I bought a motolug bike trailer some years ago and put it 'in the shed'.

Picking up a bike tomorrow so thought it would be a good time to use it.

Got it out the shed, blew the cobwebs off, put it together and plugged it
in. Hmm... some of the rear lights don't work. Took it apart and there's
a fair amount of corrosion on the bulb sockets, cleaned that up, fixed the
left hand but not the right, got the meter (checked voltages) and everything
*looks* fine.

Cursed a bit and moved the light fitment from left to right; fault stays so
it's the wiring. Check car socket on another trailer; all fine. Take trailer
plug apart and remake connections. No improvement.

Look, carefully at wiring (after two hours in the sun) and find a suspicious
bulge in the cable, strip the tape off... and sure enough, there it is, the
bodgers friend insulation displacement splices (scotchlock ones). How I
hate these things; they always seem to vibrate loose, when put on under tension the wire gradually creeps out and makes poor contact.

Of course, I forgot the obvious thing when measuring voltage with the
meter, the meter's got a very high resistance, the bulb is (almost) a
short. The meter draws minimal current so there isn't much in the
way of voltage drop across the poor connection. Put a bulb in circuit
and suddenly all the volts are dropping across the bodger's friends
further upstream.

Replaced all four of the Scotchlocks with proper solderered[1] joints
and heatshrink. Add a large cable tie for 'cable strengthening' and
then cover with electrical tape again. All working.

[1] Modern solder really is shit. When I started messing about with car
and bike electrics the solder actually worked. You could take a (slightly)
tarnished and oxidised wire and the acid flux core/lead solder would melt,
clean the tarnishing and then wet the wire. These days it's so much harder.
I know my soldering skills aren't what they were but I suspect the modern
flux and solder doesn't help. Oh for the days of cancerous industrial
compounds and workers dying in their early sixties...

On 23/08/2023 16:15, Stephen Packer wrote:

>
> [1] Modern solder really is shit. When I started messing about with car
> and bike electrics the solder actually worked. You could take a (slightly)
> tarnished and oxidised wire and the acid flux core/lead solder would melt,
> clean the tarnishing and then wet the wire. These days it's so much harder.
> I know my soldering skills aren't what they were but I suspect the modern
> flux and solder doesn't help. Oh for the days of cancerous industrial
> compounds and workers dying in their early sixties...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225464766264 I believe is the same as old
stuff. I've still got loads left.

--
/Simon

siwilson <siwilson@nodamnspamn.hotmail.com> wrote in
news:kkmmgiF127oU1@mid.individual.net:

> On 23/08/2023 16:15, Stephen Packer wrote:
>
>>
>> [1] Modern solder really is shit. When I started messing about with
>> car and bike electrics the solder actually worked. You could take a
>> (slightly) tarnished and oxidised wire and the acid flux core/lead
>> solder would melt, clean the tarnishing and then wet the wire. These
>> days it's so much harder. I know my soldering skills aren't what they
>> were but I suspect the modern flux and solder doesn't help. Oh for
>> the days of cancerous industrial compounds and workers dying in their
>> early sixties...
>
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225464766264 I believe is the same as old
> stuff. I've still got loads left.
>

rosin flux core, that's the stuff

and I agree, modern solder is crap. I have a reel of the stuff we started
using at Xerox in the late 90s.

I've dipped wire into vinegar to dissolve the oxide if the crap solder is
not keen to flow properly

On 23/08/2023 16:21, siwilson wrote:
> On 23/08/2023 16:15, Stephen Packer wrote:
>
>>
>> [1] Modern solder really is shit.  When I started messing about with car
>> and bike electrics the solder actually worked.  You could take a
>> (slightly)
>> tarnished and oxidised wire and the acid flux core/lead solder would
>> melt,
>> clean the tarnishing and then wet the wire.  These days it's so much
>> harder.
>> I know my soldering skills aren't what they were but I suspect the modern
>> flux and solder doesn't help.  Oh for the days of cancerous industrial
>> compounds and workers dying in their early sixties...
>
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225464766264 I believe is the same as old
> stuff. I've still got loads left.
>
"Me too"
I figure that my little stockpile will last me out...

