I notice that BT is basically vacating local exchange sites and flogging of
the plots. It got me to thinking what has replaced exchanges these days? In
the old system of switches the numbers automatically passed the call to
another exchange etc etc, which meant some of the routing started locally.
Is this still how it all works except its all basically software at a local
level passing stuff on and what occupied a small building is now in some
cupboard somewhere?
Brian

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Brian Gaff wrote:

> I notice that BT is basically vacating local exchange sites and flogging of
> the plots.

They flogged them over 20 years ago (and have been renting them back).

Oh, I never did understand that ploy. Where I worked did that with their
main building. The result seemed to be that the building started to fall to
bits and leak until it had to be knocked down. It was owned by an insurance
conglomerate.
Brian

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"Andy Burns" <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote in message
news:ku5iflFe7s3U1@mid.individual.net...
> Brian Gaff wrote:
>
>> I notice that BT is basically vacating local exchange sites and flogging
>> of
>> the plots.
>
> They flogged them over 20 years ago (and have been renting them back).

On 16/12/2023 12:02, Brian Gaff wrote:
> I notice that BT is basically vacating local exchange sites and flogging of
> the plots. It got me to thinking what has replaced exchanges these days? In
> the old system of switches the numbers automatically passed the call to
> another exchange etc etc, which meant some of the routing started locally.
> Is this still how it all works except its all basically software at a local
> level passing stuff on and what occupied a small building is now in some
> cupboard somewhere?

Those changes happened over 30 years ago. System X put remote
concentrators into the exchange buildings, but the actual switching was
done in a small number of main switching centres. I think the local
concentrators had a limited ability for very local calls and for 999.

The current replacement for exchanges is unpowered green cabinets, with
passive fibre optic splitters and combiners.

On 16 Dec 2023 12:02, "Brian Gaff" wrote:
> I notice that BT is basically vacating local exchange sites and flogging of
> the plots. It got me to thinking what has replaced exchanges these days? In
> the old system of switches the numbers automatically passed the call to
> another exchange etc etc, which meant some of the routing started locally.
> Is this still how it all works except its all basically software at a local
> level passing stuff on and what occupied a small building is now in some
> cupboard somewhere?
> Brian

BT is moving away from System X and System Y driving copper twisted
pair to everything being a VOIP call over whatever bearer is
appropriate.

The underlying access network is generally provided by Openreach. When
there is no longer a need for a "frame" in a building they will move to
a very limited number of Openreach Handover Points (OHPs) where the
fibre network converges and is driven from. That is where the data
connection to whichever provider the end user is consuming will be.

This will take some time.

Am 16.12.2023 um 12:02:27 Uhr schrieb Brian Gaff:

> I notice that BT is basically vacating local exchange sites and
> flogging of the plots. It got me to thinking what has replaced
> exchanges these days? In the old system of switches the numbers
> automatically passed the call to another exchange etc etc, which
> meant some of the routing started locally. Is this still how it all
> works except its all basically software at a local level passing
> stuff on and what occupied a small building is now in some cupboard
> somewhere?

IIRC most telephone traffic is done via VoIP and the VoIP exchanges
need the information on which ISP a number is located and routes the
call to it. It can also use other carriers to route it there, but they
usually want money for that.

The ISPs exchange the information where a number is located and also
inform other about changes, when somebody migrates a number from one to
another ISP.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_number_portability

Although that might be different between certain countries and
telephone exchange systems.

On 16/12/2023 12:14, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Oh, I never did understand that ploy. Where I worked did that with their
> main building. The result seemed to be that the building started to fall to
> bits and leak until it had to be knocked down. It was owned by an insurance
> conglomerate.
> Brian

But the beancounters love leasing things.

On 16/12/2023 13:02, David Woolley wrote:
> Those changes happened over 30 years ago.  System X put remote
> concentrators into the exchange buildings, but the actual switching was
> done in a small number of main switching centres.  I think the local
> concentrators had a limited ability for very local calls and for 999.
>
> The current replacement for exchanges is unpowered green cabinets, with
> passive fibre optic splitters and combiners.

I have been wondering about how local BT sites. They previously let
out, or tried to, some space at the exchange.

But this year they have completely rebuilt the TEC which is out of town.
The exchange has various microwave dishes on the roof, they have put a
couple of substantial handrails (or mountings?) on the roof of the TEC.
So I have wondered if they planned to move out to there and sell or let
the exchange site though, like many place, there are quite a lot of
unused buildings around the town though it could be a good site if sold.

JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
> I have been wondering about how local BT sites. They previously let
> out, or tried to, some space at the exchange.
>
> But this year they have completely rebuilt the TEC which is out of town.
> The exchange has various microwave dishes on the roof, they have put a
> couple of substantial handrails (or mountings?) on the roof of the TEC.
> So I have wondered if they planned to move out to there and sell or let
> the exchange site though, like many place, there are quite a lot of
> unused buildings around the town though it could be a good site if sold.

They'll keep roughly 1000 of the 4000 exchanges. If the exchange is doing
more stuff than just being a giant copper to fibre converter then they may
keep it.

