I'm having one of those "do I really trust this" moments.

Nationwide want to get rid of the PITA card reader for security. However
they want to use facial recognition.

I get that it will go to a 3rd part and be mapped, digitised and sent
back to NW. Then deleted.

Yeah, like they will really delete it...

I just don't like the idea of my image being used for security, and
having it bounced around.

What is wrong with traditional TWA?
Why do they not use an authentication?

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote in news:usvbcu$1o7r9$1@dont-email.me:

> I'm having one of those "do I really trust this" moments.
>
> Nationwide want to get rid of the PITA card reader for security. However
> they want to use facial recognition.
>
> I get that it will go to a 3rd part and be mapped, digitised and sent
> back to NW. Then deleted.
>
> Yeah, like they will really delete it...
>
> I just don't like the idea of my image being used for security, and
> having it bounced around.
>
> What is wrong with traditional TWA?
> Why do they not use an authentication?
>
>
>

I opened a NW a/c after deciding Virgin were crap after they took over my
account with Yorkshire Bank.

It was a PITA having to wait for the card reader to arrive.

As soon as they offered biometrics I tried to register but it was 2 weeks
before their system would work.

Anyway, once I registered my face, I have not used it as they seem to be
happy with a fingerprint which is better and quicker from my POV.

YTC#1 wrote:

> I'm having one of those "do I really trust this" moments.
>
> Nationwide want to get rid of the PITA card reader for security.
> However they want to use facial recognition.
>
> I get that it will go to a 3rd part and be mapped, digitised and sent
> back to NW. Then deleted.
>
> Yeah, like they will really delete it...
>
> I just don't like the idea of my image being used for security, and
> having it bounced around.
>
> What is wrong with traditional TWA?
> Why do they not use an authentication?

I've been with Nationwide for 28 years and I'm quite comfortable with
them. The card reader is a faff and the biometrics are better and as
wessie says they seem quite happy with a fingerprint or the native face
recognition (on my Pixel 8).

It you're that worried I have a Nokia C2 you can buy and you can do
your banking in branch (which NW are mostly keeping open).

--
Simon

On 14/03/2024 18:36, wessie wrote:
> YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote in news:usvbcu$1o7r9$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> I'm having one of those "do I really trust this" moments.
>>
>> Nationwide want to get rid of the PITA card reader for security. However
>> they want to use facial recognition.
>>

<snip>
>
> Anyway, once I registered my face, I have not used it as they seem to be
> happy with a fingerprint which is better and quicker from my POV.

I've not even activated finger print with my phone :-)

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 14/03/2024 18:57, sweller wrote:
> YTC#1 wrote:
>
>> I'm having one of those "do I really trust this" moments.
>>
>> Nationwide want to get rid of the PITA card reader for security.
>> However they want to use facial recognition.
>>
>> I get that it will go to a 3rd part and be mapped, digitised and sent
>> back to NW. Then deleted.
>>
>> Yeah, like they will really delete it...
>>
>> I just don't like the idea of my image being used for security, and
>> having it bounced around.
>>
>> What is wrong with traditional TWA?
>> Why do they not use an authentication?
>
> I've been with Nationwide for 28 years and I'm quite comfortable with
Just 15 for me.
> them. The card reader is a faff and the biometrics are better and as
It's not NW I am uncomfortable with, it is the 3rd party.
I'd prefer finger print, but there does not seem to be an either/or choice.

> wessie says they seem quite happy with a fingerprint or the native face
> recognition (on my Pixel 8).

I'm not happy allowing the app to access my camera. So looks like I am
stuck with the card reader.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote in news:usvi57$1pven$1@dont-email.me:

> On 14/03/2024 18:36, wessie wrote:
>> YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote in news:usvbcu$1o7r9$1@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> I'm having one of those "do I really trust this" moments.
>>>
>>> Nationwide want to get rid of the PITA card reader for security.
>>> However they want to use facial recognition.
>>>
>
> <snip>
>>
>> Anyway, once I registered my face, I have not used it as they seem to
>> be happy with a fingerprint which is better and quicker from my POV.
>
> I've not even activated finger print with my phone :-)
>
>

and when you get locked out of the phone or bank account because you can't
remember the PIN or passcode?

learn how to use biometrics as we will all be reliant on it in our dotage

On 14/03/2024 19:58, wessie wrote:
> YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote in news:usvi57$1pven$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 14/03/2024 18:36, wessie wrote:
>>> YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote in news:usvbcu$1o7r9$1@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>> I'm having one of those "do I really trust this" moments.
>>>>
>>>> Nationwide want to get rid of the PITA card reader for security.
>>>> However they want to use facial recognition.
>>>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>>
>>> Anyway, once I registered my face, I have not used it as they seem to
>>> be happy with a fingerprint which is better and quicker from my POV.
>>
>> I've not even activated finger print with my phone :-)
>>
>>
>
> and when you get locked out of the phone or bank account because you can't
> remember the PIN or passcode?
>
By then I will have dementia. Remembering PINs and passcodes is just
something I do.

