Well, it would be if I was bothered enough to run a usenet client.
Oh, and use a .sig.

Anyway... It's been a while since I bought a bike (two years? maybe
a record?) so I've remedied that.

I've just bought a Zero FXS. Well, agreed to buy it and paid a deposit.

Collecting it 'sometime' next week.

I've had enough of burning 20 quids worth of petrol a week just running
into and around town without going anywhere and since I've a surplus of
electricity from the solar system it seemed the right fuel.

Very strange bike to ride. Controls as-per normal bike except no clutch
or gears. Switch it on, pull the sidestand up and it just sits there doing
nothing, twist the throttle a little and it starts to move forward.
Once rolling, twist the throttle open and it accelerates fast, since it was
a test ride on unfamiliar roads I didn't cane it but it did 0-50 very swiftly,
possibly faster than I'm used to (R1200RT). It also feels very light (about
130kg) and being 'super moto' styled *might* encourage bad behaviour.

We'll see... I'm sure there will be more posts about it in due course.
Hopefully not complaints.

On 17/08/2023 15:50, Stephen Packer wrote:
> Zero FXS

<Googles>

Hmm about the same power as a KTm/Husky 390 but lower geared by the
sound of it.
Like the Kg , the seat height not so much.
--
Moto Morini 2C/375
Gilera 175 Sport, Husqvarna 401 Svartpilen
Honda CB250RS (Not Waynetta!)
"Do not adjust your mind, there is a fault in the reality"

On 17/08/2023 15:50, Stephen Packer wrote:
> Well, it would be if I was bothered enough to run a usenet client.
> Oh, and use a .sig.
>
> Anyway... It's been a while since I bought a bike (two years? maybe
> a record?) so I've remedied that.
>
> I've just bought a Zero FXS. Well, agreed to buy it and paid a deposit.
>
>
Brand new, or 2nd hand?

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

YTC#1 <bdp@ytc1-spambin.co.uk> wrote in news:ubna2v$6f36$1@dont-email.me:

>
>
> On 17/08/2023 15:50, Stephen Packer wrote:
>> Well, it would be if I was bothered enough to run a usenet client.
>> Oh, and use a .sig.
>>
>> Anyway... It's been a while since I bought a bike (two years? maybe
>> a record?) so I've remedied that.
>>
>> I've just bought a Zero FXS. Well, agreed to buy it and paid a deposit.
>>
>>
> Brand new, or 2nd hand?
>
>

It's SP. You have to ask?

On Friday, 18 August 2023 at 11:18:17 UTC+1, wessie wrote:

> > Brand new, or 2nd hand?
> >
> >
> It's SP. You have to ask?

Busted. 2nd hand, naturally. 2018 model, about 4,500 miles.

On 18/08/2023 11:20, Stephen Packer wrote:
> On Friday, 18 August 2023 at 11:18:17 UTC+1, wessie wrote:
>
>>> Brand new, or 2nd hand?
>>>
>>>
>> It's SP. You have to ask?
>
> Busted. 2nd hand, naturally. 2018 model, about 4,500 miles.

Hmm, ok. I'll be interested to know how the battery is doing etc. I've
seen the price is quite reasonable on the used ones.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On Thu, 17 Aug 2023 07:50:00 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
<stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:

>Well, it would be if I was bothered enough to run a usenet client.
>Oh, and use a .sig.
>
>Anyway... It's been a while since I bought a bike (two years? maybe
>a record?) so I've remedied that.
>
>I've just bought a Zero FXS. Well, agreed to buy it and paid a deposit.
>
>Collecting it 'sometime' next week.
>
>I've had enough of burning 20 quids worth of petrol a week just running
>into and around town without going anywhere and since I've a surplus of
>electricity from the solar system it seemed the right fuel.
>
>Very strange bike to ride. Controls as-per normal bike except no clutch
>or gears. Switch it on, pull the sidestand up and it just sits there doing
>nothing, twist the throttle a little and it starts to move forward.

Twist 'n' go, like the Energica. I guess there's no need for enything
else.

