It appears that, for several weeks now, e-mail from Plusnet has been
rejected by Google. I have asked Plusnet about this and they say there
is nothing they can do and they are waiting for Google to resolve it.

What on earth is going on that this state of affairs could arise and
then not be resolved straight away?

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> It appears that, for several weeks now, e-mail from Plusnet has been
> rejected by Google. I have asked Plusnet about this and they say there
> is nothing they can do and they are waiting for Google to resolve it.
>
> What on earth is going on that this state of affairs could arise and
> then not be resolved straight away?

What Non-delivery information do you get from Plusnet?

As an example, sometimes email from the servers at Zen Internet gets
rejected, see this example coming from <Mailer-Daemon@zen.co.uk>:

"
SMTP error from remote mail server after end of data:
550 The sending IP (212.23.1.20) is listed on https://spamrl.com/.
Please resolve this and retry.
"

In this example the resolution would be with Zen Internet, who would
have to get their mail server de-listed from https://spamrl.com/

The best solution is to send from your own mail hosting facility (that
you buy from a competent supplier and that you pay for), but I am aware
of your difficulties in achieving that.

--
Graham J

Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:

> Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> > It appears that, for several weeks now, e-mail from Plusnet has been
> > rejected by Google. I have asked Plusnet about this and they say there
> > is nothing they can do and they are waiting for Google to resolve it.
> >
> > What on earth is going on that this state of affairs could arise and
> > then not be resolved straight away?
>
> What Non-delivery information do you get from Plusnet?

There is no rejection notice, the e-mails just don't get through. It
has been happening for some time but I didn't realise because I thought
people weren't bothering to reply. This weekend a friend on Gmail
needed information urgently by e-mail and waited on the 'phone while I
sent it - then it became apparent that nothing was getting through.

I have rung Plusnet this morning and reported it, they have replied:

~~~~~~~
>As discussed, the issue you have sending emails to Gmail addresses is
>a known issue and the resolution lies with Google and there is
>nothing we can do from our end to resolve this at this time.
>
>Apologies for the inconvenience caused.

~~~~~~~

Thi is causing a lot of disruption: I distribute invoices for another
business and we now realise that the reason some of them haven't been
paid is because they haven't arrived. I can't e-mail the customers
addresses to the business owner, which would enable him to send to them
directly, because he is also on Gmail and I can only communicate with
him by 'phone at the moment.

I have recently replied to customer enquiries and had no return
business, presumably those e-mails haven't get through either.

> The best solution is to send from your own mail hosting facility (that
> you buy from a competent supplier and that you pay for), but I am aware
> of your difficulties in achieving that.

My alternative e-mail addresses have already been blocked by Google for
over a year, I have had to remember to use my Plusnet address when the
recipient is on Gmail.

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

On 4 Mar 2024 at 11:34:43 GMT, "Liz Tuddenham" <Liz Tuddenham> wrote:

> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>>> It appears that, for several weeks now, e-mail from Plusnet has been
>>> rejected by Google. I have asked Plusnet about this and they say there
>>> is nothing they can do and they are waiting for Google to resolve it.
>>>
>>> What on earth is going on that this state of affairs could arise and
>>> then not be resolved straight away?
>>
>> What Non-delivery information do you get from Plusnet?
>
> There is no rejection notice, the e-mails just don't get through. It
> has been happening for some time but I didn't realise because I thought
> people weren't bothering to reply. This weekend a friend on Gmail
> needed information urgently by e-mail and waited on the 'phone while I
> sent it - then it became apparent that nothing was getting through.
>
> I have rung Plusnet this morning and reported it, they have replied:
>
> ~~~~~~~
>> As discussed, the issue you have sending emails to Gmail addresses is
>> a known issue and the resolution lies with Google and there is
>> nothing we can do from our end to resolve this at this time.
>>
>> Apologies for the inconvenience caused.
>
> ~~~~~~~
>
> Thi is causing a lot of disruption: I distribute invoices for another
> business and we now realise that the reason some of them haven't been
> paid is because they haven't arrived. I can't e-mail the customers
> addresses to the business owner, which would enable him to send to them
> directly, because he is also on Gmail and I can only communicate with
> him by 'phone at the moment.
>
> I have recently replied to customer enquiries and had no return
> business, presumably those e-mails haven't get through either.
>
>
>> The best solution is to send from your own mail hosting facility (that
>> you buy from a competent supplier and that you pay for), but I am aware
>> of your difficulties in achieving that.
>
> My alternative e-mail addresses have already been blocked by Google for
> over a year, I have had to remember to use my Plusnet address when the
> recipient is on Gmail.

