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aus+uk / uk.telecom / Re: In the Mail today

SubjectAuthor
* In the Mail todayJMB99
+- In the Mail todayScott
+* In the Mail todayMarco Moock
|`* In the Mail todayScott
| `* In the Mail todayMarco Moock
|  `* In the Mail todayScott
|   +* In the Mail todayNick Finnigan
|   |+* In the Mail todayScott
|   ||+* In the Mail todayNick Finnigan
|   |||`- In the Mail todayScott
|   ||`* In the Mail todayTweed
|   || `* In the Mail todayScott
|   ||  `* In the Mail todayTweed
|   ||   `* In the Mail todayScott
|   ||    `* In the Mail todayTweed
|   ||     `* In the Mail todayScott
|   ||      `* In the Mail todayTweed
|   ||       +* In the Mail todayScott
|   ||       |`* In the Mail todayMarco Moock
|   ||       | `* In the Mail todayScott
|   ||       |  +* In the Mail todayRichmond
|   ||       |  |`- In the Mail todayMarco Moock
|   ||       |  `* In the Mail todayMarco Moock
|   ||       |   `* In the Mail todayThe Natural Philosopher
|   ||       |    `* In the Mail todayScott
|   ||       |     +* In the Mail todayTweed
|   ||       |     |`* In the Mail todayScott
|   ||       |     | +- In the Mail todayTweed
|   ||       |     | `* In the Mail todayThe Natural Philosopher
|   ||       |     |  `* In the Mail todayScott
|   ||       |     |   `- In the Mail todayThe Natural Philosopher
|   ||       |     +* In the Mail todayRichmond
|   ||       |     |+- In the Mail todayScott
|   ||       |     |+* In the Mail todayTweed
|   ||       |     ||`- In the Mail todayThe Natural Philosopher
|   ||       |     |+* In the Mail todayMarco Moock
|   ||       |     ||`- In the Mail todayThe Natural Philosopher
|   ||       |     |`- In the Mail todayThe Natural Philosopher
|   ||       |     `* In the Mail todayThe Natural Philosopher
|   ||       |      `* In the Mail todayScott
|   ||       |       `* In the Mail todayThe Natural Philosopher
|   ||       |        `- In the Mail todayScott
|   ||       `* In the Mail todayTheo
|   ||        `* In the Mail todayRichmond
|   ||         +* In the Mail todayScott
|   ||         |+* In the Mail todayRichmond
|   ||         ||+- In the Mail todayScott
|   ||         ||+* In the Mail todayTweed
|   ||         |||`* In the Mail todayRichmond
|   ||         ||| +* In the Mail todayTweed
|   ||         ||| |+* In the Mail todayRichmond
|   ||         ||| ||+* In the Mail todayTweed
|   ||         ||| |||`- In the Mail todayMarco Moock
|   ||         ||| ||`* In the Mail todayMarco Moock
|   ||         ||| || `* In the Mail todayRichmond
|   ||         ||| ||  `- In the Mail todayMarco Moock
|   ||         ||| |`* In the Mail todayThe Natural Philosopher
|   ||         ||| | +- In the Mail todayTweed
|   ||         ||| | `* Re: In the Mail todayRupert Moss-Eccardt
|   ||         ||| |  `* Re: In the Mail todayThe Natural Philosopher
|   ||         ||| |   +* Re: In the Mail todayTweed
|   ||         ||| |   |`* Re: In the Mail todayThe Natural Philosopher
|   ||         ||| |   | `* Re: In the Mail todayTweed
|   ||         ||| |   |  `* Re: In the Mail todayThe Natural Philosopher
|   ||         ||| |   |   +* Re: In the Mail todayTweed
|   ||         ||| |   |   |`* Re: In the Mail todayThe Natural Philosopher
|   ||         ||| |   |   | +* Re: In the Mail todayChris Green
|   ||         ||| |   |   | |`* Re: In the Mail todayTim+
|   ||         ||| |   |   | | `- Re: In the Mail todayThe Natural Philosopher
|   ||         ||| |   |   | +* Re: In the Mail todayMike Humphrey
|   ||         ||| |   |   | |`- Re: In the Mail todayThe Natural Philosopher
|   ||         ||| |   |   | `* Re: In the Mail todayRupert Moss-Eccardt
|   ||         ||| |   |   |  `- Re: In the Mail todayThe Natural Philosopher
|   ||         ||| |   |   `- Re: In the Mail todayRupert Moss-Eccardt
|   ||         ||| |   +* Re: In the Mail todayAndy Burns
|   ||         ||| |   |+* Re: In the Mail todayThe Natural Philosopher
|   ||         ||| |   ||`* Re: In the Mail todayAndy Burns
|   ||         ||| |   || +- Re: In the Mail todayThe Natural Philosopher
|   ||         ||| |   || `* Re: In the Mail todayTim+
|   ||         ||| |   ||  `- Re: In the Mail todayThe Natural Philosopher
|   ||         ||| |   |`* Re: In the Mail todayTheo
|   ||         ||| |   | +- Re: In the Mail todayAndy Burns
|   ||         ||| |   | +- Re: In the Mail todayDavid Woolley
|   ||         ||| |   | `- Re: In the Mail todayRupert Moss-Eccardt
|   ||         ||| |   `- Re: In the Mail todayRupert Moss-Eccardt
|   ||         ||| `- In the Mail todayThe Natural Philosopher
|   ||         ||`* In the Mail todayMarco Moock
|   ||         || +- In the Mail todayThe Natural Philosopher
|   ||         || `* In the Mail todayAndy Burns
|   ||         ||  `* In the Mail todayMarco Moock
|   ||         ||   +* In the Mail todayTweed
|   ||         ||   |`- In the Mail todayMarco Moock
|   ||         ||   `* In the Mail todayAndy Burns
|   ||         ||    `- In the Mail todayThe Natural Philosopher
|   ||         |+* In the Mail todayLiz Tuddenham
|   ||         ||+- In the Mail todayScott
|   ||         ||`* In the Mail todayThe Natural Philosopher
|   ||         || `* In the Mail todayLiz Tuddenham
|   ||         ||  `* In the Mail todayThe Natural Philosopher
|   ||         ||   `- In the Mail todayLiz Tuddenham
|   ||         |`* In the Mail todayMarco Moock
|   ||         +* In the Mail todayThe Natural Philosopher
|   ||         +- In the Mail todayChris Stiles
|   ||         `- In the Mail todayMarco Moock
|   |`* In the Mail todayAndy Burns
|   +* In the Mail todayMarco Moock
|   `* In the Mail todayKen
+* In the Mail todayAdrian Caspersz
+* In the Mail todayMark Carver
+* In the Mail todayKen
`* Re: In the Mail todayBrian Gaff