>Once rolling, twist the throttle open and it accelerates fast, since it was
>a test ride on unfamiliar roads I didn't cane it but it did 0-50 very swiftly,
>possibly faster than I'm used to (R1200RT). It also feels very light (about
>130kg) and being 'super moto' styled *might* encourage bad behaviour.

130Kg? <looks at 285Kg Energica> Miffed.

>We'll see... I'm sure there will be more posts about it in due course.

I'd be intyerested to read them.

>Hopefully not complaints.

Hopefully so. Zero are long established, as electric bike
manufacturers go, so shouldn't be any major problems.

I'm actually tempted to replace the Energica with an enduro at some
point, but I'll wait until it gest some more miles on. There are some
serious-looking pieces of kit out there, but it would either have to
have a 50 mile range or a replaceable battery so that I could strap a
return battery onto the pillion. There are chargers at work but
they're not cheap.

--

-Pip

On Saturday, 19 August 2023 at 09:48:25 UTC+1, Pipl wrote:
> Hopefully so. Zero are long established, as electric bike
> manufacturers go, so shouldn't be any major problems.
>
> I'm actually tempted to replace the Energica with an enduro at some
> point, but I'll wait until it gest some more miles on. There are some
> serious-looking pieces of kit out there, but it would either have to
> have a 50 mile range or a replaceable battery so that I could strap a
> return battery onto the pillion. There are chargers at work but
> they're not cheap.

There does seem to be an avalanche of electric bikes arriving,
mostly cheap Chinese stuff (Super Soco etc.) and a lot of it
seemingly does 'about' 60mph and might manage 50-60 miles
(at 20/30 mph). I thought about one of the cheap Chinese ones
but:
a) They're physically small.
b) I don't think I could take one seriously
c) I wouldn't be comfortable on a fast A road riding something
that size (and with only 60mph to play with).
d) I don't *really* trust them (although the Super Soco has been
around for a couple of years or more).
e) Buy cheap and regret...

So I went for the Zero since it's got 'about' ten years of experience
behind it and also 'decent' dealer backup (if that's not an oxymoron).

Naturally I went for their cheapest model with only a 7.2kWh battery
(although that's more than my house battery!) But it's only for doing
10-30 mile round-trip journeys so I would guess that's adequate.

The charger is a bit shit; it won't use public chargers and the onboard
charger is around 700W, taking almost ten hours to deliver a full
charge (you just plug a kettle lead into the bike). There is a HFM[1]
1kW ish accessory charger that just about halves the charging time.

Rather keen to avoid charging it from the mains during peak
rates to be honest; though more a point of principle than anything
else. I think that there's enough 'free' electricity in the summer
months (although it'll have to compete with the car for that) and for
the rest of the year the Octopus 'Go' tariff gives me 4 hours offpeak
charging per day; hopefully enough to keep me with a useful range.

[1] Depends on where you buy it from. More than £700. There
are other alternatives but I think I'd rather not fuck-about with
homebrew chargers etc. I suppose I could also stop being
'so fucking tight' and just accept charging at peak rate...

Stephen Packer <stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote in news:abbe4c79-b2e3-465b-
a78f-0397930cedbfn@googlegroups.com:

> On Saturday, 19 August 2023 at 09:48:25 UTC+1, Pipl wrote:

> I suppose I could also stop being
> 'so fucking tight' and just accept charging at peak rate...

old dogs, new tricks come to mind

On Sat, 19 Aug 2023 10:07:29 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
<stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:

>There does seem to be an avalanche of electric bikes arriving,
>mostly cheap Chinese stuff (Super Soco etc.) and a lot of it
>seemingly does 'about' 60mph and might manage 50-60 miles
>(at 20/30 mph). I thought about one of the cheap Chinese ones
>but:
>a) They're physically small.

Yes, the Sur-ton I had a go on was a hoot offroad but about 90% scale
of a full enduro bike. If it had been bigger I might have bought one
then and there and traded in the Energica.

>b) I don't think I could take one seriously
>c) I wouldn't be comfortable on a fast A road riding something
>that size (and with only 60mph to play with).

I have a back roads route to work that would avoid dual carriageways,
so that would be an option for me.

>d) I don't *really* trust them (although the Super Soco has been
>around for a couple of years or more).
>e) Buy cheap and regret...

