Now this is one of my favourite subjects and I have had quite a few
tents over the years from cheapey festival tents (absolute rubbish) to
my latest motorbike touring tent, a fairly high end MSR (best one I've
had so far) via various mid range Vangos (excellent VFM) and Colemans
(also good VFM).

The target this time is an adult couple (me and her) leisurely motoring
(in old Jag [1]) around Europe staying in places for a few days at a
time.

I have a five person Vango Winslow tent which stood up well to the
bloody vile weather [2] of the last few weeks.

And has done a good couple of years service for various holidays and
events.
https://www.charlies.co.uk/vango-winslow-ii-500-tent-herbal-green.html

However, it has a couple of failings. It's a tunnel tent which require
a certain amount of patience to get right, the door is a poor design
and water drains inside everytime you open it (in said fucking vile
weather) and that alone was irritating me.

However, its biggest failing is it's bloody massive (that in itself is
not a failing) but the pitching time, pole faff, physical size and pack
size is a problem.

Now I had seen one of these (Khyam always a top end make)
https://khyam.co.uk/products/biker-plus-special-edition-quick-pitch-tent

The biker nonsense is neither here nor there but it would fit the bill,
nice sitting in porch area (camping table and two chairs), able to
stand up, large enough bedroom, sewn in groundsheets, easy to deploy
poles and a smaller pack size.

BUT - the price is a bit much (GBP £530)

Does anyone know of something similar but not over £500?

[1] Although for "reasons" we went in her VW Golf this time.
[2] Ogden was right.

--
Simon

On 07/08/2023 07:50, sweller wrote:
> Now this is one of my favourite subjects and I have had quite a few
> tents over the years from cheapey festival tents (absolute rubbish) to
> my latest motorbike touring tent, a fairly high end MSR (best one I've
> had so far) via various mid range Vangos (excellent VFM) and Colemans
> (also good VFM).
>
> The target this time is an adult couple (me and her) leisurely motoring
> (in old Jag [1]) around Europe staying in places for a few days at a
> time.
>
> I have a five person Vango Winslow tent which stood up well to the
> bloody vile weather [2] of the last few weeks.
>
> And has done a good couple of years service for various holidays and
> events.
> https://www.charlies.co.uk/vango-winslow-ii-500-tent-herbal-green.html
>
> However, it has a couple of failings. It's a tunnel tent which require
> a certain amount of patience to get right, the door is a poor design
> and water drains inside everytime you open it (in said fucking vile
> weather) and that alone was irritating me.
>
> However, its biggest failing is it's bloody massive (that in itself is
> not a failing) but the pitching time, pole faff, physical size and pack
> size is a problem.
>
> Now I had seen one of these (Khyam always a top end make)
> https://khyam.co.uk/products/biker-plus-special-edition-quick-pitch-tent
>
> The biker nonsense is neither here nor there but it would fit the bill,
> nice sitting in porch area (camping table and two chairs), able to
> stand up, large enough bedroom, sewn in groundsheets, easy to deploy
> poles and a smaller pack size.
>
> BUT - the price is a bit much (GBP £530)
>
> Does anyone know of something similar but not over £500?
>
>
>
>
> [1] Although for "reasons" we went in her VW Golf this time.
> [2] Ogden was right.
>
I bought a Black's Mountain tent with my 21st moneyand <Iain
Paisley>never</Rev> regretted it. Dunno if it's still manufactured
though. " person, sewn-in groundsheet, exterior 'A' poles, optional
flysheet, no standupee though. Flap round brailings/groundsheet
interface as anchor on stony ground where pegs won't penetrate - just
find a few boulders, ventilation canvas tube with aertex end to exclude
insects. The flysheet (which in my case I did not have) made a porch by
extending well over the front.