Pages:12345678
In the Mail today

<un3ca8$35q01$1@dont-email.me>

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https://news.novabbs.org/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1973&group=uk.telecom#1973

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From: mb@nospam.net (JMB99)
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
Subject: In the Mail today
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2024 10:18:49 +0000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: JMB99 - Wed, 3 Jan 2024 10:18 UTC

Pensioners launch boycott of forced BT digital landline switchover:
Brits told DON'T cooperate with rollout and send protest letters to
telecoms providers instead amid fears millions could be left in the dark
in the event of outages

Re: In the Mail today

<q5dapitugnalfgc31fpl387tc941kfef80@4ax.com>

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https://news.novabbs.org/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1974&group=uk.telecom#1974

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From: newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk (Scott)
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
Subject: Re: In the Mail today
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2024 10:20:48 +0000
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 by: Scott - Wed, 3 Jan 2024 10:20 UTC

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 10:18:49 +0000, JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:

>Pensioners launch boycott of forced BT digital landline switchover:
>Brits told DON'T cooperate with rollout and send protest letters to
>telecoms providers instead amid fears millions could be left in the dark
>in the event of outages

Some might observe this is good timing, with an election coming up. I
wonder what Starmer's policy is this week.

Re: In the Mail today

<un3dkb$35tnp$1@dont-email.me>

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https://news.novabbs.org/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1975&group=uk.telecom#1975

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From: mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de (Marco Moock)
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
Subject: Re: In the Mail today
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2024 11:41:14 +0100
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 by: Marco Moock - Wed, 3 Jan 2024 10:41 UTC

Am 03.01.2024 um 10:18:49 Uhr schrieb JMB99:

> Pensioners launch boycott of forced BT digital landline switchover:
> Brits told DON'T cooperate with rollout and send protest letters to
> telecoms providers instead amid fears millions could be left in the
> dark in the event of outages

Can't the carriers simply cancel the old contracts with them if they
don't provide the service anymore and the customers are unwilling to
switch to the replacement product?

Here in Germany it happened exactly that way.

Re: In the Mail today

<kvl0t0Fnl85U1@mid.individual.net>

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https://news.novabbs.org/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1976&group=uk.telecom#1976

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From: email@here.invalid (Adrian Caspersz)
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
Subject: Re: In the Mail today
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2024 12:05:52 +0000
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 by: Adrian Caspersz - Wed, 3 Jan 2024 12:05 UTC

On 03/01/2024 10:18, JMB99 wrote:
> Pensioners launch boycott of forced BT digital landline switchover:
> Brits told DON'T cooperate with rollout and send protest letters to
> telecoms providers instead amid fears millions could be left in the dark
> in the event of outages

Did pensioners arrive here from another planet and completely skip a
life of things continuously changing over time?

Or,

Is the daily mail taking the piss out of them (again), to scam them of
more of their money, while making them feel more incapable in this "new"
world?

If only they would write items of actual advice and educate....

