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aus+uk / uk.comp.sys.mac / Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?

SubjectAuthor
* Thunderbolt to external hard drive?RJH
+* Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?Andy Hewitt
|`* Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?Theo
| `- Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?Andy Hewitt
+* Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?Bruce Horrocks
|+* Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?Theo
||`- Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?Bruce Horrocks
|`* Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?David Sankey
| `- Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?RJH
+- Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?Henry
`- Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?Paul

1
Thunderbolt to external hard drive?

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From: patchmoney@gmx.com (RJH)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2024 15:39:04 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: RJH - Wed, 31 Jan 2024 15:39 UTC

I've a mid-2011 Mac Mini with a Thunderbolt 1 socket, and I need to transfer
4TB from the Mini to a USB 3 external drive. It'll likely take some days over
the Mini's USB 2 ports.

Is there such a thing as a Thunderbolt 1 to micro-B USB 3 external drive
cable? Or even a Firewire 800 to USB? Google suggests not . . .

And if there is, would it appreciably reduce the time of the backup?
--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?

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From: thewildrover@icloud.com (Andy Hewitt)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2024 16:23:02 +0000
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 by: Andy Hewitt - Wed, 31 Jan 2024 16:23 UTC

On 31/01/2024 15:39, RJH wrote:
> I've a mid-2011 Mac Mini with a Thunderbolt 1 socket, and I need to transfer
> 4TB from the Mini to a USB 3 external drive. It'll likely take some days over
> the Mini's USB 2 ports.
>
> Is there such a thing as a Thunderbolt 1 to micro-B USB 3 external drive
> cable? Or even a Firewire 800 to USB? Google suggests not . . .
>
> And if there is, would it appreciably reduce the time of the backup?

It's a tricky one.There are some Belkin Thunderbolt hubs about, and some
on OWC Hubbs too, but they can get really expensive.

I tried for ages to get things connected to my old iMac with TB1, but
the costs became prohibitive. FW parts are becoming quite rare too.

You can certainly do FW800 to TB1 (I sold my adapters last year). Might
be easier to try and find an old FW400/800 drive enclosure (becoming a
bit like hens teeth now though).

In the meantime, you could have just completed the copy anyway.

--
Andy H

Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?

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From: theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?
Date: 31 Jan 2024 17:07:11 +0000 (GMT)
Organization: University of Cambridge, England
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 by: Theo - Wed, 31 Jan 2024 17:07 UTC

Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> wrote:
> On 31/01/2024 15:39, RJH wrote:
> > I've a mid-2011 Mac Mini with a Thunderbolt 1 socket, and I need to transfer
> > 4TB from the Mini to a USB 3 external drive. It'll likely take some days over
> > the Mini's USB 2 ports.
> >
> > Is there such a thing as a Thunderbolt 1 to micro-B USB 3 external drive
> > cable? Or even a Firewire 800 to USB? Google suggests not . . .
> >
> > And if there is, would it appreciably reduce the time of the backup?
>
> It's a tricky one.There are some Belkin Thunderbolt hubs about, and some
> on OWC Hubbs too, but they can get really expensive.

I'd look on ebay for a Thunderbolt 1 or 2 dock with a USB 3 port on it. As
the Macs they connect to are old, the prices have probably dropped. Being
TB 1/2 means you don't need the Apple TB2<->3 adapter, which was £50 last
time I checked.

> I tried for ages to get things connected to my old iMac with TB1, but
> the costs became prohibitive. FW parts are becoming quite rare too.
>
> You can certainly do FW800 to TB1 (I sold my adapters last year). Might
> be easier to try and find an old FW400/800 drive enclosure (becoming a
> bit like hens teeth now though).

I don't think that would get much better speed - it's only 800Mbps rather than
480Mbps. TB1 is 10Gbps and the drive is probably SATA3 which is 6Gbps.

You could just disassemble the Mini and pull the drive. It's just a regular
SATA disc, stick it in a USB 3 enclosure. Of course that's tricky without
another machine to plug it into. Or plug the USB into another machine and
use ethernet (1Gbps).

If it's a HDD it's probably limited to ballpark 100MBps (800Mbps) anyway.

> In the meantime, you could have just completed the copy anyway.

There is that. Takes forever but forever is still quicker than waiting for
a delivery of the bits to make it faster.

Theo

Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?

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From: thewildrover@icloud.com (Andy Hewitt)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2024 18:03:43 +0000
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 by: Andy Hewitt - Wed, 31 Jan 2024 18:03 UTC

On 31/01/2024 17:07, Theo wrote:
> Andy Hewitt <thewildrover@icloud.com> wrote:
>> On 31/01/2024 15:39, RJH wrote:
>>> I've a mid-2011 Mac Mini with a Thunderbolt 1 socket, and I need to transfer
>>> 4TB from the Mini to a USB 3 external drive. It'll likely take some days over
>>> the Mini's USB 2 ports.
>>>
>>> Is there such a thing as a Thunderbolt 1 to micro-B USB 3 external drive
>>> cable? Or even a Firewire 800 to USB? Google suggests not . . .
>>>
>>> And if there is, would it appreciably reduce the time of the backup?
>>
>> It's a tricky one.There are some Belkin Thunderbolt hubs about, and some
>> on OWC Hubbs too, but they can get really expensive.
>
> I'd look on ebay for a Thunderbolt 1 or 2 dock with a USB 3 port on it. As
> the Macs they connect to are old, the prices have probably dropped. Being
> TB 1/2 means you don't need the Apple TB2<->3 adapter, which was £50 last
> time I checked.

I did have a Belkin Hub, which you can get for around £50. Sadly it
doesn't work with the 2-3 adapter, as I tried it on the MacBook Pro I
got last year.

>> I tried for ages to get things connected to my old iMac with TB1, but
>> the costs became prohibitive. FW parts are becoming quite rare too.
>>
>> You can certainly do FW800 to TB1 (I sold my adapters last year). Might
>> be easier to try and find an old FW400/800 drive enclosure (becoming a
>> bit like hens teeth now though).
>
> I don't think that would get much better speed - it's only 800Mbps rather than
> 480Mbps. TB1 is 10Gbps and the drive is probably SATA3 which is 6Gbps.

No, I used FW400/800 for years, and tried it against USB2 and 3. FW is
significantly better, even at 400 it's OK. The benchmarks don't really
reveal the real world experience.

FW was always far more stable too. If there was a way back...

> You could just disassemble the Mini and pull the drive. It's just a regular
> SATA disc, stick it in a USB 3 enclosure. Of course that's tricky without
> another machine to plug it into. Or plug the USB into another machine and
> use ethernet (1Gbps).

Or bung the two drives into one of those plug-in docks that can copy at
the touch of a button (I have one, but haven't tried it on Mac discs).

> If it's a HDD it's probably limited to ballpark 100MBps (800Mbps) anyway.
>
>> In the meantime, you could have just completed the copy anyway.
>
> There is that. Takes forever but forever is still quicker than waiting for
> a delivery of the bits to make it faster.

Indeed.

--
Andy H

Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?

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From: 07.013@scorecrow.com (Bruce Horrocks)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2024 01:13:44 +0000
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 by: Bruce Horrocks - Thu, 1 Feb 2024 01:13 UTC

On 31/01/2024 15:39, RJH wrote:
> I've a mid-2011 Mac Mini with a Thunderbolt 1 socket, and I need to transfer
> 4TB from the Mini to a USB 3 external drive. It'll likely take some days over
> the Mini's USB 2 ports.
>
> Is there such a thing as a Thunderbolt 1 to micro-B USB 3 external drive
> cable? Or even a Firewire 800 to USB? Google suggests not . . .
>
> And if there is, would it appreciably reduce the time of the backup?

To go the adaptor route you need:

1) Apple Thunderbolt 2 (which is backwards compatible with the
Thunderbolt 1 port on the Mac Mini) to Thunderbolt 3 / USB-C adaptor.

<https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MMEL2ZM/A/thunderbolt-3-usb-c-to-thunderbolt-2-adapter>

2) Generic USB-C to USB-3 adaptor
e.g.
<https://www.amazon.co.uk/Amazon-Basics-Charging-10Gbps-High-Speed/dp/B01GGKYIHS>

If you have to buy these and get them delivered then just set the
transfer going now... :-)

--
Bruce Horrocks
Surrey, England

Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?

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From: theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?
Date: 01 Feb 2024 11:44:54 +0000 (GMT)
Organization: University of Cambridge, England
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 by: Theo - Thu, 1 Feb 2024 11:44 UTC

Bruce Horrocks <07.013@scorecrow.com> wrote:
> On 31/01/2024 15:39, RJH wrote:
> > I've a mid-2011 Mac Mini with a Thunderbolt 1 socket, and I need to transfer
> > 4TB from the Mini to a USB 3 external drive. It'll likely take some days over
> > the Mini's USB 2 ports.
> >
> > Is there such a thing as a Thunderbolt 1 to micro-B USB 3 external drive
> > cable? Or even a Firewire 800 to USB? Google suggests not . . .
> >
> > And if there is, would it appreciably reduce the time of the backup?
>
> To go the adaptor route you need:
>
> 1) Apple Thunderbolt 2 (which is backwards compatible with the
> Thunderbolt 1 port on the Mac Mini) to Thunderbolt 3 / USB-C adaptor.
>
> <https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MMEL2ZM/A/thunderbolt-3-usb-c-to-thunderbolt-2-adapter>
>
>
> 2) Generic USB-C to USB-3 adaptor
> e.g.
> <https://www.amazon.co.uk/Amazon-Basics-Charging-10Gbps-High-Speed/dp/B01GGKYIHS>
>
>
> If you have to buy these and get them delivered then just set the
> transfer going now... :-)

That won't work, since Thunderbolt 2 doesn't carry USB. On TBT2 to get USB
you first need a Thunderbolt bridge chip to strip off the Thunderbolt
encapsulation to get at the PCIe, then use a PCIe USB host controller.
These functions are inside a Thunderbolt 2 dock with USB ports.

Just doing the adaptation of the port as you suggest will result in
Thunderbolt signalling over USB-C, which only a Thunderbolt drive would
understand. Thunderbolt drives are mostly SSDs and are expensive.

Theo

Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?

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From: David.Sankey@stfc.ac.uk (David Sankey)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?
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 by: David Sankey - Thu, 1 Feb 2024 12:22 UTC

On 01/02/2024 01:13, Bruce Horrocks wrote:
> On 31/01/2024 15:39, RJH wrote:
>> I've a mid-2011 Mac Mini with a Thunderbolt 1 socket, and I need to
>> transfer
>> 4TB from the Mini to a USB 3 external drive. It'll likely take some
>> days over
>> the Mini's USB 2 ports.
>>
>> Is there such a thing as a Thunderbolt 1 to micro-B USB 3 external drive
>> cable? Or even a Firewire 800 to USB? Google suggests not . . .
>>
>> And if there is, would it appreciably reduce the time of the backup?
>
> To go the adaptor route you need:
>
> 1) Apple Thunderbolt 2 (which is backwards compatible with the
> Thunderbolt 1 port on the Mac Mini) to Thunderbolt 3 / USB-C adaptor.
>
> <https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MMEL2ZM/A/thunderbolt-3-usb-c-to-thunderbolt-2-adapter>
>
>
> 2) Generic USB-C to USB-3 adaptor
> e.g.
> <https://www.amazon.co.uk/Amazon-Basics-Charging-10Gbps-High-Speed/dp/B01GGKYIHS>
>
>
> If you have to buy these and get them delivered then just set the
> transfer going now... :-)

This will not work.

USB-C is not Thunderbolt, rather Thunderbolt is using the same connector.

Cable 1 (and a Thunderbolt 1 cable to plug into it...) will allow you to
connect a modern Thunderbolt dock (again *not* a USB-C dock) to which
you can connect the USB 3 drive, but these start at around £100.

See
<https://www.pcworld.com/article/393714/best-thunderbolt-docks-for-a-laptop-pc.html>

So I strongly suggest setting the transfer going now!

D

Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?

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From: patchmoney@gmx.com (RJH)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2024 12:34:12 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: RJH - Thu, 1 Feb 2024 12:34 UTC

On 1 Feb 2024 at 12:22:48 GMT, David Sankey wrote:

> On 01/02/2024 01:13, Bruce Horrocks wrote:
>> On 31/01/2024 15:39, RJH wrote:
>>> I've a mid-2011 Mac Mini with a Thunderbolt 1 socket, and I need to
>>> transfer
>>> 4TB from the Mini to a USB 3 external drive. It'll likely take some
>>> days over
>>> the Mini's USB 2 ports.
>>>
>>> Is there such a thing as a Thunderbolt 1 to micro-B USB 3 external drive
>>> cable? Or even a Firewire 800 to USB? Google suggests not . . .
>>>
>>> And if there is, would it appreciably reduce the time of the backup?
>>
>> To go the adaptor route you need:
>>
>> 1) Apple Thunderbolt 2 (which is backwards compatible with the
>> Thunderbolt 1 port on the Mac Mini) to Thunderbolt 3 / USB-C adaptor.
>>
>> <https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MMEL2ZM/A/thunderbolt-3-usb-c-to-thunderbolt-2-adapter>
>>
>>
>> 2) Generic USB-C to USB-3 adaptor
>> e.g.
>> <https://www.amazon.co.uk/Amazon-Basics-Charging-10Gbps-High-Speed/dp/B01GGKYIHS>
>>
>>
>> If you have to buy these and get them delivered then just set the
>> transfer going now... :-)
>
> This will not work.
>
> USB-C is not Thunderbolt, rather Thunderbolt is using the same connector.
>
> Cable 1 (and a Thunderbolt 1 cable to plug into it...) will allow you to
> connect a modern Thunderbolt dock (again *not* a USB-C dock) to which
> you can connect the USB 3 drive, but these start at around £100.
>
> See
> <https://www.pcworld.com/article/393714/best-thunderbolt-docks-for-a-laptop-pc.html>
>
> So I strongly suggest setting the transfer going now!
>
> D

Thanks David - and everyone else. What a palaver! Don't think I'll be using
the the FW or Thenuderbolt ports then . . .

I did set it going last night over USB - but the tranfer failed with an error
ending 006. Cable looked OK but changed it just in case - been going through
today, all seems fine after 1.5TB.

I could have just pulled the 4TB SSD in the Mini as suggested, but I'd rather
not disassemble the rather fragile cables again, and really, it's no great
hardship leaving it running overnight.

--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?

<dde06829-b10b-4fc8-b53e-d17715f6baaa@scorecrow.com>

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From: 07.013@scorecrow.com (Bruce Horrocks)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2024 17:49:51 +0000
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In-Reply-To: <kGr*neUBz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
 by: Bruce Horrocks - Thu, 1 Feb 2024 17:49 UTC

On 01/02/2024 11:44, Theo wrote:
> Bruce Horrocks <07.013@scorecrow.com> wrote:
>> On 31/01/2024 15:39, RJH wrote:
>>> I've a mid-2011 Mac Mini with a Thunderbolt 1 socket, and I need to transfer
>>> 4TB from the Mini to a USB 3 external drive. It'll likely take some days over
>>> the Mini's USB 2 ports.
>>>
>>> Is there such a thing as a Thunderbolt 1 to micro-B USB 3 external drive
>>> cable? Or even a Firewire 800 to USB? Google suggests not . . .
>>>
>>> And if there is, would it appreciably reduce the time of the backup?
>>
>> To go the adaptor route you need:
>>
>> 1) Apple Thunderbolt 2 (which is backwards compatible with the
>> Thunderbolt 1 port on the Mac Mini) to Thunderbolt 3 / USB-C adaptor.
>>
>> <https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MMEL2ZM/A/thunderbolt-3-usb-c-to-thunderbolt-2-adapter>
>>
>>
>> 2) Generic USB-C to USB-3 adaptor
>> e.g.
>> <https://www.amazon.co.uk/Amazon-Basics-Charging-10Gbps-High-Speed/dp/B01GGKYIHS>
>>
>>
>> If you have to buy these and get them delivered then just set the
>> transfer going now... :-)
>
> That won't work, since Thunderbolt 2 doesn't carry USB. On TBT2 to get USB
> you first need a Thunderbolt bridge chip to strip off the Thunderbolt
> encapsulation to get at the PCIe, then use a PCIe USB host controller.
> These functions are inside a Thunderbolt 2 dock with USB ports.
>
> Just doing the adaptation of the port as you suggest will result in
> Thunderbolt signalling over USB-C, which only a Thunderbolt drive would
> understand. Thunderbolt drives are mostly SSDs and are expensive.
>
> Theo

Thanks Theo and David, you're right.

Looking again more closely, I see that Apple do explain this but on a
different page to where they extol the virtues of the adaptor. How helpful.

--
Bruce Horrocks
Surrey, England

Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?

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From: henry999@eircom.net (Henry)
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Subject: Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?
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 by: Henry - Fri, 2 Feb 2024 12:16 UTC

RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:

> I've a mid-2011 Mac Mini with a Thunderbolt 1 socket, and I need to transfer
> 4TB from the Mini to a USB 3 external drive. It'll likely take some days over
> the Mini's USB 2 ports.
>
> Is there such a thing as a Thunderbolt 1 to micro-B USB 3 external drive
> cable? Or even a Firewire 800 to USB? Google suggests not . . .
>
> And if there is, would it appreciably reduce the time of the backup?

I have for some years been using a Kanex KTU10 adapter, which has a male
Thunderbolt 1 and female USB 3 (A not C) and eSATA. It was not
expensive. Even if your USB drive is C, surely there are C < > A cables.

Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?

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From: nospam@needed.invalid (Paul)
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Subject: Re: Thunderbolt to external hard drive?
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 by: Paul - Sun, 4 Feb 2024 03:50 UTC

On 1/31/2024 10:39 AM, RJH wrote:
> I've a mid-2011 Mac Mini with a Thunderbolt 1 socket, and I need to transfer
> 4TB from the Mini to a USB 3 external drive. It'll likely take some days over
> the Mini's USB 2 ports.
>
> Is there such a thing as a Thunderbolt 1 to micro-B USB 3 external drive
> cable? Or even a Firewire 800 to USB? Google suggests not . . .
>
> And if there is, would it appreciably reduce the time of the backup?
>

When I needed to back up the internal drive on my Apple machine,
I used GbE at 112MB/sec.

Whatever you've got that's working, that's what you use.

Paul

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