Have you tried asking for help here?

https://community.plus.net

Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
> My alternative e-mail addresses have already been blocked by Google for
> over a year, I have had to remember to use my Plusnet address when the
> recipient is on Gmail.

Such is the way with huge mail hosts like Microsoft and Google: they receive
enormous amounts of spam and have to fend it off. It's an ongoing war and
sometimes there can be civilian casualties.

For your alternative addresses, make sure they have SPF/DKIM/DMARC set up.
And be sure to use the SMTP server that matches the address. In times past
we could 'forge' emails to come with a From address that didn't match the
server it was sent through (eg sending From your domain using your ISP's
SMTP server). That doesn't work any more - if you send from
....@example.com you need to send that message using the example.com SMTP
server.

Theo

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

> Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > My alternative e-mail addresses have already been blocked by Google for
> > over a year, I have had to remember to use my Plusnet address when the
> > recipient is on Gmail.
>
> Such is the way with huge mail hosts like Microsoft and Google: they receive
> enormous amounts of spam and have to fend it off. It's an ongoing war and
> sometimes there can be civilian casualties.

Perhaps the odd mistake, but blocking an entire major UK company for
several weeks can hardly be ignored as just a minor mishap.

> For your alternative addresses, make sure they have SPF/DKIM/DMARC set up.

I'm not sure how that can be done with Claris Emailer on OS 8.6

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

On 04/03/2024 13:37, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> My alternative e-mail addresses have already been blocked by Google for
>>> over a year, I have had to remember to use my Plusnet address when the
>>> recipient is on Gmail.
>>
>> Such is the way with huge mail hosts like Microsoft and Google: they receive
>> enormous amounts of spam and have to fend it off. It's an ongoing war and
>> sometimes there can be civilian casualties.
>
> Perhaps the odd mistake, but blocking an entire major UK company for
> several weeks can hardly be ignored as just a minor mishap.
>
>
>> For your alternative addresses, make sure they have SPF/DKIM/DMARC set up.
>
> I'm not sure how that can be done with Claris Emailer on OS 8.6

It's not a user thing, it's a hosting/domain thing. Old domains may not
come with SPF/DKIM and so are unverifiable which is why some hosts
refuse them.

I have an old .name domain which doesn't have them and won't ever get
them so it'll have to be dumped. Which is annoying as I was using it my
long-term personal address which would never change.

On 4 Mar 2024 at 15:14:37 GMT, "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 04/03/2024 13:37, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> My alternative e-mail addresses have already been blocked by Google for
>>>> over a year, I have had to remember to use my Plusnet address when the
>>>> recipient is on Gmail.
>>>
>>> Such is the way with huge mail hosts like Microsoft and Google: they receive
>>> enormous amounts of spam and have to fend it off. It's an ongoing war and
>>> sometimes there can be civilian casualties.
>>
>> Perhaps the odd mistake, but blocking an entire major UK company for
>> several weeks can hardly be ignored as just a minor mishap.
>>
>>
>>> For your alternative addresses, make sure they have SPF/DKIM/DMARC set up.
>>
>> I'm not sure how that can be done with Claris Emailer on OS 8.6
>
> It's not a user thing, it's a hosting/domain thing. Old domains may not
> come with SPF/DKIM and so are unverifiable which is why some hosts
> refuse them.
>
> I have an old .name domain which doesn't have them and won't ever get
> them so it'll have to be dumped. Which is annoying as I was using it my
> long-term personal address which would never change.