--
Adrian C

Re: In the Mail today

<sakapihbluuacv10t2r0gdq31ovorurvro@4ax.com>

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From: newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk (Scott)
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
Subject: Re: In the Mail today
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2024 12:23:19 +0000
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 by: Scott - Wed, 3 Jan 2024 12:23 UTC

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 11:41:14 +0100, Marco Moock
<mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> wrote:

>Am 03.01.2024 um 10:18:49 Uhr schrieb JMB99:
>
>> Pensioners launch boycott of forced BT digital landline switchover:
>> Brits told DON'T cooperate with rollout and send protest letters to
>> telecoms providers instead amid fears millions could be left in the
>> dark in the event of outages
>
>Can't the carriers simply cancel the old contracts with them if they
>don't provide the service anymore and the customers are unwilling to
>switch to the replacement product?
>
>Here in Germany it happened exactly that way.

I wonder what the universal service obligation and equality law say
about this, if the evidence suggests that pensioners are
disproportionately affected (age being a protected characteristic).

Re: In the Mail today

<un3mke$374sh$1@dont-email.me>

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https://news.novabbs.org/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1978&group=uk.telecom#1978

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From: mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de (Marco Moock)
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
Subject: Re: In the Mail today
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:14:54 +0100
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 by: Marco Moock - Wed, 3 Jan 2024 13:14 UTC

Am 03.01.2024 um 12:23:19 Uhr schrieb Scott:

> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 11:41:14 +0100, Marco Moock
> <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> wrote:
>
> >Am 03.01.2024 um 10:18:49 Uhr schrieb JMB99:
> >
> >> Pensioners launch boycott of forced BT digital landline
> >> switchover: Brits told DON'T cooperate with rollout and send
> >> protest letters to telecoms providers instead amid fears millions
> >> could be left in the dark in the event of outages
> >
> >Can't the carriers simply cancel the old contracts with them if they
> >don't provide the service anymore and the customers are unwilling to
> >switch to the replacement product?
> >
> >Here in Germany it happened exactly that way.
>
> I wonder what the universal service obligation and equality law say
> about this, if the evidence suggests that pensioners are
> disproportionately affected (age being a protected characteristic).

They are not excluded from the telephone service, they just need
another technology to use it.
With a terminal adapter (included in most home user routers) old analog
rotary phones with pulse dialing can still be used.

Do the carriers install the devices at the customer's home or do they
need to install them themselves?

Re: In the Mail today

<un3msj$374sh$2@dont-email.me>

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https://news.novabbs.org/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1979&group=uk.telecom#1979

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From: mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de (Marco Moock)
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
Subject: Re: In the Mail today
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:19:15 +0100
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 by: Marco Moock - Wed, 3 Jan 2024 13:19 UTC

Am 03.01.2024 um 12:05:52 Uhr schrieb Adrian Caspersz:

> On 03/01/2024 10:18, JMB99 wrote:
> > Pensioners launch boycott of forced BT digital landline switchover:
> > Brits told DON'T cooperate with rollout and send protest letters to
> > telecoms providers instead amid fears millions could be left in the
> > dark in the event of outages
>
> Did pensioners arrive here from another planet and completely skip a
> life of things continuously changing over time?

Some of them really do that.
I know people who refuse to use computers.

In the past this also happened.

My grandfather told me that his grandmother (so my great-great
grandmother) refused to use a telephone because she though the devil is
inside.

Many eldery people here in Germany have an analog line (terminated to
VoIP at the cabinet) and an analog phone attached, some still have
their old phones from the 60s, 70s and 80s, but the amount of them is
small.
Most have newer wireless DECT telephones.

Re: In the Mail today

<uqoapi12j3egsrr1osvjbjl4nnt0ce4gm3@4ax.com>

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https://news.novabbs.org/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1980&group=uk.telecom#1980

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From: newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk (Scott)
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
Subject: Re: In the Mail today
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2024 13:39:53 +0000
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 by: Scott - Wed, 3 Jan 2024 13:39 UTC

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:14:54 +0100, Marco Moock
<mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> wrote:

>Am 03.01.2024 um 12:23:19 Uhr schrieb Scott:
>
>> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 11:41:14 +0100, Marco Moock
>> <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> wrote:
>>
>> >Am 03.01.2024 um 10:18:49 Uhr schrieb JMB99:
>> >
>> >> Pensioners launch boycott of forced BT digital landline
>> >> switchover: Brits told DON'T cooperate with rollout and send
>> >> protest letters to telecoms providers instead amid fears millions
>> >> could be left in the dark in the event of outages
>> >
>> >Can't the carriers simply cancel the old contracts with them if they
>> >don't provide the service anymore and the customers are unwilling to
>> >switch to the replacement product?
>> >
>> >Here in Germany it happened exactly that way.
>>
>> I wonder what the universal service obligation and equality law say
>> about this, if the evidence suggests that pensioners are
>> disproportionately affected (age being a protected characteristic).
>
>They are not excluded from the telephone service

They will be if there is a power cut of more than one hour.

>, they just need
>another technology to use it.
>With a terminal adapter (included in most home user routers) old analog
>rotary phones with pulse dialing can still be used.
>
>Do the carriers install the devices at the customer's home or do they
>need to install them themselves?

