In Safari on MacOS there's a checkbox to tick in the Settings which says
"Hide IP address from trackers". If I click on "Learn more..." it takes me to
a page describing iCloud Private Relay, which I don't subscribe to.

1. Does ticking this checkbox hide my IP address from trackers? If so, what
extra advantage is there from iCloud Private Relay?

2. How does iCloud Private Relay differ from a VPN?

Martin S Taylor

Am 10.04.24 um 16:59 schrieb Martin S Taylor:
> In Safari on MacOS there's a checkbox to tick in the Settings which says
> "Hide IP address from trackers". If I click on "Learn more..." it takes me to
> a page describing iCloud Private Relay, which I don't subscribe to.
>
> 1. Does ticking this checkbox hide my IP address from trackers? If so, what
> extra advantage is there from iCloud Private Relay?

Yes it does.

About iCloud Private Relay
iCloud Private Relay — part of an iCloud+ subscription — helps protect
your privacy when you browse the web in Safari.

How Private Relay works
Normally when you browse the web, information contained in your web
traffic, such as your DNS records and IP address, can be seen by your
network provider and the websites you visit. This information could be
used to determine your identity and build a profile of your location and
browsing history over time.

iCloud Private Relay is designed to protect your privacy by ensuring
that when you browse the web in Safari, no single party — not even Apple
— can see both who you are and what sites you're visiting.

When Private Relay is enabled, your requests are sent through two
separate, secure internet relays.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/102602

> 2. How does iCloud Private Relay differ from a VPN?

A VPN is a point-to-point encrypted tunnel vs. (several) Proxy Servers
in the case of iCloud Private Relay. The effect is practically the same.

> Martin S Taylor

Joerg

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

On 10 Apr 2024, Jörg Lorenz wrote
(in article <uv6cn4$11sug$1@dont-email.me>):

> Am 10.04.24 um 16:59 schrieb Martin S Taylor:
> > In Safari on MacOS there's a checkbox to tick in the Settings which says
> > "Hide IP address from trackers". If I click on "Learn more..." it takes me
> > to
> > a page describing iCloud Private Relay, which I don't subscribe to.
> >
> > 1. Does ticking this checkbox hide my IP address from trackers? If so, what
> > extra advantage is there from iCloud Private Relay?
>
> Yes it does.

Yes it does what? Is there any extra advantage in using iCloud Private Relay?

> 2. How does iCloud Private Relay differ from a VPN?

A VPN is a point-to-point encrypted tunnel vs. (several) Proxy Servers
in the case of iCloud Private Relay. The effect is practically the same.

> > 2. How does iCloud Private Relay differ from a VPN?
>
> A VPN is a point-to-point encrypted tunnel vs. (several) Proxy Servers
> in the case of iCloud Private Relay. The effect is practically the same.
So if I use iCloud Private Relay the only point in spending money on a VPN is
to protect my privacy when I'm not using Safari?

MST

On 10 Apr 2024 at 15:59:40 BST, "Martin S Taylor"
<correspondence@mRaErMtOiVnEsTtHaIySlor.com> wrote:

> In Safari on MacOS there's a checkbox to tick in the Settings which says
> "Hide IP address from trackers". If I click on "Learn more..." it takes me to
> a page describing iCloud Private Relay, which I don't subscribe to.

iCloud+ is what all the pay-for iCloud subs are, btw. If you're paying
99p or more for iCloud it got rebranded iCloud+ a year or two back.

> 1. Does ticking this checkbox hide my IP address from trackers?

Yes. It's double translated via two proxies and varies often.

> If so, what extra advantage is there from iCloud Private Relay?

That *is* iCloud Private Relay.

> 2. How does iCloud Private Relay differ from a VPN?

Relay isn't a VPN at all. It's just address hiding.