I'd be especially concerned about substandard materials being used in
the cycle parts.

>So I went for the Zero since it's got 'about' ten years of experience
>behind it and also 'decent' dealer backup (if that's not an oxymoron).
>
>Naturally I went for their cheapest model with only a 7.2kWh battery
>(although that's more than my house battery!) But it's only for doing
>10-30 mile round-trip journeys so I would guess that's adequate.
>
>The charger is a bit shit; it won't use public chargers and the onboard
>charger is around 700W, taking almost ten hours to deliver a full
>charge (you just plug a kettle lead into the bike). There is a HFM[1]
>1kW ish accessory charger that just about halves the charging time.

Seems to be a Zero thing: the fast charger is always extra.

>[1] Depends on where you buy it from. More than £700. There
>are other alternatives but I think I'd rather not fuck-about with
>homebrew chargers etc. I suppose I could also stop being
>'so fucking tight' and just accept charging at peak rate...

Sounds like it has a mode 1 ('granny') AC charger. Mode 2 is what I
use and might be the faster one on your bike. It's also AC mains, good
for 10A off a 13A socket but with a very basic analogue communications
protocol. Hard to fuck up, to be fair.

--

-Pip

On Saturday, 19 August 2023 at 20:17:22 UTC+1, Pipl wrote:
<snip>

> Sounds like it has a mode 1 ('granny') AC charger. Mode 2 is what I
> use and might be the faster one on your bike. It's also AC mains, good
> for 10A off a 13A socket but with a very basic analogue communications
> protocol. Hard to fuck up, to be fair.

Not sure, it's got a simple kettle lead that fires up the on-board 700W charger
which I suspect supplies DC to the battery/BMS.

I've not really read in a lot of detail but the 'fast' chargers on this model seem to
deliver DC to a separate port on the battery (around 96V or so). I presume all the real smarts
are in the BMS. People have put things together that can throw around 4kW at the
battery but frankly having had a job which involved directing people to drive nails
into batteries, remove the BMS and over-charge etc. I'm aware how much damage
a phone battery can do (looked through quite a few home insurance claims...) and
I'm not sure I'd want a 7kW battery pack to go off once fully charged...

Of course, once I get frustrated by the bike charging so slowly I can see I'll either
say 'fuck it' and buy a 1kW charger or look at the cost of building my own...

I think they've tried to save weight by having smaller chargers on the smaller bikes.
Oh, and money, but I suspect they'd be a lot more attractive if you could simply
rock up at a public charging point and plug it in as I do with the car (on the very
rare occasion I park somewhere with free charging...) and then be fully charged
an hour later (car charges at 7kW or so). The models further up the range all
have type 2 charging or options that charge in about 2 hours so again, it's just
me coping with the consequences of my parsimonious nature...

Stephen Packer <stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, 19 August 2023 at 20:17:22 UTC+1, Pipl wrote:
> <snip>
>
>> Sounds like it has a mode 1 ('granny') AC charger. Mode 2 is what I
>> use and might be the faster one on your bike. It's also AC mains, good
>> for 10A off a 13A socket but with a very basic analogue communications
>> protocol. Hard to fuck up, to be fair.
>
> Not sure, it's got a simple kettle lead that fires up the on-board 700W charger
> which I suspect supplies DC to the battery/BMS.

[snip]

> Of course, once I get frustrated by the bike charging so slowly I can see I'll either
> say 'fuck it' and buy a 1kW charger or look at the cost of building my own...

So let me get this straight, the on board included charger is 700W,
and the optional 'fast' charger is only 1kW? That doesn't sound like
much of an improvement for the money you need to spend.

Of course I can see the problem with a lightweight bike, you don't want
to be carrying around a heavy charger so you can use public chargers
meant for cars. This seems to be one of those pain points that make
electric motorcycles less practical than they otherwise might be if
there was suitable infrastructure deployed (make the heavy electronics
stationary rather than carrying them on the bike). I can't see that
happening as the electric moto market share is bound to be fairly low compared to
cars.