Uncheap.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 07/08/2023 07:50, sweller wrote:
> Now this is one of my favourite subjects and I have had quite a few
> tents over the years from cheapey festival tents (absolute rubbish) to
> my latest motorbike touring tent, a fairly high end MSR (best one I've
> had so far) via various mid range Vangos (excellent VFM) and Colemans
> (also good VFM).
>
> The target this time is an adult couple (me and her) leisurely motoring
> (in old Jag [1]) around Europe staying in places for a few days at a
> time.
>
> I have a five person Vango Winslow tent which stood up well to the
> bloody vile weather [2] of the last few weeks.
>
> And has done a good couple of years service for various holidays and
> events.
> https://www.charlies.co.uk/vango-winslow-ii-500-tent-herbal-green.html
>
> However, it has a couple of failings. It's a tunnel tent which require
> a certain amount of patience to get right, the door is a poor design
> and water drains inside everytime you open it (in said fucking vile
> weather) and that alone was irritating me.
>
> However, its biggest failing is it's bloody massive (that in itself is
> not a failing) but the pitching time, pole faff, physical size and pack
> size is a problem.
>
> Now I had seen one of these (Khyam always a top end make)
> https://khyam.co.uk/products/biker-plus-special-edition-quick-pitch-tent
>
> The biker nonsense is neither here nor there but it would fit the bill,
> nice sitting in porch area (camping table and two chairs), able to
> stand up, large enough bedroom, sewn in groundsheets, easy to deploy
> poles and a smaller pack size.
>
> BUT - the price is a bit much (GBP £530)
>
> Does anyone know of something similar but not over £500?
>
>
>
>
> [1] Although for "reasons" we went in her VW Golf this time.
> [2] Ogden was right.
>

SWMBO is the tent aficionado. Currently at a folk festival where it
poured with rain on arrival. Normally she would put up her Outwell air
tent. Due to the access Somme proportions mud she used her small tent (I
forget what it is). The air tent is very heavy, large when packed, but
quick to get up and roomy.

We had a Khyam tent back in our last years of touring with a tent,
including taking the lad in the sidecar to TT practice week. It was
excellent. Looked pretty much identical to that.

The Khyam Motordome awning we had for ten years using the Granvia
campervan was also excellent.

Not cheap, but when I had an incident that resulted in bending/breaking
a part trying to back the Granvia out of a very tight slot next to it on
a camp site in the Picos, a replacement was easily available and quickly
fitted.

--
Moto Morini 2C/375
Gilera 175 Sport, Husqvarna 401 Svartpilen
Honda CB250RS (Not Waynetta!)
"Do not adjust your mind, there is a fault in the reality"

On 07/08/2023 07:50, sweller wrote:
< snip >
> Now I had seen one of these (Khyam always a top end make)
> https://khyam.co.uk/products/biker-plus-special-edition-quick-pitch-tent
>
> The biker nonsense is neither here nor there but it would fit the bill,
> nice sitting in porch area (camping table and two chairs), able to
> stand up, large enough bedroom, sewn in groundsheets, easy to deploy
> poles and a smaller pack size.
>
> BUT - the price is a bit much (GBP £530)
>
> Does anyone know of something similar but not over £500?

Similar size, lighter weight, smaller pack size, cheaper price
https://alpkit.com/products/axiom-4

Create an account before purchasing and you'll get 10% back in reward
vouchers for your next purchase.

--
Eddie eddie@deguello.org

On 07/08/2023 07:50, sweller wrote:
> Now this is one of my favourite subjects and I have had quite a few
<snip>

>
> Now I had seen one of these (Khyam always a top end make)
> https://khyam.co.uk/products/biker-plus-special-edition-quick-pitch-tent
>
> The biker nonsense is neither here nor there but it would fit the bill,
> nice sitting in porch area (camping table and two chairs), able to
> stand up, large enough bedroom, sewn in groundsheets, easy to deploy
> poles and a smaller pack size.
>
> BUT - the price is a bit much (GBP £530)
>
> Does anyone know of something similar but not over £500?

Not exactly similar, but.
On the recent cycle ride we used the same Vango Banshee that we have
used in South America.
I hated it then, I hated it now.

Lousy in rain, but light weight.

We have just bought a Vango Scafell
https://www.vango.co.uk/cs/camping/3054-scafell-300-plus.html

This has the magic porch. So far is sitable in. But bum on floor not seat.

Weight wasn't an issue as I reckon on extra 1kg is worth the comfort :-)

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 07/08/2023 07:50, sweller wrote:
/snippages/
> However, its biggest failing is it's bloody massive (that in itself is
> not a failing) but the pitching time, pole faff, physical size and pack
> size is a problem.

Come to think of it, have a deep search on the 'Itsa' - sleeps 2 or 3,
one-side-elongated bell tent, stand-up near middle, sewn-in groundsheet,
fly if wanted, middle or A-pole.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

sweller wrote:
> Now I had seen one of these (Khyam always a top end make)
> https://khyam.co.uk/products/biker-plus-special-edition-quick-pitch-tent

I've got the normal sized version of that and it's great. Only takes a couple of minutes to put up and take down. Only downside, as I remember from past trips, is it's always the first tent up which means having to buy the first round.

> BUT - the price is a bit much (GBP £530)

Does a union baron salary not stretch that far?

