Installing Sonoma has destabilised Lightrom 5 on SWMBO's M1 Mini, thus
annoying her. So I look to replacing Sonoma with Monterey, which runs nicely
on our 2014 Mini used as a file server. A quick test of LR5 appears to show
that it runs on Monterey.

But Apple appears to have decided to be witty about "downgrading". I ran
"Install macOS Monterey.app" and it won't install on the Sonoma boot disk,
instead suggesting I look at some Apple Note which helpfully tells me how to
create a bootable USB stick from the app, but which also refuses to allow the
boot disk to be "downgraded".

Wih Apple Silicon, is it no longer possible to get back to the OS this machine
was purchased with (Big Sur), and then move forward?

--
Tim

On 2024-03-19, TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
> Installing Sonoma has destabilised Lightrom 5 on SWMBO's M1 Mini, thus
> annoying her. So I look to replacing Sonoma with Monterey, which runs nicely
> on our 2014 Mini used as a file server. A quick test of LR5 appears to show
> that it runs on Monterey.
>
> But Apple appears to have decided to be witty about "downgrading". I ran
> "Install macOS Monterey.app" and it won't install on the Sonoma boot disk,
> instead suggesting I look at some Apple Note which helpfully tells me how to
> create a bootable USB stick from the app, but which also refuses to allow the
> boot disk to be "downgraded".
>
> Wih Apple Silicon, is it no longer possible to get back to the OS this machine
> was purchased with (Big Sur), and then move forward?

I suspect it can be done with Apple Configurator and the appropriate .ipsw
file. But you would need to use a another Mac running Configurator with a copy
of the ipsw file on it and connected to the M1 Mini via a suitable USB cable.
There's probably info about this by doing a bit of googling. ipsw files for
recent macOS versions can be obtained from the mrmacintosh.com site.

--
Cheers, Alan

On 19/03/2024 21:51, Alan B *may have made a slip*!

> I suspect it can be done with Apple Configurator and the appropriate .ipsw
> file. But you would need to use a another Mac running Configurator with a copy
> of the ipsw file on it and connected to the M1 Mini via a suitable USB cable.
> There's probably info about this by doing a bit of googling. ipsw files for
> recent macOS versions can be obtained from the mrmacintosh.com site.

FYI ............

There has been no mention of Graphic Converter here in this ASC forum
thread - except by you, 'etresoft'.

Kurt has gone to great lengths to explain how Apple protects its own
equipment and that there is no need for third party protection software.
You, on the other hand, have supported the sale and marketing of a
product calling itself ClamXAV - www.clamxav.com.

How do you know that product is not /installing/ malware? Have you
checked it? Apple most certainly has not!

Can anyone else see the irony here? (A rhetorical question - not a poll!)

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255038944?sortBy=newest_first

Alan B <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 2024-03-19, TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>> Installing Sonoma has destabilised Lightrom 5 on SWMBO's M1 Mini, thus
>> annoying her. So I look to replacing Sonoma with Monterey, which runs nicely
>> on our 2014 Mini used as a file server. A quick test of LR5 appears to show
>> that it runs on Monterey.
>>
>> But Apple appears to have decided to be witty about "downgrading". I ran
>> "Install macOS Monterey.app" and it won't install on the Sonoma boot disk,
>> instead suggesting I look at some Apple Note which helpfully tells me how to
>> create a bootable USB stick from the app, but which also refuses to allow the
>> boot disk to be "downgraded".
>>
>> Wih Apple Silicon, is it no longer possible to get back to the OS this machine
>> was purchased with (Big Sur), and then move forward?
>
> I suspect it can be done with Apple Configurator and the appropriate .ipsw
> file. But you would need to use a another Mac running Configurator with a copy
> of the ipsw file on it and connected to the M1 Mini via a suitable USB cable.
> There's probably info about this by doing a bit of googling. ipsw files for
> recent macOS versions can be obtained from the mrmacintosh.com site.

This may help - scroll down to the DFU Restore section.

<https://eclecticlight.co/2024/02/15/how-to-reinstall-the-current-version-of-macos-or-downgrade-it/>

--
Cheers, Alan

On 19 Mar 2024 at 21:51:53 GMT, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid>
wrote:

> On 2024-03-19, TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>> Installing Sonoma has destabilised Lightrom 5 on SWMBO's M1 Mini, thus
>> annoying her. So I look to replacing Sonoma with Monterey, which runs nicely
>> on our 2014 Mini used as a file server. A quick test of LR5 appears to show
>> that it runs on Monterey.
>>
>> But Apple appears to have decided to be witty about "downgrading". I ran
>> "Install macOS Monterey.app" and it won't install on the Sonoma boot disk,
>> instead suggesting I look at some Apple Note which helpfully tells me how to
>> create a bootable USB stick from the app, but which also refuses to allow the
>> boot disk to be "downgraded".
>>
>> Wih Apple Silicon, is it no longer possible to get back to the OS this machine
>> was purchased with (Big Sur), and then move forward?
>
> I suspect it can be done with Apple Configurator and the appropriate .ipsw
> file. But you would need to use a another Mac running Configurator with a copy
> of the ipsw file on it and connected to the M1 Mini via a suitable USB cable.
> There's probably info about this by doing a bit of googling. ipsw files for
> recent macOS versions can be obtained from the mrmacintosh.com site.

AFAICT, this involves erasing the disk and then having to restore the user
files from a backup. Not a route I wish to risk.