Re: In the Mail today

<muoapi5mtmkjfr63thk4q2peib06lmn0bc@4ax.com>

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https://news.novabbs.org/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=1981&group=uk.telecom#1981

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From: newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk (Scott)
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
Subject: Re: In the Mail today
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2024 13:41:22 +0000
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 by: Scott - Wed, 3 Jan 2024 13:41 UTC

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:19:15 +0100, Marco Moock
<mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> wrote:

>Am 03.01.2024 um 12:05:52 Uhr schrieb Adrian Caspersz:
>
>> On 03/01/2024 10:18, JMB99 wrote:
>> > Pensioners launch boycott of forced BT digital landline switchover:
>> > Brits told DON'T cooperate with rollout and send protest letters to
>> > telecoms providers instead amid fears millions could be left in the
>> > dark in the event of outages
>>
>> Did pensioners arrive here from another planet and completely skip a
>> life of things continuously changing over time?
>
>Some of them really do that.
>I know people who refuse to use computers.
>
>In the past this also happened.
>
>My grandfather told me that his grandmother (so my great-great
>grandmother) refused to use a telephone because she though the devil is
>inside.

I heard of a dog going round the back of the TV set because he thought
there was another dog inside.
>
>Many eldery people here in Germany have an analog line (terminated to
>VoIP at the cabinet) and an analog phone attached, some still have
>their old phones from the 60s, 70s and 80s, but the amount of them is
>small.
>Most have newer wireless DECT telephones.

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From: nix@genie.co.uk (Nick Finnigan)
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
Subject: Re: In the Mail today
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:25:09 +0000
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 by: Nick Finnigan - Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:25 UTC

On 03/01/2024 13:39, Scott wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:14:54 +0100, Marco Moock
> <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> wrote:
>
>> Am 03.01.2024 um 12:23:19 Uhr schrieb Scott:
>>
>>> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 11:41:14 +0100, Marco Moock
>>> <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Am 03.01.2024 um 10:18:49 Uhr schrieb JMB99:
>>>>
>>>>> Pensioners launch boycott of forced BT digital landline
>>>>> switchover: Brits told DON'T cooperate with rollout and send
>>>>> protest letters to telecoms providers instead amid fears millions
>>>>> could be left in the dark in the event of outages
>>>>
>>>> Can't the carriers simply cancel the old contracts with them if they
>>>> don't provide the service anymore and the customers are unwilling to
>>>> switch to the replacement product?
>>>>
>>>> Here in Germany it happened exactly that way.
>>>
>>> I wonder what the universal service obligation and equality law say
>>> about this, if the evidence suggests that pensioners are
>>> disproportionately affected (age being a protected characteristic).

There has to be a one hour emergency option available for people with
poor indoor mobile coverage.
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/123118/guidance-emergency-access-power-cut.pdf

>>
>> They are not excluded from the telephone service
>
> They will be if there is a power cut of more than one hour.

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
Subject: Re: In the Mail today
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:30:58 +0000
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:30 UTC

On 03/01/2024 13:19, Marco Moock wrote:
> Am 03.01.2024 um 12:05:52 Uhr schrieb Adrian Caspersz:
>
>> On 03/01/2024 10:18, JMB99 wrote:
>>> Pensioners launch boycott of forced BT digital landline switchover:
>>> Brits told DON'T cooperate with rollout and send protest letters to
>>> telecoms providers instead amid fears millions could be left in the
>>> dark in the event of outages
>>
>> Did pensioners arrive here from another planet and completely skip a
>> life of things continuously changing over time?
>
> Some of them really do that.
> I know people who refuse to use computers.
>
I know people who refuse to use them because they are incapable of
understanding the programmers logic. I sympathise with them.

> In the past this also happened.
>
> My grandfather told me that his grandmother (so my great-great
> grandmother) refused to use a telephone because she though the devil is
> inside.
>
My elderly friends aunt always put things in the 13A sockets and left
dead bulbs in the bayonets to 'stop electricity leaking out'.
Many friends of my age group have simply stopped watching TV altogether,
since they are old enough to know when they are being patronised and
treated with utter contempt.

No one expects genuine unbiased news in the papers any more except
people who read the Guardian.

> Many eldery people here in Germany have an analog line (terminated to
> VoIP at the cabinet) and an analog phone attached, some still have
> their old phones from the 60s, 70s and 80s, but the amount of them is
> small.
> Most have newer wireless DECT telephones.
>
Germany is collapsing anyway. It's about to crash very hard and probably
take the Eurozone with it.

Be lucky to have fresh water, let alone a working phone.

--
"Nature does not give up the winter because people dislike the cold."

