After reading a comment on hackaday.com, where someone expressed
their car's fuel consumption as approximately one zettabarn, it got
me thinking.

Liters/100km, or m^3/m, is an area. You can visualize your car or
bike as consuming its fuel from a thin tube of infinite length,
aligned with the direction of travel.

So for the sake of argument, my Toyota Corolla might get approximately
30 US gallons per mile, or 7.84049 liters / 100 km, which works out
to 7.84049 x 10^-8 m^2.

In more familiar units, that's a circle of diameter approximately 0.3
mm. Please correct me if my math is wrong. Also you are encouraged
to investigate the hackaday commenter's zettabarn area figure...

Yet another way to visualize the incredible energy density of
hydrocarbon fuel.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

Mark Olson <olsonm@tiny.invalid> wrote:
> After reading a comment on hackaday.com, where someone expressed
> their car's fuel consumption as approximately one zettabarn, it got
> me thinking.
>
> Liters/100km, or m^3/m, is an area. You can visualize your car or
> bike as consuming its fuel from a thin tube of infinite length,
> aligned with the direction of travel.
>
> So for the sake of argument, my Toyota Corolla might get approximately
> 30 US gallons per mile, or 7.84049 liters / 100 km, which works out

Err, that should have been 30 miles/gallon.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

On 31/07/2023 23:41, Mark Olson wrote:

/lotsa snippages/

> So for the sake of argument, my Toyota Corolla might get approximately
> 30 US gallons per mile, or 7.84049 liters / 100 km, which works out
> to 7.84049 x 10^-8 m^2.

I haven't examined everything through a realityscope but through a
firstsightscope, don't you mean '30 US miles to the US gallon'

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 31/07/2023 23:48, Mark Olson wrote:
> Mark Olson <olsonm@tiny.invalid> wrote:
>> After reading a comment on hackaday.com, where someone expressed
>> their car's fuel consumption as approximately one zettabarn, it got
>> me thinking.
>>
>> Liters/100km, or m^3/m, is an area. You can visualize your car or
>> bike as consuming its fuel from a thin tube of infinite length,
>> aligned with the direction of travel.
>>
>> So for the sake of argument, my Toyota Corolla might get approximately
>> 30 US gallons per mile, or 7.84049 liters / 100 km, which works out
>
> Err, that should have been 30 miles/gallon.
>
Er - too quick on the draw innit.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 01/08/2023 00:54, RustyHinge wrote:
> On 31/07/2023 23:41, Mark Olson wrote:
>
>  /lotsa snippages/
>
> > So for the sake of argument, my Toyota Corolla might get approximately
> > 30 US gallons per mile, or 7.84049 liters / 100 km, which works out
> > to 7.84049 x 10^-8 m^2.
>
> I haven't examined everything through a realityscope but through a
> firstsightscope, don't you mean '30 US miles to the US gallon'
>
>

Since when have US miles been different from UK ones?

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

YTC#1 wrote:

> Since when have US miles been different from UK ones?

Depends *which* US mile you're talking about, their survey miles were
about 1/8" per mile different from international statute miles until the
end of 2022. I don't think they redefined anything, just decided not to
use the survey versions.

<https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/10/17/2019-22414/deprecation-of-the-united-states-us-survey-foot>

On 31/07/2023 23:41, Mark Olson wrote:
> After reading a comment on hackaday.com, where someone expressed
> their car's fuel consumption as approximately one zettabarn, it got
> me thinking.

Searching for the word "zettabarn" using the site's search facility came
up with nothing so most of what follows has probably already been
discussed to death.

>
> Liters/100km, or m^3/m, is an area. You can visualize your car or
> bike as consuming its fuel from a thin tube of infinite length,
> aligned with the direction of travel.

Here's a paradox for you...

Instead of an infinite pipe imagine a jerry can at the start of each
mile and that provides the fuel for you.

Then double the number of cans, halve the distance between them and
halve the fuel in each.

Keep halving until it is more effective to have the continuous pipe that
you describe rather than cans, where a short length of the pipe holds
the fuel that would have been in the can.

Keep halving many more times until you eventually have an infinitely
small length of fuel in the pipe for that infinitely small amount of travel.

An infinitely small amount of fuel is the same as none at all so your
fuel economy is fantastic and you don't need the pipe any more!

PS, the petrol pump attendant's name is Zeno and he's busy trying to
fill up the infinitely long pipe. :-)

>
> So for the sake of argument, my Toyota Corolla might get approximately
> 30 US gallons per mile, or 7.84049 liters / 100 km, which works out
> to 7.84049 x 10^-8 m^2.
>
> In more familiar units, that's a circle of diameter approximately 0.3
> mm. Please correct me if my math is wrong. Also you are encouraged
> to investigate the hackaday commenter's zettabarn area figure...
>
> Yet another way to visualize the incredible energy density of
> hydrocarbon fuel.

I say pah to your feeble hydrocarbon energy density!

<https://xkcd.com/1162/>

--
Bruce Horrocks
FJR1300AS

On 01/08/2023 10:09, Andy Burns wrote:
> YTC#1 wrote:
>
>> Since when have US miles been different from UK ones?
>
> Depends *which* US mile you're talking about, their survey miles were
> about 1/8" per mile different from international statute miles until the
> end of 2022.  I don't think they redefined anything, just decided not to
> use the survey versions.
>
> <https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/10/17/2019-22414/deprecation-of-the-united-states-us-survey-foot>

And these people got a man to the moon....

