If someone phones me and asks me security questions for me to prove that
I am who they think I am, how is that ever going to work? We need a
solution to this problem. There are just so many scammers now, that
scamming is normal and genuine callers are unusual.

On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 12:28:24 +0000
Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:

> If someone phones me and asks me security questions for me to prove
> that I am who they think I am, how is that ever going to work? We
> need a solution to this problem. There are just so many scammers now,
> that scamming is normal and genuine callers are unusual.

Ask the caller to prove who he/she is? I did that when my bank called,
and the guy who called agreed that it was a problem, and gave me a
reference number to use when I called the bank myself, later. It was
indeed genuine.

--
Davey.

Davey <davey@example.invalid> writes:

> On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 12:28:24 +0000
> Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>> If someone phones me and asks me security questions for me to prove
>> that I am who they think I am, how is that ever going to work? We
>> need a solution to this problem. There are just so many scammers now,
>> that scamming is normal and genuine callers are unusual.
>
> Ask the caller to prove who he/she is? I did that when my bank called,
> and the guy who called agreed that it was a problem, and gave me a
> reference number to use when I called the bank myself, later. It was
> indeed genuine.

Remember the Talktalk hack, where people were phoned and given
information from their Talktalk account which convinced them it was a
genuine call? I don't know what the solution is, something like PGP for
phone calls. But then hardly anyone uses PGP for email so I don't hold
much hope.

Actually I have just thought of a solution: a one time password app. If
the caller used the app to generate a one time password, the recipient
could use the same app to confirm it is correct. It maybe wouldn't work
if the callers system had been hacked though.

On 21/11/2023 12:28, Richmond wrote:
> If someone phones me and asks me security questions for me to prove that
> I am who they think I am, how is that ever going to work? We need a
> solution to this problem.

Ther is a very simple solution.

Refuse to talk and ask them what phone number you should call them, back on.
Then check that number.

There are just so many scammers now, that
> scamming is normal and genuine callers are unusual.

Indeed.

--
To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:

> On 21/11/2023 12:28, Richmond wrote:
>> If someone phones me and asks me security questions for me to prove that
>> I am who they think I am, how is that ever going to work? We need a
>> solution to this problem.
>
> Ther is a very simple solution.
>
> Refuse to talk and ask them what phone number you should call them, back on.
> Then check that number.
>

Maybe. But if that number is a call centre then I will get through to
someone else, if I get through at all. So they would have to have a
special freephone line published on their website, which they won't want
to do because everyone will phone it. Maybe an extension number which
you can type when you get to the switchboard would work.

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 21/11/2023 12:28, Richmond wrote:
> > If someone phones me and asks me security questions for me to prove that
> > I am who they think I am, how is that ever going to work? We need a
> > solution to this problem.
>
> Ther is a very simple solution.
>
> Refuse to talk and ask them what phone number you should call them, back on.
> Then check that number.

I needed to pay my doctor's surgery for a doctor's note that didn't come
under the N.H.S., they said they would ring me for my card details. I
pointed out that I would not give those details to anyone who rang me,
but would ring them back - they said that wouldn't work because I would
be put in a queue and might not speak to the secretary who dealt with
payments.

We could not see any way around it, so I had to walk to the surgery and
pay them in person. They spoke as if nobody had ever queried their
system before.

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) writes:

> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 21/11/2023 12:28, Richmond wrote:
>> > If someone phones me and asks me security questions for me to prove that
>> > I am who they think I am, how is that ever going to work? We need a
>> > solution to this problem.
>>
>> Ther is a very simple solution.
>>
>> Refuse to talk and ask them what phone number you should call them, back on.
>> Then check that number.
>
> I needed to pay my doctor's surgery for a doctor's note that didn't come
> under the N.H.S., they said they would ring me for my card details. I
> pointed out that I would not give those details to anyone who rang me,
> but would ring them back - they said that wouldn't work because I would
> be put in a queue and might not speak to the secretary who dealt with
> payments.
>
> We could not see any way around it, so I had to walk to the surgery and
> pay them in person. They spoke as if nobody had ever queried their
> system before.

I asked Google Bard about this, and it mentioned:

"Call attestation: This is a new technology that uses blockchain to
verify the identity of the caller. Call attestation is still in its
early stages of development, but it has the potential to be the most
secure method of phone call authentication."

But I'll be long dead before GPs start using such technology I think.

On 21/11/2023 14:57, Richmond wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
>
>> On 21/11/2023 12:28, Richmond wrote:
>>> If someone phones me and asks me security questions for me to prove that
>>> I am who they think I am, how is that ever going to work? We need a
>>> solution to this problem.
>>
>> Ther is a very simple solution.
>>
>> Refuse to talk and ask them what phone number you should call them, back on.
>> Then check that number.
>>
>
> Maybe. But if that number is a call centre then I will get through to
> someone else, if I get through at all. So they would have to have a
> special freephone line published on their website, which they won't want
> to do because everyone will phone it. Maybe an extension number which
> you can type when you get to the switchboard would work.

In my case they said 'phone the number on your credit card and mention
this case number'

--
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as
foolish, and by the rulers as useful.

(Seneca the Younger, 65 AD)

Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 21/11/2023 12:28, Richmond wrote:
>>> If someone phones me and asks me security questions for me to prove that
>>> I am who they think I am, how is that ever going to work? We need a
>>> solution to this problem.
>>
>> Ther is a very simple solution.
>>
>> Refuse to talk and ask them what phone number you should call them, back on.
>> Then check that number.
>
> I needed to pay my doctor's surgery for a doctor's note that didn't come
> under the N.H.S., they said they would ring me for my card details. I
> pointed out that I would not give those details to anyone who rang me,
> but would ring them back - they said that wouldn't work because I would
> be put in a queue and might not speak to the secretary who dealt with
> payments.
>
> We could not see any way around it, so I had to walk to the surgery and
> pay them in person. They spoke as if nobody had ever queried their
> system before.
>

You could have given them a password to be quoted when they phoned you
back.

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

> Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> On 21/11/2023 12:28, Richmond wrote:
> >>> If someone phones me and asks me security questions for me to prove that
> >>> I am who they think I am, how is that ever going to work? We need a
> >>> solution to this problem.
> >>
> >> Ther is a very simple solution.
> >>
> >> Refuse to talk and ask them what phone number you should call them,
> >> back on. Then check that number.
> >
> > I needed to pay my doctor's surgery for a doctor's note that didn't come
> > under the N.H.S., they said they would ring me for my card details. I
> > pointed out that I would not give those details to anyone who rang me,
> > but would ring them back - they said that wouldn't work because I would
> > be put in a queue and might not speak to the secretary who dealt with
> > payments.
> >
> > We could not see any way around it, so I had to walk to the surgery and
> > pay them in person. They spoke as if nobody had ever queried their
> > system before.
> >
>
> You could have given them a password to be quoted when they phoned you
> back.

Excellent idea - but I'm not sure if it would have worked in this case
because they 'phoned me.

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

On 21/11/2023 12:31, Davey wrote:
> Ask the caller to prove who he/she is? I did that when my bank called,
> and the guy who called agreed that it was a problem, and gave me a
> reference number to use when I called the bank myself, later. It was
> indeed genuine.

Some time since I had one but when I had genuine call a credit card
company, they told me to ring the number on the back of the car and
preferable from another phone.

I wonder if it will become more of a problem when all phones go digital?

On 21/11/2023 12:28, Richmond wrote:
> If someone phones me and asks me security questions for me to prove that
> I am who they think I am, how is that ever going to work? We need a
> solution to this problem. There are just so many scammers now, that
> scamming is normal and genuine callers are unusual.

Ask the caller a security question (obviously completely made up) and
see how he reacts.

Yes apart from the odd fiend, and nhs calls who withhold their numbers, most
are sales or scams. I use truecall VI and it screens every call not on my
white list and does not call my phone until the caller says who they are.
This tends to put most call centre staff and scammers off, and they put
their phones down. Of course it does mean that the with holders can get
frightened off, but I try to tell these organisations and people that if
they set a number, I could white list it.
I think the most blatant scam going at the moment is crooks running lines
that might cost 2 quid or so just to connect to, and they tend to call just
your mobile with one ring. Then you are supposed to call back the missed
call, and get a charge for connection The telecom folk seem very loathe to
ban prefixes, and so the unwary can get billed. What I and Vodafone have
done as a work around is to ban any outgoing calls from the phone to a
number that has not been included in my free call plan, so they can waste
their machines time calling me, but I won't be able to call them back.