> learn how to use biometrics as we will all be reliant on it in our dotage

Not happy with facial.

Just because something exists, doesn't mean it is the best option.
I can see there are still issues out there.

from
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/enhancing-security-convenience-role-facial-recognition/
---8<
significant concern about privacy. Banks must develop robust data
protection mechanisms and evident policies to address these concerns.

Security Risks: Like any technology, facial recognition is not
resistant to security breaches. Banks must persistently update and
consolidate their security measures to safeguard against potential threats.

---8<

So, I will pass for now, and continue to monitor progress.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 14/03/2024 17:16, YTC#1 wrote:
> I'm having one of those "do I really trust this" moments.
>
> Nationwide want to get rid of the PITA card reader for security. However
> they want to use facial recognition.

You'd think, given all the recent fuss about deep fakes and AI generated
images, that moving to face recognition would be the last thing they'd
consider.

This report was fairly sobering in terms of how advanced the technology
being (ab)used by scammers has become:

<https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/04/asia/deepfake-cfo-scam-hong-kong-intl-hnk/index.html>

Regards,
--
Bruce Horrocks
FJR1300AS

YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote in news:usvms8$1r5ln$1@dont-email.me:

> On 14/03/2024 19:58, wessie wrote:
>> YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote in news:usvi57$1pven$1@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 14/03/2024 18:36, wessie wrote:
>>>> YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote in news:usvbcu$1o7r9$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm having one of those "do I really trust this" moments.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nationwide want to get rid of the PITA card reader for security.
>>>>> However they want to use facial recognition.
>>>>>
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, once I registered my face, I have not used it as they seem
>>>> to be happy with a fingerprint which is better and quicker from my
>>>> POV.
>>>
>>> I've not even activated finger print with my phone :-)
>>>
>>>
>>
>> and when you get locked out of the phone or bank account because you
>> can't remember the PIN or passcode?
>>
> By then I will have dementia. Remembering PINs and passcodes is just
> something I do.
>
>> learn how to use biometrics as we will all be reliant on it in our
>> dotage
>
> Not happy with facial.
>
> Just because something exists, doesn't mean it is the best option.
> I can see there are still issues out there.
>
> from
> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/enhancing-security-convenience-role-
faci
> al-recognition/ ---8<
> significant concern about privacy. Banks must develop robust data
> protection mechanisms and evident policies to address these concerns.
>
> Security Risks: Like any technology, facial recognition is not
> resistant to security breaches. Banks must persistently update and
> consolidate their security measures to safeguard against potential
> threats.
>
>
> ---8<
>
> So, I will pass for now, and continue to monitor progress.
>
>

not reading that, I deleted my Linkedin a/c

I assume you have one and gave them shitloads of your data?

On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 17:16:14 +0000, YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:

>I'm having one of those "do I really trust this" moments.
>
>Nationwide want to get rid of the PITA card reader for security. However
>they want to use facial recognition.

Try insisting on fingerprint instead. It's what I use with no bother.

>Why do they not use an authentication?

Good question. Have you asked them? Something like Authy, which seems
to wok seamlessly.

--
Colin Irvine
R1250RS

On 14/03/2024 21:05, wessie wrote:
> YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote in news:usvms8$1r5ln$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 14/03/2024 19:58, wessie wrote:
>>> YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote in news:usvi57$1pven$1@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>> On 14/03/2024 18:36, wessie wrote:
>>>>> YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote in news:usvbcu$1o7r9$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm having one of those "do I really trust this" moments.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nationwide want to get rid of the PITA card reader for security.
>>>>>> However they want to use facial recognition.
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, once I registered my face, I have not used it as they seem
>>>>> to be happy with a fingerprint which is better and quicker from my
>>>>> POV.
>>>>
>>>> I've not even activated finger print with my phone :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> and when you get locked out of the phone or bank account because you
>>> can't remember the PIN or passcode?
>>>
>> By then I will have dementia. Remembering PINs and passcodes is just
>> something I do.
>>
>>> learn how to use biometrics as we will all be reliant on it in our
>>> dotage
>>
>> Not happy with facial.
>>
>> Just because something exists, doesn't mean it is the best option.
>> I can see there are still issues out there.
>>
>> from
>> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/enhancing-security-convenience-role-
> faci
>> al-recognition/ ---8<
>> significant concern about privacy. Banks must develop robust data
>> protection mechanisms and evident policies to address these concerns.
>>
>> Security Risks: Like any technology, facial recognition is not
>> resistant to security breaches. Banks must persistently update and
>> consolidate their security measures to safeguard against potential
>> threats.
>>
>>
>> ---8<
>>
>> So, I will pass for now, and continue to monitor progress.
>>
>>
>
> not reading that, I deleted my Linkedin a/c
>
> I assume you have one and gave them shitloads of your data?

I have one and gave them the data I decided to give (which is generally
known anyway). I didn't give them my biometrics, DOB etc. Not eben a
pronoun :-)
Basically, it is a CV.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 14/03/2024 20:39, Bruce Horrocks wrote:
> On 14/03/2024 17:16, YTC#1 wrote:
>> I'm having one of those "do I really trust this" moments.
>>
>> Nationwide want to get rid of the PITA card reader for security.
>> However they want to use facial recognition.
>
> You'd think, given all the recent fuss about deep fakes and AI generated
> images, that moving to face recognition would be the last thing they'd
> consider.
Well, yes. They do go to great pains to describe the process of
"mapping" and creating a digital signature. But, well, er, yeah.

>
> This report was fairly sobering in terms of how advanced the technology
> being (ab)used by scammers has become:
>
> <https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/04/asia/deepfake-cfo-scam-hong-kong-intl-hnk/index.html>
>
Not sure they would go tot that effort to get my money :-)

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 14/03/2024 17:16, YTC#1 wrote:
> I'm having one of those "do I really trust this" moments.
>

I'm not going to do it. I'm happy with what I currently do with NW.

On 14/03/2024 20:32, YTC#1 wrote:
> On 14/03/2024 19:58, wessie wrote:
>> YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote in news:usvi57$1pven$1@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 14/03/2024 18:36, wessie wrote:
>>>> YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote in news:usvbcu$1o7r9$1@dont-email.me:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm having one of those "do I really trust this" moments.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nationwide want to get rid of the PITA card reader for security.
>>>>> However they want to use facial recognition.
>>>>>
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, once I registered my face, I have not used it as they seem to
>>>> be happy with a fingerprint which is better and quicker from my POV.
>>>
>>> I've not even activated finger print with my phone :-)
>>>
>>>
>>
>> and when you get locked out of the phone or bank account because you
>> can't
>> remember the PIN or passcode?
>>
> By then I will have dementia. Remembering PINs and passcodes is just
> something I do.
>
>> learn how to use biometrics as we will all be reliant on it in our dotage
>
> Not happy with facial.
>
> Just because something exists, doesn't mean it is the best option.
> I can see there are still issues out there.
>
> from
> https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/enhancing-security-convenience-role-facial-recognition/
> ---8<
>     significant concern about privacy. Banks must develop robust data
> protection mechanisms and evident policies to address these concerns.
>
>     Security Risks: Like any technology, facial recognition is not
> resistant to security breaches. Banks must persistently update and
> consolidate their security measures to safeguard against potential threats.
>
>
> ---8<
>
> So, I will pass for now, and continue to monitor progress.

+1

Chris

--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550T
https://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On 15/03/2024 09:14, YTC#1 wrote:
> On 14/03/2024 21:05, wessie wrote:
>> not reading that, I deleted my Linkedin a/c
>>
>> I assume you have one and gave them shitloads of your data?
>
> I have one and gave them the data I decided to give (which is generally
> known anyway). I didn't give them my biometrics, DOB etc. Not eben a
> pronoun :-)
> Basically, it is a CV.

Also +1!

Chris
--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550T
https://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On 15/03/2024 09:14, Colin Irvine wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 17:16:14 +0000, YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I'm having one of those "do I really trust this" moments.
>>
>> Nationwide want to get rid of the PITA card reader for security. However
>> they want to use facial recognition.
>
> Try insisting on fingerprint instead. It's what I use with no bother.

Except it goes into setting up facial 1st, with no skip.
>
>> Why do they not use an authentication?
>
> Good question. Have you asked them? Something like Authy, which seems
> to wok seamlessly.