― Confucius

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
Subject: Re: In the Mail today
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:32:23 +0000
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:32 UTC

On 03/01/2024 13:41, Scott wrote:

> I heard of a dog going round the back of the TV set because he thought
> there was another dog inside.
The only time my cat took the slightest notice of it was a program
featuring small rodents in reeds. Water voles I think. He used to catch
those a lot

--
Climate is what you expect but weather is what you get.
Mark Twain

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From: newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk (Scott)
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
Subject: Re: In the Mail today
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2024 14:37:39 +0000
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 by: Scott - Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:37 UTC

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:25:09 +0000, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 03/01/2024 13:39, Scott wrote:
>> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:14:54 +0100, Marco Moock
>> <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> wrote:
>>
>>> Am 03.01.2024 um 12:23:19 Uhr schrieb Scott:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 11:41:14 +0100, Marco Moock
>>>> <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Am 03.01.2024 um 10:18:49 Uhr schrieb JMB99:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Pensioners launch boycott of forced BT digital landline
>>>>>> switchover: Brits told DON'T cooperate with rollout and send
>>>>>> protest letters to telecoms providers instead amid fears millions
>>>>>> could be left in the dark in the event of outages
>>>>>
>>>>> Can't the carriers simply cancel the old contracts with them if they
>>>>> don't provide the service anymore and the customers are unwilling to
>>>>> switch to the replacement product?
>>>>>
>>>>> Here in Germany it happened exactly that way.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder what the universal service obligation and equality law say
>>>> about this, if the evidence suggests that pensioners are
>>>> disproportionately affected (age being a protected characteristic).
>
> There has to be a one hour emergency option available for people with
>poor indoor mobile coverage.
>https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/123118/guidance-emergency-access-power-cut.pdf
>
(Quote)
2.13 In December 2011, Ofcom published revised guidelines on how
providers supplying voice
services over Fibre to the Premises (FTTP) networks could meet the
requirements of the
General Conditions (the 2011 Guidance).5 The 2011 Guidance consisted
of three principles
which applied to both new-build and ‘overlay’ FTTP deployments:
1. A battery back-up should always be provided to support publicly
available telephone
services (PATS) provided over FTTP.
2. The minimum duration of the back-up facility should be 1 hour.
3. Providers should take appropriate steps to ensure that the needs of
consumers
requiring additional protection, and who depend on 999/112 to a
greater extent than
the majority of the population, are addressed.

What do you envisage to comply with para 3 then?
>>>
>>> They are not excluded from the telephone service
>>
>> They will be if there is a power cut of more than one hour.

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From: harrogate3@ntlworld.com (Woody)
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
Subject: Re: In the Mail today
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:38:46 +0000
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 by: Woody - Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:38 UTC

On Wed 03/01/2024 14:30, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 03/01/2024 13:19, Marco Moock wrote:
>> Am 03.01.2024 um 12:05:52 Uhr schrieb Adrian Caspersz:
>>
>>> On 03/01/2024 10:18, JMB99 wrote:
>>>> Pensioners launch boycott of forced BT digital landline switchover:
>>>> Brits told DON'T cooperate with rollout and send protest letters to
>>>> telecoms providers instead amid fears millions could be left in the
>>>> dark in the event of outages
>>>
>>> Did pensioners arrive here from another planet and completely skip a
>>> life of things continuously changing over time?
>>
>> Some of them really do that.
>> I know people who refuse to use computers.
>>
> I know people who refuse to use them because they are incapable of
> understanding the programmers logic. I sympathise with them.

So you've met my wife then?

>
>> In the past this also happened.
>>
>> My grandfather told me that his grandmother (so my great-great
>> grandmother) refused to use a telephone because she though the devil is
>> inside.
>>
> My elderly friends aunt always put things in the 13A sockets and left
> dead bulbs in the bayonets to 'stop electricity leaking out'.
> Many friends of my age group have simply stopped watching TV altogether,
> since they are old enough to know when they are being patronised and
> treated with utter contempt.
>
> No one expects genuine unbiased news in the papers any more except
> people who read the Guardian.
>
>> Many eldery people here in Germany have an analog line (terminated to
>> VoIP at the cabinet) and an analog phone attached, some still have
>> their old phones from the 60s, 70s and 80s, but the amount of them is
>> small.
>> Most have newer wireless DECT telephones.
>>
> Germany is collapsing anyway. It's about to crash very hard and probably
> take the Eurozone with it.
>
> Be lucky to have fresh water, let alone a working phone.
>
>

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From: newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk (Scott)
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
Subject: Re: In the Mail today
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2024 14:39:17 +0000
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 by: Scott - Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:39 UTC

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:30:58 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 03/01/2024 13:19, Marco Moock wrote:
>> Am 03.01.2024 um 12:05:52 Uhr schrieb Adrian Caspersz:
>>
>>> On 03/01/2024 10:18, JMB99 wrote:
>>>> Pensioners launch boycott of forced BT digital landline switchover:
>>>> Brits told DON'T cooperate with rollout and send protest letters to
>>>> telecoms providers instead amid fears millions could be left in the
>>>> dark in the event of outages
>>>
>>> Did pensioners arrive here from another planet and completely skip a
>>> life of things continuously changing over time?
>>
>> Some of them really do that.
>> I know people who refuse to use computers.
>>
>I know people who refuse to use them because they are incapable of
>understanding the programmers logic. I sympathise with them.
>
>> In the past this also happened.
>>
>> My grandfather told me that his grandmother (so my great-great
>> grandmother) refused to use a telephone because she though the devil is
>> inside.
>>
>My elderly friends aunt always put things in the 13A sockets and left
>dead bulbs in the bayonets to 'stop electricity leaking out'.

