I'm on Catalina at present, the last one before they adopted the current look
to macOS. Now, at the moment I can test doing distribution of my apps from a
website, only to Monterey, and I really should be testing it up to Sonoma as
well. So:

1) Sonoma 14.2.1 is offered to my 2018 Mini, so I assume I can do the usual
trick of letting it download, and then quitting out right at the beginning
before it gets started, and then moving the installer out of the Applications
folder, so I can run it later?

2) Would I then be able to install Sonoma on an external SSD, boot from that,
and be able to get MigrationAssistant to migrate everything from the internal
SSD into the Sonoma install?

I don't want to just upgrade straight to Sonoma as I need to test that
VirtualBox VMs still work and a few other items, before then probably doing a
complete overwrite install onto this machine.

Cheers,

--
Tim

TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
> I'm on Catalina at present, the last one before they adopted the current look
> to macOS. Now, at the moment I can test doing distribution of my apps from a
> website, only to Monterey, and I really should be testing it up to Sonoma as
> well. So:
>
> 1) Sonoma 14.2.1 is offered to my 2018 Mini, so I assume I can do the usual
> trick of letting it download, and then quitting out right at the beginning
> before it gets started, and then moving the installer out of the Applications
> folder, so I can run it later?
>
> 2) Would I then be able to install Sonoma on an external SSD, boot from that,
> and be able to get MigrationAssistant to migrate everything from the internal
> SSD into the Sonoma install?
>
> I don't want to just upgrade straight to Sonoma as I need to test that
> VirtualBox VMs still work and a few other items, before then probably doing a
> complete overwrite install onto this machine.

Can you download it from the App Store? Alternatively …

You can download an installer from Mr Macintosh to your Downloads folder.

<https://mrmacintosh.com/macos-sonoma-full-installer-database-download-directly-from-apple/>

Or use the command line.

softwareupdate --fetch-full-installer --full-installer-version 14.2.1

This will place the installer app in your Applications folder but not
actually run it and so you can move it elsewhere when you want.

You should be able to install it to an external SSD. MA would work from a
TM backup but personally I’ve never tried it from an internal SSD but guess
it would.

--
Cheers, Alan

On 21 Dec 2023 at 06:42:25 GMT, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid>
wrote:

> TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>> I'm on Catalina at present, the last one before they adopted the current look
>> to macOS. Now, at the moment I can test doing distribution of my apps from a
>> website, only to Monterey, and I really should be testing it up to Sonoma as
>> well. So:

>> Or use the command line.
>
> softwareupdate --fetch-full-installer --full-installer-version 14.2.1

Yes, that was good - thanks.

--
Tim

On 20 Dec 2023 22:26:10 GMT, TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:

>I'm on Catalina at present, the last one before they adopted the current look
>to macOS. Now, at the moment I can test doing distribution of my apps from a
>website, only to Monterey, and I really should be testing it up to Sonoma as
>well. So:
>
>1) Sonoma 14.2.1 is offered to my 2018 Mini, so I assume I can do the usual
>trick of letting it download, and then quitting out right at the beginning
>before it gets started, and then moving the installer out of the Applications
>folder, so I can run it later?

That's a cool trick. Thanks, I'll remember it.

>
>2) Would I then be able to install Sonoma on an external SSD, boot from that,
>and be able to get MigrationAssistant to migrate everything from the internal
>SSD into the Sonoma install?
>
>I don't want to just upgrade straight to Sonoma as I need to test that
>VirtualBox VMs still work and a few other items, before then probably doing a
>complete overwrite install onto this machine.

I just did. So far it works fine.

J.
>
>Cheers,

On 24 Dec 2023 at 11:17:13 GMT, "John" <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:

> On 20 Dec 2023 22:26:10 GMT, TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> I'm on Catalina at present, the last one before they adopted the current look
>> to macOS. Now, at the moment I can test doing distribution of my apps from a
>> website, only to Monterey, and I really should be testing it up to Sonoma as
>> well. So:
>>
>> 1) Sonoma 14.2.1 is offered to my 2018 Mini, so I assume I can do the usual
>> trick of letting it download, and then quitting out right at the beginning
>> before it gets started, and then moving the installer out of the Applications
>> folder, so I can run it later?
>
> That's a cool trick. Thanks, I'll remember it.