I suppose they could also keep the building but sublet the exchange floors -
so the roof and associated cabling stays as-is, but the space where the
racks used to be is leased to another business as office space or whatever.

Theo

How does that work? Surely, what you gain by flogging it you use on leasing
it, and then have to move because the building is not maintained by the new
owners.
Brian

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"JMB99" <mb@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:ulkq2t$2go5l$1@dont-email.me...
> On 16/12/2023 12:14, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> Oh, I never did understand that ploy. Where I worked did that with their
>> main building. The result seemed to be that the building started to fall
>> to
>> bits and leak until it had to be knocked down. It was owned by an
>> insurance
>> conglomerate.
>> Brian
>
>
> But the beancounters love leasing things.

Yes well there is one of those green cabinets in Surbiton that you can hear
buzzingfrom across the road.
Brian

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"David Woolley" <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote in message
news:ulk75f$2dndc$1@dont-email.me...
> On 16/12/2023 12:02, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> I notice that BT is basically vacating local exchange sites and flogging
>> of
>> the plots. It got me to thinking what has replaced exchanges these days?
>> In
>> the old system of switches the numbers automatically passed the call to
>> another exchange etc etc, which meant some of the routing started
>> locally.
>> Is this still how it all works except its all basically software at a
>> local
>> level passing stuff on and what occupied a small building is now in some
>> cupboard somewhere?
>
>
> Those changes happened over 30 years ago. System X put remote
> concentrators into the exchange buildings, but the actual switching was
> done in a small number of main switching centres. I think the local
> concentrators had a limited ability for very local calls and for 999.
>
> The current replacement for exchanges is unpowered green cabinets, with
> passive fibre optic splitters and combiners.

As I say, passive seems not to be the way they do things around here, hence
the hum. As for buildings. In my youth, the local exchange was about half
way between me and my school, it had two number ranges, 397 and 399, with
some in another building that were 390. I'd imagine that numbers now are so
portable, they basically mean nothing with regard to where they actually
are.
Brian

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"JMB99" <mb@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:ulkqbn$2go5l$2@dont-email.me...
> On 16/12/2023 13:02, David Woolley wrote:
>> Those changes happened over 30 years ago. System X put remote
>> concentrators into the exchange buildings, but the actual switching was
>> done in a small number of main switching centres. I think the local
>> concentrators had a limited ability for very local calls and for 999.
>>
>> The current replacement for exchanges is unpowered green cabinets, with
>> passive fibre optic splitters and combiners.
>
>
> I have been wondering about how local BT sites. They previously let out,
> or tried to, some space at the exchange.
>
> But this year they have completely rebuilt the TEC which is out of town.
> The exchange has various microwave dishes on the roof, they have put a
> couple of substantial handrails (or mountings?) on the roof of the TEC. So
> I have wondered if they planned to move out to there and sell or let the
> exchange site though, like many place, there are quite a lot of unused
> buildings around the town though it could be a good site if sold.
>
>

Yes, well quite a lot of phones around here are still copper. Both bt and
Virgin, but I'm told as faults occur the wiring is not repaired and instead
it goes voip. This got me wondering if they offer a basic internet
connection for the price of the line so more elderly people can get on line.
This is what is needed at the movement to push the few who are not on line
toward learning about how to do it.
Brian

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"Marco Moock" <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> wrote in message
news:ulkcph$2ei7f$1@dont-email.me...
> Am 16.12.2023 um 12:02:27 Uhr schrieb Brian Gaff:
>
>> I notice that BT is basically vacating local exchange sites and
>> flogging of the plots. It got me to thinking what has replaced
>> exchanges these days? In the old system of switches the numbers
>> automatically passed the call to another exchange etc etc, which
>> meant some of the routing started locally. Is this still how it all
>> works except its all basically software at a local level passing
>> stuff on and what occupied a small building is now in some cupboard
>> somewhere?
>
> IIRC most telephone traffic is done via VoIP and the VoIP exchanges
> need the information on which ISP a number is located and routes the
> call to it. It can also use other carriers to route it there, but they
> usually want money for that.
>
> The ISPs exchange the information where a number is located and also
> inform other about changes, when somebody migrates a number from one to
> another ISP.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_number_portability
>
> Although that might be different between certain countries and
> telephone exchange systems.
>

On 18/12/2023 08:58, Brian Gaff wrote:
> How does that work? Surely, what you gain by flogging it you use on leasing
> it, and then have to move because the building is not maintained by the new
> owners.
> Brian
>

When you flog it, you can probably pay no capital gains tax on it as it
is arguably a fully depreciated asset, and leasing is a fully tax
deductible cost.

That is why companies lease everything. Or if they have assets, will
have them at some level use as collateral to raise money on.

SA a business you want to won as little as possible. First of all if it
goes bust, that all gets seized. Secondly it represents money you cant
invest in whatever else it is that makes money for your business.
Thirdly it can't go into directors pockets.

--
"An intellectual is a person knowledgeable in one field who speaks out
only in others...”