My aunt put them in 15A sockets.

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Newsgroups: uk.telecom
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 by: Scott - Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:44 UTC

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:32:23 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 03/01/2024 13:41, Scott wrote:
>
>> I heard of a dog going round the back of the TV set because he thought
>> there was another dog inside.
>The only time my cat took the slightest notice of it was a program
>featuring small rodents in reeds. Water voles I think. He used to catch
>those a lot

Friend of mine said they could not allow the dog to watch any David
Attenborough or other nature programme because if he saw a bear, he
would have a massive dump there and then.

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Subject: Re: In the Mail today
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 by: Nick Finnigan - Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:57 UTC

On 03/01/2024 14:37, Scott wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:25:09 +0000, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> On 03/01/2024 13:39, Scott wrote:
>>> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:14:54 +0100, Marco Moock
>>> <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Am 03.01.2024 um 12:23:19 Uhr schrieb Scott:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 11:41:14 +0100, Marco Moock
>>>>> <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 03.01.2024 um 10:18:49 Uhr schrieb JMB99:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pensioners launch boycott of forced BT digital landline
>>>>>>> switchover: Brits told DON'T cooperate with rollout and send
>>>>>>> protest letters to telecoms providers instead amid fears millions
>>>>>>> could be left in the dark in the event of outages
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can't the carriers simply cancel the old contracts with them if they
>>>>>> don't provide the service anymore and the customers are unwilling to
>>>>>> switch to the replacement product?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here in Germany it happened exactly that way.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder what the universal service obligation and equality law say
>>>>> about this, if the evidence suggests that pensioners are
>>>>> disproportionately affected (age being a protected characteristic).
>>
>> There has to be a one hour emergency option available for people with
>> poor indoor mobile coverage.
>> https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/123118/guidance-emergency-access-power-cut.pdf
>>
> (Quote)
> 2.13 In December 2011, Ofcom published revised guidelines on how
> providers supplying voice
> services over Fibre to the Premises (FTTP) networks could meet the
> requirements of the
> General Conditions (the 2011 Guidance).5 The 2011 Guidance consisted
> of three principles
> which applied to both new-build and ‘overlay’ FTTP deployments:
> 1. A battery back-up should always be provided to support publicly
> available telephone
> services (PATS) provided over FTTP.
> 2. The minimum duration of the back-up facility should be 1 hour.
> 3. Providers should take appropriate steps to ensure that the needs of
> consumers
> requiring additional protection, and who depend on 999/112 to a
> greater extent than
> the majority of the population, are addressed.
>
> What do you envisage to comply with para 3 then?

I don't: 2.17 Ofcom announced the withdrawal of the 2011 Guidance

Re: In the Mail today

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From: newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk (Scott)
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
Subject: Re: In the Mail today
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2024 15:19:58 +0000
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 by: Scott - Wed, 3 Jan 2024 15:19 UTC

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:57:49 +0000, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 03/01/2024 14:37, Scott wrote:
>> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:25:09 +0000, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 03/01/2024 13:39, Scott wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:14:54 +0100, Marco Moock
>>>> <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Am 03.01.2024 um 12:23:19 Uhr schrieb Scott:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 11:41:14 +0100, Marco Moock
>>>>>> <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am 03.01.2024 um 10:18:49 Uhr schrieb JMB99:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pensioners launch boycott of forced BT digital landline
>>>>>>>> switchover: Brits told DON'T cooperate with rollout and send
>>>>>>>> protest letters to telecoms providers instead amid fears millions
>>>>>>>> could be left in the dark in the event of outages
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can't the carriers simply cancel the old contracts with them if they
>>>>>>> don't provide the service anymore and the customers are unwilling to
>>>>>>> switch to the replacement product?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here in Germany it happened exactly that way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder what the universal service obligation and equality law say
>>>>>> about this, if the evidence suggests that pensioners are
>>>>>> disproportionately affected (age being a protected characteristic).
>>>
>>> There has to be a one hour emergency option available for people with
>>> poor indoor mobile coverage.
>>> https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/123118/guidance-emergency-access-power-cut.pdf
>>>
>> (Quote)
>> 2.13 In December 2011, Ofcom published revised guidelines on how
>> providers supplying voice
>> services over Fibre to the Premises (FTTP) networks could meet the
>> requirements of the
>> General Conditions (the 2011 Guidance).5 The 2011 Guidance consisted
>> of three principles
>> which applied to both new-build and ‘overlay’ FTTP deployments:
>> 1. A battery back-up should always be provided to support publicly
>> available telephone
>> services (PATS) provided over FTTP.
>> 2. The minimum duration of the back-up facility should be 1 hour.
>> 3. Providers should take appropriate steps to ensure that the needs of
>> consumers
>> requiring additional protection, and who depend on 999/112 to a
>> greater extent than
>> the majority of the population, are addressed.
>>
>> What do you envisage to comply with para 3 then?
>
> I don't: 2.17 Ofcom announced the withdrawal of the 2011 Guidance

Yes indeed - I misinterpreted 2.13. I should have paid more attention
to the word 'Background' directly above.