Not yet, just gathering opinions :-)
>

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

Tim <nobody@home.co.uk> wrote in news:ut14sj$275pv$1@dont-email.me:

> On 14/03/2024 17:16, YTC#1 wrote:
>> I'm having one of those "do I really trust this" moments.
>>
>
> I'm not going to do it. I'm happy with what I currently do with NW.
>

like an episode of Dad's Army around here with a bunch of old duffers in
tin hats :P

On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 09:14:00 +0000, Colin Irvine <look@colinandpat.co.uk> wrote:

> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 17:16:14 +0000, YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:

> >Why do they not use an authentication?

> Good question. Have you asked them? Something like Authy, which seems
> to wo[r]k seamlessly.

I'm NOT AN AUTHY USER! I follow the Privacy subreddit though, and I
thought I recalled something about Authy being mentioned there. Turns
out the desktop Authy setup is merely a Chrome App. Chrome Apps are
sunsetted, so, if you're using Authy on a desktop, you probably need
to take steps.

+ https://authy.com/blog/authy-chrome-app-extension-end-life/

One step in a positive direction would be to convert from Windows to
Linux:

+ https://authy.com/blog/authy-desktop-now-available-in-beta-for-linux/

--
Worst Case

On 15/03/2024 05:05 wessie penned these words:
> I deleted my Linkedin a/c

Pretty much the first thing I did after deciding no way was I returning to the
rat race.
--
Ian

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of
the last priest"

On 15/03/2024 03:14 YTC#1 penned these words:
> I'd prefer finger print, but there does not seem to be an either/or choice

I use FP for my other accounts. Got to remember to disable it when travelling
(somewhere dodgy). FP readers don't require the user to be conscious or actually
attached to said finger.
--
Ian

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of
the last priest"

On 15/03/2024 01:16 YTC#1 penned these words:
> I'm having one of those "do I really trust this" moments.

Not relying on 2FA via SMS?

> Nationwide want to get rid of the PITA card reader for security. However
> they want to use facial recognition.

Got two of those & a Nat Worst one which appears to be identical under the cheap
plastic covers.

> I just don't like the idea of my image being used for security, and
> having it bounced around.

I had a shed load of issues with facial ID for one of me e-wallets, the auto
focus on the front camera packed in. Even with it fixed it is very dependent on
the lighting.

>
>
>

--
Ian

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of
the last priest"

On 15/03/2024 04:39 Bruce Horrocks penned these words:
> This report was fairly sobering in terms of how advanced the technology
> being (ab)used by scammers has become:
>
> <https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/04/asia/deepfake-cfo-scam-hong-kong-intl-hnk/index.html>

I watched recently a YouTube short with an AI generated presenter (allegedly) it
looked pretty realistic to me.
--
Ian

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of
the last priest"

Boots <news@millhouse-communications.co.uk> wrote in
news:j0tfck-vf3.ln1@bilbo.eternal-september.org:

> On 15/03/2024 03:14 YTC#1 penned these words:
>> I'd prefer finger print, but there does not seem to be an either/or
>> choice
>
> I use FP for my other accounts. Got to remember to disable it when
> travelling (somewhere dodgy). FP readers don't require the user to be
> conscious or actually attached to said finger.

I thought a severed finger would not work. I believe the fingerprint reader
needs the finger to have a flow of blood, and therefore iron molecules, to
generate the electrical field to trigger the sensor

On 15/03/2024 17:54, wessie wrote:
> Tim <nobody@home.co.uk> wrote in news:ut14sj$275pv$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 14/03/2024 17:16, YTC#1 wrote:
>>> I'm having one of those "do I really trust this" moments.
>>>
>>
>> I'm not going to do it. I'm happy with what I currently do with NW.
>>
>
> like an episode of Dad's Army around here with a bunch of old duffers in
> tin hats :P

Ha-ha, not :-)

I read a lot of the security updates from reliable sources, so forget
bleeding-edge and leading-edge (and while we're at it Edge as well)
until they've been borked a few times and Joe Q Public (aka Beta
Testers) have had their fun.

On 15/03/2024 19:46, "Worst Case"@dizum.com wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Mar 2024 09:14:00 +0000, Colin Irvine <look@colinandpat.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 14 Mar 2024 17:16:14 +0000, YTC#1 <ytc1@ytc1.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>> Why do they not use an authentication?
>
>> Good question. Have you asked them? Something like Authy, which seems
>> to wo[r]k seamlessly.
>
> I'm NOT AN AUTHY USER! I follow the Privacy subreddit though, and I
> thought I recalled something about Authy being mentioned there. Turns
> out the desktop Authy setup is merely a Chrome App. Chrome Apps are
> sunsetted, so, if you're using Authy on a desktop, you probably need
> to take steps.

Never thought about using it on a desktop. Only moble (FWIW I use MS
Auth, as clients have required it)
>

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/