Tom Wolfe

On 18/12/2023 09:05, Brian Gaff wrote:
> As I say, passive seems not to be the way they do things around here, hence
> the hum. As for buildings. In my youth, the local exchange was about half
> way between me and my school, it had two number ranges, 397 and 399, with
> some in another building that were 390. I'd imagine that numbers now are so
> portable, they basically mean nothing with regard to where they actually
> are.

The current green vcabinets for FTTC are obviously powered, because they
contain DSLAMS to terminate the copper lines.

Once there is no more copper, there will be no more power needed.

--
Climate is what you expect but weather is what you get.
Mark Twain

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 18/12/2023 09:05, Brian Gaff wrote:
> > As I say, passive seems not to be the way they do things around here, hence
> > the hum. As for buildings. In my youth, the local exchange was about half
> > way between me and my school, it had two number ranges, 397 and 399, with
> > some in another building that were 390. I'd imagine that numbers now are so
> > portable, they basically mean nothing with regard to where they actually
> > are.
>
> The current green vcabinets for FTTC are obviously powered, because they
> contain DSLAMS to terminate the copper lines.
>
>
> Once there is no more copper, there will be no more power needed.

We can modulate the daylight onto the ends of the fibre. (Of course the
'phones won't work at night, but there's a get-out clause about that in
the contract.)

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

On 18/12/2023 08:58, Brian Gaff wrote:
> How does that work? Surely, what you gain by flogging it you use on leasing
> it, and then have to move because the building is not maintained by the new
> owners.

You are using logic but dealing with beancounters.

On 18/12/2023 09:15, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> Once there is no more copper, there will be no more power needed.

How do you monitor that state of the equipment in a cabinet without some
power to the cabinet?

JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 18/12/2023 09:15, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> Once there is no more copper, there will be no more power needed.
>
>
> How do you monitor that state of the equipment in a cabinet without some
> power to the cabinet?
>
What equipment? Think of it like the telephone cabinets pre Internet days.
It’s just passive connectivity, but using optics rather than copper. A
failure of the link will be flagged at the head end and the location of the
fault can probably be determined by how many customers are without service.
Eg if it’s just a few it will be at or after the final splitter. None of
the CityFibre cabinets round here have power supplies.

On 18/12/2023 10:38, JMB99 wrote:
> On 18/12/2023 08:58, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> How does that work? Surely, what you gain by flogging it you use on
>> leasing
>> it, and then have to move because the building is not maintained by
>> the new
>> owners.
>
>
>
> You are using logic but dealing with beancounters.
>
>
Beancounters are very logical. Their job is to maximise return of the
business using the information at their disposal. Unfortunately that
often does not include the vital information of how many customers they
will lose if a given service is discontinued, or a marketing brand is
pushed using woke advertising.

In the case of leaseback it has zero impact on the operational side of
the business and a hugely positive effect on company cash flow and
profitability.

--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

On 18/12/2023 10:42, JMB99 wrote:
> How do you monitor that state of the equipment in a cabinet without some
> power to the cabinet?
>

Time domain reflectometry

JMB99 wrote:

> How do you monitor that state of the equipment in a cabinet without some
> power to the cabinet?

If all that's in the cabinet is a fibre splice, like virgin "lightning"
cabs you don't.

some BT splices may be in cabinets, or up poles, but largely they're in
"pods" underground

<https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcStAkmNjz2vbOGEvuoiit35ZwnQvTls4Af7JA&usqp=CAU>

again you don't monitor, if there are problems ytou can either use TDR
to find the break, or work out from the point beyond which splitter no
endpoints work where to send the man&van

Are we creating a society of two levels, those who can use the internet and
those who don't?. As more and more services are on line only, it does worry
me somewhat. Brian

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"Brian Gaff" <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ulp2bm$3e94r$1@dont-email.me...
> Yes, well quite a lot of phones around here are still copper. Both bt and
> Virgin, but I'm told as faults occur the wiring is not repaired and
> instead it goes voip. This got me wondering if they offer a basic internet
> connection for the price of the line so more elderly people can get on
> line. This is what is needed at the movement to push the few who are not
> on line toward learning about how to do it.
> Brian
>
> --
>
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> The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
> briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
> Blind user, so no pictures please
> Note this Signature is meaningless.!
> "Marco Moock" <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> wrote in message
> news:ulkcph$2ei7f$1@dont-email.me...
>> Am 16.12.2023 um 12:02:27 Uhr schrieb Brian Gaff:
>>
>>> I notice that BT is basically vacating local exchange sites and
>>> flogging of the plots. It got me to thinking what has replaced
>>> exchanges these days? In the old system of switches the numbers
>>> automatically passed the call to another exchange etc etc, which
>>> meant some of the routing started locally. Is this still how it all
>>> works except its all basically software at a local level passing
>>> stuff on and what occupied a small building is now in some cupboard
>>> somewhere?
>>
>> IIRC most telephone traffic is done via VoIP and the VoIP exchanges
>> need the information on which ISP a number is located and routes the
>> call to it. It can also use other carriers to route it there, but they
>> usually want money for that.
>>
>> The ISPs exchange the information where a number is located and also
>> inform other about changes, when somebody migrates a number from one to
>> another ISP.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_number_portability
>>
>> Although that might be different between certain countries and
>> telephone exchange systems.
>>
>
>