In the end I used this:

softwareupdate --fetch-full-installer --full-installer-version 14.2.1

as offered upthread and it worked a treat.

>> 2) Would I then be able to install Sonoma on an external SSD, boot from that,
>> and be able to get MigrationAssistant to migrate everything from the internal
>> SSD into the Sonoma install?

The answer to this is yes, at a late stage in the install it offered to
migrate everything from the Catalina boot volume, so that was good.

>> I don't want to just upgrade straight to Sonoma as I need to test that
>> VirtualBox VMs still work and a few other items, before then probably doing a
>> complete overwrite install onto this machine.
>
> I just did. So far it works fine.

The trick for VirtualBox was to boot up Sonoma, then install VB 7.0.12.(some
digits). I ran that and the VMs started no trouble. Back in Catalina, the VMs
crashed when first started (under VB 6.1.x). The trick *there* was to just
start them again, whereupon they worked. They only work there because SIP is
disabled, so I need to verify the state of SIP in Sonoma.

Sonoma has a new cursor when you are typing, It seems to be two or three
pixels wide instead of one. After some poking about, this will disable the
"improvement", for now, at least.

sudo defaults write /Library/Preferences/FeatureFlags/Domain/UIKit.plist
redesigned_text_cursor -dict-add Enabled -bool NO

Then there are a few tweaks I did when SWBO's new M1 Mini arrived a couple of
years ago with Big Sur:

Big Sur Terminal Tweaks
=======================

1) Move Findow window icons below the title

defaults write com.apple.finder NSWindowSupportsAutomaticInlineTitle -bool
false

(Unfortunately this one only works in Big Sur and Monterey < 12.2. It doesn't
work in Sonoma. If anyone knows an equivalent for Sonoma, I'd appreciate
hearing about it)

2) Show path in Finder windows title bar

defaults write com.apple.finder _FXShowPosixPathInTitle -bool true

3) Restore sensible looking alerts to macOS

defaults write -g NSAlertMetricsGatheringEnabled -bool false

--
Tim

On 24 Dec 2023 13:08:43 GMT, TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:

<<snipped>>

>
>In the end I used this:
>
> softwareupdate --fetch-full-installer --full-installer-version 14.2.1
>
>as offered upthread and it worked a treat.

Me, I just went into the GUI, "System Preferences ---> Software
Updates" and chose Sonoma. It worked fine. It did take a while but it
worked.

>Sonoma has a new cursor when you are typing, It seems to be two or three
>pixels wide instead of one. After some poking about, this will disable the
>"improvement", for now, at least.

I haven't noticed that, yet. Maybe because my Sonoma inherited "huge
cursor" from my Ventura?

>
> sudo defaults write /Library/Preferences/FeatureFlags/Domain/UIKit.plist
>redesigned_text_cursor -dict-add Enabled -bool NO

Saved. Thanks.

>
>Then there are a few tweaks I did when SWBO's new M1 Mini arrived a couple of
>years ago with Big Sur:

"She Who Buys Objects"?

>
>Big Sur Terminal Tweaks
>=======================
>
>1) Move Findow window icons below the title
>
> defaults write com.apple.finder NSWindowSupportsAutomaticInlineTitle -bool
>false
>
>(Unfortunately this one only works in Big Sur and Monterey < 12.2. It doesn't
>work in Sonoma. If anyone knows an equivalent for Sonoma, I'd appreciate
>hearing about it)
>
>
>2) Show path in Finder windows title bar
>
> defaults write com.apple.finder _FXShowPosixPathInTitle -bool true

Hmm, could be useful, thanks.