Chris
--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On Wednesday, 23 August 2023 at 16:21:57 UTC+1, siwilson wrote:
> On 23/08/2023 16:15, Stephen Packer wrote:
>
> >
> > [1] Modern solder really is shit. When I started messing about with car
> > and bike electrics the solder actually worked. You could take a (slightly)
> > tarnished and oxidised wire and the acid flux core/lead solder would melt,
> > clean the tarnishing and then wet the wire. These days it's so much harder.
> > I know my soldering skills aren't what they were but I suspect the modern
> > flux and solder doesn't help. Oh for the days of cancerous industrial
> > compounds and workers dying in their early sixties...
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225464766264 I believe is the same as old
> stuff. I've still got loads left.

HFM!!!

£50 for a 500g^W 1lb roll.

Still tempted to purchase but have bought a metre first.

On Wednesday, 23 August 2023 at 17:05:24 UTC+1, wessie wrote:

> rosin flux core, that's the stuff
>
> and I agree, modern solder is crap. I have a reel of the stuff we started
> using at Xerox in the late 90s.
>
> I've dipped wire into vinegar to dissolve the oxide if the crap solder is
> not keen to flow properly

Handy tip. Will try... but will try the other solder first.

On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 08:15:14 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
<stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:

>[1] Modern solder really is shit.

Lead free solder. If you're quick and get it to flow first time then
you'll get a reasonable joint. There are flux pens etc. that make a
dry joint shiny with just a touch of the iron to reflow it.

--

-Pip

Pipl <pluscher@live.co.uk> wrote in
news:qcucei9mtj2fme17cbiqg644tetoorrf3g@4ax.com:

> On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 08:15:14 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
> <stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>[1] Modern solder really is shit.
>
> Lead free solder. If you're quick and get it to flow first time then
> you'll get a reasonable joint. There are flux pens etc. that make a
> dry joint shiny with just a touch of the iron to reflow it.
>

I'm using the stuff that came in after rosin solder was phased out in Xerox
manufacturing, taken in 2002 when they made me redundant. Still lead based
at that time, but no flux cores. On the reworking stations we had bottles
of liquid flux and bottles of isoprol cleaner so I'm not sure we were
making any less pollution up the extraction spouts.

Stephen Packer <stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:

> Of course, I forgot the obvious thing when measuring voltage with the
> meter, the meter's got a very high resistance, the bulb is (almost) a
> short. The meter draws minimal current so there isn't much in the
> way of voltage drop across the poor connection. Put a bulb in circuit
> and suddenly all the volts are dropping across the bodger's friends
> further upstream.

Ho yuss. I try to educate the reddit denizens when I CBA, that a
voltmeter isn't the best tool when checking wiring for the reason
you explained.

I also periodically remind them that a great way to find a short
circuit in the wiring is to replace the circuit's fuse with a
moderately large bulb, an H4 or a 1157 stoplight bulb brake filament.
The bulb protects the circuit from drawing too much and gives immediate
feedback by flickering or extinguishing when the offending short is
disturbed. Also to 'divide and conquer' by consulting branches of
the schematic is helpful advice.

> Replaced all four of the Scotchlocks with proper solderered[1] joints
> and heatshrink. Add a large cable tie for 'cable strengthening' and
> then cover with electrical tape again. All working.

I hate Scotchlok connectors with a passion. Horrible bodgy things
that by all rights should be outlawed.

I'm [mis?]remembering that soldered connections on vehicle wiring[1]
are discouraged- it tends to concentrate stress, IIRC. Better to use
a quality crimp connection covered with glue filled heat shrink.

However, I did use solder when repairing the wiring loom on my FJR,
there was an infamous design error where multiple return circuits
were funneled into one 'Ground Spider' connector, causing them to
overheat. This happened in multiple places in the loom.

https://www.fjrowners.com/threads/my-ground-spider-experience.148941/

A schoolboy error, not considering the return path when designing the
circuit. I snipped off the spider connectors and spliced the return
circuits together, soldered them and covered with heatshrink. I also
added a couple of discrete return wires where the original return
path was obviously undersized due to poor circuit analysis on the
part of a presumably junior EE..

"The schematic is _not_ the circuit"

[1] Airplanes come to mind.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

chrisnd @ukrm <chrisnd@privacy.net> wrote:
> On 23/08/2023 16:21, siwilson wrote:
>> On 23/08/2023 16:15, Stephen Packer wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> [1] Modern solder really is shit.  When I started messing about with car
>>> and bike electrics the solder actually worked.  You could take a
>>> (slightly)
>>> tarnished and oxidised wire and the acid flux core/lead solder would
>>> melt,
>>> clean the tarnishing and then wet the wire.  These days it's so much
>>> harder.
>>> I know my soldering skills aren't what they were but I suspect the modern
>>> flux and solder doesn't help.  Oh for the days of cancerous industrial
>>> compounds and workers dying in their early sixties...
>>
>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/225464766264 I believe is the same as old
>> stuff. I've still got loads left.
>>
> "Me too"
> I figure that my little stockpile will last me out...

Two jobs ago the build shop was disposing of all the non-ROHS compliant
solder. I made off with about 6 lb of the stuff. I'm certain it will
outlast me.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

Mark Olson <olsonm@tiny.invalid> wrote in
news:uc60et$3499c$1@dont-email.me:

> Stephen Packer <stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Of course, I forgot the obvious thing when measuring voltage with the
>> meter, the meter's got a very high resistance, the bulb is (almost) a
>> short. The meter draws minimal current so there isn't much in the
>> way of voltage drop across the poor connection. Put a bulb in
>> circuit and suddenly all the volts are dropping across the bodger's
>> friends further upstream.
>
> Ho yuss. I try to educate the reddit denizens when I CBA, that a
> voltmeter isn't the best tool when checking wiring for the reason
> you explained.
>
> I also periodically remind them that a great way to find a short
> circuit in the wiring is to replace the circuit's fuse with a
> moderately large bulb, an H4 or a 1157 stoplight bulb brake filament.
> The bulb protects the circuit from drawing too much and gives
> immediate feedback by flickering or extinguishing when the offending
> short is disturbed. Also to 'divide and conquer' by consulting
> branches of the schematic is helpful advice.
>

I used to be the Toneohm guru amongst the techs at Xerox. Loved tracing
shorts on complex circuit boards. Tiny fragments of solder paste on surface
mount components or poorly etched tracks on the cheap & nasty bare boards
they sourced.

Jumpers for goalposts

On 23/08/2023 22:29, Pipl wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 08:15:14 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
> <stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> [1] Modern solder really is shit.
>
> Lead free solder. If you're quick and get it to flow first time then
> you'll get a reasonable joint. There are flux pens etc. that make a
> dry joint shiny with just a touch of the iron to reflow it.

+1 for flux pens

Top tip: if you store them tip up for months they dry out and take ages
to get restarted (well it seems like ages when the iron is hot so to speak).

If you store them tip down for months, the cap fills with flux and it
all splashes out when you pull the cap off. :-(

--
Bruce Horrocks
FJR1300AS

On 23/08/2023 16:15, Stephen Packer wrote:

>
> [1] Modern solder really is shit. When I started messing about with car
> and bike electrics the solder actually worked. You could take a (slightly)
> tarnished and oxidised wire and the acid flux core/lead solder would melt,
> clean the tarnishing and then wet the wire. These days it's so much harder.
> I know my soldering skills aren't what they were but I suspect the modern
> flux and solder doesn't help. Oh for the days of cancerous industrial
> compounds and workers dying in their early sixties...

Lead free is ok if you set the iron about 10 to 15 degrees hotter.

--
ex SprintRS

/prune/
> [1] Modern solder really is shit. When I started messing about with car
> and bike electrics the solder actually worked. You could take a (slightly)
> tarnished and oxidised wire and the acid flux core/lead solder would melt,
> clean the tarnishing and then wet the wire. These days it's so much harder.
> I know my soldering skills aren't what they were but I suspect the modern
> flux and solder doesn't help. Oh for the days of cancerous industrial
> compounds and workers dying in their early sixties...

I've given up with modern lead-free sodder. I use a fine copper
welding/brazing rod from Silbraloy - no flux/preparation needed: just
put the two ends of the wires together, heat them with a fine flame - I
use a 'pencil' propane flame or a ·5 jet with oxy-acetylene - but low
brazing or silver-soldering temperatures suffice.

Apply rod and it joins in a flash. Same for copper pipes, brass and
presumably, other non-ferrous metals.

I visited a plumber friend years ago. He was away on a job in That
London. His wife was bemoaning the <cobbler's boots syndrome> unfinished
job he'd left in the kitchen - holes in the walls, plaster chiselled out
etc.

I had my toolkit with me so offered to finish it.

It involved a lot of squiggly pipework and he'd taken his bender (oo-er)
with him, but I had a hacksaw and access to his scrap...

Painted pipes cleaned, suitable bends cut from scrap, pipes joined in
situ and polished-up so it *appeared* to be all new pipe - but no
soldered joints, just wiggly copper pipe <Terwur> all the way down.
</Terwur>

Lots of puzzlement when he got home. "Owjer do *that*"?

"Ah, Silbraloy..."

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 23/08/2023 23:39, Bruce Horrocks wrote:
> On 23/08/2023 22:29, Pipl wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 08:15:14 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
>> <stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> [1] Modern solder really is shit.
>>
>> Lead free solder. If you're quick and get it to flow first time then
>> you'll get a reasonable joint. There are flux pens etc. that make a
>> dry joint shiny with just a touch of the iron to reflow it.
>
> +1 for flux pens
>
> Top tip: if you store them tip up for months they dry out and take ages
> to get restarted (well it seems like ages when the iron is hot so to
> speak).
>
> If you store them tip down for months, the cap fills with flux and it
> all splashes out when you pull the cap off. :-(
>
Another Top Tip:

Silbraloy needs no flux.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 23/08/2023 16:15, Stephen Packer wrote:

> Replaced all four of the Scotchlocks with proper solderered[1] joints
> and heatshrink. Add a large cable tie for 'cable strengthening' and
> then cover with electrical tape again. All working.

I diagnosed faulty towbar electrics for someone last year (fitted by a
national chain).
Appalled to discover scotchlocks behind the rear light clusters.
Hopeless when anywhere exposed to weather.

On Thursday, 24 August 2023 at 07:42:04 UTC+1, RustyHinge wrote:
> On 23/08/2023 23:39, Bruce Horrocks wrote:
> > On 23/08/2023 22:29, Pipl wrote:
> >> On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 08:15:14 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
> >> <stephen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> [1] Modern solder really is shit.
> >>
> >> Lead free solder. If you're quick and get it to flow first time then
> >> you'll get a reasonable joint. There are flux pens etc. that make a
> >> dry joint shiny with just a touch of the iron to reflow it.
> >
> > +1 for flux pens
> >
> > Top tip: if you store them tip up for months they dry out and take ages
> > to get restarted (well it seems like ages when the iron is hot so to
> > speak).
> >
> > If you store them tip down for months, the cap fills with flux and it
> > all splashes out when you pull the cap off. :-(
> >
> Another Top Tip:
>
> Silbraloy needs no flux.

Using a gas jet for soldering loom type wires together with maybe 8-10mm
of available copper to tin and an overall diameter of maybe 3-4mm. The
PVC coating would melt in a flash.

Copper pipes I'm sure it's great (no real view) but vehicle electrics?

On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 22:26:22 -0000 (UTC), wessie
<willnotwork@tesco.net> wrote:

>Mark Olson <olsonm@tiny.invalid> wrote in
>news:uc60et$3499c$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> Stephen Packer <stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Of course, I forgot the obvious thing when measuring voltage with the
>>> meter, the meter's got a very high resistance, the bulb is (almost) a
>>> short. The meter draws minimal current so there isn't much in the
>>> way of voltage drop across the poor connection. Put a bulb in
>>> circuit and suddenly all the volts are dropping across the bodger's
>>> friends further upstream.
>>
>> Ho yuss. I try to educate the reddit denizens when I CBA, that a
>> voltmeter isn't the best tool when checking wiring for the reason
>> you explained.
>>
>> I also periodically remind them that a great way to find a short
>> circuit in the wiring is to replace the circuit's fuse with a
>> moderately large bulb, an H4 or a 1157 stoplight bulb brake filament.
>> The bulb protects the circuit from drawing too much and gives
>> immediate feedback by flickering or extinguishing when the offending
>> short is disturbed. Also to 'divide and conquer' by consulting
>> branches of the schematic is helpful advice.
>>
>
>I used to be the Toneohm guru amongst the techs at Xerox

Whaatever happened to toneohms?