I can see why some people may see this as a degradation of the present
system.

Re: In the Mail today

<un40vd$38n11$1@dont-email.me>

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From: tnp@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
Subject: Re: In the Mail today
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2024 16:11:25 +0000
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Wed, 3 Jan 2024 16:11 UTC

On 03/01/2024 14:44, Scott wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:32:23 +0000, The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 03/01/2024 13:41, Scott wrote:
>>
>>> I heard of a dog going round the back of the TV set because he thought
>>> there was another dog inside.
>> The only time my cat took the slightest notice of it was a program
>> featuring small rodents in reeds. Water voles I think. He used to catch
>> those a lot
>
> Friend of mine said they could not allow the dog to watch any David
> Attenborough or other nature programme because if he saw a bear, he
> would have a massive dump there and then.

I don't watch David Attenborough programs because if I see David
Attenborogh the same thing happens

--
WOKE is an acronym... Without Originality, Knowledge or Education.

Re: In the Mail today

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From: usenet@andyburns.uk (Andy Burns)
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
Subject: Re: In the Mail today
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2024 16:17:26 +0000
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 by: Andy Burns - Wed, 3 Jan 2024 16:17 UTC

Nick Finnigan wrote:

> There has to be a one hour emergency option available for people with
> poor indoor mobile coverage.

poor according to who?
poor on which network(s)?

Re: In the Mail today

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From: mark@invalid.com (Mark Carver)
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
Subject: Re: In the Mail today
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2024 16:21:12 +0000
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 by: Mark Carver - Wed, 3 Jan 2024 16:21 UTC

On 03/01/2024 10:18, JMB99 wrote:
> Pensioners launch boycott of forced BT digital landline switchover:
> Brits told DON'T cooperate with rollout and send protest letters to
> telecoms providers instead amid fears millions could be left in the dark
> in the event of outages

This is becoming almost as tedious as the new TV Licence threads that
pop up every few weeks in the telly groups.

Re: In the Mail today

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From: newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk (Scott)
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
Subject: Re: In the Mail today
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2024 16:26:56 +0000
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 by: Scott - Wed, 3 Jan 2024 16:26 UTC

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 16:17:26 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:

>Nick Finnigan wrote:
>
>> There has to be a one hour emergency option available for people with
>> poor indoor mobile coverage.
>
>poor according to who?
>poor on which network(s)?

I thought emergency calls could be routed via any network.

Re: In the Mail today

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From: usenet.tweed@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
Subject: Re: In the Mail today
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2024 18:47:35 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Tweed - Wed, 3 Jan 2024 18:47 UTC

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:25:09 +0000, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> On 03/01/2024 13:39, Scott wrote:
>>> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:14:54 +0100, Marco Moock
>>> <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Am 03.01.2024 um 12:23:19 Uhr schrieb Scott:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 11:41:14 +0100, Marco Moock
>>>>> <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 03.01.2024 um 10:18:49 Uhr schrieb JMB99:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pensioners launch boycott of forced BT digital landline
>>>>>>> switchover: Brits told DON'T cooperate with rollout and send
>>>>>>> protest letters to telecoms providers instead amid fears millions
>>>>>>> could be left in the dark in the event of outages
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can't the carriers simply cancel the old contracts with them if they
>>>>>> don't provide the service anymore and the customers are unwilling to
>>>>>> switch to the replacement product?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here in Germany it happened exactly that way.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder what the universal service obligation and equality law say
>>>>> about this, if the evidence suggests that pensioners are
>>>>> disproportionately affected (age being a protected characteristic).
>>
>> There has to be a one hour emergency option available for people with
>> poor indoor mobile coverage.
>> https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/123118/guidance-emergency-access-power-cut.pdf
>>
> (Quote)
> 2.13 In December 2011, Ofcom published revised guidelines on how
> providers supplying voice
> services over Fibre to the Premises (FTTP) networks could meet the
> requirements of the
> General Conditions (the 2011 Guidance).5 The 2011 Guidance consisted
> of three principles
> which applied to both new-build and ‘overlay’ FTTP deployments:
> 1. A battery back-up should always be provided to support publicly
> available telephone
> services (PATS) provided over FTTP.
> 2. The minimum duration of the back-up facility should be 1 hour.
> 3. Providers should take appropriate steps to ensure that the needs of
> consumers
> requiring additional protection, and who depend on 999/112 to a
> greater extent than
> the majority of the population, are addressed.
>
> What do you envisage to comply with para 3 then?
>>>>
>>>> They are not excluded from the telephone service
>>>
>>> They will be if there is a power cut of more than one hour.
>

Re para 3: get a bigger battery. Fall alarm systems are battery backed and
therefore don’t run forever. You could devise a fall alarm that powered up
the modem and ONT as needed.