Brian

--

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"Richmond" <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote in message
news:83cyw3s32v.fsf@example.com...
> If someone phones me and asks me security questions for me to prove that
> I am who they think I am, how is that ever going to work? We need a
> solution to this problem. There are just so many scammers now, that
> scamming is normal and genuine callers are unusual.

Yes who memorises all the abstract numbers and passwords anyway? Being blind
I cannot even refer to a crib sheet. Not that I'd suggest writing it all
down anyway.

Scammers move with the times. When I ran my business, I had to get a unit to
screen calls as there were so many people sending junk Fax messages in the
middle of the night it was costing a small fortune in paper.
Brian

--

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briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Davey" <davey@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:uji7vp$qn6h$1@dont-email.me...
> On Tue, 21 Nov 2023 12:28:24 +0000
> Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>> If someone phones me and asks me security questions for me to prove
>> that I am who they think I am, how is that ever going to work? We
>> need a solution to this problem. There are just so many scammers now,
>> that scamming is normal and genuine callers are unusual.
>
> Ask the caller to prove who he/she is? I did that when my bank called,
> and the guy who called agreed that it was a problem, and gave me a
> reference number to use when I called the bank myself, later. It was
> indeed genuine.
>
> --
> Davey.
>

Of course you just need a music on hold device and leave them listening to
that till they get pissed off.
Nobody, it seems takes the telephone preference lists seriously. Even when
you report them, nothing seems to change.
Brian

--

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briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"The Natural Philosopher" <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:ujibdc$reve$2@dont-email.me...
> On 21/11/2023 12:28, Richmond wrote:
>> If someone phones me and asks me security questions for me to prove that
>> I am who they think I am, how is that ever going to work? We need a
>> solution to this problem.
>
> Ther is a very simple solution.
>
> Refuse to talk and ask them what phone number you should call them, back
> on.
> Then check that number.
>
>
> There are just so many scammers now, that
>> scamming is normal and genuine callers are unusual.
>
> Indeed.
>
> --
> To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.
>

Top posted response:

I screen the other way round. After a certain number of rings my
Panasonic unit goes to Message Record mode which announces "Please
name the person you wish to speak to, if they are available your call
will be answered, else please leave a message".

I can hear the call live and so if it is for someone here I can pick
up. Scammers go away usually as soon as the call goes to record. The
only down side is that I have a lengthy number of rings (14 I think)
and anyone impatient but not in my phone book might hang up.

AnthonyL

On Mon, 27 Nov 2023 11:30:31 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
<brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:

>Yes apart from the odd fiend, and nhs calls who withhold their numbers, most
>are sales or scams. I use truecall VI and it screens every call not on my
>white list and does not call my phone until the caller says who they are.
>This tends to put most call centre staff and scammers off, and they put
>their phones down. Of course it does mean that the with holders can get
>frightened off, but I try to tell these organisations and people that if
>they set a number, I could white list it.
> I think the most blatant scam going at the moment is crooks running lines
>that might cost 2 quid or so just to connect to, and they tend to call just
>your mobile with one ring. Then you are supposed to call back the missed
>call, and get a charge for connection The telecom folk seem very loathe to
>ban prefixes, and so the unwary can get billed. What I and Vodafone have
>done as a work around is to ban any outgoing calls from the phone to a
>number that has not been included in my free call plan, so they can waste
>their machines time calling me, but I won't be able to call them back.
>
>Brian
>
>--
>
>--:
>This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
>The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
>briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
>Blind user, so no pictures please
>Note this Signature is meaningless.!
>"Richmond" <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote in message
>news:83cyw3s32v.fsf@example.com...
>> If someone phones me and asks me security questions for me to prove that
>> I am who they think I am, how is that ever going to work? We need a
>> solution to this problem. There are just so many scammers now, that
>> scamming is normal and genuine callers are unusual.
>
>

Yes that did notworkfor me as it does not announce the callers number, so
being blind I rely on a white list.
Brian