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

Bruce Horrocks <07.013@scorecrow.com> wrote:
> On 31/07/2023 23:41, Mark Olson wrote:

>> Yet another way to visualize the incredible energy density of
>> hydrocarbon fuel.
>
> I say pah to your feeble hydrocarbon energy density!
>
> <https://xkcd.com/1162/>

I should have known someone would mention that one.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> YTC#1 wrote:
>
>> Since when have US miles been different from UK ones?
>
> Depends *which* US mile you're talking about, their survey miles were
> about 1/8" per mile different from international statute miles until the
> end of 2022. I don't think they redefined anything, just decided not to
> use the survey versions.
>
> <https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/10/17/2019-22414/deprecation-of-the-united-states-us-survey-foot>

"No compelling justification to maintain two definitions for the
foot exists"

Well, duh.

Interesting reading, though.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 22:41:02 -0000 (UTC), Mark Olson
<olsonm@tiny.invalid> wrote:

>After reading a comment on hackaday.com, where someone expressed
>their car's fuel consumption as approximately one zettabarn, it got
>me thinking.
>
>Liters/100km, or m^3/m, is an area. You can visualize your car or
>bike as consuming its fuel from a thin tube of infinite length,
>aligned with the direction of travel.
>
>So for the sake of argument, my Toyota Corolla might get approximately
>30 US gallons per mile, or 7.84049 liters / 100 km, which works out
>to 7.84049 x 10^-8 m^2.
>
>In more familiar units, that's a circle of diameter approximately 0.3
>mm. Please correct me if my math is wrong. Also you are encouraged
>to investigate the hackaday commenter's zettabarn area figure...

Well, a barn is 10^-28 square metres, I think [confirmed by Google
just now]: used in nuclear physics to describe things like neutron
capture cross sections. Literally as in the expression "broad side of
a...."

Google tells me that zetta- numeric prefix is one sextillion.

--

-Pip

Pipl <pluscher@live.co.uk> wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Jul 2023 22:41:02 -0000 (UTC), Mark Olson
> <olsonm@tiny.invalid> wrote:
>
>>After reading a comment on hackaday.com, where someone expressed
>>their car's fuel consumption as approximately one zettabarn, it got
>>me thinking.
>>
>>Liters/100km, or m^3/m, is an area. You can visualize your car or
>>bike as consuming its fuel from a thin tube of infinite length,
>>aligned with the direction of travel.
>>
>>So for the sake of argument, my Toyota Corolla might get approximately
>>30 US gallons per mile, or 7.84049 liters / 100 km, which works out
>>to 7.84049 x 10^-8 m^2.
>>
>>In more familiar units, that's a circle of diameter approximately 0.3
>>mm. Please correct me if my math is wrong. Also you are encouraged
>>to investigate the hackaday commenter's zettabarn area figure...
>
>
> Well, a barn is 10^-28 square metres, I think [confirmed by Google
> just now]: used in nuclear physics to describe things like neutron
> capture cross sections. Literally as in the expression "broad side of
> a...."

I have to confess the "barn" as a unit of area was new to me.

> Google tells me that zetta- numeric prefix is one sextillion.

Correct.

7.8 * 10^-8 m^2 /(10^-28 m^2/barn) = 7.8 * 10^20 barn, or 0.78 zettabarn.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

On 01/08/2023 14:04, YTC#1 wrote:
>
>
> On 01/08/2023 10:09, Andy Burns wrote:
>> YTC#1 wrote:
>>
>>> Since when have US miles been different from UK ones?
>>
>> Depends *which* US mile you're talking about, their survey miles were
>> about 1/8" per mile different from international statute miles until
>> the end of 2022.  I don't think they redefined anything, just decided
>> not to use the survey versions.
>>
>> <https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/10/17/2019-22414/deprecation-of-the-united-states-us-survey-foot>
>>
>
> And these people got a man to the moon....

Just.

'S quite a large target when you're there.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 8/1/2023 6:04 AM, YTC#1 wrote:
>
>
> On 01/08/2023 10:09, Andy Burns wrote:
>> YTC#1 wrote:
>>
>>> Since when have US miles been different from UK ones?
>>
>> Depends *which* US mile you're talking about, their survey miles were
>> about 1/8" per mile different from international statute miles until
>> the end of 2022.  I don't think they redefined anything, just decided
>> not to use the survey versions.
>>
>> <https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/10/17/2019-22414/deprecation-of-the-united-states-us-survey-foot>
>
> And these people got a man to the moon....
>
More importantly, got them back.

It's not that trivial when you consider the difference in distance to
the moon would be a bit less than 1/2 mile.
"Earth to Moon. Your supply package should be landing now."
"Moon to Earth. Where is it? We cannot see it."

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS & ST1100 (in memoriam)

On 01/08/2023 14:04, YTC#1 wrote:
>
>
> On 01/08/2023 10:09, Andy Burns wrote:
>> YTC#1 wrote:
>>
>>> Since when have US miles been different from UK ones?
>>
>> Depends *which* US mile you're talking about, their survey miles were
>> about 1/8" per mile different from international statute miles until
>> the end of 2022.  I don't think they redefined anything, just decided
>> not to use the survey versions.
>>
>> <https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2019/10/17/2019-22414/deprecation-of-the-united-states-us-survey-foot>
>
> And these people got a man to the moon....
>
>
Well it was along time ago...

In fact only about ten years after the two definitions appear to have
been established?
The things some people will do so as not to be 'too British!'

Chris
--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk