“'Our long-term objective is to make printing a subscription' says HP CEO”

https://www.pcgamer.com/our-long-term-objective-is-to-make-printing-a-subscription-says-hp-ceo-gunning-for-2024s-worst-person-of-the-year-award/

--
Cheers … Mark

Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> wrote:
> “'Our long-term objective is to make printing a subscription' says HP CEO”
>
> https://www.pcgamer.com/our-long-term-objective-is-to-make-printing-a-subscription-says-hp-ceo-gunning-for-2024s-worst-person-of-the-year-award/

There’s nothing especially wrong with the concept. I bought a HP Envy about
2 ½ years ago, and joined the Instant Ink subscription service.

For the amount I was using it, it was an ideal option. The cost was ok, and
worked out better than buying individual cartridges (the Instant Ink ones
seem to be rammed with ink, and last ages).

But, they’ve used the ‘click bait’ method of trapping consumers. What they
have done is to increase the prices in huge jumps. The prices are not high,
but the increases are proportionally out of context with the real world.

I started off at £1.99/mph for 50 pages, with unused being rolled over each
month (up to 150).

Last year they bumped it to £2.99/mth. It caused a lot of angry responses,
including mine. However, after trying a set of traditional cartridges, I
rejoined the scheme, it was still cost effective.

Now, this month, they have bumped it again to £3.99/mth. Which has put it
into the not so good value band. It is actually no longer cheaper to use
than traditional cartridges.

My usage has dropped enough that I’ve reduced my subscription to the £1.49
option, for 10 pages/mth. It only offers 30 pages of rollover, and it wiped
120 pages of my accrued rollover. But, it might get a bit more use out of
these cartridges before I need to replace them. And the £1.49 is better
than forking out for new cartridges now (as they deactivate the Instant Ink
ones if you cancel the subscription, and you have to return them).

As the printer is getting older, it’s now my intention to cease the
subscription service, and I will switch to third party cartridges instead.

Then I will consider options if/when I need to replace the printer.

But, inflation jumps of 33% and 30% are unreasonable to me, and with HP
being the only business to take money from my account on Christmas Day
(not a big matter I know, it just added to the soured relationship that’s
all), I will certainly be thinking about whether I choose one of their
products again.

--
Andy H

On 25 Jan 2024 at 07:39:58 GMT, Andy H wrote:

> Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> wrote:
>> “'Our long-term objective is to make printing a subscription' says HP CEO”
>>
>> https://www.pcgamer.com/our-long-term-objective-is-to-make-printing-a-subscription-says-hp-ceo-gunning-for-2024s-worst-person-of-the-year-award/
>
> There’s nothing especially wrong with the concept. I bought a HP Envy about
> 2 ½ years ago, and joined the Instant Ink subscription service.
>
> For the amount I was using it, it was an ideal option. The cost was ok, and
> worked out better than buying individual cartridges (the Instant Ink ones
> seem to be rammed with ink, and last ages).
>
> But, they’ve used the ‘click bait’ method of trapping consumers. What they
> have done is to increase the prices in huge jumps. The prices are not high,
> but the increases are proportionally out of context with the real world.
>
> I started off at £1.99/mph for 50 pages, with unused being rolled over each
> month (up to 150).
>
> Last year they bumped it to £2.99/mth. It caused a lot of angry responses,
> including mine. However, after trying a set of traditional cartridges, I
> rejoined the scheme, it was still cost effective.
>
> Now, this month, they have bumped it again to £3.99/mth. Which has put it
> into the not so good value band. It is actually no longer cheaper to use
> than traditional cartridges.
>
> My usage has dropped enough that I’ve reduced my subscription to the £1.49
> option, for 10 pages/mth. It only offers 30 pages of rollover, and it wiped
> 120 pages of my accrued rollover. But, it might get a bit more use out of
> these cartridges before I need to replace them. And the £1.49 is better
> than forking out for new cartridges now (as they deactivate the Instant Ink
> ones if you cancel the subscription, and you have to return them).
>
> As the printer is getting older, it’s now my intention to cease the
> subscription service, and I will switch to third party cartridges instead.
>
> Then I will consider options if/when I need to replace the printer.
>
> But, inflation jumps of 33% and 30% are unreasonable to me, and with HP
> being the only business to take money from my account on Christmas Day
> (not a big matter I know, it just added to the soured relationship that’s
> all), I will certainly be thinking about whether I choose one of their
> products again.

I'd look at a s/h laser printer if it meets your needs. I bought one for £25
with newish 3rd party HP toner 5 years' ago - similar page rate as you and
still going strong.

And excuse the pedantry - I make that 50% and 30% increases; 100% overall.
--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

On 2024-01-25 07:39:58 +0000, Andy H said:

> Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> wrote:
>> “'Our long-term objective is to make printing a subscription' says HP CEO”
>>
>> https://www.pcgamer.com/our-long-term-objective-is-to-make-printing-a-subscription-says-hp-ceo-gunning-for-2024s-worst-person-of-the-year-award/
>>
>
> There’s nothing especially wrong with the concept. I bought a HP Envy about
> 2 ½ years ago, and joined the Instant Ink subscription service.
>
> For the amount I was using it, it was an ideal option. The cost was ok, and
> worked out better than buying individual cartridges (the Instant Ink ones
> seem to be rammed with ink, and last ages).
>
> But, they’ve used the ‘click bait’ method of trapping consumers. What they
> have done is to increase the prices in huge jumps. The prices are not high,
> but the increases are proportionally out of context with the real world.
>
> I started off at £1.99/mph for 50 pages, with unused being rolled over each
> month (up to 150).
>
> Last year they bumped it to £2.99/mth. It caused a lot of angry responses,
> including mine. However, after trying a set of traditional cartridges, I
> rejoined the scheme, it was still cost effective.
>
> Now, this month, they have bumped it again to £3.99/mth. Which has put it
> into the not so good value band. It is actually no longer cheaper to use
> than traditional cartridges.
>
> My usage has dropped enough that I’ve reduced my subscription to the £1.49
> option, for 10 pages/mth. It only offers 30 pages of rollover, and it wiped
> 120 pages of my accrued rollover. But, it might get a bit more use out of
> these cartridges before I need to replace them. And the £1.49 is better
> than forking out for new cartridges now (as they deactivate the Instant Ink
> ones if you cancel the subscription, and you have to return them).
>
> As the printer is getting older, it’s now my intention to cease the
> subscription service, and I will switch to third party cartridges instead.
>
> Then I will consider options if/when I need to replace the printer.
>
> But, inflation jumps of 33% and 30% are unreasonable to me, and with HP
> being the only business to take money from my account on Christmas Day
> (not a big matter I know, it just added to the soured relationship that’s
> all), I will certainly be thinking about whether I choose one of their
> products again.

I think this is quite distopian: "This is something we announced a few
years ago that our goal was to reduce the number of what we call
unprofitable customers. Because every time a customer buys a printer,
it's an investment for us. We're investing in that customer, and if
this customer doesn’t print enough or doesn’t use our supplies, it’s a
bad investment,"

If they want to positon themselves as a corporate/high usage only
supplier, than fair enough. I - and many people I know - only print
once or twice a month. Fuck HP.

--
Cheers ... Mark

Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> wrote:
> If they want to positon themselves as a corporate/high usage only
> supplier, than fair enough. I - and many people I know - only print
> once or twice a month. Fuck HP.

As a current owner of an HP Inkjet, +1 from me. My next printer will
definitely NOT be an HP model. And as for their laptops …..

--
Cheers, Alan

Am 25.01.24 um 17:33 schrieb Alan B:
> Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> wrote:
>> If they want to positon themselves as a corporate/high usage only
>> supplier, than fair enough. I - and many people I know - only print
>> once or twice a month. Fuck HP.
>
> As a current owner of an HP Inkjet, +1 from me. My next printer will
> definitely NOT be an HP model. And as for their laptops …..

