Wofe had bought six new rose plants (bare rooted) and has been _trying_
to plant them near a large silver birch[1].
She decided where she wanted each one, and started to dig a hole...
Large tree root.
She moved to one side and tried again.
Another tree root and a girt big rock.
Rinse and repeat for some time.

I strongly believe there would be a good market for a hand-held ground
penetrating radar which could identify obstacles like roots or large
rocks _before_ you expend so much energy (and backache) digging the hole.

[1] The roses are intended as a cat-deterrent[2]. We have bird feeders
hanging from the branches of this tree and a neighbours cat likes to
lurk under a bush,
From there it can leap up high enough to snatch a bird out of the air.
The roses are meant to occupy the cat's launching site.

[2] The fact that these are pretty roses is entirely incidental.

--
Sam Plusnet

In message <XtztN.73790$c1y8.27546@fx15.ams1> at Sun, 28 Jan 2024
21:15:35, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> writes
>Wofe had bought six new rose plants (bare rooted) and has been _trying_
>to plant them near a large silver birch[1].
>She decided where she wanted each one, and started to dig a hole...
>Large tree root.
>She moved to one side and tried again.
>Another tree root and a girt big rock.
>Rinse and repeat for some time.
>
>I strongly believe there would be a good market for a hand-held ground
>penetrating radar which could identify obstacles like roots or large
>rocks _before_ you expend so much energy (and backache) digging the hole.

Given that such equipment would be moderately complex, and also has to
be pretty robust, I suspect the cost would be such that the market size
wouldn't be that great - might be something gardening clubs could
afford, or there might be a hire market.

Your local archaeological/history/metal-detecting association might be
able to point you at a suitable source - or, of course, your local
plods, though I doubt the last would be willing to lend you theirs!
>
>[1] The roses are intended as a cat-deterrent[2]. We have bird feeders
>hanging from the branches of this tree and a neighbours cat likes to
>lurk under a bush,
>From there it can leap up high enough to snatch a bird out of the air.
>The roses are meant to occupy the cat's launching site.
>
>[2] The fact that these are pretty roses is entirely incidental.
>
(-:

Local gardening club (or GWT, or UMRA) might be able to suggest some
suitable plant that doesn't require so much rootspace digging.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Of course, this show - like every other cop show on earth - massively
overstates the prevalence of violent crime: last year, in the whole of the UK,
police fired their weapons just three times. And there were precisely zero
fatalities. - Vincent Graff in RT, 2014/11/8-14

J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> In message <XtztN.73790$c1y8.27546@fx15.ams1> at Sun, 28 Jan 2024
> 21:15:35, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> writes
>> Wofe had bought six new rose plants (bare rooted) and has been _trying_
>> to plant them near a large silver birch[1].
>> She decided where she wanted each one, and started to dig a hole...
>> Large tree root.
>> She moved to one side and tried again.
>> Another tree root and a girt big rock.
>> Rinse and repeat for some time.
>>
>> I strongly believe there would be a good market for a hand-held ground
>> penetrating radar which could identify obstacles like roots or large
>> rocks _before_ you expend so much energy (and backache) digging the hole.
>
> Given that such equipment would be moderately complex, and also has to
> be pretty robust, I suspect the cost would be such that the market size
> wouldn't be that great - might be something gardening clubs could
> afford, or there might be a hire market.
>
> Your local archaeological/history/metal-detecting association might be
> able to point you at a suitable source - or, of course, your local
> plods, though I doubt the last would be willing to lend you theirs!
>>
>> [1] The roses are intended as a cat-deterrent[2]. We have bird feeders
>> hanging from the branches of this tree and a neighbours cat likes to
>> lurk under a bush,
>> From there it can leap up high enough to snatch a bird out of the air.
>> The roses are meant to occupy the cat's launching site.
>>
>> [2] The fact that these are pretty roses is entirely incidental.
>>
> (-:
>
> Local gardening club (or GWT, or UMRA) might be able to suggest some
> suitable plant that doesn't require so much rootspace digging.