I'm keeping an eye on the swappable battery schemes for scooters as
they seem to be gaining traction in some places.

https://www.gogoro.com/

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

On Monday, 21 August 2023 at 20:05:21 UTC+1, Mark Olson wrote:
> Stephen Packer <stephen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Saturday, 19 August 2023 at 20:17:22 UTC+1, Pipl wrote:
> > <snip>
> >
> >> Sounds like it has a mode 1 ('granny') AC charger. Mode 2 is what I
> >> use and might be the faster one on your bike. It's also AC mains, good
> >> for 10A off a 13A socket but with a very basic analogue communications
> >> protocol. Hard to fuck up, to be fair.
> >
> > Not sure, it's got a simple kettle lead that fires up the on-board 700W charger
> > which I suspect supplies DC to the battery/BMS.
> [snip]
> > Of course, once I get frustrated by the bike charging so slowly I can see I'll either
> > say 'fuck it' and buy a 1kW charger or look at the cost of building my own...
> So let me get this straight, the on board included charger is 700W,
> and the optional 'fast' charger is only 1kW? That doesn't sound like
> much of an improvement for the money you need to spend.

The 1kW is additional so you go from (something like) 10 hours for a full charge to
something around 4 hours. And, get this, it can accept up to four fast chargers
so you can end up charging at 4.7kW peak so the battery charges in an hour and
a half or so... !

MInd you... you'll need three 'Y' adaptors at some stupid price each (£70?)
plus four 'Quick' chargers at £700...

> Of course I can see the problem with a lightweight bike, you don't want
> to be carrying around a heavy charger so you can use public chargers
> meant for cars. This seems to be one of those pain points that make
> electric motorcycles less practical than they otherwise might be if
> there was suitable infrastructure deployed (make the heavy electronics
> stationary rather than carrying them on the bike). I can't see that
> happening as the electric moto market share is bound to be fairly low compared to
> cars.

The larger models use standard 'Type 2' chargers and charge in about two hours
so they'll have a fairly weighty on board charger but they are heavier bikes.
..

>
> I'm keeping an eye on the swappable battery schemes for scooters as
> they seem to be gaining traction in some places.
>
> https://www.gogoro.com/

I can see the attraction but any decent capacity based on today's
chemistry is going to be pretty damn heavy. I think the 7.2kWh battery
used in the zeros weighs about 40kg. The 5.8kWh battery in my solar
system weighs around 50kg (the installer had a 'bad back' so I had
to carry the fucker to the second story). These things are heavy so
swappable batteries would probably need to be limited to (around)
20kg or so which suggests 3 or 4kWh so maybe 40 mile range at
moderate city speeds?

I think we need a new chemistry with higher energy density... but of
course that means more fireworks when things go wrong and with a new
chemistry that's likely to happen much more often than with a well
understood design/manufacturing process like the lithium based cells.

I could see an argument for hydrogen for bikes, but I don't see an
argument for it for cars (it's inefficient in both transport and if used
with a fuel cell you've gone Electricity-Hydrogen, transport losses,
Hydrogen-Electricity; I've seen figures of around 50% efficiency for
this; not sure if they're accurate).

I guess with a bike until the weight of batteries reduce a hydrogen
combustion engine *might* make sense from a C02 perspective
(i.e. it's better than burning oil) but without cars driving demand
for hydrogen filling stations (they won't, it might be used
for lorries and industrial machinery but unlikely to be for cars) there
won't be anywhere to fill a hydrogen combustion bike up.

Heaven knows where the motorcycle industry goes from 2035 or
so when EU and UK (currently sort of, maybe) plans to stop selling
ICE bikes. I've read stuff about post 2035 bikes having a technology
that stops them running on traditional petrol but only on synthetic
'e-fuel' (CO2/Hydrogen compounds) but this all looks like wish-ware.

Actually the whole e-fuel discussion both cars and bikes looks to me
like a load of bollocks that car engine manufacturers throw around to
give them more time, I suspect it's going to be way too expensive.
Maybe.

Hydrogen's being thrown around as a solution for similar reasons by
the oil industry;
A) They can produce grey hydrogen from natural gas so still have something
to sell.
B) If they make people believe EVs are a 'temporary step' with hydrogen
being 'the future' then it puts people off buying EVs and keeps people
buying cars using those lovely hydrocarbons at the fuel pump...

Still... 2040, say, I'll be around 75 so I"m not really that bothered. I
suspect I'll be riding an electric scooter by then... if I'm still around.
Or if still fit enough to ride a large bike chances are it'll be one of the
BMW RTs I already own... !

On 21/08/2023 20:05, Mark Olson wrote:
> Of course I can see the problem with a lightweight bike, you don't want
> to be carrying around a heavy charger so you can use public chargers
> meant for cars. This seems to be one of those pain points that make
> electric motorcycles less practical than they otherwise might be if
> there was suitable infrastructure deployed (make the heavy electronics
> stationary rather than carrying them on the bike). I can't see that
> happening as the electric moto market share is bound to be fairly low compared to
> cars.

This has always put me off Zero as a company. Their bikes are nice and
good on them for being the first with a credible electric bike, but the
whole charger business is a farce.

Do they not have anyone looking at their manufacturing and supply chain
costs and working out that fitting a mains charger as well as the option
for a fast(er) charger is adding more to their costs than they make
selling the fast charger as an add-on?

I'm willing to bet that a lot of their potential buyers already have an
EV and probably have a charge point fitted. An all inclusive price would
make the bike more attractive to that market.

And if they really must gouge their customers they should follow the
other bike manufacturers and stick to special editions with fancy paint
jobs.

--
Bruce Horrocks
FJR1300AS

On Monday, 21 August 2023 at 21:36:37 UTC+1, Bruce Horrocks wrote:

> This has always put me off Zero as a company. Their bikes are nice and
> good on them for being the first with a credible electric bike, but the
> whole charger business is a farce.
>
> Do they not have anyone looking at their manufacturing and supply chain
> costs and working out that fitting a mains charger as well as the option
> for a fast(er) charger is adding more to their costs than they make
> selling the fast charger as an add-on?
>
> I'm willing to bet that a lot of their potential buyers already have an
> EV and probably have a charge point fitted. An all inclusive price would
> make the bike more attractive to that market.

The bikes with the bigger batteries all (now) have type 2 chargers fitted
so in principle these could use an existing EV charger.

I can understand why the bike I'm buying doesn't have a type 2 charger
integrated onto the bike; space and weight. Some have built 'off bike'
type 2 chargers and fitted them into topboxes... but that's not for me.
(where would I put my helmet?)

On Thursday, 17 August 2023 at 15:50:02 UTC+1, Stephen Packer wrote:
<SNIP>

Well, I collected it. The M5 was utterly shite on the way home; 121 miles took about
4-5 hours...

But, apart from that, I did about 20 miles on the A399 which was pleasantly windy
but I was well behaved because I didn't want to break down that far from home
and then have to drag a trailer along that narrow and bumpy road.

Then put the bike on the trailer (after I'd put it together from the bits in the
back of the Subaru estate) and dragged it home. Fortunately neither the
wheel bearings or the tyres failed, the bike didn't fall off the trailer and the
trailer didn't become disconnected from the car.

Took it out at home for a short ride to the local village to get a takeaway.
It feels very light, and very willing and a lot more easily bullied than the
BMWs I've been used to.

Done about 30 miles or so with a lot of unnecessary acceleration and it
used about 40% of the battery. (94% when I collected it 56% now). Doesn't
seem so bad if that's 'about' 3kWh or so; 9.5p a kWh off peak so I guess
that's a penny a mile. If I use electricity from the panels rather than export it
it's about half of that. vs the BMW R1100 doing (estimate) about 20-30p a
mile or so in fuel with the stop-start traffic.

More importantly it's fun to ride something different.

Stephen Packer <stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, 17 August 2023 at 15:50:02 UTC+1, Stephen Packer wrote:
> <SNIP>

[snip]

> More importantly it's fun to ride something different.

All that needed saying, really.

I'm really tempted to get an electric pushbike as my next 'vehicle',
but I'd also be open to something like this.

--
FJR1300A, GL1000, KLR650A6F, EX250J9A, DR200SE, Vespa Ciao

On 25/08/2023 00:23, Mark Olson wrote:
> Stephen Packer <stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thursday, 17 August 2023 at 15:50:02 UTC+1, Stephen Packer wrote:
>> <SNIP>
>
> [snip]
>
>> More importantly it's fun to ride something different.
>
> All that needed saying, really.
>
> I'm really tempted to get an electric pushbike as my next 'vehicle',
> but I'd also be open to something like this.
>
Anyone invented an electric Zimmer, yet?

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

El Fri, 25 Aug 2023 08:54:35 +0100, RustyHinge escribió:

> On 25/08/2023 00:23, Mark Olson wrote:
>> Stephen Packer <stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thursday, 17 August 2023 at 15:50:02 UTC+1, Stephen Packer wrote:
>>> <SNIP>
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> More importantly it's fun to ride something different.
>>
>> All that needed saying, really.
>>
>> I'm really tempted to get an electric pushbike as my next 'vehicle',
>> but I'd also be open to something like this.
>>
> Anyone invented an electric Zimmer, yet?

The days of gimmers with zimmers are all but gone. Around here, once past
a certain age, everyone gets one of these:

https://www.mobilityscooter.es/scooters-electricos/

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es

Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com> wrote in
news:pan$74f0$3f5450a5$303fa0a$6f343eb4@gmail.com:

> El Fri, 25 Aug 2023 08:54:35 +0100, RustyHinge escribió:
>
>> On 25/08/2023 00:23, Mark Olson wrote:
>>> Stephen Packer <stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, 17 August 2023 at 15:50:02 UTC+1, Stephen Packer
>>>> wrote: <SNIP>
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>> More importantly it's fun to ride something different.
>>>
>>> All that needed saying, really.
>>>
>>> I'm really tempted to get an electric pushbike as my next 'vehicle',
>>> but I'd also be open to something like this.
>>>
>> Anyone invented an electric Zimmer, yet?
>
>
> The days of gimmers with zimmers are all but gone. Around here, once
> past a certain age, everyone gets one of these:
>
> https://www.mobilityscooter.es/scooters-electricos/
>
>

not only age in the UK, once past a kg threshold

On 25/08/2023 15:47, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>
> The days of gimmers with zimmers are all but gone. Around here, once past
> a certain age, everyone gets one of these:
>
> https://www.mobilityscooter.es/scooters-electricos/

Most of those that I see around here are parked outside a dingy pub.

--
Eddie eddie@deguello.org

On 25/08/2023 16:13, wessie wrote:
> Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:pan$74f0$3f5450a5$303fa0a$6f343eb4@gmail.com:
>
>> El Fri, 25 Aug 2023 08:54:35 +0100, RustyHinge escribió:
>>
>>> On 25/08/2023 00:23, Mark Olson wrote:
>>>> Stephen Packer <stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, 17 August 2023 at 15:50:02 UTC+1, Stephen Packer
>>>>> wrote: <SNIP>
>>>>
>>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>>> More importantly it's fun to ride something different.
>>>>
>>>> All that needed saying, really.
>>>>
>>>> I'm really tempted to get an electric pushbike as my next 'vehicle',
>>>> but I'd also be open to something like this.
>>>>
>>> Anyone invented an electric Zimmer, yet?
>>
>>
>> The days of gimmers with zimmers are all but gone. Around here, once
>> past a certain age, everyone gets one of these:
>>
>> https://www.mobilityscooter.es/scooters-electricos/
>>
>>
>
> not only age in the UK, once past a kg threshold

I think it was Peter Kay who called them ELCs - Electric Lard Chariots

--
Bruce Horrocks
FJR1300AS

On 25/08/2023 23:13 wessie penned these words:
>> The days of gimmers with zimmers are all but gone. Around here, once
>> past a certain age, everyone gets one of these:
>>
>> https://www.mobilityscooter.es/scooters-electricos/
>>
>>
> not only age in the UK, once past a kg threshold

First time I worked in Dallas and went into one of the malls, never seen so many
people on mobility scooters whose disability was they were fat cunts.
--
Ian

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of
the last priest"

Bruce Horrocks wrote:

> On 25/08/2023 16:13, wessie wrote:
> >
> > not only age in the UK, once past a kg threshold
>
> I think it was Peter Kay who called them ELCs - Electric Lard Chariots

The comedian Simon Evans (I think) calls them obesycles.

--
Chris