>mount components or poorly etched tracks on the cheap & nasty bare boards
>they sourced.

We used to get whiskers between tracks when they were made, too. No
solder resist on those boards. The quick fix for an unknown short was
"the magic brush wipe". A good scrub with a flux cleaning brush would
often cure that sort of thing.

>Jumpers for goalposts

And for making connections?

--

-Pip

On 24/08/2023 19:40, Stephen Packer wrote:
> On Thursday, 24 August 2023 at 07:42:04 UTC+1, RustyHinge wrote:
>> On 23/08/2023 23:39, Bruce Horrocks wrote:
>>> On 23/08/2023 22:29, Pipl wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 08:15:14 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
>>>> <stephen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> [1] Modern solder really is shit.
>>>>
>>>> Lead free solder. If you're quick and get it to flow first time then
>>>> you'll get a reasonable joint. There are flux pens etc. that make a
>>>> dry joint shiny with just a touch of the iron to reflow it.
>>>
>>> +1 for flux pens
>>>
>>> Top tip: if you store them tip up for months they dry out and take ages
>>> to get restarted (well it seems like ages when the iron is hot so to
>>> speak).
>>>
>>> If you store them tip down for months, the cap fills with flux and it
>>> all splashes out when you pull the cap off. :-(
>>>
>> Another Top Tip:
>>
>> Silbraloy needs no flux.
>
> Using a gas jet for soldering loom type wires together with maybe 8-10mm
> of available copper to tin and an overall diameter of maybe 3-4mm. The
> PVC coating would melt in a flash.
>
> Copper pipes I'm sure it's great (no real view) but vehicle electrics?
>
You don't have to tin it. It joins if covered in verdigris. A really hot
iron would do the job - just one hot enough to silver-solder and big
enough to provide the heat for the sticks. I don't know (haven't looked)
if very fine rods/wire can be got.

The one time I joined two very small components I used a woodwork plane
on a rod to get a slight enough piece. Usually I can (could: not done it
recently) manage with the ·5 oxy-acetylene jet and supply turned down to
a tiny flame.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

Stephen Packer wrote:
> RustyHinge wrote:
> > Silbraloy needs no flux.
>
> Copper pipes I'm sure it's great (no real view) but vehicle electrics?

Remember who you're replying to. It's like he's channelling the spirit of crn.

On 25/08/2023 09:47, ogden wrote:
> Stephen Packer wrote:
>> RustyHinge wrote:
>>> Silbraloy needs no flux.
>>
>> Copper pipes I'm sure it's great (no real view) but vehicle electrics?
>
> Remember who you're replying to. It's like he's channelling the spirit of crn.
>
the spirit of R Hinge is here beside me in bottles - with real corks.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On Friday, 25 August 2023 at 09:47:53 UTC+1, ogden wrote:
> Stephen Packer wrote:
> > RustyHinge wrote:
> > > Silbraloy needs no flux.
> >
> > Copper pipes I'm sure it's great (no real view) but vehicle electrics?
> Remember who you're replying to. It's like he's channelling the spirit of crn.

I know, I know...

On Friday, 25 August 2023 at 10:58:31 UTC+1, RustyHinge wrote:
> On 25/08/2023 09:47, ogden wrote:
> > Stephen Packer wrote:
> >> RustyHinge wrote:
> >>> Silbraloy needs no flux.
> >>
> >> Copper pipes I'm sure it's great (no real view) but vehicle electrics?
> >
> > Remember who you're replying to. It's like he's channelling the spirit of crn.
> >
> the spirit of R Hinge is here beside me in bottles - with real corks.

Hipster style I see.

Mark Olson wrote:

> I'm [mis?]remembering that soldered connections on vehicle wiring[1]
> are discouraged- it tends to concentrate stress, IIRC.

I was told this and have stuck by it.

This is, of course, nothing to do with the fact that my soldering is
atrocious.

--
Simon

On Wed, 23 Aug 2023 22:15:57 -0000 (UTC), Mark Olson
<olsonm@tiny.invalid> wrote:

>I'm [mis?]remembering that soldered connections on vehicle wiring[1]
>are discouraged- it tends to concentrate stress, IIRC. Better to use
>a quality crimp connection covered with glue filled heat shrink.

It makes sense. And solder under a screw terminal is an absolute
no-no.

--

-Pip