Cheers - Jaimie

--
"How fleeting are all human passions compared
with the massive continuity of ducks"
-- Dorothy L Sayers, _Gaudy Night_

On 10/04/2024 18:31, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
> On 10 Apr 2024 at 15:59:40 BST, "Martin S Taylor"
> <correspondence@mRaErMtOiVnEsTtHaIySlor.com> wrote:
>
>> In Safari on MacOS there's a checkbox to tick in the Settings which says
>> "Hide IP address from trackers". If I click on "Learn more..." it takes me to
>> a page describing iCloud Private Relay, which I don't subscribe to.
>
> iCloud+ is what all the pay-for iCloud subs are, btw. If you're paying
> 99p or more for iCloud it got rebranded iCloud+ a year or two back.
>
>> 1. Does ticking this checkbox hide my IP address from trackers?
>
> Yes. It's double translated via two proxies and varies often.
>
>> If so, what extra advantage is there from iCloud Private Relay?
>
> That *is* iCloud Private Relay.
>
>> 2. How does iCloud Private Relay differ from a VPN?
>
> Relay isn't a VPN at all. It's just address hiding.

Or put another way, a VPN such as NordVPN makes you appear to be
somewhere else by tunneling your traffic to one of their servers. Your
ISP sees your home IP address but also the IP addresses of the sites you
visit. Only the sites you visit are unaware of your home IP.

Private relay hides your address by going through two proxies. The 2nd
makes the connection to the site you are visiting at the behest of the
1st. Thus the 2nd can't know your IP because it only receives requests
from the 1st proxy.

The 1st proxy knows who you are but doesn't know which site you are
trying to visit because your Mac encrypts that request using a key that
the 1st proxy doesn't have access to. The 1st just passes on the
encrypted request to the 2nd proxy which can decrypt it, does the DNS
lookup to get the IP address of the site and then makes the connection.

The site being visited only sees the IP address of the 2nd proxy.

Simples!

--
Bruce Horrocks
Surrey, England

On 10 Apr 2024, Bruce Horrocks wrote
(in article<b3493b77-0634-4fbf-b296-1e7eca968e55@scorecrow.com>):

> > > 2. How does iCloud Private Relay differ from a VPN?
> >
> > Relay isn't a VPN at all. It's just address hiding.
>
> Or put another way, a VPN such as NordVPN makes you appear to be
> somewhere else by tunneling your traffic to one of their servers. Your
> ISP sees your home IP address but also the IP addresses of the sites you
> visit. Only the sites you visit are unaware of your home IP.
>
> Private relay hides your address by going through two proxies.

So a VPN makes it look as if I'm somewhere else; private relay hides my IP
address from sites I visit.

I'm still confused as to the difference.

MST

On 10 Apr 2024, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote
(in article <l7o0nqFhpdU1@mid.individual.net>):

> > 1. Does ticking this checkbox hide my IP address from trackers?
>
> Yes. It's double translated via two proxies and varies often.
>
> > If so, what extra advantage is there from iCloud Private Relay?
>
> That *is* iCloud Private Relay.

I wondered if that might be the case. So why does Apple tout 'iCloud Private
Relay' as one of the advantages of upgrading to iCloud+ ?

MST

Martin S Taylor wrote:

[snip]
>
> So a VPN makes it look as if I'm somewhere else; private relay hides my IP
> address from sites I visit.
>
> I'm still confused as to the difference.

It's two different mechanisms to achieve the same end.

The VPN concept has other applications. For instance I could (with your
co-operation, and for specific makes of router) set up a VPN from my
router to yours. I could then communicate with all the networked
devices on your LAN. This would be useful if you wanted me to manage
all your devices for you.

When I ran a support business this is exactly what I did for clients: it
enabled me to resolve user problems without a site visit, and to run
Microsoft server maintenance outside office hours so that I did not
disrupt their staff's daily work.

--
Graham J

On 11 Apr 2024, Graham J wrote
(in article <uv8f34$1l50v$1@dont-email.me>):

> Martin S Taylor wrote:
>
> [snip]
> >
> > So a VPN makes it look as if I'm somewhere else; private relay hides my IP
> > address from sites I visit.
> >
> > I'm still confused as to the difference.
>
> It's two different mechanisms to achieve the same end.
>
> The VPN concept has other applications. For instance I could (with your
> co-operation, and for specific makes of router) set up a VPN from my
> router to yours. I could then communicate with all the networked
> devices on your LAN. This would be useful if you wanted me to manage
> all your devices for you.
>
> When I ran a support business this is exactly what I did for clients: it
> enabled me to resolve user problems without a site visit, and to run
> Microsoft server maintenance outside office hours so that I did not
> disrupt their staff's daily work.

I see. Thanks.

And presumably Private Relay only works when I'm using Safari, whereas a
commercial VPN (eg. Nord) works on all my Internet connections?

MST

Martin S Taylor wrote:

[snip]

>
> And presumably Private Relay only works when I'm using Safari,

Probably it depends on how Apple integrate it ...

> whereas a
> commercial VPN (eg. Nord) works on all my Internet connections?

A VPN client installed on your computer will work for all the
connections made by that computer (subject to details of the client's
configuration).

A VPN service configured in your router will work for all the traffic
entering your router from your LAN - again subject to details of the its
configuration.

--
Graham J

On 2024-04-11, Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
> Martin S Taylor wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>>
>> And presumably Private Relay only works when I'm using Safari,
>
> Probably it depends on how Apple integrate it ...
>
>
>> whereas a
>> commercial VPN (eg. Nord) works on all my Internet connections?
>
>
> A VPN client installed on your computer will work for all the
> connections made by that computer (subject to details of the client's
> configuration).
>
> A VPN service configured in your router will work for all the traffic
> entering your router from your LAN - again subject to details of the its
> configuration.

Well I guess one can always use a browser that supports "The Onion" or the
actual TOR Browser itself!

--
Cheers, Alan

On 10/04/2024 18:03, Martin S Taylor wrote:
> On 10 Apr 2024, Jörg Lorenz wrote
> (in article <uv6cn4$11sug$1@dont-email.me>):
>
>> Am 10.04.24 um 16:59 schrieb Martin S Taylor:
>>> In Safari on MacOS there's a checkbox to tick in the Settings which says
>>> "Hide IP address from trackers". If I click on "Learn more..." it takes me
>>> to
>>> a page describing iCloud Private Relay, which I don't subscribe to.
>>>
>>> 1. Does ticking this checkbox hide my IP address from trackers? If so, what
>>> extra advantage is there from iCloud Private Relay?
>>
>> Yes it does.
>
> Yes it does what? Is there any extra advantage in using iCloud Private Relay?
>
>> 2. How does iCloud Private Relay differ from a VPN?
>
> A VPN is a point-to-point encrypted tunnel vs. (several) Proxy Servers
> in the case of iCloud Private Relay. The effect is practically the same.
>
>>> 2. How does iCloud Private Relay differ from a VPN?
>>
>> A VPN is a point-to-point encrypted tunnel vs. (several) Proxy Servers
>> in the case of iCloud Private Relay. The effect is practically the same.
> So if I use iCloud Private Relay the only point in spending money on a VPN is
> to protect my privacy when I'm not using Safari?
>
> MST
>
Hi Martin

Thats AIUI - So when using other browsers I always use "ProtonVPN". It
is highly regarded/reviewed but offers the bonus of a "FREE" (light)
service - that works very well. However, it only connects to one server
- in the Netherlands - so if you want to force it via a different
country you need to buy one of their standard packages.

I haven't needed to do that yet :-)

JohnB

On 11/04/2024 11:26, Martin S Taylor wrote:
> On 10 Apr 2024, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote
> (in article <l7o0nqFhpdU1@mid.individual.net>):
>
>>> 1. Does ticking this checkbox hide my IP address from trackers?
>>
>> Yes. It's double translated via two proxies and varies often.
>>
>>> If so, what extra advantage is there from iCloud Private Relay?
>>
>> That *is* iCloud Private Relay.
>
> I wondered if that might be the case. So why does Apple tout 'iCloud Private
> Relay' as one of the advantages of upgrading to iCloud+ ?

Well the marketing is at least accurate ;-)

--
Chris