Why don't you just move its hosting to someone else? The SPF business is a
record in the DNS entry for a domain, IIRC.

--
Tim

In message <l4mb3mF1l6dU1@mid.individual.net>
TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:

> On 4 Mar 2024 at 15:14:37 GMT, "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 04/03/2024 13:37, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> > > Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> >>
> > > > Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > > > > My alternative e-mail addresses have already been blocked by
> > > > > Google for over a year, I have had to remember to use my Plusnet
> > > > > address when the recipient is on Gmail.
> >>>
> > > > Such is the way with huge mail hosts like Microsoft and Google:
> > > > they receive enormous amounts of spam and have to fend it off.
> > > > It's an ongoing war and sometimes there can be civilian
> > > > casualties.
> >>
> > > Perhaps the odd mistake, but blocking an entire major UK company for
> > > several weeks can hardly be ignored as just a minor mishap.
> >>
> >>
> > > > For your alternative addresses, make sure they have SPF/DKIM/DMARC
> > > > set up.
> >>
> > > I'm not sure how that can be done with Claris Emailer on OS 8.6
> >
> > It's not a user thing, it's a hosting/domain thing. Old domains may
> > not come with SPF/DKIM and so are unverifiable which is why some hosts
> > refuse them.
> >
> > I have an old .name domain which doesn't have them and won't ever get
> > them so it'll have to be dumped. Which is annoying as I was using it
> > my long-term personal address which would never change.
>
> Why don't you just move its hosting to someone else? The SPF business is
> a record in the DNS entry for a domain, IIRC.

For my domains all I had to do was tick a box to say I wanted SPF and
another for DKIM. The hosting service did the rest. Simple.

--

On 04.03.24 14:37, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> My alternative e-mail addresses have already been blocked by Google for
>>> over a year, I have had to remember to use my Plusnet address when the
>>> recipient is on Gmail.
>>
>> Such is the way with huge mail hosts like Microsoft and Google: they receive
>> enormous amounts of spam and have to fend it off. It's an ongoing war and
>> sometimes there can be civilian casualties.
>
> Perhaps the odd mistake, but blocking an entire major UK company for
> several weeks can hardly be ignored as just a minor mishap.

That is the arrogance of Google and Microsoft. Those who want to do
serious business should refrain from using services from these companies.

Privately I tell people that I will never send mails to Google-Accounts
and Microsoft/Outlook and I do not want to receive mails from these
services. I do not want these companies to know my mail-address or even
more.

I'm aware that this does not help you at all. Google and Microsoft are
definitely destroying e-mail as a serious communication channel.

I hope you will find soon a solution!

Jörg

--
"Ave Caesar! Morituri te salutant!"

On 04 Mar 2024 13:07:44 +0000 (GMT), Theo wrote:

> In times past
> we could 'forge' emails to come with a From address that didn't match the
> server it was sent through (eg sending From your domain using your ISP's
> SMTP server). That doesn't work any more - if you send from
> ...@example.com you need to send that message using the example.com SMTP
> server.

I don't think that's part of IMAP, usually it's a line at the top of
the message (eg From...).

Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > > My alternative e-mail addresses have already been blocked by Google for
> > > over a year, I have had to remember to use my Plusnet address when the
> > > recipient is on Gmail.
> >
> > Such is the way with huge mail hosts like Microsoft and Google: they
> > receive enormous amounts of spam and have to fend it off. It's an
> > ongoing war and sometimes there can be civilian casualties.
>
> Perhaps the odd mistake, but blocking an entire major UK company for
> several weeks can hardly be ignored as just a minor mishap.