If I've learned one thing it's pay the price for the thing you actually want, because you'll regret trying to server money buying anything else.

> [2] Ogden was right.

It has been known to happen.

I'm glad I deferred this trip. First couple of days have been a little damp, and the ride up into the Black Forest was absolutely filthy, but I keep reminding myself I've raced in worse and it should be all sunshine for the rest of the trip.

On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 13:17:12 +0100, RustyHinge
<rusty.hinge@foobar.girolle.co.uk> wrote:

>On 07/08/2023 07:50, sweller wrote:
>/snippages/
>> However, its biggest failing is it's bloody massive (that in itself is
>> not a failing) but the pitching time, pole faff, physical size and pack
>> size is a problem.
>
>Come to think of it, have a deep search on the 'Itsa' - sleeps 2 or 3,
>one-side-elongated bell tent, stand-up near middle, sewn-in groundsheet,
>fly if wanted, middle or A-pole.

Generally, a 3-man is a 2-man plus stuff. In fact, for tents up to
about 4 persons, subtract 1. After that, subtract 2 if you want to be
comfortable.

I suspect a 2-3 man is barely a 2-man + stuff.

--

-Pip

In article <kjbii6FshoU1@mid.individual.net>, sweller says...
>
> Now this is one of my favourite subjects and I have had quite a few
> tents over the years from cheapey festival tents (absolute rubbish) to
> my latest motorbike touring tent, a fairly high end MSR (best one I've
> had so far) via various mid range Vangos (excellent VFM) and Colemans
> (also good VFM).
>
> BUT - the price is a bit much (GBP £530)
>
> Does anyone know of something similar but not over £500?

Both sub £500

https://www.costco.co.uk/Sports-Spas-Leisure/Camping/Tents-Shelters/Vango-Capri-III-400-AirBeam-4-
Person-Family-Tent/p/342038

https://www.costco.co.uk/Sports-Spas-Leisure/Camping/Tents-Shelters/Vango-Solaris-II-500-AirBeam-5-
Person-Family-Tent/p/342017

Pipl <pluscher@live.co.uk> wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 13:17:12 +0100, RustyHinge
> <rusty.hinge@foobar.girolle.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>On 07/08/2023 07:50, sweller wrote:
>>/snippages/
>>> However, its biggest failing is it's bloody massive (that in itself is
>>> not a failing) but the pitching time, pole faff, physical size and pack
>>> size is a problem.
>>
>>Come to think of it, have a deep search on the 'Itsa' - sleeps 2 or 3,
>>one-side-elongated bell tent, stand-up near middle, sewn-in groundsheet,
>>fly if wanted, middle or A-pole.
>
> Generally, a 3-man is a 2-man plus stuff. In fact, for tents up to
> about 4 persons, subtract 1. After that, subtract 2 if you want to be
> comfortable.
>
> I suspect a 2-3 man is barely a 2-man + stuff.

My suit, boots and helmet alone pretty much take up 1 man's worth
of space. My tent for solo moto camping is a Marmot Ajax 3, which is
supposed to be a 3-man, but I think it's just big enough for me and
my gear. I can't honestly see how it could accommodate 2 people plus
their moto gear.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

On 07/08/2023 23:33, Mark Olson wrote:
> Pipl <pluscher@live.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 13:17:12 +0100, RustyHinge
>> <rusty.hinge@foobar.girolle.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 07/08/2023 07:50, sweller wrote:
>>> /snippages/
>>>> However, its biggest failing is it's bloody massive (that in itself is
>>>> not a failing) but the pitching time, pole faff, physical size and pack
>>>> size is a problem.
>>>
>>> Come to think of it, have a deep search on the 'Itsa' - sleeps 2 or 3,
>>> one-side-elongated bell tent, stand-up near middle, sewn-in groundsheet,
>>> fly if wanted, middle or A-pole.
>>
>> Generally, a 3-man is a 2-man plus stuff. In fact, for tents up to
>> about 4 persons, subtract 1. After that, subtract 2 if you want to be
>> comfortable.
>>
>> I suspect a 2-3 man is barely a 2-man + stuff.
>
> My suit, boots and helmet alone pretty much take up 1 man's worth
> of space. My tent for solo moto camping is a Marmot Ajax 3, which is
> supposed to be a 3-man, but I think it's just big enough for me and
> my gear. I can't honestly see how it could accommodate 2 people plus
> their moto gear.
>
Process of reverse origami?

