If I use Pages or Numbers and close all the windows, the program
automatically quits when I switch to another program. This used to be seen as
a rather ungainly Windoze thing – when did Apple start doing it?

Martin S Taylor

On 2024-02-20, Martin S Taylor <correspondence@mRaErMtOiVnEsTtHaIySlor.com> wrote:
> If I use Pages or Numbers and close all the windows, the program
> automatically quits when I switch to another program. This used to be seen as
> a rather ungainly Windoze thing – when did Apple start doing it?
>
> Martin S Taylor

TextEdit does it too :( Probably applies now to all Apple's productivity apps?

--
Cheers, Alan

On 20 Feb 2024 at 9:22:48 am GMT, "Martin S Taylor"
<correspondence@mRaErMtOiVnEsTtHaIySlor.com> wrote:

> If I use Pages or Numbers and close all the windows, the program
> automatically quits when I switch to another program. This used to be seen as
> a rather ungainly Windoze thing – when did Apple start doing it?
>
> Martin S Taylor

That's not happening with Pages here (version 13.0, Sonoma 14.3).
--
TimH
pull tooth to reply by email

On 20 Feb 2024 at 9:52:53 am GMT, "Alan B"
<alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

> On 2024-02-20, Martin S Taylor <correspondence@mRaErMtOiVnEsTtHaIySlor.com>
> wrote:
>> If I use Pages or Numbers and close all the windows, the program
>> automatically quits when I switch to another program. This used to be seen as
>> a rather ungainly Windoze thing – when did Apple start doing it?
>>
>> Martin S Taylor
>
> TextEdit does it too :( Probably applies now to all Apple's productivity apps?

Nope, not for me! I had a quick look in System Settings to see if there's some
global setting causing the difference, but quickly gave up I'm afraid.
Sonoma's System Settings is not my happy place.
--
TimH
pull tooth to reply by email

On 20 Feb 2024 at 09:55:03 GMT, TimH wrote:

> On 20 Feb 2024 at 9:22:48 am GMT, "Martin S Taylor"
> <correspondence@mRaErMtOiVnEsTtHaIySlor.com> wrote:
>
>> If I use Pages or Numbers and close all the windows, the program
>> automatically quits when I switch to another program. This used to be seen as
>> a rather ungainly Windoze thing – when did Apple start doing it?
>>
>> Martin S Taylor
>
> That's not happening with Pages here (version 13.0, Sonoma 14.3).

Not here, on an Intel iMac. Maybe it's a silicon thing?

--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

Martin S Taylor <correspondence@mRaErMtOiVnEsTtHaIySlor.com> wrote:

> If I use Pages or Numbers and close all the windows, the program
> automatically quits when I switch to another program. This used to be seen as
> a rather ungainly Windoze thing – when did Apple start doing it?

There is a setting for it, somewhere. (IIRC)
Like 'Quit app when all windows are closed'.

Would have to search,

Jan

On 20.02.24 13:53, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Martin S Taylor <correspondence@mRaErMtOiVnEsTtHaIySlor.com> wrote:
>
>> If I use Pages or Numbers and close all the windows, the program
>> automatically quits when I switch to another program. This used to be seen as
>> a rather ungainly Windoze thing – when did Apple start doing it?
>
> There is a setting for it, somewhere. (IIRC)
> Like 'Quit app when all windows are closed'.
>
> Would have to search,

I did a search and were not able to find such a setting. In general one
big difference to Windows or Linux is that an application remains active
even when all windows are closed with the red button in the upper left
corner. That also applies to "command+w" which is equivalent. Only the
command "command+q" shuts an application down and ends its processes.

Jörg

--
"Ave Caesar! Morituri te salutant!"

On 20/02/2024 09:55, TimH wrote:
> On 20 Feb 2024 at 9:22:48 am GMT, "Martin S Taylor"
> <correspondence@mRaErMtOiVnEsTtHaIySlor.com> wrote:
>
>> If I use Pages or Numbers and close all the windows, the program
>> automatically quits when I switch to another program. This used to be seen as
>> a rather ungainly Windoze thing – when did Apple start doing it?
>>
>> Martin S Taylor
>
> That's not happening with Pages here (version 13.0, Sonoma 14.3).

Nor here. Interesting question!