It is possible Plusnet was used to send a load of spam, which might have got
it on the naughty step. Google is not renowned for being good at
customer service (remember we're not customers, we're the product).

> > For your alternative addresses, make sure they have SPF/DKIM/DMARC set up.
>
> I'm not sure how that can be done with Claris Emailer on OS 8.6

You need to ask your domain host to set them up. According to:

https://dmarcian.com/domain-checker/?domain=poppyrecords.co.uk

you have no DMARC, SPF or DKIM enabled on that domain. So not surprising
that any emails from it are blocked. Once done you need to configure your
mail program send using the right mail server - eg if Poppyrecords is hosted
at fasthosts you need to send using the Fasthosts SMTP server.

This can be problematic if you have mail accounts at different providers and
your mail client can't support multiple outgoing SMTP servers. I suppose
one workaround is to run a local SMTP server that receives mail from the
client and then routes it to various outbound servers depending on the From
address.

Theo

TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
> On 4 Mar 2024 at 15:14:37 GMT, "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 04/03/2024 13:37, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>>> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> My alternative e-mail addresses have already been blocked by Google for
>>>>> over a year, I have had to remember to use my Plusnet address when the
>>>>> recipient is on Gmail.
>>>>
>>>> Such is the way with huge mail hosts like Microsoft and Google: they receive
>>>> enormous amounts of spam and have to fend it off. It's an ongoing war and
>>>> sometimes there can be civilian casualties.
>>>
>>> Perhaps the odd mistake, but blocking an entire major UK company for
>>> several weeks can hardly be ignored as just a minor mishap.
>>>
>>>
>>>> For your alternative addresses, make sure they have SPF/DKIM/DMARC set up.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure how that can be done with Claris Emailer on OS 8.6
>>
>> It's not a user thing, it's a hosting/domain thing. Old domains may not
>> come with SPF/DKIM and so are unverifiable which is why some hosts
>> refuse them.
>>
>> I have an old .name domain which doesn't have them and won't ever get
>> them so it'll have to be dumped. Which is annoying as I was using it my
>> long-term personal address which would never change.
>
> Why don't you just move its hosting to someone else? The SPF business is a
> record in the DNS entry for a domain, IIRC.

I tried, but Mythic Beasts said they couldn't do anything.

Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
> On 04.03.24 14:37, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> My alternative e-mail addresses have already been blocked by Google for
>>>> over a year, I have had to remember to use my Plusnet address when the
>>>> recipient is on Gmail.
>>>
>>> Such is the way with huge mail hosts like Microsoft and Google: they receive
>>> enormous amounts of spam and have to fend it off. It's an ongoing war and
>>> sometimes there can be civilian casualties.
>>
>> Perhaps the odd mistake, but blocking an entire major UK company for
>> several weeks can hardly be ignored as just a minor mishap.
>
> That is the arrogance of Google and Microsoft. Those who want to do
> serious business should refrain from using services from these companies.

lol.

I wish you luck, King Canute...

On 4 Mar 2024 at 21:50:48 GMT, "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

> TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>> On 4 Mar 2024 at 15:14:37 GMT, "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 04/03/2024 13:37, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>>>> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> My alternative e-mail addresses have already been blocked by Google for
>>>>>> over a year, I have had to remember to use my Plusnet address when the
>>>>>> recipient is on Gmail.
>>>>>
>>>>> Such is the way with huge mail hosts like Microsoft and Google: they receive
>>>>> enormous amounts of spam and have to fend it off. It's an ongoing war and
>>>>> sometimes there can be civilian casualties.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps the odd mistake, but blocking an entire major UK company for
>>>> several weeks can hardly be ignored as just a minor mishap.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> For your alternative addresses, make sure they have SPF/DKIM/DMARC set up.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure how that can be done with Claris Emailer on OS 8.6
>>>
>>> It's not a user thing, it's a hosting/domain thing. Old domains may not
>>> come with SPF/DKIM and so are unverifiable which is why some hosts
>>> refuse them.
>>>
>>> I have an old .name domain which doesn't have them and won't ever get
>>> them so it'll have to be dumped. Which is annoying as I was using it my
>>> long-term personal address which would never change.
>>
>> Why don't you just move its hosting to someone else? The SPF business is a
>> record in the DNS entry for a domain, IIRC.
>
> I tried, but Mythic Beasts said they couldn't do anything.

