I want "clean" water for use in photography chemistry.

I've had a problem with tap water contaminents [1] marking the film -
small white specks. I use a micro filter on the wash.

To rule out water (I live in Sussex, a fairly hard water area) I'll
make up the next lot of chemistry with "clean" water.

For this purpose is deionised and distilled water the same?

I appreciate they are made by different processes but for my needs does
it make a difference.

It's not a huge difference but deionised works out £1 per litre and
distilled £2 per litre.

[1] The finger of suspicion is also pointing at powdered chemicals not
being mixed at a high enough temprature but having said that this is
not the first time I've had white specks on negatives.

--
Simon

"sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in news:kku530F7e9gU1
@mid.individual.net:

>
> I want "clean" water for use in photography chemistry.
>
> I've had a problem with tap water contaminents [1] marking the film -
> small white specks. I use a micro filter on the wash.
>
> To rule out water (I live in Sussex, a fairly hard water area) I'll
> make up the next lot of chemistry with "clean" water.
>
> For this purpose is deionised and distilled water the same?
>
> I appreciate they are made by different processes but for my needs does
> it make a difference.
>
> It's not a huge difference but deionised works out �1 per litre and
> distilled �2 per litre.
>
>
> [1] The finger of suspicion is also pointing at powdered chemicals not
> being mixed at a high enough temprature but having said that this is
> not the first time I've had white specks on negatives.
>

deionised water is just that, most ions removed but there could be other
stuff dissolved that does not form ions such as an organic compound. Sugar
is an example.

your chemistry is probably beng affected by minerals in the tap water such
as magnesium or calcium carbonates or sulphates.

distilled water is heated and this adds to the cost. The water boils off
and is condensed under a controlled temperature so that the organic
compounds either evaporate off or remain in the sludge if larger molecules.

try the deionised as it will probably work. This is what we used in the
electronics industry in the days of lead based flow soldering and water
washes.

On 26/08/2023 12:13, sweller wrote:
>
> I want "clean" water for use in photography chemistry.
>
> I've had a problem with tap water contaminents [1] marking the film -
> small white specks. I use a micro filter on the wash.
>
> To rule out water (I live in Sussex, a fairly hard water area) I'll
> make up the next lot of chemistry with "clean" water.
>
> For this purpose is deionised and distilled water the same?
>
> I appreciate they are made by different processes but for my needs does
> it make a difference.
>
> It's not a huge difference but deionised works out £1 per litre and
> distilled £2 per litre.
>

I'd be tempted to try something like a Brita water filter to see if that
made any difference. Do you add any wetting agent after the rinse and/or
squeegee the film?

--
/Simon

El Sat, 26 Aug 2023 11:13:36 +0000, sweller escribió:

> I want "clean" water for use in photography chemistry.
>
> I've had a problem with tap water contaminents [1] marking the film -
> small white specks. I use a micro filter on the wash.
>
> To rule out water (I live in Sussex, a fairly hard water area) I'll make
> up the next lot of chemistry with "clean" water.
>
> For this purpose is deionised and distilled water the same?
>
> I appreciate they are made by different processes but for my needs does
> it make a difference.

If you weren't so far away, I'd lend you my reverse osmosis machine. The
town hall has installed one for the whole town, so mine is redundant.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es

On 26 Aug 2023 11:13:36 GMT, "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
wrote:

>
>I want "clean" water for use in photography chemistry.

I have a near-endless, albeit slow, source of distilled water from the
dehumidifier I leave running in one of the apartments that can suffer
from condensation due to it being built into the hillside. Mostly they
just fill up a tank, but this one also has a pipe outlet that I've run
into the adjecent shower drain.

Doesn't halp you much over here, I realise, but if you know someone
who uses one then it might be worth asking them.
--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On 26/08/2023 13:13, sweller wrote:
>
>I want "clean" water for use in photography chemistry.
>
>I've had a problem with tap water contaminents [1] marking the film -
>small white specks. I use a micro filter on the wash.
>
>To rule out water (I live in Sussex, a fairly hard water area) I'll
>make up the next lot of chemistry with "clean" water.
>
>For this purpose is deionised and distilled water the same?
>
>I appreciate they are made by different processes but for my needs does
>it make a difference.
>
>It's not a huge difference but deionised works out £1 per litre and
>distilled £2 per litre.
>
>
>[1] The finger of suspicion is also pointing at powdered chemicals not
>being mixed at a high enough temprature but having said that this is
>not the first time I've had white specks on negatives.

Next time you defrost the fridge/freezer.....
--
Geoff
NTV 650

On 26 Aug 2023 11:13:36 GMT, "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
wrote:

>It's not a huge difference but deionised works out £1 per litre and
>distilled £2 per litre.
>
https://www.spotlesswater.co.uk/locations/ is apparently much cheaper
than that, if you have one near you. No idea how much you have to take
to get it for the 3.5p/l they advertise, though.

David

On 26/08/2023 14:20, siwilson wrote:
> On 26/08/2023 12:13, sweller wrote:
>>
>> I want "clean" water for use in photography chemistry.
>>
>> I've had a problem with tap water contaminents [1] marking the film -
>> small white specks.   I use a micro filter on the wash.
>>
>> To rule out water (I live in Sussex, a fairly hard water area) I'll
>> make up the next lot of chemistry with "clean" water.
>>
>> For this purpose is deionised and distilled water the same?
>>
>> I appreciate they are made by different processes but for my needs does
>> it make a difference.
>>
>> It's not a huge difference but deionised works out £1 per litre and
>> distilled £2 per litre.
>>
>
> I'd be tempted to try something like a Brita water filter to see if that
> made any difference. Do you add any wetting agent after the rinse and/or
> squeegee the film?
>
Filters like Brita only take out the insoluble particles.
I'd look for somebody who uses a dehumidifier, cadge the waste water
and by all means, filter that - should make for pretty pure water.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 26/08/2023 17:00, RustyHinge wrote:

> Filters like Brita only take out the insoluble particles.

I don't think that's correct.

--
/Simon

siwilson <siwilson@nodamnspamn.hotmail.com> wrote in news:kkun4nFa7vhU1
@mid.individual.net:

> On 26/08/2023 17:00, RustyHinge wrote:
>
>> Filters like Brita only take out the insoluble particles.
>
> I don't think that's correct.
>

indeed, one of their big sales claims is that they *reduce* certain ions
yet the do not filter out miniscule insoluble things like bacteria and
viruses.

On 26/08/2023 17:38, wessie wrote:
> siwilson <siwilson@nodamnspamn.hotmail.com> wrote in news:kkun4nFa7vhU1
> @mid.individual.net:
>
>> On 26/08/2023 17:00, RustyHinge wrote:
>>
>>> Filters like Brita only take out the insoluble particles.
>>
>> I don't think that's correct.
>>
>
> indeed, one of their big sales claims is that they *reduce* certain ions
> yet the do not filter out miniscule insoluble things like bacteria and
> viruses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_filtering

--
/Simon

El Sat, 26 Aug 2023 16:07:30 +0200, Ace escribió:

> On 26 Aug 2023 11:13:36 GMT, "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>
>>I want "clean" water for use in photography chemistry.
>
>
> I have a near-endless, albeit slow, source of distilled water from the
> dehumidifier I leave running in one of the apartments that can suffer
> from condensation due to it being built into the hillside.

If the dehumidifier doesn't use food grade materials, dunno. What comes
out of mine in my garage is pretty disgusting.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es

Ace wrote:

> > I want "clean" water for use in photography chemistry.
>
>
> I have a near-endless, albeit slow, source of distilled water from the
> dehumidifier I leave running in one of the apartments that can suffer
> from condensation due to it being built into the hillside. Mostly they
> just fill up a tank, but this one also has a pipe outlet that I've run
> into the adjecent shower drain.
>
> Doesn't halp you much over here, I realise, but if you know someone
> who uses one then it might be worth asking them.

I have three running pretty much constantly (two in the large garage
and one in a shed) - however I've been told the water they produce
isn't clean as it gets a lot of dust in it from the dehumidifier itself
(the air passing over the coils is filtered but only crudely) and
they're in my garage and shed so not exactly a clean environment.

Unrelated to the original problem but I've also been told that
dehumidifiers can harbour bacteria which makes the water not that great
for drinking.

Not sure how true that is but I read it on the internet...

I think the dehumidifier water I collect is alright for vehicle cooling
systems and screen wash but not much good for much else.

--
Simon

siwilson wrote:

> I'd be tempted to try something like a Brita water filter to see if
> that made any difference.

I have one for the kettle - I could use that but the cartridge always
seems to have expired...

> Do you add any wetting agent after the
> rinse and/or squeegee the film?

Yes and yes - but these aren't drying marks.

--
Simon

geoffC wrote:

> Next time you defrost the fridge/freezer.....

Does anyone do that anymore? My one does it itself.

--
Simon

David wrote:

> https://www.spotlesswater.co.uk/locations/ is apparently much cheaper
> than that, if you have one near you. No idea how much you have to take
> to get it for the 3.5p/l they advertise, though.

About 20 miles away - I wonder if they'll sell me 10 litres at a time!

--
Simon

"sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in news:kkv2dlFc1auU1
@mid.individual.net:

> Ace wrote:
>
>> > I want "clean" water for use in photography chemistry.
>>
>>
>> I have a near-endless, albeit slow, source of distilled water from the
>> dehumidifier I leave running in one of the apartments that can suffer
>> from condensation due to it being built into the hillside. Mostly they
>> just fill up a tank, but this one also has a pipe outlet that I've run
>> into the adjecent shower drain.
>>
>> Doesn't halp you much over here, I realise, but if you know someone
>> who uses one then it might be worth asking them.
>
> I have three running pretty much constantly (two in the large garage
> and one in a shed) - however I've been told the water they produce
> isn't clean as it gets a lot of dust in it from the dehumidifier itself
> (the air passing over the coils is filtered but only crudely) and
> they're in my garage and shed so not exactly a clean environment.
>
> Unrelated to the original problem but I've also been told that
> dehumidifiers can harbour bacteria which makes the water not that great
> for drinking.
>
> Not sure how true that is but I read it on the internet...
>
> I think the dehumidifier water I collect is alright for vehicle cooling
> systems and screen wash but not much good for much else.
>

a car's aircon is a dehumidifier and the can stink a bit if not treated
periodically. Just like any damp environment, bacteria and mould can build
up. I would not trust any water coming out of such a device unless it was
going to be heated like your vehicles.

"sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in news:kkv2r5Fc38nU1
@mid.individual.net:

> David wrote:
>
>> https://www.spotlesswater.co.uk/locations/ is apparently much cheaper
>> than that, if you have one near you. No idea how much you have to take
>> to get it for the 3.5p/l they advertise, though.
>
> About 20 miles away - I wonder if they'll sell me 10 litres at a time!
>

do you employ a window cleaner? Many are now using this water, especially
where they are using pumped systems rather than ladders, as it supposeldy
does not leave streaks, Maybe they will give you a few litres to try?

On 26/08/2023 21:37, sweller wrote:
>geoffC wrote:
>
>> Next time you defrost the fridge/freezer.....
>
>Does anyone do that anymore? My one does it itself.

True. We do ours no more than once a year which probably yields less than a
litre. So not exactly abundant.
On another note, I remember once loading 30 000L of 'de-mineralised' water
in a tanker at a power station.
--
Geoff
NTV 650

On 26 Aug 2023 17:28:35 GMT, Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com>
wrote:

>El Sat, 26 Aug 2023 16:07:30 +0200, Ace escribió:
>
>> On 26 Aug 2023 11:13:36 GMT, "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I want "clean" water for use in photography chemistry.
>>
>>
>> I have a near-endless, albeit slow, source of distilled water from the
>> dehumidifier I leave running in one of the apartments that can suffer
>> from condensation due to it being built into the hillside.
>
>If the dehumidifier doesn't use food grade materials, dunno. What comes
>out of mine in my garage is pretty disgusting.

Dunno, looked perfectly clean to me when I ran it to the tank, and the
previous one, now relocated to the laundry room, also produced
clean-looking water. I wouldn't suggest drinking it though.

I guess it could be dusty so would need at least a basic filtering for
the intended use here.
--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

El Sat, 26 Aug 2023 20:34:03 +0000, wessie escribió:

> a car's aircon is a dehumidifier and the can stink a bit if not treated
> periodically. Just like any damp environment, bacteria and mould can
> build up. I would not trust any water coming out of such a device unless
> it was going to be heated like your vehicles.

I recently stripped down all our aircon units to remove the enormous
amout of mo(u)ld. They were really smelly.

Our aircon has been on all day every day for a couple of months, but this
morning the temp has dropped by 10ºC. Las night it rained (filthy - and
we'd just cleaned the car).

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es

On 26/08/2023 12:13, sweller wrote:
> For this purpose is deionised and distilled water the same?

Surely a good comrade would only consider using unionised?

--
Bruce Horrocks
FJR1300AS

On 26 Aug 2023 19:37:35 GMT, "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
wrote:

>geoffC wrote:
>
>> Next time you defrost the fridge/freezer.....
>
>Does anyone do that anymore? My one does it itself.

We do, though that is partly due to the door not always being closed
properly.

--

-Pip

On Sun, 27 Aug 2023 14:40:56 +0100, Bruce Horrocks
<07.013@scorecrow.com> wrote:

>On 26/08/2023 12:13, sweller wrote:
>> For this purpose is deionised and distilled water the same?
>
>Surely a good comrade would only consider using unionised?

Haha, very good!

--

-Pip

On 8/26/2023 9:21 AM, siwilson wrote:
> On 26/08/2023 17:00, RustyHinge wrote:
>
>> Filters like Brita only take out the insoluble particles.
>
> I don't think that's correct.
>
Brita is currently being sued in the US (of course,) for not filtering
what it claims. Not sure any of the chemicals are relevant to this
discussion, but mebbe.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-08-19/brita-water-filter-company-accused-of-false-advertising
"The proposed class-action lawsuit, which was filed Wednesday in Los
Angeles County Superior Court, claims that deceptive advertising has led
customers to falsely believe that Brita products filter such
contaminants as arsenic, nitrate, hexavalent chromium and certain PFAS,
or “forever chemicals,” from tap water."
and "Depending on the type of filter, Brita products are certified to
reduce or remove contaminants such as chlorine, lead, mercury, asbestos,
some particulates, zinc, copper and select pesticides, herbicides and
pharmaceuticals, according to its website."

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS & ST1100 (in memoriam)