--

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Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"AnthonyL" <nospam@please.invalid> wrote in message
news:6564860e.1051735140@news.eternal-september.org...
> Top posted response:
>
> I screen the other way round. After a certain number of rings my
> Panasonic unit goes to Message Record mode which announces "Please
> name the person you wish to speak to, if they are available your call
> will be answered, else please leave a message".
>
> I can hear the call live and so if it is for someone here I can pick
> up. Scammers go away usually as soon as the call goes to record. The
> only down side is that I have a lengthy number of rings (14 I think)
> and anyone impatient but not in my phone book might hang up.
>
> AnthonyL
>
> On Mon, 27 Nov 2023 11:30:31 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
> <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Yes apart from the odd fiend, and nhs calls who withhold their numbers,
>>most
>>are sales or scams. I use truecall VI and it screens every call not on my
>>white list and does not call my phone until the caller says who they are.
>>This tends to put most call centre staff and scammers off, and they put
>>their phones down. Of course it does mean that the with holders can get
>>frightened off, but I try to tell these organisations and people that if
>>they set a number, I could white list it.
>> I think the most blatant scam going at the moment is crooks running lines
>>that might cost 2 quid or so just to connect to, and they tend to call
>>just
>>your mobile with one ring. Then you are supposed to call back the missed
>>call, and get a charge for connection The telecom folk seem very loathe to
>>ban prefixes, and so the unwary can get billed. What I and Vodafone have
>>done as a work around is to ban any outgoing calls from the phone to a
>>number that has not been included in my free call plan, so they can waste
>>their machines time calling me, but I won't be able to call them back.
>>
>>Brian
>>
>>--
>>
>>--:
>>This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
>>The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
>>briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
>>Blind user, so no pictures please
>>Note this Signature is meaningless.!
>>"Richmond" <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote in message
>>news:83cyw3s32v.fsf@example.com...
>>> If someone phones me and asks me security questions for me to prove that
>>> I am who they think I am, how is that ever going to work? We need a
>>> solution to this problem. There are just so many scammers now, that
>>> scamming is normal and genuine callers are unusual.
>>
>>
>

I'm not sure I follow you. If someone announces that they wish to
speak to Brian, or Mr Gaff, would you not take it as a genuine call?

AnthonyL

On Tue, 28 Nov 2023 08:41:57 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
<brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:

>Yes that did notworkfor me as it does not announce the callers number, so
>being blind I rely on a white list.
> Brian
>
>--
>
>--:
>This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
>The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
>briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
>Blind user, so no pictures please
>Note this Signature is meaningless.!
>"AnthonyL" <nospam@please.invalid> wrote in message
>news:6564860e.1051735140@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Top posted response:
>>
>> I screen the other way round. After a certain number of rings my
>> Panasonic unit goes to Message Record mode which announces "Please
>> name the person you wish to speak to, if they are available your call
>> will be answered, else please leave a message".
>>
>> I can hear the call live and so if it is for someone here I can pick
>> up. Scammers go away usually as soon as the call goes to record. The
>> only down side is that I have a lengthy number of rings (14 I think)
>> and anyone impatient but not in my phone book might hang up.
>>
>> AnthonyL
>>
>> On Mon, 27 Nov 2023 11:30:31 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
>> <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Yes apart from the odd fiend, and nhs calls who withhold their numbers,
>>>most
>>>are sales or scams. I use truecall VI and it screens every call not on my
>>>white list and does not call my phone until the caller says who they are.
>>>This tends to put most call centre staff and scammers off, and they put
>>>their phones down. Of course it does mean that the with holders can get
>>>frightened off, but I try to tell these organisations and people that if
>>>they set a number, I could white list it.
>>> I think the most blatant scam going at the moment is crooks running lines
>>>that might cost 2 quid or so just to connect to, and they tend to call
>>>just
>>>your mobile with one ring. Then you are supposed to call back the missed
>>>call, and get a charge for connection The telecom folk seem very loathe to
>>>ban prefixes, and so the unwary can get billed. What I and Vodafone have
>>>done as a work around is to ban any outgoing calls from the phone to a
>>>number that has not been included in my free call plan, so they can waste
>>>their machines time calling me, but I won't be able to call them back.
>>>
>>>Brian
>>>
>>>--
>>>
>>>--:
>>>This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
>>>The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
>>>briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
>>>Blind user, so no pictures please
>>>Note this Signature is meaningless.!
>>>"Richmond" <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote in message
>>>news:83cyw3s32v.fsf@example.com...
>>>> If someone phones me and asks me security questions for me to prove that
>>>> I am who they think I am, how is that ever going to work? We need a
>>>> solution to this problem. There are just so many scammers now, that
>>>> scamming is normal and genuine callers are unusual.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

The scammers know who I am, so no, not really.
I imagine they look at the electoral roll etc and target people.
My call screener only fails when you get an organisation not willing to say
who they are up front, Sadly this seems to also mean the cheque clearance
system banks use will tend to call your mobile and put the phone down when
asked for who they are. Cannot see the problem but its probably due to it
being seen as an answering machine, which it is also, but its main purpose
is to stop cold callers.

Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"AnthonyL" <nospam@please.invalid> wrote in message
news:6566414d.1165206250@news.eternal-september.org...
> I'm not sure I follow you. If someone announces that they wish to
> speak to Brian, or Mr Gaff, would you not take it as a genuine call?
>
> AnthonyL
>
> On Tue, 28 Nov 2023 08:41:57 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
> <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Yes that did notworkfor me as it does not announce the callers number, so
>>being blind I rely on a white list.
>> Brian
>>
>>--
>>
>>--:
>>This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
>>The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
>>briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
>>Blind user, so no pictures please
>>Note this Signature is meaningless.!
>>"AnthonyL" <nospam@please.invalid> wrote in message
>>news:6564860e.1051735140@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> Top posted response:
>>>
>>> I screen the other way round. After a certain number of rings my
>>> Panasonic unit goes to Message Record mode which announces "Please
>>> name the person you wish to speak to, if they are available your call
>>> will be answered, else please leave a message".
>>>
>>> I can hear the call live and so if it is for someone here I can pick
>>> up. Scammers go away usually as soon as the call goes to record. The
>>> only down side is that I have a lengthy number of rings (14 I think)
>>> and anyone impatient but not in my phone book might hang up.
>>>
>>> AnthonyL
>>>
>>> On Mon, 27 Nov 2023 11:30:31 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
>>> <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Yes apart from the odd fiend, and nhs calls who withhold their numbers,
>>>>most
>>>>are sales or scams. I use truecall VI and it screens every call not on
>>>>my
>>>>white list and does not call my phone until the caller says who they
>>>>are.
>>>>This tends to put most call centre staff and scammers off, and they put
>>>>their phones down. Of course it does mean that the with holders can get
>>>>frightened off, but I try to tell these organisations and people that if
>>>>they set a number, I could white list it.
>>>> I think the most blatant scam going at the moment is crooks running
>>>> lines
>>>>that might cost 2 quid or so just to connect to, and they tend to call
>>>>just
>>>>your mobile with one ring. Then you are supposed to call back the missed
>>>>call, and get a charge for connection The telecom folk seem very loathe
>>>>to
>>>>ban prefixes, and so the unwary can get billed. What I and Vodafone have
>>>>done as a work around is to ban any outgoing calls from the phone to a
>>>>number that has not been included in my free call plan, so they can
>>>>waste
>>>>their machines time calling me, but I won't be able to call them back.
>>>>
>>>>Brian
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>
>>>>--:
>>>>This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
>>>>The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
>>>>briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
>>>>Blind user, so no pictures please
>>>>Note this Signature is meaningless.!
>>>>"Richmond" <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:83cyw3s32v.fsf@example.com...
>>>>> If someone phones me and asks me security questions for me to prove
>>>>> that
>>>>> I am who they think I am, how is that ever going to work? We need a
>>>>> solution to this problem. There are just so many scammers now, that
>>>>> scamming is normal and genuine callers are unusual.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

"Brian Gaff" <brian1gaff@gmail.com> writes:

> Yes apart from the odd fiend, and nhs calls who withhold their
> numbers, most are sales or scams. I use truecall VI and it screens
> every call not on my white list and does not call my phone until the
> caller says who they are. This tends to put most call centre staff
> and scammers off, and they put their phones down. Of course it does
> mean that the with holders can get frightened off, but I try to tell
> these organisations and people that if they set a number, I could
> white list it. I think the most blatant scam going at the moment is
> crooks running lines that might cost 2 quid or so just to connect to,
> and they tend to call just your mobile with one ring. Then you are
> supposed to call back the missed call, and get a charge for connection
> The telecom folk seem very loathe to ban prefixes, and so the unwary
> can get billed. What I and Vodafone have done as a work around is to
> ban any outgoing calls from the phone to a number that has not been
> included in my free call plan, so they can waste their machines time
> calling me, but I won't be able to call them back.
>

Truecall has a really useful feature which is to block wildcards, so you
can block whole area codes, e.g. 0131* block all of Edinburgh. It is a
shame it has come to that, but I would rather them not try over and over
until they guess the code.