I don’t think a passenger would have been so lucky.

<https://www.macrumors.com/2024/01/08/iphone-survives-fall-from-plane/>

--
Cheers, Alan

Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
> I don’t think a passenger would have been so lucky.
>
> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/01/08/iphone-survives-fall-from-plane/>

I've seen this a few times now. There's a video of one falling out of a
window from pleasure flight in Miami, I think.

The terminal velocity of a falling phone must be quite low.

On 09/01/2024 10:03, Chris wrote:
> Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>> I don’t think a passenger would have been so lucky.
>>
>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/01/08/iphone-survives-fall-from-plane/>
>
> I've seen this a few times now. There's a video of one falling out of a
> window from pleasure flight in Miami, I think.
>
> The terminal velocity of a falling phone must be quite low.
>

Around 125 mph IIRC, possibly a bit more as it is fairly streamlined.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> On 09/01/2024 10:03, Chris wrote:
> > Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
> >> I don't think a passenger would have been so lucky.
> >>
> >> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/01/08/iphone-survives-fall-from-plane/>
> >
> > I've seen this a few times now. There's a video of one falling out of a
> > window from pleasure flight in Miami, I think.
> >
> > The terminal velocity of a falling phone must be quite low.
> >
>
> Around 125 mph IIRC, possibly a bit more as it is fairly streamlined.

I have no idea how it will fall.
Flat side down, small side down, or spinning out of control?
It will make quite a difference.

Jan
(my guess: it will spin along the long axis,
like the wings on some of those childrens toys)

Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

> I don't think a passenger would have been so lucky.

There was a club of WWII veterans who had jumped without a parachute,
or who had a parachute that didn't open.

Guess they are all dead anyway, by now,

Jan

--
"Q: What do you do when your parachute doesn't open?"
A: You go back to the quartermaster and demand a replacement.

On 09/01/2024 11:49, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I don't think a passenger would have been so lucky.
>
> There was a club of WWII veterans who had jumped without a parachute,
> or who had a parachute that didn't open.
>
> Guess they are all dead anyway, by now,
>

Flt-Sgt Alkemaide is the best known. Rear gunner in a heavy bomber that
was on fire. Couldn't reach the parachute which was inside the blazing
fuselage. Jumped from 18,000 ft in the dead of winter and landed in a
pine forest, plunging through the trees slowed him up considerably and
he landed in a deep snowdrift

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> On 09/01/2024 11:49, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> I don't think a passenger would have been so lucky.
> >
> > There was a club of WWII veterans who had jumped without a parachute,
> > or who had a parachute that didn't open.
> >
> > Guess they are all dead anyway, by now,
> >
>
> Flt-Sgt Alkemaide is the best known. Rear gunner in a heavy bomber that
> was on fire. Couldn't reach the parachute which was inside the blazing
> fuselage. Jumped from 18,000 ft in the dead of winter and landed in a
> pine forest, plunging through the trees slowed him up considerably and
> he landed in a deep snowdrift

'Alkemade', no doubt. It is a village in Holland.
One of his ancestors must have emigrated to England,
(perhaps a 'Van Alkemade' that lost his 'Van')

Jan

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 09/01/2024 10:03, Chris wrote:
>> Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>> I don’t think a passenger would have been so lucky.
>>>
>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/01/08/iphone-survives-fall-from-plane/>
>>
>> I've seen this a few times now. There's a video of one falling out of a
>> window from pleasure flight in Miami, I think.
>>
>> The terminal velocity of a falling phone must be quite low.
>>
>
> Around 125 mph IIRC, possibly a bit more as it is fairly streamlined.

I'd be surprised it's that fast. Videos of dropped phones from low flying
aircraft show the phone spinning in "flight" which would slow it down

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > On 09/01/2024 10:03, Chris wrote:
> >> Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
> >>> I don't think a passenger would have been so lucky.
> >>>
> >>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/01/08/iphone-survives-fall-from-plane/>
> >>
> >> I've seen this a few times now. There's a video of one falling out of a
> >> window from pleasure flight in Miami, I think.
> >>
> >> The terminal velocity of a falling phone must be quite low.
> >>
> >
> > Around 125 mph IIRC, possibly a bit more as it is fairly streamlined.
>
> I'd be surprised it's that fast. Videos of dropped phones from low flying
> aircraft show the phone spinning in "flight" which would slow it down

Have we invented the pedstrian-killing iPhone myth yet?

Jan

On 09/01/2024 11:49, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I don't think a passenger would have been so lucky.
>
> There was a club of WWII veterans who had jumped without a parachute,
> or who had a parachute that didn't open.
>
> Guess they are all dead anyway, by now,

They're called The Caterpillar Club and membership is open to anyone
whose parachute didn't open as well so there are more recent members.

<https://www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/Caterpillar-Club/>

There's a book of the same or similar name that I remember reading a
long time ago. Quite remarkable stories. Alkemaide/Alkemade is one of
those in the book.

--
Bruce Horrocks
Surrey, England

On 09/01/2024 23:11, Bruce Horrocks wrote:
> On 09/01/2024 11:49, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't think a passenger would have been so lucky.
>>
>> There was a club of WWII veterans who had jumped without a parachute,
>> or who had a parachute that didn't open.
>>
>> Guess they are all dead anyway, by now,
>
> They're called The Caterpillar Club and membership is open to anyone
> whose parachute didn't open as well so there are more recent members.

No, it's for people who *have* used a parachute to save their lives.
Hence it is not open to sports parachutists.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Bruce Horrocks <07.013@scorecrow.com> wrote:

> On 09/01/2024 11:49, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >> I don't think a passenger would have been so lucky.
> >
> > There was a club of WWII veterans who had jumped without a parachute,
> > or who had a parachute that didn't open.
> >
> > Guess they are all dead anyway, by now,
>
> They're called The Caterpillar Club and membership is open to anyone
> whose parachute didn't open as well so there are more recent members.
>
> <https://www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/Caterpillar-Club/>

??? Your reference is to a club of people whose lives -were- saved
by having parachuted.
The outlook of your ref is rather provincial.
British and American pilots were not saved by having parachutes
during WWI, and the first case of an American saved by parachute
is from much later.

The reason for that was that their superior ' brass hats'
felt that Brits and Americans are natural born cowards,
who would jump out of their planes at the first sign of trouble,
rather than put up a fight, if the possibility were allowed.

The Germans had more trust in their own people,
and German pilots could jump to safety from a burning plane.
(at least in 1918, don't know about earlier)
The best known pilot who did so was Ernst Udet,
the highest scoring German ace after Von Richthofen. (aka The Red Baron)
He later became a Luftwaffe chief under Hitler.

> There's a book of the same or similar name that I remember reading a
> long time ago. Quite remarkable stories. Alkemaide/Alkemade is one of
> those in the book.

Only Alkemade is correct,

Jan

PS Wikip has a no doubt incomplete list
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highest_falls_survived_without_a_parachute>

On 10/01/2024 09:09, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> There's a book of the same or similar name that I remember reading a
>> long time ago. Quite remarkable stories. Alkemaide/Alkemade is one of
>> those in the book.
> Only Alkemade is correct,

Alkemade is correct if referring to the Dutch village, Alkemaide is
correct when referring to the person. In this case we are discussing the
person.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> On 10/01/2024 09:09, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >> There's a book of the same or similar name that I remember reading a
> >> long time ago. Quite remarkable stories. Alkemaide/Alkemade is one of
> >> those in the book.
> > Only Alkemade is correct,
>
> Alkemade is correct if referring to the Dutch village, Alkemaide is
> correct when referring to the person. In this case we are discussing the
> person.

Who is named Alkemade, and not Alkemaide,
according to all but one of the sources you can find about him,
If you disagree you should correct Wikipedia
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Alkemade>

If Wikip can't convince you, perhaps the RAF can?
<https://www.lincsonline.co.uk/_media/img/9LZJLJ2BPZ5PH4SZGI86.jpg>
(they named one of their buildings after him)

Jan

On 10/01/2024 09:09, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Bruce Horrocks <07.013@scorecrow.com> wrote:
>
>> On 09/01/2024 11:49, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>> Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't think a passenger would have been so lucky.
>>>
>>> There was a club of WWII veterans who had jumped without a parachute,
>>> or who had a parachute that didn't open.
>>>
>>> Guess they are all dead anyway, by now,
>>
>> They're called The Caterpillar Club and membership is open to anyone
>> whose parachute didn't open as well so there are more recent members.
>>
>> <https://www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/Caterpillar-Club/>
>
> ??? Your reference is to a club of people whose lives -were- saved
> by having parachuted.

Yes, quite right, sorry. My memory was skewed by reading about the
Alkamede case in the Caterpillar Club book. Presumably he wasn't granted
membership then!

> The outlook of your ref is rather provincial.

It was the first link that looked vaguely accurate and wasn't Wikipedia.
I see from some of the other pages that the site is best read with
tongue in cheek, or simply not read at all.

> British and American pilots were not saved by having parachutes
> during WWI, and the first case of an American saved by parachute
> is from much later.
>
> The reason for that was that their superior ' brass hats'
> felt that Brits and Americans are natural born cowards,
> who would jump out of their planes at the first sign of trouble,
> rather than put up a fight, if the possibility were allowed.
>
> The Germans had more trust in their own people,
> and German pilots could jump to safety from a burning plane.
> (at least in 1918, don't know about earlier)
> The best known pilot who did so was Ernst Udet,
> the highest scoring German ace after Von Richthofen. (aka The Red Baron)
> He later became a Luftwaffe chief under Hitler.
>
>> There's a book of the same or similar name that I remember reading a
>> long time ago. Quite remarkable stories. Alkemaide/Alkemade is one of
>> those in the book.
>
> Only Alkemade is correct,
>
> Jan
>
> PS Wikip has a no doubt incomplete list
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highest_falls_survived_without_a_parachute>
>

--
Bruce Horrocks
Surrey, England

Bruce Horrocks <07.013@scorecrow.com> wrote:

> On 10/01/2024 09:09, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > Bruce Horrocks <07.013@scorecrow.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 09/01/2024 11:49, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >>> Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I don't think a passenger would have been so lucky.
> >>>
> >>> There was a club of WWII veterans who had jumped without a parachute,
> >>> or who had a parachute that didn't open.
> >>>
> >>> Guess they are all dead anyway, by now,
> >>
> >> They're called The Caterpillar Club and membership is open to anyone
> >> whose parachute didn't open as well so there are more recent members.
> >>
> >> <https://www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/Caterpillar-Club/>
> >
> > ??? Your reference is to a club of people whose lives -were- saved
> > by having parachuted.
>
> Yes, quite right, sorry. My memory was skewed by reading about the
> Alkamede case in the Caterpillar Club book. Presumably he wasn't granted
> membership then!
>
> > The outlook of your ref is rather provincial.
>
> It was the first link that looked vaguely accurate and wasn't Wikipedia.
> I see from some of the other pages that the site is best read with
> tongue in cheek, or simply not read at all.
>
> > British and American pilots were not saved by having parachutes
> > during WWI, and the first case of an American saved by parachute
> > is from much later.
> >
> > The reason for that was that their superior ' brass hats'
> > felt that Brits and Americans are natural born cowards,
> > who would jump out of their planes at the first sign of trouble,
> > rather than put up a fight, if the possibility were allowed.
> >
> > The Germans had more trust in their own people,
> > and German pilots could jump to safety from a burning plane.
> > (at least in 1918, don't know about earlier)
> > The best known pilot who did so was Ernst Udet,
> > the highest scoring German ace after Von Richthofen. (aka The Red Baron)
> > He later became a Luftwaffe chief under Hitler.

I saw another site in the meantime where Eddie Rickenbacker
(the most famous American ace) is quoted as being furious
about combat pilots not getting issued parachutes.

Those British and American WWI pilots had seen German pilots
saving themselves with parachutes,
and they asked: 'why can't we be allowed to as well?'

BTW, I also found a ref that says that using parachutes was started
by observers in tethered observation ballons.
(hydrogen-filled of course)
These were great targets, and they made quite a fire.
When you start without airspeed, and without tails and wiring in the way
it is a lot easier,

Jan