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 07/08/2023 19:04, Pipl wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 13:17:12 +0100, RustyHinge
> <rusty.hinge@foobar.girolle.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 07/08/2023 07:50, sweller wrote:
>> /snippages/
>>> However, its biggest failing is it's bloody massive (that in itself is
>>> not a failing) but the pitching time, pole faff, physical size and pack
>>> size is a problem.
>>
>> Come to think of it, have a deep search on the 'Itsa' - sleeps 2 or 3,
>> one-side-elongated bell tent, stand-up near middle, sewn-in groundsheet,
>> fly if wanted, middle or A-pole.
>
> Generally, a 3-man is a 2-man plus stuff. In fact, for tents up to
> about 4 persons, subtract 1. After that, subtract 2 if you want to be
> comfortable.
>
> I suspect a 2-3 man is barely a 2-man + stuff.
>
>

AOL

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 07/08/2023 19:04, Pipl wrote:

>Generally, a 3-man is a 2-man plus stuff. In fact, for tents up to
>about 4 persons, subtract 1. After that, subtract 2 if you want to be
>comfortable.
>
>I suspect a 2-3 man is barely a 2-man + stuff.
>
Exactly, we had a 6-man with two kids and now a Coleman Verspucci 4 is very
comfortable with two of us. A Coleman awning is a very useful addition and
fits most tents.1

--
Geoff
NTV 650

ogden wrote:

> > BUT - the price is a bit much (GBP £530)
>
> Does a union baron salary not stretch that far?

I think it is going tpo have to - the other problem is they don't seem
to be in stock.

> If I've learned one thing it's pay the price for the thing you
> actually want,

Yes, this is becoming increasingly obvious. I have also learnt it's
worth buying decent camping gear.

I've worked out I do a fair bit of camping.

--
Simon

petrolcan wrote:

> > Does anyone know of something similar but not over £500?
>
> Both sub £500
>
>
https://www.costco.co.uk/Sports-Spas-Leisure/Camping/Tents-Shelters/Vango-Capri-III-400-AirBeam-4-
> Person-Family-Tent/p/342038
>
>
https://www.costco.co.uk/Sports-Spas-Leisure/Camping/Tents-Shelters/Vango-Solaris-II-500-AirBeam-5-
> Person-Family-Tent/p/342017

I'm a big fan of Vango, pretty good quality at a reasonable price - so
will have a closer look at. There's also a Harris 350.

They all solve the door design problem and have other benefits (blacked
out sleeping compartments, full sewn in groundsheets etc.) but they do
seem to be fans of the tunnel tent arrangement.

They have their head office in Port Glasgow - I go through there semi
regularly so may pop in and see it in the flesh.

--
Simon

Eddie wrote:

> > Does anyone know of something similar but not over £500?
>
> Similar size, lighter weight, smaller pack size, cheaper price
> https://alpkit.com/products/axiom-4
>
> Create an account before purchasing and you'll get 10% back in reward
> vouchers for your next purchase.

I'm a big fan of Alpkit and that looks like just the job.

But...

Not having dark sleeping compartments or a sewn in groundsheet in the
"living room" does seem a bit of a let down. In wet weather the water
will run into the living area under the sides and it'll becoming a bit
muddy very quickly or pool on a separate groundsheet.

--
Simon

On 10/08/2023 11:39, sweller wrote:
> Eddie wrote:
>
>> Similar size, lighter weight, smaller pack size, cheaper price
>> https://alpkit.com/products/axiom-4
>>
>> Create an account before purchasing and you'll get 10% back in reward
>> vouchers for your next purchase.
>
> I'm a big fan of Alpkit and that looks like just the job.
>
> But...
>
> Not having dark sleeping compartments or a sewn in groundsheet in the
> "living room" does seem a bit of a let down. In wet weather the water
> will run into the living area under the sides and it'll becoming a bit
> muddy very quickly or pool on a separate groundsheet.

I don't find that dark sleeping compartments make much difference, but I
usually take an eye mask anyway.

Good point about the groundsheet though, hadn't spotted that.

--
Eddie eddie@deguello.org

Pipl wrote:

> > Come to think of it, have a deep search on the 'Itsa' - sleeps 2 or
> > 3, one-side-elongated bell tent, stand-up near middle, sewn-in
> > groundsheet, fly if wanted, middle or A-pole.
>
> Generally, a 3-man is a 2-man plus stuff. In fact, for tents up to
> about 4 persons, subtract 1. After that, subtract 2 if you want to be
> comfortable.
>
> I suspect a 2-3 man is barely a 2-man + stuff.

Always the way.

Bike gear counts as one person straight away. For bike camping I've
got a 3 man MSR Elixir (as does Mark R, I copied him).