Are they hosting the domain? If so you get to add/modify email addresses for
that domain with M-B. And then as part of the setup for email for that doamin
with M-B, is the SPF etc business.

--
Tim

In message <us5fno$3c4ll$1@dont-email.me>
Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

> TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
> > On 4 Mar 2024 at 15:14:37 GMT, "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On 04/03/2024 13:37, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> > > > Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> >>>
> > > > > Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > > > > > My alternative e-mail addresses have already been blocked by
> > > > > > Google for over a year, I have had to remember to use my
> > > > > > Plusnet address when the recipient is on Gmail.
> >>>>
> > > > > Such is the way with huge mail hosts like Microsoft and Google:
> > > > > they receive enormous amounts of spam and have to fend it off.
> > > > > It's an ongoing war and sometimes there can be civilian
> > > > > casualties.
> >>>
> > > > Perhaps the odd mistake, but blocking an entire major UK company
> > > > for several weeks can hardly be ignored as just a minor mishap.
> >>>
> >>>
> > > > > For your alternative addresses, make sure they have
> > > > > SPF/DKIM/DMARC set up.
> >>>
> > > > I'm not sure how that can be done with Claris Emailer on OS 8.6
> >>
> > > It's not a user thing, it's a hosting/domain thing. Old domains may
> > > not come with SPF/DKIM and so are unverifiable which is why some
> > > hosts refuse them.
> >>
> > > I have an old .name domain which doesn't have them and won't ever
> > > get them so it'll have to be dumped. Which is annoying as I was
> > > using it my long-term personal address which would never change.
> >
> > Why don't you just move its hosting to someone else? The SPF business
> > is a record in the DNS entry for a domain, IIRC.
>
> I tried, but Mythic Beasts said they couldn't do anything.

You might need to expand on that 'cos Mythic Beasts provide my hosting
with SPF/DKIM.

Am 04.03.24 um 22:50 schrieb Chris:
> Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
>> On 04.03.24 14:37, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>>> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> My alternative e-mail addresses have already been blocked by Google for
>>>>> over a year, I have had to remember to use my Plusnet address when the
>>>>> recipient is on Gmail.
>>>>
>>>> Such is the way with huge mail hosts like Microsoft and Google: they receive
>>>> enormous amounts of spam and have to fend it off. It's an ongoing war and
>>>> sometimes there can be civilian casualties.
>>>
>>> Perhaps the odd mistake, but blocking an entire major UK company for
>>> several weeks can hardly be ignored as just a minor mishap.
>>
>> That is the arrogance of Google and Microsoft. Those who want to do
>> serious business should refrain from using services from these companies.
>
> lol.
>
> I wish you luck, King Canute...

Why do I never have problems like the ones discussed here?