How about a Triffid, wouldn’t that deter the cat? You could contain it in
the garden with a strong chain and a stake into the err ….. oh! AYW…

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

On 28/01/2024 21:15, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> Wofe had bought six new rose plants (bare rooted) and has been _trying_
> to plant them near a large silver birch[1].
> She decided where she wanted each one, and started to dig a hole...
> Large tree root.
> She moved to one side and tried again.
> Another tree root and a girt big rock.
> Rinse and repeat for some time.
>
> I strongly believe there would be a good market for a hand-held ground
> penetrating radar which could identify obstacles like roots or large
> rocks _before_ you expend so much energy (and backache) digging the hole.
>
> [1] The roses are intended as a cat-deterrent[2].  We have bird feeders
> hanging from the branches of this tree and a neighbours cat likes to
> lurk under a bush,
> From there it can leap up high enough to snatch a bird out of the air.
> The roses are meant to occupy the cat's launching site.
>
> [2] The fact that these are pretty roses is entirely incidental.
>

You can buy a 1 metre long 10mm masonry bit for less than fifteen of
your English pounds. Ideal for detecting buried services too.

--
Cheers
Clive

On Sun, 28 Jan 2024 21:15:35 +0000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

>Wofe had bought six new rose plants (bare rooted) and has been _trying_
>to plant them near a large silver birch[1].
>She decided where she wanted each one, and started to dig a hole...
>Large tree root.
>She moved to one side and tried again.
>Another tree root and a girt big rock.
>Rinse and repeat for some time.
>
>I strongly believe there would be a good market for a hand-held ground
>penetrating radar which could identify obstacles like roots or large
>rocks _before_ you expend so much energy (and backache) digging the hole.
>
>[1] The roses are intended as a cat-deterrent[2]. We have bird feeders
>hanging from the branches of this tree and a neighbours cat likes to
>lurk under a bush,
> From there it can leap up high enough to snatch a bird out of the air.
>The roses are meant to occupy the cat's launching site.
>
>[2] The fact that these are pretty roses is entirely incidental.

My next door neighbour has solved her cat-in-the-garden problem with a
motion-detecting[1] hosepipe and although roses look pretty, I don't
think they will achieve anything other than looking pretty.

Now, this silver birch. Unlike -say- tall, thin trees which bore deep
down for their water supplies, the silver birch has its roots spread
out far and wide in a tangled mess, all near the surface. From years
of not paying proper attention to Gardeners Question Time, my guess is
that, even if you do manage to find a gap[2] between the roots, big
enough to plant a rose the roses aren't going to thrive because the
tree is going to suck all the water away.

Nick
[1]Don't... Just don't.
[2]Divining rods?? Just a thought

In message <up7ue2$dsk7$1@dont-email.me> at Mon, 29 Jan 2024 10:25:05,
Clive Arthur <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> writes
[]
>You can buy a 1 metre long 10mm masonry bit for less than fifteen of
>your English pounds. Ideal for detecting buried services too.
>
I suspect "detecting" buried services that way would not go down (!)
well with their owners, unless you're suggesting just using it as a
handheld probe, in which case just a spike would be cheaper and I
presume Sam's wofe has already considered that method.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Radio 4 is one of the reasons being British is good. It's not a subset of
Britain - it's almost as if Britain is a subset of Radio 4. - Stephen Fry, in
Radio Times, 7-13 June, 2003.

In message <aaafrih1vpkjj39abp3mik9k225sa1nocb@4ax.com> at Mon, 29 Jan
2024 14:09:35, Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> writes
[]
>My next door neighbour has solved her cat-in-the-garden problem with a
>motion-detecting[1] hosepipe and although roses look pretty, I don't
>think they will achieve anything other than looking pretty.
[]
>[1]Don't... Just don't.
[]
Assuming the detector turns on and off the flow, sounds very effective,
but also complex (and thus expensive). Or was the "Don't ..." supposed
to apply to even asking about it?
--
J. P. Gilliver

What do archaeologists use to look below the surface?

How do archaeologists look underground for non-metal things?

On 29-Jan-24 1:52, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <XtztN.73790$c1y8.27546@fx15.ams1> at Sun, 28 Jan 2024
> 21:15:35, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> writes

>> [2] The fact that these are pretty roses is entirely incidental.
>>
> (-:
>
> Local gardening club (or GWT, or UMRA) might be able to suggest some
> suitable plant that doesn't require so much rootspace digging.