--
Chris

Am 20.02.24 um 11:29 schrieb RJH:
> On 20 Feb 2024 at 09:55:03 GMT, TimH wrote:
>
>> On 20 Feb 2024 at 9:22:48 am GMT, "Martin S Taylor"
>> <correspondence@mRaErMtOiVnEsTtHaIySlor.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If I use Pages or Numbers and close all the windows, the program
>>> automatically quits when I switch to another program. This used to be seen as
>>> a rather ungainly Windoze thing – when did Apple start doing it?
>>>
>>> Martin S Taylor
>>
>> That's not happening with Pages here (version 13.0, Sonoma 14.3).
>
> Not here, on an Intel iMac. Maybe it's a silicon thing?

macOS 14.3.x is always the same. Has nothing to do with CPU or RAM.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

On 20 Feb 2024, Chris Ridd wrote
(in article <ur2qc3$2khd9$2@dont-email.me>):

> > > If I use Pages or Numbers and close all the windows, the program
> > > automatically quits when I switch to another program. This used to be seen
> > > as
> > > a rather ungainly Windoze thing – when did Apple start doing it?
> > >
> > > Martin S Taylor
> >
> > That's not happening with Pages here (version 13.0, Sonoma 14.3).
>
> Nor here. Interesting question!

With the latest version of Pages it's reverted, and no longer quits when all
the windows are shut. Numbers, however, still does quit.

MST

On 04/04/2024 19:59, Martin S Taylor wrote:

> With the latest version of Pages it's reverted, and no longer quits when all
> the windows are shut. Numbers, however, still does quit.

Sounds a bit like the behaviour of the old Automatic Termination feature
that was introduced in OS X 10.7. It required developer opt-in to work,
and the only apps that ever really used it were Preview and Textedit.

<https://eclecticlight.co/2017/11/07/return-of-the-zombie-app-is-it-a-feature-or-bug/>

If that's still a thing in macOS, and I've no idea if it is, then there
used to be a defaults command to turn it off:

defaults write -g NSDisableAutomaticTermination -bool yes

Calum <com.gmail@nospam.scottishwildcat> wrote:
> On 04/04/2024 19:59, Martin S Taylor wrote:
>
>> With the latest version of Pages it's reverted, and no longer quits when all
>> the windows are shut. Numbers, however, still does quit.
>
> Sounds a bit like the behaviour of the old Automatic Termination feature
> that was introduced in OS X 10.7. It required developer opt-in to work,
> and the only apps that ever really used it were Preview and Textedit.
>
> <https://eclecticlight.co/2017/11/07/return-of-the-zombie-app-is-it-a-feature-or-bug/>
>
> If that's still a thing in macOS, and I've no idea if it is, then there
> used to be a defaults command to turn it off:
>
> defaults write -g NSDisableAutomaticTermination -bool yes

Excuse my (probable) ignorance but would an app in this zombie state still
show up via a ps command? If so, a kill command ought to close it down. I
guess a restart will sort things out but that seems a bit of a sledgehammer
technique!

--
Cheers, Alan

On 6 Apr 2024 at 07:31:30 BST, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid>
wrote:

> Calum <com.gmail@nospam.scottishwildcat> wrote:
>> On 04/04/2024 19:59, Martin S Taylor wrote:
>>
>>> With the latest version of Pages it's reverted, and no longer quits when all
>>> the windows are shut. Numbers, however, still does quit.
>>
>> Sounds a bit like the behaviour of the old Automatic Termination feature
>> that was introduced in OS X 10.7. It required developer opt-in to work,
>> and the only apps that ever really used it were Preview and Textedit.
>>
>> <https://eclecticlight.co/2017/11/07/return-of-the-zombie-app-is-it-a-feature-or-bug/>
>>
>> If that's still a thing in macOS, and I've no idea if it is, then there
>> used to be a defaults command to turn it off:
>>
>> defaults write -g NSDisableAutomaticTermination -bool yes
>
> Excuse my (probable) ignorance but would an app in this zombie state still
> show up via a ps command? If so, a kill command ought to close it down. I
> guess a restart will sort things out but that seems a bit of a sledgehammer
> technique!

Zombie state? What, just because it has no open windows? For most apps, that
is quite appropriate. Exceptions might be Disk Utility where having more than
one window makes little sense. An app with no open wondows will still show up
in the Dock, and by clicking on it there should cause it to present an Open
File dialogue.

When you have an app that takes a while to start up and be ready, it is most
annoying if it closes just because you closed its last open window.

--
Tim

On 5 Apr 2024, Calum wrote
(in article <uupumi$1kksb$1@dont-email.me>):

> Sounds a bit like the behaviour of the old Automatic Termination feature
> that was introduced in OS X 10.7. It required developer opt-in to work,
> and the only apps that ever really used it were Preview and Textedit.
>
> <https://eclecticlight.co/2017/11/07/return-of-the-zombie-app-is-it-a-feature-
> or-bug/>
>
> If that's still a thing in macOS, and I've no idea if it is, then there
> used to be a defaults command to turn it off:
>
> defaults write -g NSDisableAutomaticTermination -bool yes

I just tried that, and it makes no difference. Numbers still quits if no
windows are open; Pages remains open.

MST