To use the brain is not forbidden.
And I strongly hope the EU increases the pressure on these antisocial
and monopolistic companies further. The last one getting a hit was Apple
with a fine of €1.8 bln. Won't be the last and certainly not the highest.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
> On 4 Mar 2024 at 21:50:48 GMT, "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>>> On 4 Mar 2024 at 15:14:37 GMT, "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 04/03/2024 13:37, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>>>>> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> My alternative e-mail addresses have already been blocked by Google for
>>>>>>> over a year, I have had to remember to use my Plusnet address when the
>>>>>>> recipient is on Gmail.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Such is the way with huge mail hosts like Microsoft and Google: they receive
>>>>>> enormous amounts of spam and have to fend it off. It's an ongoing war and
>>>>>> sometimes there can be civilian casualties.
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps the odd mistake, but blocking an entire major UK company for
>>>>> several weeks can hardly be ignored as just a minor mishap.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> For your alternative addresses, make sure they have SPF/DKIM/DMARC set up.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure how that can be done with Claris Emailer on OS 8.6
>>>>
>>>> It's not a user thing, it's a hosting/domain thing. Old domains may not
>>>> come with SPF/DKIM and so are unverifiable which is why some hosts
>>>> refuse them.
>>>>
>>>> I have an old .name domain which doesn't have them and won't ever get
>>>> them so it'll have to be dumped. Which is annoying as I was using it my
>>>> long-term personal address which would never change.
>>>
>>> Why don't you just move its hosting to someone else? The SPF business is a
>>> record in the DNS entry for a domain, IIRC.
>>
>> I tried, but Mythic Beasts said they couldn't do anything.
>
> Are they hosting the domain? If so you get to add/modify email addresses for
> that domain with M-B. And then as part of the setup for email for that doamin
> with M-B, is the SPF etc business.

I'm way outside my knowledge base, here, but this is specifically related
to these .name domains. They were released a long time ago as personal
domains with unique emails associated with them. If your name is Chris
Columbus then the domain was chris.columbus.name and email
chris@columbus.name

I tried to move my domain to mythic beasts as currently my emails are being
forwarded to plusnet but they wouldn't accept it because of lack of
DKIM/SPF. I'm not the expert so accepted their decision as the CS person
double-checked the situation and was apologetic.

On 5 Mar 2024 at 08:17:17 GMT, "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

> If your name is Chris
> Columbus then the domain was chris.columbus.name and email
> chris@columbus.name

Well, the domain is columbus.name in that case, not
chris.columbus.name... seems like there's going to be a lot of dupes
anyway, not everyone is globally unique like I am!

The columbus.name domain is presumably shared with all the other
columbuses then? No surprise another hoster can't take it over for just
Chris.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
Sent from my VAX 11/780

Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
> On 5 Mar 2024 at 08:17:17 GMT, "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > If your name is Chris
> > Columbus then the domain was chris.columbus.name and email
> > chris@columbus.name
>
> Well, the domain is columbus.name in that case, not
> chris.columbus.name... seems like there's going to be a lot of dupes
> anyway, not everyone is globally unique like I am!
>
> The columbus.name domain is presumably shared with all the other
> columbuses then? No surprise another hoster can't take it over for just
> Chris.

It seems like you registered the third level domain, ie you own
chris.columbus.name and they own and host columbus.name and offer a
forwarding service. So you can have whatever@chris.columbus.name and that's
yours to host as you wish, but chris@columbus.name is on their forwarding
service. And it seems that's quite broken because it doesn't offer any
outbound SMTP nor SPF/DMARC:

https://serverfault.com/questions/1044206/is-email-deliverability-impossible-with-a-name-email-address

Basically it's an idea that worked 20 years ago but doesn't work in the
modern world. In those days you could simply 'forge' your emails sent from
your ISP to look like they came from chris@columbus.name, but nowadays that
gets rejected as spam.

You can still receive on chris@columbus.name, but you can never successfully
send as it. So best you can do is set up a mailbox like
email@chris.columbus.name and use that as your sending address. The
chris@columbus.name goes on your business cards or whatever but purely as a
receiving address.

Theo

mechanic <mechanic@example.net> wrote:
> On 04 Mar 2024 13:07:44 +0000 (GMT), Theo wrote:
>
> > In times past
> > we could 'forge' emails to come with a From address that didn't match the
> > server it was sent through (eg sending From your domain using your ISP's
> > SMTP server). That doesn't work any more - if you send from
> > ...@example.com you need to send that message using the example.com SMTP
> > server.
>
> I don't think that's part of IMAP, usually it's a line at the top of
> the message (eg From...).

AIUI SPF looks at the From field in the SMTP envelope but DMARC looks at the
actual body From. So both are checked in different ways.

(The SMTP envelope is not something we control in the UI, but is set by
the mail systems that send the message. They may just pick up the body
From, or reset it to match the account being used to send)

Theo

On 5 Mar 2024 at 10:51:24 GMT, "Theo"
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

> Basically it's an idea that worked 20 years ago but doesn't work in the
> modern world.

Indeed. Thanks for the research and summary, that's a reminder of more
innocent times!

Cheers - Jaimie
--
Sent from my VAX 11/780

Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
> Am 04.03.24 um 22:50 schrieb Chris:
>> Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
>>> On 04.03.24 14:37, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>>>> Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> My alternative e-mail addresses have already been blocked by Google for
>>>>>> over a year, I have had to remember to use my Plusnet address when the
>>>>>> recipient is on Gmail.
>>>>>
>>>>> Such is the way with huge mail hosts like Microsoft and Google: they receive
>>>>> enormous amounts of spam and have to fend it off. It's an ongoing war and
>>>>> sometimes there can be civilian casualties.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps the odd mistake, but blocking an entire major UK company for
>>>> several weeks can hardly be ignored as just a minor mishap.
>>>
>>> That is the arrogance of Google and Microsoft. Those who want to do
>>> serious business should refrain from using services from these companies.
>>
>> lol.
>>
>> I wish you luck, King Canute...
>
> Why do I never have problems like the ones discussed here?

I don't have them either. I don't ban google nor microsoft either; it would
be impossible to do my job.

> To use the brain is not forbidden.
> And I strongly hope the EU increases the pressure on these antisocial
> and monopolistic companies further. The last one getting a hit was Apple
> with a fine of €1.8 bln. Won't be the last and certainly not the highest.

The thing I don't understand is why we don't have equivalent industries in
Europe that can compete? These tech giants are beneficial, but it would be
nice to have choices from outside of the US.

On 05/03/2024 11:27, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
> On 5 Mar 2024 at 10:51:24 GMT, "Theo"
> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> Basically it's an idea that worked 20 years ago but doesn't work in the
>> modern world.
>
> Indeed. Thanks for the research and summary, that's a reminder of more
> innocent times!
>
> Cheers - Jaimie

If you're willing to spend money (circa £30pa) to fix it then you could
have a word with the technical people at https://www.authsmtp.co.uk/ to
see if they can offer a solution via their service.

--
Bruce Horrocks
Surrey, England

Bruce Horrocks <07.013@scorecrow.com> wrote:
> On 05/03/2024 11:27, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
> > On 5 Mar 2024 at 10:51:24 GMT, "Theo"
> > <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> Basically it's an idea that worked 20 years ago but doesn't work in the
> >> modern world.
> >
> > Indeed. Thanks for the research and summary, that's a reminder of more
> > innocent times!
> >
> > Cheers - Jaimie
>
> If you're willing to spend money (circa £30pa) to fix it then you could
> have a word with the technical people at https://www.authsmtp.co.uk/ to
> see if they can offer a solution via their service.

I don't think there is a solution. You don't own the columbus.name domain,
so you can't change its DNS. You can't send 'authentic' @columbus.name
emails whatever you do because the owner of columbus.name (Verisign) has in
effect declared in their DNS that no third party sends 'authentic' emails
(with valid SPF/DKIM).

Verisign are the only ones in the position of setting its DNS to point to an
email service with appropriate authentication. But they have never offered
an outbound SMTP service and have no plans to, so they refuse to do so.

Best you can do its use the other features of the domain you do own and not
send emails with @columbus.name, use it for receive only and send from
@chris.columbus.name instead.

The problem boils down to using email hosted on a domain you don't own, even
if it's part of a package including a domain you do. It's not fundamentally
different from having an ISP email address - you don't get the rights to
move it to a different host, you have to live with their setup.

Theo