Isn't this a Mac-group? So far I'm happy with HP-printers. They last not
only years rather decades.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

On 25/01/2024 08:58, RJH wrote:
> On 25 Jan 2024 at 07:39:58 GMT, Andy H wrote:

>> But, inflation jumps of 33% and 30% are unreasonable to me, and with HP
>> being the only business to take money from my account on Christmas Day
>> (not a big matter I know, it just added to the soured relationship that’s
>> all), I will certainly be thinking about whether I choose one of their
>> products again.
>
> I'd look at a s/h laser printer if it meets your needs. I bought one for £25
> with newish 3rd party HP toner 5 years' ago - similar page rate as you and
> still going strong.

A laser doesn't really fit in with my needs. I occasionally print a
photo, sometimes a colour document.

Besides, I already own the printer, the printer functions just fine, the
only cost is buying cartridges. And to be fair, the cartridges it uses
have never even needed a single head clean. Doesn't seem to make sense
to ditch a fully functioning printer just to buy another.

> And excuse the pedantry - I make that 50% and 30% increases; 100% overall.

Whoops, indeed. Although isn't it actually 50% and 33%? - give or take
for the odd penny :-).

--
Andy H

On 25/01/2024 16:33, Alan B wrote:
> Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> wrote:
>> If they want to positon themselves as a corporate/high usage only
>> supplier, than fair enough. I - and many people I know - only print
>> once or twice a month. Fuck HP.
>
> As a current owner of an HP Inkjet, +1 from me. My next printer will
> definitely NOT be an HP model. And as for their laptops …..

That's my gut reaction too. Although we don't have any compulsion to go
with the Instant Ink subscription, it is a choice still (at the moment).

Trouble is, these seem to be the best cartridges I've ever used as far
as low usage blocking goes (i.e. they haven't yet).

It almost makes me want to go back to a Star LC24/200 ;-).

--
Andy H

Am 25.01.24 um 18:37 schrieb Jörg Lorenz:
> Am 25.01.24 um 17:33 schrieb Alan B:
>> Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> If they want to positon themselves as a corporate/high usage only
>>> supplier, than fair enough. I - and many people I know - only print
>>> once or twice a month. Fuck HP.
>>
>> As a current owner of an HP Inkjet, +1 from me. My next printer will
>> definitely NOT be an HP model. And as for their laptops …..
>
> Isn't this a Mac-group? So far I'm happy with HP-printers. They last not
> only years rather decades.

BTW: They also work perfectly together with Linux distributions.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 25.01.24 um 17:33 schrieb Alan B:
>> Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> If they want to positon themselves as a corporate/high usage only
>>> supplier, than fair enough. I - and many people I know - only print
>>> once or twice a month. Fuck HP.
>>
>> As a current owner of an HP Inkjet, +1 from me. My next printer will
>> definitely NOT be an HP model. And as for their laptops …..
>
> Isn't this a Mac-group? So far I'm happy with HP-printers. They last not
> only years rather decades.

Several that I know of have died within weeks of the warranty expiring.
So I have learnt not to buy them.

--
Graham J

Am 25.01.24 um 19:10 schrieb Graham J:
> Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 25.01.24 um 17:33 schrieb Alan B:
>>> Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> If they want to positon themselves as a corporate/high usage only
>>>> supplier, than fair enough. I - and many people I know - only print
>>>> once or twice a month. Fuck HP.
>>>
>>> As a current owner of an HP Inkjet, +1 from me. My next printer will
>>> definitely NOT be an HP model. And as for their laptops …..
>>
>> Isn't this a Mac-group? So far I'm happy with HP-printers. They last not
>> only years rather decades.
>
> Several that I know of have died within weeks of the warranty expiring.
> So I have learnt not to buy them.