--
Tim

TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
> On 19 Mar 2024 at 21:51:53 GMT, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2024-03-19, TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>>> Installing Sonoma has destabilised Lightrom 5 on SWMBO's M1 Mini, thus
>>> annoying her. So I look to replacing Sonoma with Monterey, which runs nicely
>>> on our 2014 Mini used as a file server. A quick test of LR5 appears to show
>>> that it runs on Monterey.
>>>
>>> But Apple appears to have decided to be witty about "downgrading". I ran
>>> "Install macOS Monterey.app" and it won't install on the Sonoma boot disk,
>>> instead suggesting I look at some Apple Note which helpfully tells me how to
>>> create a bootable USB stick from the app, but which also refuses to allow the
>>> boot disk to be "downgraded".
>>>
>>> Wih Apple Silicon, is it no longer possible to get back to the OS this machine
>>> was purchased with (Big Sur), and then move forward?
>>
>> I suspect it can be done with Apple Configurator and the appropriate .ipsw
>> file. But you would need to use a another Mac running Configurator with a copy
>> of the ipsw file on it and connected to the M1 Mini via a suitable USB cable.
>> There's probably info about this by doing a bit of googling. ipsw files for
>> recent macOS versions can be obtained from the mrmacintosh.com site.
>
> AFAICT, this involves erasing the disk and then having to restore the user
> files from a backup. Not a route I wish to risk.

Fair enough. Incidentally I keep 2 backups: TM & CCC - just in case ……

--
Cheers, Alan

On 20 Mar 2024 at 09:49:50 GMT, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid>
wrote:

> TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>> On 19 Mar 2024 at 21:51:53 GMT, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-03-19, TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>>>> Installing Sonoma has destabilised Lightrom 5 on SWMBO's M1 Mini, thus
>>>> annoying her. So I look to replacing Sonoma with Monterey, which runs nicely
>>>> on our 2014 Mini used as a file server. A quick test of LR5 appears to show
>>>> that it runs on Monterey.
>>>>
>>>> But Apple appears to have decided to be witty about "downgrading". I ran
>>>> "Install macOS Monterey.app" and it won't install on the Sonoma boot disk,
>>>> instead suggesting I look at some Apple Note which helpfully tells me how to
>>>> create a bootable USB stick from the app, but which also refuses to allow the
>>>> boot disk to be "downgraded".
>>>>
>>>> Wih Apple Silicon, is it no longer possible to get back to the OS this machine
>>>> was purchased with (Big Sur), and then move forward?
>>>
>>> I suspect it can be done with Apple Configurator and the appropriate .ipsw
>>> file. But you would need to use a another Mac running Configurator with a copy
>>> of the ipsw file on it and connected to the M1 Mini via a suitable USB cable.
>>> There's probably info about this by doing a bit of googling. ipsw files for
>>> recent macOS versions can be obtained from the mrmacintosh.com site.
>>
>> AFAICT, this involves erasing the disk and then having to restore the user
>> files from a backup. Not a route I wish to risk.
>
> Fair enough. Incidentally I keep 2 backups: TM & CCC - just in case ……

Thanks for the pointers though. It's disappointing - 20 years of seemingly
just being able to install a different OS version on a whim, with user files
being there before and after, and now this comes along. I'll have a look at
GraphicConverter and see if we can get along with that.

SWMBO's M1 came with Big Sur, but before buying that I got the last flavour of
intel Mini because it had more ports, and struggled with trying to move that
from Big Sur to Mojave. Gave up on that and bought the M1 Mini, which had
enough ports for SWMBO's use, but I could never get TM working on it, so ended
up buying CCC.

--
Tim

On 2024-03-20, TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:

[snip]

> SWMBO's M1 came with Big Sur, but before buying that I got the last flavour of
> intel Mini because it had more ports, and struggled with trying to move that
> from Big Sur to Mojave. Gave up on that and bought the M1 Mini, which had
> enough ports for SWMBO's use, but I could never get TM working on it, so ended
> up buying CCC.

No TM problems with Sonoma providing I use directly connected drives. But trying
to write to a NAS over WiFi is a different story. I won't bore you with the
details though!

--
Cheers, Alan

On 20 Mar 2024 at 11:36:50 am GMT, "Alan B"
<alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

> On 2024-03-20, TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> SWMBO's M1 came with Big Sur, but before buying that I got the last flavour of
>> intel Mini because it had more ports, and struggled with trying to move that
>> from Big Sur to Mojave. Gave up on that and bought the M1 Mini, which had
>> enough ports for SWMBO's use, but I could never get TM working on it, so ended
>> up buying CCC.
>
> No TM problems with Sonoma providing I use directly connected drives. But
> trying
> to write to a NAS over WiFi is a different story. I won't bore you with the
> details though!

ISTR both CCC and SuperDuper seem to strongly discourage backing up to a NAS
these days. Which is a pain.
--
TimH
pull tooth to reply by email

On 2024-03-20, TimH <thnews@poboxmolar.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 20 Mar 2024 at 11:36:50 am GMT, "Alan B"
><alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2024-03-20, TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> SWMBO's M1 came with Big Sur, but before buying that I got the last flavour of
>>> intel Mini because it had more ports, and struggled with trying to move that
>>> from Big Sur to Mojave. Gave up on that and bought the M1 Mini, which had
>>> enough ports for SWMBO's use, but I could never get TM working on it, so ended
>>> up buying CCC.
>>
>> No TM problems with Sonoma providing I use directly connected drives. But
>> trying
>> to write to a NAS over WiFi is a different story. I won't bore you with the
>> details though!
>
> ISTR both CCC and SuperDuper seem to strongly discourage backing up to a NAS
> these days. Which is a pain.

Yes I've seen Mike Bombich's views on that but my CCC drive is also directly
connected via USB cable anyway.

--
Cheers, Alan

On 20 Mar 2024 at 11:48:38 GMT, "TimH" <thnews@poboxmolar.com.invalid> wrote:

> On 20 Mar 2024 at 11:36:50 am GMT, "Alan B"
> <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2024-03-20, TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> SWMBO's M1 came with Big Sur, but before buying that I got the last flavour of
>>> intel Mini because it had more ports, and struggled with trying to move that
>>> from Big Sur to Mojave. Gave up on that and bought the M1 Mini, which had
>>> enough ports for SWMBO's use, but I could never get TM working on it, so ended
>>> up buying CCC.
>>
>> No TM problems with Sonoma providing I use directly connected drives. But
>> trying
>> to write to a NAS over WiFi is a different story. I won't bore you with the
>> details though!
>
> ISTR both CCC and SuperDuper seem to strongly discourage backing up to a NAS
> these days. Which is a pain.

You'll hear the same on the SQLite Forum, whereon I lurk. A good way to
corrupt an SQLite database is to put it on network storage, because network
files systems claim that data has been written to the remote disk, but to get
performance they lie about that, in fact, it hasn't.

--
Tim

On 20 Mar 2024 at 11:22:52 GMT, "TimS" <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:

> On 20 Mar 2024 at 09:49:50 GMT, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>>> On 19 Mar 2024 at 21:51:53 GMT, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-03-19, TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>> Installing Sonoma has destabilised Lightrom 5 on SWMBO's M1 Mini, thus
>>>>> annoying her. So I look to replacing Sonoma with Monterey, which runs nicely
>>>>> on our 2014 Mini used as a file server. A quick test of LR5 appears to show
>>>>> that it runs on Monterey.
>>>>>
>>>>> But Apple appears to have decided to be witty about "downgrading". I ran
>>>>> "Install macOS Monterey.app" and it won't install on the Sonoma boot disk,
>>>>> instead suggesting I look at some Apple Note which helpfully tells me how to
>>>>> create a bootable USB stick from the app, but which also refuses to allow the
>>>>> boot disk to be "downgraded".
>>>>>
>>>>> Wih Apple Silicon, is it no longer possible to get back to the OS this machine
>>>>> was purchased with (Big Sur), and then move forward?
>>>>
>>>> I suspect it can be done with Apple Configurator and the appropriate .ipsw
>>>> file. But you would need to use a another Mac running Configurator with a copy
>>>> of the ipsw file on it and connected to the M1 Mini via a suitable USB cable.
>>>> There's probably info about this by doing a bit of googling. ipsw files for
>>>> recent macOS versions can be obtained from the mrmacintosh.com site.
>>>
>>> AFAICT, this involves erasing the disk and then having to restore the user
>>> files from a backup. Not a route I wish to risk.
>>
>> Fair enough. Incidentally I keep 2 backups: TM & CCC - just in case ……
>
> Thanks for the pointers though. It's disappointing - 20 years of seemingly
> just being able to install a different OS version on a whim, with user files
> being there before and after, and now this comes along. I'll have a look at
> GraphicConverter and see if we can get along with that.
>
> SWMBO's M1 came with Big Sur, but before buying that I got the last flavour of
> intel Mini because it had more ports, and struggled with trying to move that
> from Big Sur to Mojave. Gave up on that and bought the M1 Mini, which had
> enough ports for SWMBO's use, but I could never get TM working on it, so ended
> up buying CCC.

I have no knowledge of Lightroom, but I've used GraphicConverter for years. It
has become an extremely powerful app, far beyond its original objective of
converting between media formats.

What's more, it still actively maintained and updated. I'm on the beta stream
and get an update every week or so. And when I've occasionally had a problem,
Thorsten has either advised me what to do or fixed it quickly - often within
48 hours.

Perhaps I should add that I'm in no way a media expert and only use a tiny
fraction of GC's capabilities As such, I recommend joining the GC Forum.

Old John.

--
Frustra fit per plura, quod potest fieri per pauciora - William of Occam.

John Hill <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 20 Mar 2024 at 11:22:52 GMT, "TimS" <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 20 Mar 2024 at 09:49:50 GMT, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 19 Mar 2024 at 21:51:53 GMT, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2024-03-19, TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> Installing Sonoma has destabilised Lightrom 5 on SWMBO's M1 Mini, thus
>>>>>> annoying her. So I look to replacing Sonoma with Monterey, which runs nicely
>>>>>> on our 2014 Mini used as a file server. A quick test of LR5 appears to show
>>>>>> that it runs on Monterey.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But Apple appears to have decided to be witty about "downgrading". I ran
>>>>>> "Install macOS Monterey.app" and it won't install on the Sonoma boot disk,
>>>>>> instead suggesting I look at some Apple Note which helpfully tells me how to
>>>>>> create a bootable USB stick from the app, but which also refuses to allow the
>>>>>> boot disk to be "downgraded".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wih Apple Silicon, is it no longer possible to get back to the OS this machine
>>>>>> was purchased with (Big Sur), and then move forward?
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect it can be done with Apple Configurator and the appropriate .ipsw
>>>>> file. But you would need to use a another Mac running Configurator with a copy
>>>>> of the ipsw file on it and connected to the M1 Mini via a suitable USB cable.
>>>>> There's probably info about this by doing a bit of googling. ipsw files for
>>>>> recent macOS versions can be obtained from the mrmacintosh.com site.
>>>>
>>>> AFAICT, this involves erasing the disk and then having to restore the user
>>>> files from a backup. Not a route I wish to risk.
>>>
>>> Fair enough. Incidentally I keep 2 backups: TM & CCC - just in case ……
>>
>> Thanks for the pointers though. It's disappointing - 20 years of seemingly
>> just being able to install a different OS version on a whim, with user files
>> being there before and after, and now this comes along. I'll have a look at
>> GraphicConverter and see if we can get along with that.
>>
>> SWMBO's M1 came with Big Sur, but before buying that I got the last flavour of
>> intel Mini because it had more ports, and struggled with trying to move that
>> from Big Sur to Mojave. Gave up on that and bought the M1 Mini, which had
>> enough ports for SWMBO's use, but I could never get TM working on it, so ended
>> up buying CCC.
>
> I have no knowledge of Lightroom, but I've used GraphicConverter for years. It
> has become an extremely powerful app, far beyond its original objective of
> converting between media formats.
>
> What's more, it still actively maintained and updated. I'm on the beta stream
> and get an update every week or so. And when I've occasionally had a problem,
> Thorsten has either advised me what to do or fixed it quickly - often within
> 48 hours.
>
> Perhaps I should add that I'm in no way a media expert and only use a tiny
> fraction of GC's capabilities As such, I recommend joining the GC Forum.

Been there, done that. Excellent product (and forum).

--
Cheers, Alan

On 21 Mar 2024 at 08:57:27 GMT, "John Hill" <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> On 20 Mar 2024 at 11:22:52 GMT, "TimS" <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 20 Mar 2024 at 09:49:50 GMT, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 19 Mar 2024 at 21:51:53 GMT, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2024-03-19, TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> Installing Sonoma has destabilised Lightrom 5 on SWMBO's M1 Mini, thus
>>>>>> annoying her. So I look to replacing Sonoma with Monterey, which runs nicely
>>>>>> on our 2014 Mini used as a file server. A quick test of LR5 appears to show
>>>>>> that it runs on Monterey.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But Apple appears to have decided to be witty about "downgrading". I ran
>>>>>> "Install macOS Monterey.app" and it won't install on the Sonoma boot disk,
>>>>>> instead suggesting I look at some Apple Note which helpfully tells me how to
>>>>>> create a bootable USB stick from the app, but which also refuses to allow the
>>>>>> boot disk to be "downgraded".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wih Apple Silicon, is it no longer possible to get back to the OS this machine
>>>>>> was purchased with (Big Sur), and then move forward?
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect it can be done with Apple Configurator and the appropriate .ipsw
>>>>> file. But you would need to use a another Mac running Configurator with a copy
>>>>> of the ipsw file on it and connected to the M1 Mini via a suitable USB cable.
>>>>> There's probably info about this by doing a bit of googling. ipsw files for
>>>>> recent macOS versions can be obtained from the mrmacintosh.com site.
>>>>
>>>> AFAICT, this involves erasing the disk and then having to restore the user
>>>> files from a backup. Not a route I wish to risk.
>>>
>>> Fair enough. Incidentally I keep 2 backups: TM & CCC - just in case ……
>>
>> Thanks for the pointers though. It's disappointing - 20 years of seemingly
>> just being able to install a different OS version on a whim, with user files
>> being there before and after, and now this comes along. I'll have a look at
>> GraphicConverter and see if we can get along with that.
>>
>> SWMBO's M1 came with Big Sur, but before buying that I got the last flavour of
>> intel Mini because it had more ports, and struggled with trying to move that
>> from Big Sur to Mojave. Gave up on that and bought the M1 Mini, which had
>> enough ports for SWMBO's use, but I could never get TM working on it, so ended
>> up buying CCC.
>
> I have no knowledge of Lightroom, but I've used GraphicConverter for years. It
> has become an extremely powerful app, far beyond its original objective of
> converting between media formats.

After spending some minutes poking through GC, I couldn't find any sign of
being able to select (from a list) which lens had been used to take the
picture, and then request that GC remove chromatic aberration and distortion
(such as pin cushion etc) from the image. In practice, in LR, I do that and
then having adjusted the light level, pretty much leave it at that.

--
Tim

On 21 Mar 2024 at 09:29:06 GMT, "TimS" <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:

> On 21 Mar 2024 at 08:57:27 GMT, "John Hill" <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 20 Mar 2024 at 11:22:52 GMT, "TimS" <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 20 Mar 2024 at 09:49:50 GMT, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 19 Mar 2024 at 21:51:53 GMT, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2024-03-19, TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> Installing Sonoma has destabilised Lightrom 5 on SWMBO's M1 Mini, thus
>>>>>>> annoying her. So I look to replacing Sonoma with Monterey, which runs nicely
>>>>>>> on our 2014 Mini used as a file server. A quick test of LR5 appears to show
>>>>>>> that it runs on Monterey.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But Apple appears to have decided to be witty about "downgrading". I ran
>>>>>>> "Install macOS Monterey.app" and it won't install on the Sonoma boot disk,
>>>>>>> instead suggesting I look at some Apple Note which helpfully tells me how to
>>>>>>> create a bootable USB stick from the app, but which also refuses to allow the
>>>>>>> boot disk to be "downgraded".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wih Apple Silicon, is it no longer possible to get back to the OS this machine
>>>>>>> was purchased with (Big Sur), and then move forward?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suspect it can be done with Apple Configurator and the appropriate .ipsw
>>>>>> file. But you would need to use a another Mac running Configurator with a copy
>>>>>> of the ipsw file on it and connected to the M1 Mini via a suitable USB cable.
>>>>>> There's probably info about this by doing a bit of googling. ipsw files for
>>>>>> recent macOS versions can be obtained from the mrmacintosh.com site.
>>>>>
>>>>> AFAICT, this involves erasing the disk and then having to restore the user
>>>>> files from a backup. Not a route I wish to risk.
>>>>
>>>> Fair enough. Incidentally I keep 2 backups: TM & CCC - just in case ……
>>>
>>> Thanks for the pointers though. It's disappointing - 20 years of seemingly
>>> just being able to install a different OS version on a whim, with user files
>>> being there before and after, and now this comes along. I'll have a look at
>>> GraphicConverter and see if we can get along with that.
>>>
>>> SWMBO's M1 came with Big Sur, but before buying that I got the last flavour of
>>> intel Mini because it had more ports, and struggled with trying to move that
>>> from Big Sur to Mojave. Gave up on that and bought the M1 Mini, which had
>>> enough ports for SWMBO's use, but I could never get TM working on it, so ended
>>> up buying CCC.
>>
>> I have no knowledge of Lightroom, but I've used GraphicConverter for years. It
>> has become an extremely powerful app, far beyond its original objective of
>> converting between media formats.
>
> After spending some minutes poking through GC, I couldn't find any sign of
> being able to select (from a list) which lens had been used to take the
> picture, and then request that GC remove chromatic aberration and distortion
> (such as pin cushion etc) from the image. In practice, in LR, I do that and
> then having adjusted the light level, pretty much leave it at that.

Did you look in the bar under a picture, and click the "i" icon? Lots of
information there. Whether or not it includes what you want, that I don't
know.

Old John.
--
An infinitely complex system can fail in an infinite number of ways.

On 21 Mar 2024 at 09:29:06 GMT, "TimS" <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:

> On 21 Mar 2024 at 08:57:27 GMT, "John Hill" <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 20 Mar 2024 at 11:22:52 GMT, "TimS" <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 20 Mar 2024 at 09:49:50 GMT, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 19 Mar 2024 at 21:51:53 GMT, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2024-03-19, TimS <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> Installing Sonoma has destabilised Lightrom 5 on SWMBO's M1 Mini, thus
>>>>>>> annoying her. So I look to replacing Sonoma with Monterey, which runs nicely
>>>>>>> on our 2014 Mini used as a file server. A quick test of LR5 appears to show
>>>>>>> that it runs on Monterey.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But Apple appears to have decided to be witty about "downgrading". I ran
>>>>>>> "Install macOS Monterey.app" and it won't install on the Sonoma boot disk,
>>>>>>> instead suggesting I look at some Apple Note which helpfully tells me how to
>>>>>>> create a bootable USB stick from the app, but which also refuses to allow the
>>>>>>> boot disk to be "downgraded".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wih Apple Silicon, is it no longer possible to get back to the OS this machine
>>>>>>> was purchased with (Big Sur), and then move forward?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suspect it can be done with Apple Configurator and the appropriate .ipsw
>>>>>> file. But you would need to use a another Mac running Configurator with a copy
>>>>>> of the ipsw file on it and connected to the M1 Mini via a suitable USB cable.
>>>>>> There's probably info about this by doing a bit of googling. ipsw files for
>>>>>> recent macOS versions can be obtained from the mrmacintosh.com site.
>>>>>
>>>>> AFAICT, this involves erasing the disk and then having to restore the user
>>>>> files from a backup. Not a route I wish to risk.
>>>>
>>>> Fair enough. Incidentally I keep 2 backups: TM & CCC - just in case ……
>>>
>>> Thanks for the pointers though. It's disappointing - 20 years of seemingly
>>> just being able to install a different OS version on a whim, with user files
>>> being there before and after, and now this comes along. I'll have a look at
>>> GraphicConverter and see if we can get along with that.
>>>
>>> SWMBO's M1 came with Big Sur, but before buying that I got the last flavour of
>>> intel Mini because it had more ports, and struggled with trying to move that
>>> from Big Sur to Mojave. Gave up on that and bought the M1 Mini, which had
>>> enough ports for SWMBO's use, but I could never get TM working on it, so ended
>>> up buying CCC.
>>
>> I have no knowledge of Lightroom, but I've used GraphicConverter for years. It
>> has become an extremely powerful app, far beyond its original objective of
>> converting between media formats.
>
> After spending some minutes poking through GC, I couldn't find any sign of
> being able to select (from a list) which lens had been used to take the
> picture, and then request that GC remove chromatic aberration and distortion
> (such as pin cushion etc) from the image. In practice, in LR, I do that and
> then having adjusted the light level, pretty much leave it at that.

Maybe Effect / Lens Geometry / Lens Correction is what you want?
--
God made the integers; all else is the work of man.

On 22 Mar 2024 at 09:24:52 GMT, "John Hill" <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> On 21 Mar 2024 at 09:29:06 GMT, "TimS" <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 21 Mar 2024 at 08:57:27 GMT, "John Hill" <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>>> I have no knowledge of Lightroom, but I've used GraphicConverter for years. It
>>> has become an extremely powerful app, far beyond its original objective of
>>> converting between media formats.
>>
>> After spending some minutes poking through GC, I couldn't find any sign of
>> being able to select (from a list) which lens had been used to take the
>> picture, and then request that GC remove chromatic aberration and distortion
>> (such as pin cushion etc) from the image. In practice, in LR, I do that and
>> then having adjusted the light level, pretty much leave it at that.
>
> Did you look in the bar under a picture, and click the "i" icon? Lots of
> information there. Whether or not it includes what you want, that I don't
> know.

So GC starts up, and gives me a "Welcome to GraphicConverter 12" panel where I
can select to browse, or open a single image, etc. So I choose to open a
single image, navigate to it (IMGP0376.DNG on my Desktop) and click open. It
opens. However the bar under the picture has no "i" icon, just some buttons
which say Last Values, Cancel, Reset, OK.

> Maybe Effect / Lens Geometry / Lens Correction is what you want?

Unfortunately that menu says, at its top, "These items are only available in
an open image". Funny, that's exactly what I thought I had. Several menus say
that and all the items on them are disabled.

--
Tim

On 22 Mar 2024 at 18:48:39 GMT, "TimS" <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:

> On 22 Mar 2024 at 09:24:52 GMT, "John Hill" <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 21 Mar 2024 at 09:29:06 GMT, "TimS" <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 21 Mar 2024 at 08:57:27 GMT, "John Hill" <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>> I have no knowledge of Lightroom, but I've used GraphicConverter for years. It
>>>> has become an extremely powerful app, far beyond its original objective of
>>>> converting between media formats.
>>>
>>> After spending some minutes poking through GC, I couldn't find any sign of
>>> being able to select (from a list) which lens had been used to take the
>>> picture, and then request that GC remove chromatic aberration and distortion
>>> (such as pin cushion etc) from the image. In practice, in LR, I do that and
>>> then having adjusted the light level, pretty much leave it at that.
>>
>> Did you look in the bar under a picture, and click the "i" icon? Lots of
>> information there. Whether or not it includes what you want, that I don't
>> know.
>
> So GC starts up, and gives me a "Welcome to GraphicConverter 12" panel where I
> can select to browse, or open a single image, etc. So I choose to open a
> single image, navigate to it (IMGP0376.DNG on my Desktop) and click open. It
> opens. However the bar under the picture has no "i" icon, just some buttons
> which say Last Values, Cancel, Reset, OK.
>
>> Maybe Effect / Lens Geometry / Lens Correction is what you want?
>
> Unfortunately that menu says, at its top, "These items are only available in
> an open image". Funny, that's exactly what I thought I had. Several menus say
> that and all the items on them are disabled.

I am at a loss. Did you try other images?

I presume that you have not taken a licence out (and who's to blame you for
that? not me!); maybe these are disabled in an unlicenced copy? The site does
say "you can try our award-winning software with few restrictions". But what
you describe is not "few!

You could try emailing me an image so that I could see what happens in a
licenced copy - my address is valid.

Old John.

--
You're not an old dog until you can't learn new tricks.

On 23 Mar 2024 at 07:54:47 GMT, "John Hill" <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> On 22 Mar 2024 at 18:48:39 GMT, "TimS" <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 22 Mar 2024 at 09:24:52 GMT, "John Hill" <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 21 Mar 2024 at 09:29:06 GMT, "TimS" <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 21 Mar 2024 at 08:57:27 GMT, "John Hill" <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>>> I have no knowledge of Lightroom, but I've used GraphicConverter for years. It
>>>>> has become an extremely powerful app, far beyond its original objective of
>>>>> converting between media formats.
>>>>
>>>> After spending some minutes poking through GC, I couldn't find any sign of
>>>> being able to select (from a list) which lens had been used to take the
>>>> picture, and then request that GC remove chromatic aberration and distortion
>>>> (such as pin cushion etc) from the image. In practice, in LR, I do that and
>>>> then having adjusted the light level, pretty much leave it at that.
>>>
>>> Did you look in the bar under a picture, and click the "i" icon? Lots of
>>> information there. Whether or not it includes what you want, that I don't
>>> know.
>>
>> So GC starts up, and gives me a "Welcome to GraphicConverter 12" panel where I
>> can select to browse, or open a single image, etc. So I choose to open a
>> single image, navigate to it (IMGP0376.DNG on my Desktop) and click open. It
>> opens. However the bar under the picture has no "i" icon, just some buttons
>> which say Last Values, Cancel, Reset, OK.
>>
>>> Maybe Effect / Lens Geometry / Lens Correction is what you want?
>>
>> Unfortunately that menu says, at its top, "These items are only available in
>> an open image". Funny, that's exactly what I thought I had. Several menus say
>> that and all the items on them are disabled.
>
> I am at a loss. Did you try other images?
>
> I presume that you have not taken a licence out (and who's to blame you for
> that? not me!); maybe these are disabled in an unlicenced copy? The site does
> say "you can try our award-winning software with few restrictions". But what
> you describe is not "few!

Well it actually describes itself as Shareware. Usually shareware has no
practical limitations, because at least in the old days few shareware apps
bothered to implement a licence scheme. Some, though, said you could use all
features, but that things you print would have "unlicensed copy" as a
watermark. Or similar restriction: something which allows you to test every
feature to see if the product is for you or not.

I'm pursuing a couple of other avenues. I find I have a LR6 licence gifted by
a relly - unfortunately all links I've found so far that claim to allow
download of LR6 Classic seem to end up at Adobe, which no longer allows such
downloads.

Then I went through my Sonoma machine, looked in /Library and ~/Library for
all apparent LR support files in Application Support and Preferences, and
copied these over to my 2014 Mini fileserver running Monterey, and rather to
my surprise LR5 appears to run OK without asking for a key. (If it was me I'd
have mixed the licence key the user enters with the machine's MAC address and
store that.)

That machine only has 4Gbytes, but as it's not used for anything else, SWMBO
could screen-share to it and not notice the difference.

--
Tim

On 23/03/2024 07:54, John Hill wrote:
> On 22 Mar 2024 at 18:48:39 GMT, "TimS" <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 22 Mar 2024 at 09:24:52 GMT, "John Hill" <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 21 Mar 2024 at 09:29:06 GMT, "TimS" <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 21 Mar 2024 at 08:57:27 GMT, "John Hill" <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>>> I have no knowledge of Lightroom, but I've used GraphicConverter for years. It
>>>>> has become an extremely powerful app, far beyond its original objective of
>>>>> converting between media formats.
>>>>
>>>> After spending some minutes poking through GC, I couldn't find any sign of
>>>> being able to select (from a list) which lens had been used to take the
>>>> picture, and then request that GC remove chromatic aberration and distortion
>>>> (such as pin cushion etc) from the image. In practice, in LR, I do that and
>>>> then having adjusted the light level, pretty much leave it at that.
>>>
>>> Did you look in the bar under a picture, and click the "i" icon? Lots of
>>> information there. Whether or not it includes what you want, that I don't
>>> know.
>>
>> So GC starts up, and gives me a "Welcome to GraphicConverter 12" panel where I
>> can select to browse, or open a single image, etc. So I choose to open a
>> single image, navigate to it (IMGP0376.DNG on my Desktop) and click open. It
>> opens. However the bar under the picture has no "i" icon, just some buttons
>> which say Last Values, Cancel, Reset, OK.
>>
>>> Maybe Effect / Lens Geometry / Lens Correction is what you want?
>>
>> Unfortunately that menu says, at its top, "These items are only available in
>> an open image". Funny, that's exactly what I thought I had. Several menus say
>> that and all the items on them are disabled.
>
> I am at a loss. Did you try other images?
>
> I presume that you have not taken a licence out (and who's to blame you for
> that? not me!); maybe these are disabled in an unlicenced copy? The site does
> say "you can try our award-winning software with few restrictions". But what
> you describe is not "few!
>
> You could try emailing me an image so that I could see what happens in a
> licenced copy - my address is valid.
>
> Old John.
>

Tried to download a copy , I get the dmg, clicking on that produces a
drive icon on the desktop and that's as far as it gets. Click on that
and I get the splash screen saying drag GC icon to apps folder but no GC
icon.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 23 Mar 2024 at 13:47:00 GMT, "Graeme Wall" <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

> On 23/03/2024 07:54, John Hill wrote:
>> On 22 Mar 2024 at 18:48:39 GMT, "TimS" <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 22 Mar 2024 at 09:24:52 GMT, "John Hill" <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 21 Mar 2024 at 09:29:06 GMT, "TimS" <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 21 Mar 2024 at 08:57:27 GMT, "John Hill" <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> I have no knowledge of Lightroom, but I've used GraphicConverter for years. It
>>>>>> has become an extremely powerful app, far beyond its original objective of
>>>>>> converting between media formats.
>>>>>
>>>>> After spending some minutes poking through GC, I couldn't find any sign of
>>>>> being able to select (from a list) which lens had been used to take the
>>>>> picture, and then request that GC remove chromatic aberration and distortion
>>>>> (such as pin cushion etc) from the image. In practice, in LR, I do that and
>>>>> then having adjusted the light level, pretty much leave it at that.
>>>>
>>>> Did you look in the bar under a picture, and click the "i" icon? Lots of
>>>> information there. Whether or not it includes what you want, that I don't
>>>> know.
>>>
>>> So GC starts up, and gives me a "Welcome to GraphicConverter 12" panel where I
>>> can select to browse, or open a single image, etc. So I choose to open a
>>> single image, navigate to it (IMGP0376.DNG on my Desktop) and click open. It
>>> opens. However the bar under the picture has no "i" icon, just some buttons
>>> which say Last Values, Cancel, Reset, OK.
>>>
>>>> Maybe Effect / Lens Geometry / Lens Correction is what you want?
>>>
>>> Unfortunately that menu says, at its top, "These items are only available in
>>> an open image". Funny, that's exactly what I thought I had. Several menus say
>>> that and all the items on them are disabled.
>>
>> I am at a loss. Did you try other images?
>>
>> I presume that you have not taken a licence out (and who's to blame you for
>> that? not me!); maybe these are disabled in an unlicenced copy? The site does
>> say "you can try our award-winning software with few restrictions". But what
>> you describe is not "few!
>>
>> You could try emailing me an image so that I could see what happens in a
>> licenced copy - my address is valid.
>>
>> Old John.
>>
>
> Tried to download a copy , I get the dmg, clicking on that produces a
> drive icon on the desktop and that's as far as it gets. Click on that
> and I get the splash screen saying drag GC icon to apps folder but no GC
> icon.

Wierd! If I mount the .dmg I see on the left Graphic Converter in a large font
and underneath that the GC icon and an arrow towards an alias of the
Applications Folder. Under that again, instructions in eight languages.

0ne for you to take up with Thorsted, perhaps, at <support@lemkesoft.com>?

Old John.

--
An infinitely complex system can fail in an infinite number of ways.

On 24/03/2024 08:18, John Hill wrote:
[....]

>> Tried to download a copy , I get the dmg, clicking on that produces a
>> drive icon on the desktop and that's as far as it gets. Click on that
>> and I get the splash screen saying drag GC icon to apps folder but no GC
>> icon.
>
> Wierd! If I mount the .dmg I see on the left Graphic Converter in a large font
> and underneath that the GC icon and an arrow towards an alias of the
> Applications Folder. Under that again, instructions in eight languages.
>
> 0ne for you to take up with Thorsted, perhaps, at <support@lemkesoft.com>?

Maybe this would help, Old John?

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/102646

On 24/03/2024 08:18, John Hill wrote:
> On 23 Mar 2024 at 13:47:00 GMT, "Graeme Wall" <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> On 23/03/2024 07:54, John Hill wrote:
>>> On 22 Mar 2024 at 18:48:39 GMT, "TimS" <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 22 Mar 2024 at 09:24:52 GMT, "John Hill" <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 21 Mar 2024 at 09:29:06 GMT, "TimS" <tim@streater.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 21 Mar 2024 at 08:57:27 GMT, "John Hill" <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> I have no knowledge of Lightroom, but I've used GraphicConverter for years. It
>>>>>>> has become an extremely powerful app, far beyond its original objective of
>>>>>>> converting between media formats.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After spending some minutes poking through GC, I couldn't find any sign of
>>>>>> being able to select (from a list) which lens had been used to take the
>>>>>> picture, and then request that GC remove chromatic aberration and distortion
>>>>>> (such as pin cushion etc) from the image. In practice, in LR, I do that and
>>>>>> then having adjusted the light level, pretty much leave it at that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Did you look in the bar under a picture, and click the "i" icon? Lots of
>>>>> information there. Whether or not it includes what you want, that I don't
>>>>> know.
>>>>
>>>> So GC starts up, and gives me a "Welcome to GraphicConverter 12" panel where I
>>>> can select to browse, or open a single image, etc. So I choose to open a
>>>> single image, navigate to it (IMGP0376.DNG on my Desktop) and click open. It
>>>> opens. However the bar under the picture has no "i" icon, just some buttons
>>>> which say Last Values, Cancel, Reset, OK.
>>>>
>>>>> Maybe Effect / Lens Geometry / Lens Correction is what you want?
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately that menu says, at its top, "These items are only available in
>>>> an open image". Funny, that's exactly what I thought I had. Several menus say
>>>> that and all the items on them are disabled.
>>>
>>> I am at a loss. Did you try other images?
>>>
>>> I presume that you have not taken a licence out (and who's to blame you for
>>> that? not me!); maybe these are disabled in an unlicenced copy? The site does
>>> say "you can try our award-winning software with few restrictions". But what
>>> you describe is not "few!
>>>
>>> You could try emailing me an image so that I could see what happens in a
>>> licenced copy - my address is valid.
>>>
>>> Old John.
>>>
>>
>> Tried to download a copy , I get the dmg, clicking on that produces a
>> drive icon on the desktop and that's as far as it gets. Click on that
>> and I get the splash screen saying drag GC icon to apps folder but no GC
>> icon.
>
> Wierd! If I mount the .dmg I see on the left Graphic Converter in a large font
> and underneath that the GC icon and an arrow towards an alias of the
> Applications Folder. Under that again, instructions in eight languages.
>
> 0ne for you to take up with Thorsted, perhaps, at <support@lemkesoft.com>?
>

I'll try shutting evrything down and start again from scratch in case
something else was interfering.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

John Hill <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 23 Mar 2024 at 13:47:00 GMT, "Graeme Wall" <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>

[snip]

>> Tried to download a copy , I get the dmg, clicking on that produces a
>> drive icon on the desktop and that's as far as it gets. Click on that
>> and I get the splash screen saying drag GC icon to apps folder but no GC
>> icon.
>
> Wierd! If I mount the .dmg I see on the left Graphic Converter in a large font
> and underneath that the GC icon and an arrow towards an alias of the
> Applications Folder. Under that again, instructions in eight languages.
>
> 0ne for you to take up with Thorsted, perhaps, at <support@lemkesoft.com>?

Yesterday I upgraded GC to a family license so that I could install it on
my Intel Mac. This obviously involved downloading a fresh copy of GC 12
from Lemkesoft. Absolutely no problems with mounting the dmg and the drag
and drop installation seen. As you say, one for Lemkesoft support or its
forum.

--
Cheers, Alan

On 24/03/2024 09:03, Alan B wrote:
> John Hill <watcombeman@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 23 Mar 2024 at 13:47:00 GMT, "Graeme Wall" <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk>
>
> [snip]
>
>>> Tried to download a copy , I get the dmg, clicking on that produces a
>>> drive icon on the desktop and that's as far as it gets. Click on that
>>> and I get the splash screen saying drag GC icon to apps folder but no GC
>>> icon.
>>
>> Wierd! If I mount the .dmg I see on the left Graphic Converter in a large font
>> and underneath that the GC icon and an arrow towards an alias of the
>> Applications Folder. Under that again, instructions in eight languages.
>>
>> 0ne for you to take up with Thorsted, perhaps, at <support@lemkesoft.com>?
>
> Yesterday I upgraded GC to a family license so that I could install it on
> my Intel Mac. This obviously involved downloading a fresh copy of GC 12
> from Lemkesoft. Absolutely no problems with mounting the dmg and the drag
> and drop installation seen. As you say, one for Lemkesoft support or its
> forum.
>

Just tried it after a reboot of the computer and it worked perfectly! I
suspect finger trouble!

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.