Nay Lad. As anyone will tell you, you should plant a one shilling plant
in a ten shilling hole.

(Yes this is a very old saying, but it means you should always be most
generous when digging a planting hole. Scrimping on the hole seldom
pays in the long run.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 29-Jan-24 10:25, Clive Arthur wrote:
> On 28/01/2024 21:15, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> Wofe had bought six new rose plants (bare rooted) and has been
>> _trying_ to plant them near a large silver birch[1].
>> She decided where she wanted each one, and started to dig a hole...
>> Large tree root.
>> She moved to one side and tried again.
>> Another tree root and a girt big rock.
>> Rinse and repeat for some time.
>>
>> I strongly believe there would be a good market for a hand-held ground
>> penetrating radar which could identify obstacles like roots or large
>> rocks _before_ you expend so much energy (and backache) digging the hole.
>>
>> [1] The roses are intended as a cat-deterrent[2].  We have bird
>> feeders hanging from the branches of this tree and a neighbours cat
>> likes to lurk under a bush,
>>  From there it can leap up high enough to snatch a bird out of the
>> air. The roses are meant to occupy the cat's launching site.
>>
>> [2] The fact that these are pretty roses is entirely incidental.
>>
>
> You can buy a 1 metre long 10mm masonry bit for less than fifteen of
> your English pounds.  Ideal for detecting buried services too.
>
Once someone has been buried, the service is over and everyone goes home
(after the high tea, of course).

--
Sam Plusnet

On 29/01/2024 20:50, Tonysmith wrote:
> What do archaeologists use to look below the surface?

LIDAR. It sees through tree canopies and everything. Not entirely sure
whether it would do the trick here, though.

--
Kate B

On 29-Jan-24 14:09, Nick Odell wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Jan 2024 21:15:35 +0000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>
>> Wofe had bought six new rose plants (bare rooted) and has been _trying_
>> to plant them near a large silver birch[1].
>> She decided where she wanted each one, and started to dig a hole...
>> Large tree root.
>> She moved to one side and tried again.
>> Another tree root and a girt big rock.
>> Rinse and repeat for some time.
>>
>> I strongly believe there would be a good market for a hand-held ground
>> penetrating radar which could identify obstacles like roots or large
>> rocks _before_ you expend so much energy (and backache) digging the hole.
>>
>> [1] The roses are intended as a cat-deterrent[2]. We have bird feeders
>> hanging from the branches of this tree and a neighbours cat likes to
>> lurk under a bush,
>> From there it can leap up high enough to snatch a bird out of the air.
>> The roses are meant to occupy the cat's launching site.
>>
>> [2] The fact that these are pretty roses is entirely incidental.
>
> My next door neighbour has solved her cat-in-the-garden problem with a
> motion-detecting[1] hosepipe and although roses look pretty, I don't
> think they will achieve anything other than looking pretty.
>
> Now, this silver birch. Unlike -say- tall, thin trees which bore deep
> down for their water supplies, the silver birch has its roots spread
> out far and wide in a tangled mess, all near the surface. From years
> of not paying proper attention to Gardeners Question Time, my guess is
> that, even if you do manage to find a gap[2] between the roots, big
> enough to plant a rose the roses aren't going to thrive because the
> tree is going to suck all the water away.
>
> Nick
> [1]Don't... Just don't.
I tried not to, but...
> [2]Divining rods?? Just a thought

Quote: "suck all the water away"

Nick... We live in Wales.
There ain't no tree in existence that could suck all the water away.

--
Sam Plusnet

Tonysmith <agsmith578688@gmail.com> wrote:
> How do archaeologists look underground for non-metal things?
>

Trowels.

On 29.01.24 21:50, Tonysmith wrote:
> What do archaeologists use to look below the surface?
>
Radar, finding complete historic city remnants in the soil .
(IR)? photo graphics from air-planes/helicopters.
And maybe sound pulses to bounce off obstacles in the soil.

Tonysmith wrote:

>What do archaeologists use to look below the surface?

Did you not read the subject?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.

On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 09:01:07 +0000, Chris J Dixon wrote:

> Tonysmith wrote:
>
>>What do archaeologists use to look below the surface?
>
> Did you not read the subject?

No one expects UMRA threads to stay on topic.

