
>
>

She did, yes. She covered up for him. And she still wants to social
climb!

Mrs McT

In message <u9k1hf$bb2q$1@dont-email.me> at Sun, 23 Jul 2023 20:11:27,
Chris <chris.mcmillan@ntlworld.com> writes
>Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 21 Jul 2023 22:56:02 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> a
>> gribouillé dans la poussière...
>>
>>> In message <dQAuM.122054$L_f2.61708@fx05.ams1> at Fri, 21 Jul 2023
>>> 20:16:24, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> writes
>>> []
>>>> Families Eh?
>>>> When they are good, they are very good, but when they are bad...
>>>>
>>>
>>> They make good drama )-:. [Not just radio and TV - books and plays back
>>> to well before Shaksper.]
>>
>> Families like that seem to be an invention of fiction, although in TA (and
>> Ab Fab) they have moved on to the more usual(?) generation 2 behaving very
>> differently from gen 1 because they don't approve of the behaviour of their
>> parents. Bad apples do appear in each generation, but some reform.
>
>When *will* someone (probably Eddie) admit George is another, but a 21st
>century, Alf?
>
>Mrs McT
>
>
I don't think there's anything particularly 21st century about his
badness - unless you just meant just when he was born/is living.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

.... she has never contracted A-listeria or developed airs and graces. Kathy
Lette on Kylie, RT 2014/1/11-17

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> In message <u9k1hf$bb2q$1@dont-email.me> at Sun, 23 Jul 2023 20:11:27,
> Chris <chris.mcmillan@ntlworld.com> writes
>> Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 21 Jul 2023 22:56:02 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> a
>>> gribouillé dans la poussière...
>>>
>>>> In message <dQAuM.122054$L_f2.61708@fx05.ams1> at Fri, 21 Jul 2023
>>>> 20:16:24, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> writes
>>>> []
>>>>> Families Eh?
>>>>> When they are good, they are very good, but when they are bad...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> They make good drama )-:. [Not just radio and TV - books and plays back
>>>> to well before Shaksper.]
>>>
>>> Families like that seem to be an invention of fiction, although in TA (and
>>> Ab Fab) they have moved on to the more usual(?) generation 2 behaving very
>>> differently from gen 1 because they don't approve of the behaviour of their
>>> parents. Bad apples do appear in each generation, but some reform.
>>
>> When *will* someone (probably Eddie) admit George is another, but a 21st
>> century, Alf?
>>
>> Mrs McT
>>
>>
> I don't think there's anything particularly 21st century about his
> badness - unless you just meant just when he was born/is living.

Living. A chip off the Alf block since we don’t know who he took after.

Mrs McT