Great tent for one person, camp bed/cot, bike gear and luggage. I've
also used for actual backpacking along the Southdowns way with two
people and a rucksack.

--
Simon

Eddie wrote:

> Good point about the groundsheet though, hadn't spotted that.

That's the big problem. Shame really as it looks good.

--
Simon

On 10/08/2023 11:51, Eddie wrote:
> On 10/08/2023 11:39, sweller wrote:
>> Eddie wrote:
>>
>>> Similar size, lighter weight, smaller pack size, cheaper price
>>> https://alpkit.com/products/axiom-4
>>>
>>> Create an account before purchasing and you'll get 10% back in reward
>>> vouchers for your next purchase.
>>
>> I'm a big fan of Alpkit and that looks like just the job.
>>
>> But...
>>
>> Not having dark sleeping compartments or a sewn in groundsheet in the
>> "living room" does seem a bit of a let down.  In wet weather the water
>> will run into the living area under the sides and it'll becoming a bit
>> muddy very quickly or pool on a separate groundsheet.
>
> I don't find that dark sleeping compartments make much difference, but I
> usually take an eye mask anyway.
>
> Good point about the groundsheet though, hadn't spotted that.
>

I'd say the opposite. When it is wet and shitty out, if the ground sheet
is not sewn you can fold it back, leave muddy boots etc on grass.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On Thu, 10 Aug 2023 11:51:37 +0100, Eddie <eddie@deguello.org> wrote:

>On 10/08/2023 11:39, sweller wrote:
>> Eddie wrote:
>>
>>> Similar size, lighter weight, smaller pack size, cheaper price
>>> https://alpkit.com/products/axiom-4
>>>
>>> Create an account before purchasing and you'll get 10% back in reward
>>> vouchers for your next purchase.
>>
>> I'm a big fan of Alpkit and that looks like just the job.
>>
>> But...
>>
>> Not having dark sleeping compartments or a sewn in groundsheet in the
>> "living room" does seem a bit of a let down. In wet weather the water
>> will run into the living area under the sides and it'll becoming a bit
>> muddy very quickly or pool on a separate groundsheet.
>
>I don't find that dark sleeping compartments make much difference, but I
>usually take an eye mask anyway.

I find that they merely make the tent interior a bit gloomy and have
little effect on morning light waking one up.

>Good point about the groundsheet though, hadn't spotted that.

Definitely.

--

-Pip

YTC#1 wrote:

> > Good point about the groundsheet though, hadn't spotted that.
> >
>
> I'd say the opposite. When it is wet and shitty out, if the ground
> sheet is not sewn you can fold it back, leave muddy boots etc on
> grass.

If it's raining the water runs across the sheet and pools.

If it's super shitty weather with a sewn in sheet I use a piece of
cardboard as an ersatz door mat to counter the muddy boots problem.

--
Simon

Pipl wrote:

> > I don't find that dark sleeping compartments make much difference,
> > but I usually take an eye mask anyway.
>
> I find that they merely make the tent interior a bit gloomy and have
> little effect on morning light waking one up.

I quite like them. My MSR backpacking tent doesn't have one so it's
not a massive problem but they seem to be teh norm now.

--
Simon

On 11/08/2023 12:03, sweller wrote:
> YTC#1 wrote:
>
>>> Good point about the groundsheet though, hadn't spotted that.
>>>
>>
>> I'd say the opposite. When it is wet and shitty out, if the ground
>> sheet is not sewn you can fold it back, leave muddy boots etc on
>> grass.
>
> If it's raining the water runs across the sheet and pools.
>
> If it's super shitty weather with a sewn in sheet I use a piece of
> cardboard as an ersatz door mat to counter the muddy boots problem.
>
You can always roll-up the sides of a detached groundsheet to prevent
water getting on to it.

Alternatively, get a sleeping bag with a waterproof underside.

Anyway, mostly, you don't have to be an Oliver camper - ("you gotta pick
a puddle or two..")

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 11/08/2023 12:03, sweller wrote:
> YTC#1 wrote:
>
>>> Good point about the groundsheet though, hadn't spotted that.
>>>
>>
>> I'd say the opposite. When it is wet and shitty out, if the ground
>> sheet is not sewn you can fold it back, leave muddy boots etc on
>> grass.
>
> If it's raining the water runs across the sheet and pools.
Not if you roll it back

>
> If it's super shitty weather with a sewn in sheet I use a piece of
> cardboard as an ersatz door mat to counter the muddy boots problem.

Yeah, we all carry some extra cardboard on our bikes :-)
>

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/