I use them since the turn of the century: I have only the third one so
far. The first last about 8 years, the second - a color laser - 11 years
and the current is in its fourth year.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

On Jan 25, 2024, Andy H wrote
(in article <uot38e$27k75$1@dont-email.me>):

> Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> wrote:
> > “'Our long-term objective is to make printing a subscription' says HP
> > CEO”
> >
> > https://www.pcgamer.com/our-long-term-objective-is-to-make-printing-a-subscr
> > iption-says-hp-ceo-gunning-for-2024s-worst-person-of-the-year-award/
>
> There’s nothing especially wrong with the concept. I bought a HP Envy about
> 2 ½ years ago, and joined the Instant Ink subscription service.
>
> For the amount I was using it, it was an ideal option. The cost was ok, and
> worked out better than buying individual cartridges (the Instant Ink ones
> seem to be rammed with ink, and last ages).
>
> But, they’ve used the ‘click bait’ method of trapping consumers. What
> they
> have done is to increase the prices in huge jumps. The prices are not high,
> but the increases are proportionally out of context with the real world.
>
> I started off at £1.99/mph for 50 pages, with unused being rolled over each
> month (up to 150).
>
> Last year they bumped it to £2.99/mth. It caused a lot of angry responses,
> including mine. However, after trying a set of traditional cartridges, I
> rejoined the scheme, it was still cost effective.
>
> Now, this month, they have bumped it again to £3.99/mth. Which has put it
> into the not so good value band. It is actually no longer cheaper to use
> than traditional cartridges.
>
> My usage has dropped enough that I’ve reduced my subscription to the £1.49
> option, for 10 pages/mth. It only offers 30 pages of rollover, and it wiped
> 120 pages of my accrued rollover. But, it might get a bit more use out of
> these cartridges before I need to replace them. And the £1.49 is better
> than forking out for new cartridges now (as they deactivate the Instant Ink
> ones if you cancel the subscription, and you have to return them).
>
> As the printer is getting older, it’s now my intention to cease the
> subscription service, and I will switch to third party cartridges instead.
>
> Then I will consider options if/when I need to replace the printer.
>
> But, inflation jumps of 33% and 30% are unreasonable to me, and with HP
> being the only business to take money from my account on Christmas Day
> (not a big matter I know, it just added to the soured relationship that’s
> all), I will certainly be thinking about whether I choose one of their
> products again.

My aged Epson inkjet still has some life in it, but the end is nigh. I have a
Brother greyscale laser which has given good service. When the Epson finally
dies it will probably be replaced by a Brother colour laser. At the office I
run several of the big floor-standing copier things, some elderly HP lasersa
from the days when HP was good, and a flock of Brother lasers. I doubt that
the office will buy anything HP ever again. I know that I won’t be buying
HP anything for personal use. Brother seems to be the way to go. HP can kiss
my Irish ass.

On 25/01/2024 18:10, Graham J wrote:
> Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 25.01.24 um 17:33 schrieb Alan B:
>>> Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> If they want to positon themselves as a corporate/high usage only
>>>> supplier, than fair enough. I - and many people I know - only print
>>>> once or twice a month. Fuck HP.
>>>
>>> As a current owner of an HP Inkjet, +1 from me. My next printer will
>>> definitely NOT be an HP model. And as for their laptops …..
>>
>> Isn't this a Mac-group? So far I'm happy with HP-printers. They last
>> not only years rather decades.
>
> Several that I know of have died within weeks of the warranty expiring.
> So I have learnt not to buy them.

I did have a previous HP printer, but one that had the separate colours
cartridges and two (replaceable) heads. The heads failed just out of
warranty, and the replacement cost was higher than a new printer.

Similarly with a couple of Canons I had before that.

The Brother I had was a good printer, until I discovered about the waste
ink container getting full, which was a stupidly expensive thing to get
sorted (the hacks for getting around it didn't work).

From that one I now have the HP Envy (which was actually 3 1/2 years
ago), one the with the two cartridges with heads built into them. My
thought was that being a light user, it's actually relatively cheap to
get fresh heads when then the cartridges are replaced.

Ironically, they've never blocked up at all, despite this one being the
lightest use I've ever had.

For sure, and old HP Laserjet I had years ago was a great machine, but
too much of a monster for my needs now, and laser just doesn't work out
well for my varied needs, when I do need to print something.

--
Andy H

On 26 Jan 2024 at 04:50:52 GMT, "Andy Hewitt" <thewildrover@icloud.com> wrote:

> On 25/01/2024 18:10, Graham J wrote:
>> Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Am 25.01.24 um 17:33 schrieb Alan B:
>>>> Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> If they want to positon themselves as a corporate/high usage only
>>>>> supplier, than fair enough. I - and many people I know - only print
>>>>> once or twice a month. Fuck HP.
>>>>
>>>> As a current owner of an HP Inkjet, +1 from me. My next printer will
>>>> definitely NOT be an HP model. And as for their laptops …..
>>>
>>> Isn't this a Mac-group? So far I'm happy with HP-printers. They last
>>> not only years rather decades.
>>
>> Several that I know of have died within weeks of the warranty expiring.
>> So I have learnt not to buy them.
>
> I did have a previous HP printer, but one that had the separate colours
> cartridges and two (replaceable) heads. The heads failed just out of
> warranty, and the replacement cost was higher than a new printer.

We've had a Canon G6000 for just over three years. It's one of those where you
have to fill up ink tanks inside the printer, from bottles. I filled it when
new, and have yet to add ink to it, although the black ink tank is now below
1/4 full. It cost £300 or so, but not having to faff with ink carts or
remember to order more, more than makes up for the extra cost.

--
Tim

Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
> Am 25.01.24 um 19:10 schrieb Graham J:
>> Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Am 25.01.24 um 17:33 schrieb Alan B:
>>>> Mark <captain.black@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> If they want to positon themselves as a corporate/high usage only
>>>>> supplier, than fair enough. I - and many people I know - only print
>>>>> once or twice a month. Fuck HP.
>>>>
>>>> As a current owner of an HP Inkjet, +1 from me. My next printer will
>>>> definitely NOT be an HP model. And as for their laptops …..
>>>
>>> Isn't this a Mac-group? So far I'm happy with HP-printers. They last not
>>> only years rather decades.
>>
>> Several that I know of have died within weeks of the warranty expiring.
>> So I have learnt not to buy them.
>
> I use them since the turn of the century: I have only the third one so
> far. The first last about 8 years, the second - a color laser - 11 years
> and the current is in its fourth year.

That's been my experience also since the mid-90s. I briefly had a canon
(during covid) which failed after two and a bit years. Am on my fourth
printer in that time incl. the canon so my average lifetime per HP (inkjet)
printer is nearly a decade.

Actually, the first one didn't fail, I needed a scanner so replaced it with
an all-in-one.

WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
> My aged Epson inkjet still has some life in it, but the end is nigh. I have a
> Brother greyscale laser which has given good service. When the Epson finally
> dies it will probably be replaced by a Brother colour laser. At the office I
> run several of the big floor-standing copier things, some elderly HP lasersa
> from the days when HP was good, and a flock of Brother lasers. I doubt that
> the office will buy anything HP ever again. I know that I won’t be buying
> HP anything for personal use. Brother seems to be the way to go. HP can kiss
> my Irish ass.

Brother laser is the way to go. They were late to the toner chipping
shenanigans, with the result that mine (HL-L8260CDW from 2018) has dirt
cheap aftermarket toners (£30 for a full 4 colour set: 4k or 6.5k pages,
allegedly). The newer ones have introduced chips, but there are still ways
to reset them so I think there are still cheap aftermarket carts.

Mine's done 20k colour pages (often photos) on perhaps £120-150 worth of toner.
Actually I think the paper has cost more than the toner.

On inkjets, look for a way to make a printer 'chipless' (there are some
firmware hacks for Epsons) and then you can use refills or continuous ink
systems. Have an Epson with refillable cartridges, bought 1 litre of ink
for £100 a few years ago, have got through 500ml so far. The Epson carts
are about £12 for 5ml of ink, so that would have cost £1200 instead of £50.

Theo