>
>
>3) Restore sensible looking alerts to macOS
>
> defaults write -g NSAlertMetricsGatheringEnabled -bool false

This, too, thanks.

Merry Christmas and have a lovely New Year.

J.

On 24 Dec 2023 at 21:59:30 GMT, "John" <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:

> On 24 Dec 2023 13:08:43 GMT, TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:

>> In the end I used this:
>>
>> softwareupdate --fetch-full-installer --full-installer-version 14.2.1
>>
>> as offered upthread and it worked a treat.
>
> Me, I just went into the GUI, "System Preferences ---> Software
> Updates" and chose Sonoma. It worked fine. It did take a while but it
> worked.

Now I've verified that everything I can so far imagine might be problematic
under Sonoma, isn't, that is what I will eventually do too.

>> Sonoma has a new cursor when you are typing, It seems to be two or three
>> pixels wide instead of one. After some poking about, this will disable the
>> "improvement", for now, at least.
>
> I haven't noticed that, yet. Maybe because my Sonoma inherited "huge
> cursor" from my Ventura?

Neither of my screens is Retina so that may also be why.

>> sudo defaults write /Library/Preferences/FeatureFlags/Domain/UIKit.plist
>> redesigned_text_cursor -dict-add Enabled -bool NO
>
> Saved. Thanks.
>
>> Then there are a few tweaks I did when SWBO's new M1 Mini arrived a couple of
>> years ago with Big Sur:
>
> "She Who Buys Objects"?

Arf. Should be SWMBO.

>> Merry Christmas and have a lovely New Year.

Snap.

--
Tim

On 24 Dec 2023 22:26:23 GMT, TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:

>On 24 Dec 2023 at 21:59:30 GMT, "John" <Man@the.keyboard> wrote:
>
>> On 24 Dec 2023 13:08:43 GMT, TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>
>>> In the end I used this:
>>>
>>> softwareupdate --fetch-full-installer --full-installer-version 14.2.1
>>>
>>> as offered upthread and it worked a treat.
>>
>> Me, I just went into the GUI, "System Preferences ---> Software
>> Updates" and chose Sonoma. It worked fine. It did take a while but it
>> worked.
>
>Now I've verified that everything I can so far imagine might be problematic
>under Sonoma, isn't, that is what I will eventually do too.

Honestly, I was quite pleased and a little surprised at how easy it
was. I thought of doing all the saving to external drives and saving
to a new Volume on the internal SSD but I finally shrugged, muttered a
quiet "fuck it" and let Apple run the game.

They do good work.

>
>>> Sonoma has a new cursor when you are typing, It seems to be two or three
>>> pixels wide instead of one. After some poking about, this will disable the
>>> "improvement", for now, at least.
>>
>> I haven't noticed that, yet. Maybe because my Sonoma inherited "huge
>> cursor" from my Ventura?
>
>Neither of my screens is Retina so that may also be why.

I've no idea what mine is but it is 3000 pixels in one direction
according to "About This Mac". I haven't owned it long enough to look
it up on the Web and I didn't ask the vendor as I just took one look
at it and thought : "MINE!" But it is something like 3000 pixels one
way and loads the other.

That's better than HD.

On my lap, which is where laptops belong, the screen subtends a
visual angle larger than my 38" TV does on its table. That means
pictures should be rather better to look at on the Mac.

They were on my previous MBP. On this one, lots of things look really
nice and crisp.

>
>>> sudo defaults write /Library/Preferences/FeatureFlags/Domain/UIKit.plist
>>> redesigned_text_cursor -dict-add Enabled -bool NO
>>
>> Saved. Thanks.
>>
>>> Then there are a few tweaks I did when SWBO's new M1 Mini arrived a couple of
>>> years ago with Big Sur:
>>
>> "She Who Buys Objects"?
>
>Arf. Should be SWMBO.

"She Who May Be Observed"? :)

And "must be obeyed"?

>
>>> Merry Christmas and have a lovely New Year.
>
>Snap.

J.