--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0

On 29/01/2024 21:03, Sam Plusnet wrote:

>  Scrimping on the hole seldom pays in the long run.
>
I say Sam, this is a family newsgroup you know.

On 30/01/2024 09:06, Jim Easterbrook wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 09:01:07 +0000, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>
>> Tonysmith wrote:
>>
>>> What do archaeologists use to look below the surface?
>>
>> Did you not read the subject?
>
> No one expects UMRA threads to stay on topic.
>
Or the Spanish Inquisition.

In message <nnd$4d8e7c45$7c30ff75@eda4440960156d19> at Tue, 30 Jan 2024
02:16:59, Sjouke Burry <burrynulnulfour@ppllaanneett.nnll> writes
>On 29.01.24 21:50, Tonysmith wrote:
>> What do archaeologists use to look below the surface?
>>
>Radar, finding complete historic city remnants in the soil .
>(IR)? photo graphics from air-planes/helicopters.
>And maybe sound pulses to bounce off obstacles in the soil.

For the poor man's version, look at Google Maps - but do screenshots if
you find anything, as they seem to renew them very frequently, and such
things are sometimes only visible after a prolonged period of certain
weather conditions. For example, a former village I know of in
Northumberland - Ra{d|t}cliff(e) Terrace (despite the "Terrace", it was
a full village) - as seen now, there's not _that_ much visible:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/zqqtUTZyquh1nPsu5
But in 2018, after a very dry summer, an amazing silhouette (?) was
visible: https://255soft.uk/temp/2018-2.jpg (switch back and forth
between the two to see the difference).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Grammar is there to help, not hinder."
-- Mark Wallace, APIHNA, 2nd December 2000 (quoted by John Flynn 2000-12-6)

On 30-Jan-24 9:59, BrritSki wrote:
> On 29/01/2024 21:03, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>
>>   Scrimping on the hole seldom  pays in the long run.
>>
> I say Sam, this is a family newsgroup you know.

Don't understand.
Scrimping on the Hole is a perfectly respectable small village in Dorset.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 30-Jan-24 9:06, Jim Easterbrook wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 09:01:07 +0000, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>
>> Tonysmith wrote:
>>
>>> What do archaeologists use to look below the surface?
>>
>> Did you not read the subject?
>
> No one expects UMRA threads to stay on topic.
>
Topic? We have Topics??

--
Sam Plusnet

On 30/01/2024 17:56, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 30-Jan-24 9:06, Jim Easterbrook wrote:
>> On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 09:01:07 +0000, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>>
>>> Tonysmith wrote:
>>>
>>>> What do archaeologists use to look below the surface?
>>>
>>> Did you not read the subject?
>>
>> No one expects UMRA threads to stay on topic.
>>
> Topic?  We have Topics??
>
Topics? Of course we have Topics. They're next to the Snickers, but
check the best by date.

--
Ric

In message <upbqpd$15jq2$1@dont-email.me> at Tue, 30 Jan 2024 21:47:25,
Joe Kerr <joe_kerr@cheerful.com> writes
>On 30/01/2024 17:56, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 30-Jan-24 9:06, Jim Easterbrook wrote:
>>> On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 09:01:07 +0000, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tonysmith wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What do archaeologists use to look below the surface?
>>>>
>>>> Did you not read the subject?
>>>
>>> No one expects UMRA threads to stay on topic.
>>>
>> Topic?  We have Topics??
>>
>Topics? Of course we have Topics. They're next to the Snickers, but
>check the best by date.
>
If you find any Marathons, ...
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you to recognize a mistake when
you make it again. -Franklin P. Jones

Joe Kerr <joe_kerr@cheerful.com> wrote:
> On 30/01/2024 17:56, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 30-Jan-24 9:06, Jim Easterbrook wrote:
>>> On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 09:01:07 +0000, Chris J Dixon wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tonysmith wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What do archaeologists use to look below the surface?
>>>>
>>>> Did you not read the subject?
>>>
>>> No one expects UMRA threads to stay on topic.
>>>
>> Topic?  We have Topics??
>>
> Topics? Of course we have Topics. They're next to the Snickers, but
> check the best by date.
>

Best by dates - with chocolate????? Not relevant!

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan