Why do some mobile phones seem to get so hot when in use? I borrowed A
recent Samsung the other day, and it was very hot. They gooey said it was
normal. However my I-Phone does not do this, Admittedly I have the screen at
0 brightness and the screen curtain on when I use it.
It occurred to me that all heat is waste heat and no mater where its being
generated, be it in the battery or the electronics, its effectively wasting
energy that way.
I think we are waiting for a new battery technology here, as most current
smart phones seem to be as heavy as a brick nowadays.
Brian

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Usually due to an errant app that’s not shut down properly in the
background, continuously using location services for instance.

Tim

Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
> Why do some mobile phones seem to get so hot when in use? I borrowed A
> recent Samsung the other day, and it was very hot. They gooey said it was
> normal. However my I-Phone does not do this, Admittedly I have the screen at
> 0 brightness and the screen curtain on when I use it.
> It occurred to me that all heat is waste heat and no mater where its being
> generated, be it in the battery or the electronics, its effectively wasting
> energy that way.
> I think we are waiting for a new battery technology here, as most current
> smart phones seem to be as heavy as a brick nowadays.
> Brian
>

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 24/02/2024 10:41, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Why do some mobile phones seem to get so hot when in use? I borrowed A
> recent Samsung the other day, and it was very hot. They gooey said it was
> normal. However my I-Phone does not do this, Admittedly I have the screen at
> 0 brightness and the screen curtain on when I use it.
> It occurred to me that all heat is waste heat and no mater where its being
> generated, be it in the battery or the electronics, its effectively wasting
> energy that way.

A lot depends on how hard the designers are pushing the chips, and also
if you are a long way away from a cell transmitter, you simply need more
power. My own phone chews power when used as a satnav.

> I think we are waiting for a new battery technology here, as most current
> smart phones seem to be as heavy as a brick nowadays.
> Brian
>
You can wait all you want Brian. Battery technology is *nearly* as good
as it gets.

Ye canna change the laws of physics.

--
There’s a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons
that sound good.

Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)

Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:

> Why do some mobile phones seem to get so hot when in use? I borrowed A
> recent Samsung the other day, and it was very hot. They gooey said it was
> normal. However my I-Phone does not do this, Admittedly I have the screen at
> 0 brightness and the screen curtain on when I use it.
> It occurred to me that all heat is waste heat and no mater where its being
> generated, be it in the battery or the electronics, its effectively wasting
> energy that way.
> I think we are waiting for a new battery technology here, as most current
> smart phones seem to be as heavy as a brick nowadays.
> Brian

Is the 'phone getting hot or is it your hand from all that RF being
absorbed?

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On 24/02/2024 11:41, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> Is the 'phone getting hot or is it your hand from all that RF being
> absorbed?

My grandpa worked at a radar station during the war. He told me that
they all used to warm themselves up by standing in front of the radar
waveguide (rectangular box section like ducting for hot-air central
heating, by the sound of it) when the waveguide was open for maintenance
but (for some weird reason) the transmitter was still operating.

He confessed rather sheepishly that the reason he only had one child (my
dad, born *before* the war) was that by doing this, he may have
"microwaved" two crucial parts of his anatomy...

NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:

> On 24/02/2024 11:41, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> > Is the 'phone getting hot or is it your hand from all that RF being
> > absorbed?
>
> My grandpa worked at a radar station during the war. He told me that
> they all used to warm themselves up by standing in front of the radar
> waveguide (rectangular box section like ducting for hot-air central
> heating, by the sound of it) when the waveguide was open for maintenance
> but (for some weird reason) the transmitter was still operating.
>
> He confessed rather sheepishly that the reason he only had one child (my
> dad, born *before* the war) was that by doing this, he may have
> "microwaved" two crucial parts of his anatomy...

That could be used as propaganda to discourage certain unsavoury people
from posting 'intimate' mobile 'phone photographs of themselves. :-)

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On 24/02/2024 10:41, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Why do some mobile phones seem to get so hot when in use?

The same reason that the batteries run down when they are in use. Most
of the energy used to charge the battery ends up as "waste" heat.

The same is probably true of the wet gray stuff between your ears, but
that has liquid cooling, so the heat is dissipated elsewhere.

For the electronics, I'm not sure how close to theoretical limits we
are, but the rate of heat production will be proportional to the
operating speed, the amount of charge used to represent a bit, and the
operating voltage. As charge is discrete there are theoretical limits
to that, as with too low a charge, statistical variations will result in
errors. At one stage voltages kept coming down, but I think they may be
near the limits now, although I'm not sure of the technological basis
for the limits. The market demands ever increasing speeds, and software
bloat take up the gains in speed.

Basically, when changing a state, you dissipate the charge in a
resistance, rather than having the equivalent of regenerative braking.

On 24/02/2024 11:41, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> s it your hand from all that RF being
> absorbed?
Oh dear...

--
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(or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans,
about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and
the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a
'noble' idea. It is not an honest pursuit of 'sustainable development,'
a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for
rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet
things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that
you live neither in Joseph Stalin’s Communist era, nor in the Orwellian
utopia of 1984.”

Vaclav Klaus

On 24/02/2024 10:41, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Why do some mobile phones seem to get so hot when in use?

Basically modern rushed software.

Jon

I don't notice that on my I phone though. Tile and gps aware things like
maps, but even if on, they just shorten the battery charge life.
It was Samsung which tended to catch fire several versions ago, but I
imagine the screens use quite a bit of current, and although the battery
health on my 10R says 90 percent, I often think companies are over
optimistic about these things generally.
Brian

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"Tim+" <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote in message
news:644697581.730464875.668080.timdownieuk-yahoo.co.youkay@news.individual.net...
> Usually due to an errant app that's not shut down properly in the
> background, continuously using location services for instance.
>
> Tim
>
> Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Why do some mobile phones seem to get so hot when in use? I borrowed A
>> recent Samsung the other day, and it was very hot. They gooey said it was
>> normal. However my I-Phone does not do this, Admittedly I have the screen
>> at
>> 0 brightness and the screen curtain on when I use it.
>> It occurred to me that all heat is waste heat and no mater where its
>> being
>> generated, be it in the battery or the electronics, its effectively
>> wasting
>> energy that way.
>> I think we are waiting for a new battery technology here, as most
>> current
>> smart phones seem to be as heavy as a brick nowadays.
>> Brian
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Please don't feed the trolls

Ah that is a thought, but having worked with microwaves in Radar devices. I
can tell you that the sort of heat you get by accidentally microwaving your
hand feels more like an RF burn to start with. How objects take a few
seconds to register any pain.
Brian

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"Liz Tuddenham" <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:1qpfkfv.yn4sy91qolmc3N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid...
> Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Why do some mobile phones seem to get so hot when in use? I borrowed A
>> recent Samsung the other day, and it was very hot. They gooey said it was
>> normal. However my I-Phone does not do this, Admittedly I have the screen
>> at
>> 0 brightness and the screen curtain on when I use it.
>> It occurred to me that all heat is waste heat and no mater where its
>> being
>> generated, be it in the battery or the electronics, its effectively
>> wasting
>> energy that way.
>> I think we are waiting for a new battery technology here, as most
>> current
>> smart phones seem to be as heavy as a brick nowadays.
>> Brian
>
> Is the 'phone getting hot or is it your hand from all that RF being
> absorbed?
>
>
> --
> ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
> (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
> www.poppyrecords.co.uk

Yes I'm sure you all know of the story about the radar engineer did not
notice till his bacon sandwich started to smell, inside his pocket. Its
normally not possible to run a magnetron or klystron with no aerial as the
standing waves are detected and turn them off in case they destroy
themselves. Normally you would use a dummy load on the end of the waveguide
made of carbon. This could get very hot, but was cheaper than a military
Klystron.
Brian

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"NY" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:g9udnTQJurOrRUT4nZ2dnZfqn_ednZ2d@brightview.co.uk...
> On 24/02/2024 11:41, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>> Is the 'phone getting hot or is it your hand from all that RF being
>> absorbed?
>
> My grandpa worked at a radar station during the war. He told me that they
> all used to warm themselves up by standing in front of the radar waveguide
> (rectangular box section like ducting for hot-air central heating, by the
> sound of it) when the waveguide was open for maintenance but (for some
> weird reason) the transmitter was still operating.
>
> He confessed rather sheepishly that the reason he only had one child (my
> dad, born *before* the war) was that by doing this, he may have
> "microwaved" two crucial parts of his anatomy...

Most of the crap posted is AI generated fakes of famous people. I hope the
general public realise this by now. Brian

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"Liz Tuddenham" <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:1qpfm39.1affb0n7gkjosN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid...
> NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> On 24/02/2024 11:41, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>> > Is the 'phone getting hot or is it your hand from all that RF being
>> > absorbed?
>>
>> My grandpa worked at a radar station during the war. He told me that
>> they all used to warm themselves up by standing in front of the radar
>> waveguide (rectangular box section like ducting for hot-air central
>> heating, by the sound of it) when the waveguide was open for maintenance
>> but (for some weird reason) the transmitter was still operating.
>>
>> He confessed rather sheepishly that the reason he only had one child (my
>> dad, born *before* the war) was that by doing this, he may have
>> "microwaved" two crucial parts of his anatomy...
>
> That could be used as propaganda to discourage certain unsavoury people
> from posting 'intimate' mobile 'phone photographs of themselves. :-)
>
>
> --
> ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
> (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
> www.poppyrecords.co.uk

That should be hot objects, I cannot type today.
Brian

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"Brian Gaff" <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:urhul7$2h42l$1@dont-email.me...
> Ah that is a thought, but having worked with microwaves in Radar devices.
> I can tell you that the sort of heat you get by accidentally microwaving
> your hand feels more like an RF burn to start with. How objects take a few
> seconds to register any pain.
> Brian
>
> --
>
> --:
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> briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
> Blind user, so no pictures please
> Note this Signature is meaningless.!
> "Liz Tuddenham" <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:1qpfkfv.yn4sy91qolmc3N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid...
>> Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Why do some mobile phones seem to get so hot when in use? I borrowed A
>>> recent Samsung the other day, and it was very hot. They gooey said it
>>> was
>>> normal. However my I-Phone does not do this, Admittedly I have the
>>> screen at
>>> 0 brightness and the screen curtain on when I use it.
>>> It occurred to me that all heat is waste heat and no mater where its
>>> being
>>> generated, be it in the battery or the electronics, its effectively
>>> wasting
>>> energy that way.
>>> I think we are waiting for a new battery technology here, as most
>>> current
>>> smart phones seem to be as heavy as a brick nowadays.
>>> Brian
>>
>> Is the 'phone getting hot or is it your hand from all that RF being
>> absorbed?
>>
>>
>> --
>> ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
>> (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
>> www.poppyrecords.co.uk
>
>

I guess this is why they are always searching for chip materials that can
still conduct but do not get so hot. Interestingly, our brains can overheat,
and this is another worry in places with excessive temperatures.
Brian

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"David Woolley" <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote in message
news:urct0q$17f0j$1@dont-email.me...
> On 24/02/2024 10:41, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> Why do some mobile phones seem to get so hot when in use?
>
> The same reason that the batteries run down when they are in use. Most of
> the energy used to charge the battery ends up as "waste" heat.
>
> The same is probably true of the wet gray stuff between your ears, but
> that has liquid cooling, so the heat is dissipated elsewhere.
>
> For the electronics, I'm not sure how close to theoretical limits we are,
> but the rate of heat production will be proportional to the operating
> speed, the amount of charge used to represent a bit, and the operating
> voltage. As charge is discrete there are theoretical limits to that, as
> with too low a charge, statistical variations will result in errors. At
> one stage voltages kept coming down, but I think they may be near the
> limits now, although I'm not sure of the technological basis for the
> limits. The market demands ever increasing speeds, and software bloat
> take up the gains in speed.
>
> Basically, when changing a state, you dissipate the charge in a
> resistance, rather than having the equivalent of regenerative braking.

Its the user interface though. Making the world and the digital world
compatible.
Brian

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"Jon Schneider" <jon@jschneider.tenreversed> wrote in message
news:l43cbjF4981U1@mid.individual.net...
> On 24/02/2024 10:41, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> Why do some mobile phones seem to get so hot when in use?
>
> Basically modern rushed software.
>
> Jon
>

Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:

> That should be hot objects, I cannot type today.

Burnt fingers?

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Obviously there is that to some extent, as most apps are written in a more
human understandable way then compiled using libraries into working code on
the machine its for. This has been going on for years on home and business
computers where the efficiency and space taken are not so much of a problem.
I once had an old 386 machine that ran a basic fax program extremely slowly,
on investigation it was redrawing the whole screen as it changed anything on
it, thus making it like a slug.
Incidentally I had thought that faxes were now consigned to the bin of
history, but it seems banks still use them.
Brian

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"Brian Gaff" <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:urhvbo$2h8nm$1@dont-email.me...
> Its the user interface though. Making the world and the digital world
> compatible.
> Brian
>
> --
>
> --:
> This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
> The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
> briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
> Blind user, so no pictures please
> Note this Signature is meaningless.!
> "Jon Schneider" <jon@jschneider.tenreversed> wrote in message
> news:l43cbjF4981U1@mid.individual.net...
>> On 24/02/2024 10:41, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>> Why do some mobile phones seem to get so hot when in use?
>>
>> Basically modern rushed software.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>
>

If you ever get any correspondence via electronic means from the NHS, at
last they are noting that Faxes were used should be phased out in favour of
computers. We all know why, much of the output from faxes is vague and
rather hit and miss.
Brian

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"Brian Gaff" <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:urks1i$38hf3$1@dont-email.me...
> Obviously there is that to some extent, as most apps are written in a more
> human understandable way then compiled using libraries into working code
> on the machine its for. This has been going on for years on home and
> business computers where the efficiency and space taken are not so much of
> a problem. I once had an old 386 machine that ran a basic fax program
> extremely slowly, on investigation it was redrawing the whole screen as it
> changed anything on it, thus making it like a slug.
> Incidentally I had thought that faxes were now consigned to the bin of
> history, but it seems banks still use them.
> Brian
>
> --
>
> --:
> This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
> The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
> briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
> Blind user, so no pictures please
> Note this Signature is meaningless.!
> "Brian Gaff" <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:urhvbo$2h8nm$1@dont-email.me...
>> Its the user interface though. Making the world and the digital world
>> compatible.
>> Brian
>>
>> --
>>
>> --:
>> This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
>> The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
>> briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
>> Blind user, so no pictures please
>> Note this Signature is meaningless.!
>> "Jon Schneider" <jon@jschneider.tenreversed> wrote in message
>> news:l43cbjF4981U1@mid.individual.net...
>>> On 24/02/2024 10:41, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>>> Why do some mobile phones seem to get so hot when in use?
>>>
>>> Basically modern rushed software.
>>>
>>> Jon
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

However Banks still use Faxes. I was told once that the Fax was invented by
those who do not use roman based characters, like Japan, so they could send
the original copy over the phone line. Back in the 80s, I had a fax for my
business, but in the end I had to turn it off at night as it was costing a
small fortune in paper due to junk advertising faxes of products I might
like to stock.
Brian

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"Brian Gaff" <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:uset0d$1lmfv$1@dont-email.me...
> If you ever get any correspondence via electronic means from the NHS, at
> last they are noting that Faxes were used should be phased out in favour
> of computers. We all know why, much of the output from faxes is vague and
> rather hit and miss.
> Brian
>
> --
>
> --:
> This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
> The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
> briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
> Blind user, so no pictures please
> Note this Signature is meaningless.!
> "Brian Gaff" <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:urks1i$38hf3$1@dont-email.me...
>> Obviously there is that to some extent, as most apps are written in a
>> more human understandable way then compiled using libraries into working
>> code on the machine its for. This has been going on for years on home
>> and business computers where the efficiency and space taken are not so
>> much of a problem. I once had an old 386 machine that ran a basic fax
>> program extremely slowly, on investigation it was redrawing the whole
>> screen as it changed anything on it, thus making it like a slug.
>> Incidentally I had thought that faxes were now consigned to the bin of
>> history, but it seems banks still use them.
>> Brian
>>
>> --
>>
>> --:
>> This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
>> The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
>> briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
>> Blind user, so no pictures please
>> Note this Signature is meaningless.!
>> "Brian Gaff" <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:urhvbo$2h8nm$1@dont-email.me...
>>> Its the user interface though. Making the world and the digital world
>>> compatible.
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> --:
>>> This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
>>> The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
>>> briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
>>> Blind user, so no pictures please
>>> Note this Signature is meaningless.!
>>> "Jon Schneider" <jon@jschneider.tenreversed> wrote in message
>>> news:l43cbjF4981U1@mid.individual.net...
>>>> On 24/02/2024 10:41, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>>>> Why do some mobile phones seem to get so hot when in use?
>>>>
>>>> Basically modern rushed software.
>>>>
>>>> Jon
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

You can't send an original copy. All you can send is a copy. Someone
should have picked them up on that.

Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:

> You can't send an original copy. All you can send is a copy. Someone
> should have picked them up on that.

I was told I had to submit an "original copy" of a document when appying
for a passport. That was just one of many mistakes and the whole
application process involved three different offices and took from
September until January.

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On 13 Mar 2024 22:03, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham)
wrote:
> Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
>
>> You can't send an original copy. All you can send is a copy. Someone
>> should have picked them up on that.
>
> I was told I had to submit an "original copy" of a document when appying
> for a passport. That was just one of many mistakes and the whole
> application process involved three different offices and took from
> September until January.

Marriage certificates are Crown Copyright and may not be duplicated
without due authority. So what orgs have to ask for is the "original
copy" as the original is in the Register and nowhere else.

That is why the "certificate" says it is a copy of the entry in the
register

Rupert Moss-Eccardt <nin@moss-eccardt.com> wrote:

> On 13 Mar 2024 22:03, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham)
> wrote:
> > Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
> >
> >> You can't send an original copy. All you can send is a copy. Someone
> >> should have picked them up on that.
> >
> > I was told I had to submit an "original copy" of a document when appying
> > for a passport. That was just one of many mistakes and the whole
> > application process involved three different offices and took from
> > September until January.
>
> Marriage certificates are Crown Copyright and may not be duplicated
> without due authority. So what orgs have to ask for is the "original
> copy" as the original is in the Register and nowhere else.
>
> That is why the "certificate" says it is a copy of the entry in the
> register

That didn't apply in this case. They also told me I had to fill in the
section relating to my parents' ethnic origins, so I wrote in:
"Radstock" and Plymouth". I heard no more about that.

It was just one bureaucratic cock-up after another.

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Yes An original copy. That was a throw back from the old carbon copy days.
The first copy, just under the original, is the original copy. I guess it
was thought it would be less blurred. However in today's world of all copies
looking the same it matters not. The problem of course with all of this is
that if there is, for example a signature, all copies need to be signed in
the presence of the same witnesses. I think the paperwork other than that
is over the top for most things these days and somebody needs to sit down
and decide what is really needed and redefine the rules to make it all far
easier.
Brian

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"Liz Tuddenham" <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:1qqfabe.15iqbo97yctyyN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid...
> Rupert Moss-Eccardt <nin@moss-eccardt.com> wrote:
>
>> On 13 Mar 2024 22:03, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham)
>> wrote:
>> > Richmond <dnomhcir@gmx.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> You can't send an original copy. All you can send is a copy. Someone
>> >> should have picked them up on that.
>> >
>> > I was told I had to submit an "original copy" of a document when
>> > appying
>> > for a passport. That was just one of many mistakes and the whole
>> > application process involved three different offices and took from
>> > September until January.
>>
>> Marriage certificates are Crown Copyright and may not be duplicated
>> without due authority. So what orgs have to ask for is the "original
>> copy" as the original is in the Register and nowhere else.
>>
>> That is why the "certificate" says it is a copy of the entry in the
>> register
>
> That didn't apply in this case. They also told me I had to fill in the
> section relating to my parents' ethnic origins, so I wrote in:
> "Radstock" and Plymouth". I heard no more about that.
>
> It was just one bureaucratic cock-up after another.
>
>
> --
> ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
> (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
> www.poppyrecords.co.uk