Re: In the Mail today

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From: newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk (Scott)
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
Subject: Re: In the Mail today
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2024 19:35:48 +0000
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 by: Scott - Wed, 3 Jan 2024 19:35 UTC

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 18:47:35 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

>Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:25:09 +0000, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 03/01/2024 13:39, Scott wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:14:54 +0100, Marco Moock
>>>> <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Am 03.01.2024 um 12:23:19 Uhr schrieb Scott:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 11:41:14 +0100, Marco Moock
>>>>>> <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am 03.01.2024 um 10:18:49 Uhr schrieb JMB99:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pensioners launch boycott of forced BT digital landline
>>>>>>>> switchover: Brits told DON'T cooperate with rollout and send
>>>>>>>> protest letters to telecoms providers instead amid fears millions
>>>>>>>> could be left in the dark in the event of outages
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can't the carriers simply cancel the old contracts with them if they
>>>>>>> don't provide the service anymore and the customers are unwilling to
>>>>>>> switch to the replacement product?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here in Germany it happened exactly that way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder what the universal service obligation and equality law say
>>>>>> about this, if the evidence suggests that pensioners are
>>>>>> disproportionately affected (age being a protected characteristic).
>>>
>>> There has to be a one hour emergency option available for people with
>>> poor indoor mobile coverage.
>>> https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/123118/guidance-emergency-access-power-cut.pdf
>>>
>> (Quote)
>> 2.13 In December 2011, Ofcom published revised guidelines on how
>> providers supplying voice
>> services over Fibre to the Premises (FTTP) networks could meet the
>> requirements of the
>> General Conditions (the 2011 Guidance).5 The 2011 Guidance consisted
>> of three principles
>> which applied to both new-build and ?overlay? FTTP deployments:
>> 1. A battery back-up should always be provided to support publicly
>> available telephone
>> services (PATS) provided over FTTP.
>> 2. The minimum duration of the back-up facility should be 1 hour.
>> 3. Providers should take appropriate steps to ensure that the needs of
>> consumers
>> requiring additional protection, and who depend on 999/112 to a
>> greater extent than
>> the majority of the population, are addressed.
>>
>> What do you envisage to comply with para 3 then?
>>>>>
>>>>> They are not excluded from the telephone service
>>>>
>>>> They will be if there is a power cut of more than one hour.
>>
>
>Re para 3: get a bigger battery. Fall alarm systems are battery backed and
>therefore don’t run forever. You could devise a fall alarm that powered up
>the modem and ONT as needed.
>
Re para 3: responsibility lies with the provider.

Re: In the Mail today

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From: usenet.tweed@gmail.com (Tweed)
Newsgroups: uk.telecom
Subject: Re: In the Mail today
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2024 19:41:44 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Tweed - Wed, 3 Jan 2024 19:41 UTC

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 18:47:35 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:25:09 +0000, Nick Finnigan <nix@genie.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 03/01/2024 13:39, Scott wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 14:14:54 +0100, Marco Moock
>>>>> <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 03.01.2024 um 12:23:19 Uhr schrieb Scott:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 11:41:14 +0100, Marco Moock
>>>>>>> <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Am 03.01.2024 um 10:18:49 Uhr schrieb JMB99:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Pensioners launch boycott of forced BT digital landline
>>>>>>>>> switchover: Brits told DON'T cooperate with rollout and send
>>>>>>>>> protest letters to telecoms providers instead amid fears millions
>>>>>>>>> could be left in the dark in the event of outages
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can't the carriers simply cancel the old contracts with them if they
>>>>>>>> don't provide the service anymore and the customers are unwilling to
>>>>>>>> switch to the replacement product?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here in Germany it happened exactly that way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wonder what the universal service obligation and equality law say
>>>>>>> about this, if the evidence suggests that pensioners are
>>>>>>> disproportionately affected (age being a protected characteristic).
>>>>
>>>> There has to be a one hour emergency option available for people with
>>>> poor indoor mobile coverage.
>>>> https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/123118/guidance-emergency-access-power-cut.pdf
>>>>
>>> (Quote)
>>> 2.13 In December 2011, Ofcom published revised guidelines on how
>>> providers supplying voice
>>> services over Fibre to the Premises (FTTP) networks could meet the
>>> requirements of the
>>> General Conditions (the 2011 Guidance).5 The 2011 Guidance consisted
>>> of three principles
>>> which applied to both new-build and ?overlay? FTTP deployments:
>>> 1. A battery back-up should always be provided to support publicly
>>> available telephone
>>> services (PATS) provided over FTTP.
>>> 2. The minimum duration of the back-up facility should be 1 hour.
>>> 3. Providers should take appropriate steps to ensure that the needs of
>>> consumers
>>> requiring additional protection, and who depend on 999/112 to a
>>> greater extent than
>>> the majority of the population, are addressed.
>>>
>>> What do you envisage to comply with para 3 then?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They are not excluded from the telephone service
>>>>>
>>>>> They will be if there is a power cut of more than one hour.
>>>
>>
>> Re para 3: get a bigger battery. Fall alarm systems are battery backed and
>> therefore don’t run forever. You could devise a fall alarm that powered up
>> the modem and ONT as needed.
>>
> Re para 3: responsibility lies with the provider.
>

Nope - take steps. That could simply mean telling the subscriber what they
need to purchase.

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