Because most of my "garden" is actually pots I buy a lot of compost. I
usually buy "general purpose" at a garden centre, perhaps Own Brand.
Recently I was purchasing some things online and could include compost
in my order and got 2 bags of Miracle Gro. This turns out to be quite
different to all the stuff I've bought before. The MG very much
resembles the bagged Farmyard Manure I also buy from the GC - ie, it is
very "rough textured" with lots of "bits" in it, whereas my usual stuff
is much more granular (and blacker.)

I'm sure the MG was much more expensive, but is it likely to produce
better plants?

--
Jenny M Benson
Wrexham, UK

On 24/05/2023 10:53, Jenny M Benson wrote:
> Because most of my "garden" is actually pots I buy a lot of compost. I
> usually buy "general purpose" at a garden centre, perhaps Own Brand.
> Recently I was purchasing some things online and could include compost
> in my order and got 2 bags of Miracle Gro. This turns out to be quite
> different to all the stuff I've bought before. The MG very much
> resembles the bagged Farmyard Manure I also buy from the GC - ie, it is
> very "rough textured" with lots of "bits" in it, whereas my usual stuff
> is much more granular (and blacker.)
>
> I'm sure the MG was much more expensive, but is it likely to produce
> better plants?

It might; it might not.

The problem is that peat is being removed from composts. This has been
going on for quite some time, and the compost manufacturers have been
looking at alternatives. These include coir, shredded bark, "green
waste" (eg from council recycling centres), and other bits and pieces.
Some plants respond positively to the new mixtures while others don't.
Some of the new composts dry out more quickly than those which contained
peat, and if you aren't careful the lack of water could have a
deleterious effect on your plants, if not kill them. However, if kept
well watered, the plants might grow better in the new compost.

There's no one answer. We're all on a learning curve with the new composts.

--

Jeff

On 24/05/2023 11:12, Jeff Layman wrote:

> It might; it might not.
>
> The problem is that peat is being removed from composts. This has been
> going on for quite some time, and the compost manufacturers have been
> looking at alternatives. These include coir, shredded bark, "green
> waste" (eg from council recycling centres), and other bits and pieces.
> Some plants respond positively to the new mixtures while others don't.
> Some of the new composts dry out more quickly than those which contained
> peat, and if you aren't careful the lack of water could have a
> deleterious effect on your plants, if not kill them. However, if kept
> well watered, the plants might grow better in the new compost.
>
> There's no one answer. We're all on a learning curve with the new composts.
>

Also there is the industry in composting commercial waste such as the
feathers from the 1 billion plus chickens sold in the uk each year etc.

There is no guarantee that what is being used in one batch is the same
as that being used a month down line. Albeit generic own brand compost
from one of the big sheds, I've purchased bags of compost a few weeks
apart and found them to be completely different, especially with the
ability to hold water.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Wed, 24 May 2023 10:53:13 +0100, Jenny M Benson
<NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

>Because most of my "garden" is actually pots I buy a lot of compost. I
>usually buy "general purpose" at a garden centre, perhaps Own Brand.
>Recently I was purchasing some things online and could include compost
>in my order and got 2 bags of Miracle Gro. This turns out to be quite
>different to all the stuff I've bought before. The MG very much
>resembles the bagged Farmyard Manure I also buy from the GC - ie, it is
>very "rough textured" with lots of "bits" in it, whereas my usual stuff
>is much more granular (and blacker.)
>
>I'm sure the MG was much more expensive, but is it likely to produce
>better plants?

Agree with all that's been said by Jeff and Alan.
Many years ago I used to work for a clay-mining company. The seams of
clay, generally horizontal, were interspersed with seams of lignite,
which as far as we were concerned was a waste product, of little
value, and was usually dumped. But we offered it to a garden compost
company, can't remember which, at a price that would cover our costs
in excavating and transporting it, i.e. pretty cheap. But apparently
even that price was too high, and nothing came of it. The lesson to be
learned is that they will use the cheapest materials they can get hold
of, so be warned. You probably get a better quality compost if you pay
a bit more.

--
Chris

Gardening in West Cornwall, very mild, sheltered
from the West, but open to the North and East.

On Wed, 24 May 2023 11:39:12 +0100, alan_m wrote:

> On 24/05/2023 11:12, Jeff Layman wrote:
>
>> It might; it might not.
>>
>> The problem is that peat is being removed from composts. This has been
>> going on for quite some time, and the compost manufacturers have been
>> looking at alternatives. These include coir, shredded bark, "green
>> waste" (eg from council recycling centres), and other bits and pieces.
>> Some plants respond positively to the new mixtures while others don't.
>> Some of the new composts dry out more quickly than those which
>> contained peat, and if you aren't careful the lack of water could have
>> a deleterious effect on your plants, if not kill them. However, if kept
>> well watered, the plants might grow better in the new compost.
>>
>> There's no one answer. We're all on a learning curve with the new
>> composts.
>>
>>
> Also there is the industry in composting commercial waste such as the
> feathers from the 1 billion plus chickens sold in the uk each year etc.
>
> There is no guarantee that what is being used in one batch is the same
> as that being used a month down line. Albeit generic own brand compost
> from one of the big sheds, I've purchased bags of compost a few weeks
> apart and found them to be completely different, especially with the
> ability to hold water.

I've taken to mixing some JI No. 3 into the generic compost, which seems
to be mainly shredded vegetable material.

I hope this will aid water retention and reduce the "air to compost" ratio
which IMHO is very different from your average garden soil.

Peat based compost is again IMHO far superior, but not an environmentally
friendly product in the long run.

Cheers

Dave R

--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

In article <kd6gkjFkl31U4@mid.individual.net>, wibble@btinternet.com
says...
>
> On Wed, 24 May 2023 11:39:12 +0100, alan_m wrote:
>
> > On 24/05/2023 11:12, Jeff Layman wrote:
> >
> >> It might; it might not.
> >>
> >> The problem is that peat is being removed from composts. This has been
> >> going on for quite some time, and the compost manufacturers have been
> >> looking at alternatives. These include coir, shredded bark, "green
> >> waste" (eg from council recycling centres), and other bits and pieces.
> >> Some plants respond positively to the new mixtures while others don't.
> >> Some of the new composts dry out more quickly than those which
> >> contained peat, and if you aren't careful the lack of water could have
> >> a deleterious effect on your plants, if not kill them. However, if kept
> >> well watered, the plants might grow better in the new compost.
> >>
> >> There's no one answer. We're all on a learning curve with the new
> >> composts.
> >>
> >>
> > Also there is the industry in composting commercial waste such as the
> > feathers from the 1 billion plus chickens sold in the uk each year etc.
> >
> > There is no guarantee that what is being used in one batch is the same
> > as that being used a month down line. Albeit generic own brand compost
> > from one of the big sheds, I've purchased bags of compost a few weeks
> > apart and found them to be completely different, especially with the
> > ability to hold water.
>
> I've taken to mixing some JI No. 3 into the generic compost, which seems
> to be mainly shredded vegetable material.
>
> I hope this will aid water retention and reduce the "air to compost" ratio
> which IMHO is very different from your average garden soil.
>
> Peat based compost is again IMHO far superior, but not an environmentally
> friendly product in the long run.
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> Dave R

You can buy a peat free compost with added John Innis. Seems to be ok
and not expensive at Morrisons.

--
Jim the Geordie

In article <kd6gkjFkl31U4@mid.individual.net>,
David <wibble@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>I've taken to mixing some JI No. 3 into the generic compost, which seems
>to be mainly shredded vegetable material.
>
>I hope this will aid water retention and reduce the "air to compost" ratio
>which IMHO is very different from your average garden soil.
>
>Peat based compost is again IMHO far superior, but not an environmentally
>friendly product in the long run.

Not in my experience - when the peat breaks down, it forms completely
impervious humus - I have lost plants from that. But the commercial
'John Innes' composts are often total junk - Westland is particularly
bad, and took over JA Bowers, so that is, too. I tested them, and
they were almost pure silt (probably from sugar beet washing), with
a very small amount of humus as powder. I now make up my own. Coir
is good for being free-draining and fairly water-retentive (though
nothing like peat).

The coarse stuff is probably because they use 'green bin' material,
which includes a lot of shredded wood. If you see that, I recommend
looking for another brand.

Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 25/05/2023 10:08, Nick Maclaren wrote:
> In article <kd6gkjFkl31U4@mid.individual.net>,
> David <wibble@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>> I've taken to mixing some JI No. 3 into the generic compost, which seems
>> to be mainly shredded vegetable material.
>>
>> I hope this will aid water retention and reduce the "air to compost" ratio
>> which IMHO is very different from your average garden soil.
>>
>> Peat based compost is again IMHO far superior, but not an environmentally
>> friendly product in the long run.
>
> Not in my experience - when the peat breaks down, it forms completely
> impervious humus - I have lost plants from that. But the commercial
> 'John Innes' composts are often total junk - Westland is particularly
> bad, and took over JA Bowers, so that is, too. I tested them, and
> they were almost pure silt (probably from sugar beet washing), with
> a very small amount of humus as powder. I now make up my own. Coir
> is good for being free-draining and fairly water-retentive (though
> nothing like peat).
>
> The coarse stuff is probably because they use 'green bin' material,
> which includes a lot of shredded wood. If you see that, I recommend
> looking for another brand.

Around 1955 it occurred to me that sprinkling sawdust on lawn grass (our
soil was very sandy and lacked humus) might benefit soil structure, so I
put the idea to my grandfather, an accomplished gardener.

He gave my idea the BIG NO-NO as it would result in toadstools. I wish
I'd tried it now, as many of the resulting fungi were likely to have
been waxcaps, many of which are good edible species. For him, moss,
lichens and fungi, daisies, dandelions &c were to be eradicated without
mercy.

I can live with them. We got waxcaps anyway, and the rest.

I'm now older than my granffather was at the time and it's a little late
to try it now, especially as I don't have a lawn...

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 25/05/2023 22:55, RustyHinge wrote:
> On 25/05/2023 10:08, Nick Maclaren wrote:
>> In article <kd6gkjFkl31U4@mid.individual.net>,
>> David  <wibble@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I've taken to mixing some JI No. 3 into the generic compost, which seems
>>> to be mainly shredded vegetable material.
>>>
>>> I hope this will aid water retention and reduce the "air to compost"
>>> ratio
>>> which IMHO is very different from your average garden soil.
>>>
>>> Peat based compost is again IMHO far superior, but not an
>>> environmentally
>>> friendly product in the long run.
>>
>> Not in my experience - when the peat breaks down, it forms completely
>> impervious humus - I have lost plants from that.  But the commercial
>> 'John Innes' composts are often total junk - Westland is particularly
>> bad, and took over JA Bowers, so that is, too.  I tested them, and
>> they were almost pure silt (probably from sugar beet washing), with
>> a very small amount of humus as powder.  I now make up my own.  Coir
>> is good for being free-draining and fairly water-retentive (though
>> nothing like peat).
>>
>> The coarse stuff is probably because they use 'green bin' material,
>> which includes a lot of shredded wood.  If you see that, I recommend
>> looking for another brand.
>
> Around 1955 it occurred to me that sprinkling sawdust on lawn grass (our
> soil was very sandy and lacked humus) might benefit soil structure, so I
> put the idea to my grandfather, an accomplished gardener.
>
> He gave my idea the BIG NO-NO as it would result in toadstools. I wish
> I'd tried it now, as many of the resulting fungi were likely to have
> been waxcaps, many of which are good edible species. For him, moss,
> lichens and fungi, daisies, dandelions &c were to be eradicated without
> mercy.
>
> I can live with them. We got waxcaps anyway, and the rest.
>
> I'm now older than my granffather was at the time and it's a little late
> to try it now, especially as I don't have a lawn...
>
I tried to make paths and weed suppressors out of bark chippings -
they proved to make excellent composts

My favourite was cocoa husks - the garden smelt of chocolate! But it was
as useless as anything else...

--
"It is an established fact to 97% confidence limits that left wing
conspirators see right wing conspiracies everywhere"

On Fri, 26 May 2023 07:02:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>I tried to make paths and weed suppressors out of bark chippings -
>they proved to make excellent composts
>
>My favourite was cocoa husks - the garden smelt of chocolate! But it was
>as useless as anything else...

I once got a mini-van load of spent hops from the local brewery (they
let you take as much as you liked for free) and spread it around
thickly as a mulch. After a few days it melt strongly
of...well...decomposing hops I suppose, not particularly nice and
certainly not beer!

--
Chris

Gardening in West Cornwall, very mild, sheltered
from the West, but open to the North and East.

On 26/05/2023 07:20, Chris Hogg wrote:
> On Fri, 26 May 2023 07:02:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I tried to make paths and weed suppressors out of bark chippings -
>> they proved to make excellent composts
>>
>> My favourite was cocoa husks - the garden smelt of chocolate! But it was
>> as useless as anything else...
>
> I once got a mini-van load of spent hops from the local brewery (they
> let you take as much as you liked for free) and spread it around
> thickly as a mulch. After a few days it melt strongly
> of...well...decomposing hops I suppose, not particularly nice and
> certainly not beer!
>

I've done the same with the added bonus that they were all bagged up in
very strong woven sacks that served well for rubble sacks :)

I thought that the spent hops would make a good mulch but they quickly
composted and disappeared into the soil.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 26/05/2023 07:30, alan_m wrote:
> On 26/05/2023 07:20, Chris Hogg wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 May 2023 07:02:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> I tried to make paths and weed suppressors out of bark chippings -
>>> they proved to make excellent composts
>>>
>>> My favourite was cocoa husks - the garden smelt of chocolate! But it was
>>> as useless as anything else...
>>
>> I once got a mini-van load of spent hops from the local brewery (they
>> let you take as much as you liked for free) and spread it around
>> thickly as a mulch. After a few days it melt strongly
>> of...well...decomposing hops I suppose, not particularly nice and
>> certainly not beer!
>>
>
> I've done the same with the added bonus that they were all bagged up in
> very strong woven sacks that served well for rubble sacks :)
>
> I thought that the spent hops would make a good mulch but they quickly
> composted and disappeared into the soil.

I've found that almost anything I put on our solid clay is only useful
as a mulch. If it ever composts it takes ages and then disappears to be
replaced by solid clay! I've used shredded green stuff, shredded woody
stuff, mixes of the two, and thick layers of beech leaves. The latter
was the most interesting in a way as I thought it would make a good
compost. The worms, however, seemed to avoid it like the plague. I'd
forgotten that beech leaves remain on hedges throughout winter, and they
must be tough to do that. It had also completely passed me by that the
60+ft beech must have been shedding leaves for well over 50 years, yet
the "soil" under it was still almost solid clay. Where had all those
leaves gone?

--

Jeff

On 26/05/2023 07:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>

> I tried to make paths and weed suppressors  out of bark chippings  -
> they proved to make excellent composts
>
> My favourite was cocoa husks - the garden smelt of chocolate! But it was
> as useless as anything else...

Years ago, visiting my mother in her care home, I plunderede a number of
fine morels on the bark mulch.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 26/05/2023 07:43, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 26/05/2023 07:30, alan_m wrote:
>> On 26/05/2023 07:20, Chris Hogg wrote:
>>> On Fri, 26 May 2023 07:02:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I tried to make paths and weed suppressors  out of bark chippings  -
>>>> they proved to make excellent composts
>>>>
>>>> My favourite was cocoa husks - the garden smelt of chocolate! But it
>>>> was
>>>> as useless as anything else...
>>>
>>> I once got a mini-van load of spent hops from the local brewery (they
>>> let you take as much as you liked for free) and spread it around
>>> thickly as a mulch. After a few days it melt strongly
>>> of...well...decomposing hops I suppose, not particularly nice and
>>> certainly not beer!
>>>
>>
>> I've done the same with the added bonus that they were all bagged up in
>> very strong woven sacks that served well for rubble sacks :)
>>
>> I thought that the spent hops would make a good mulch but they quickly
>> composted and disappeared into the soil.
>
> I've found that almost anything I put on our solid clay is only useful
> as a mulch. If it ever composts it takes ages and then disappears to be
> replaced by solid clay! I've used shredded green stuff, shredded woody
> stuff, mixes of the two, and thick layers of beech leaves. The latter
> was the most interesting in a way as I thought it would make a good
> compost. The worms, however, seemed to avoid it like the plague. I'd
> forgotten that beech leaves remain on hedges throughout winter, and they
> must be tough to do that. It had also completely passed me by that the
> 60+ft beech must have been shedding leaves for well over 50 years, yet
> the "soil" under it was still almost solid clay. Where had all those
> leaves gone?
>

I had undisturbed thorn scrub over clay - there's about 2" of topsoil
from maybe 100 years of leaf mould...
Nature takes its time

--
“Ideas are inherently conservative. They yield not to the attack of
other ideas but to the massive onslaught of circumstance"

- John K Galbraith

On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 6:05:30 PM UTC+1, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 26/05/2023 07:43, Jeff Layman wrote:
> > On 26/05/2023 07:30, alan_m wrote:
> >> On 26/05/2023 07:20, Chris Hogg wrote:
> >>> On Fri, 26 May 2023 07:02:15 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
> >>> <t...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I tried to make paths and weed suppressors out of bark chippings -
> >>>> they proved to make excellent composts
> >>>>
> >>>> My favourite was cocoa husks - the garden smelt of chocolate! But it
> >>>> was
> >>>> as useless as anything else...
> >>>
> >>> I once got a mini-van load of spent hops from the local brewery (they
> >>> let you take as much as you liked for free) and spread it around
> >>> thickly as a mulch. After a few days it melt strongly
> >>> of...well...decomposing hops I suppose, not particularly nice and
> >>> certainly not beer!
> >>>
> >>
> >> I've done the same with the added bonus that they were all bagged up in
> >> very strong woven sacks that served well for rubble sacks :)
> >>
> >> I thought that the spent hops would make a good mulch but they quickly
> >> composted and disappeared into the soil.
> >
> > I've found that almost anything I put on our solid clay is only useful
> > as a mulch. If it ever composts it takes ages and then disappears to be
> > replaced by solid clay! I've used shredded green stuff, shredded woody
> > stuff, mixes of the two, and thick layers of beech leaves. The latter
> > was the most interesting in a way as I thought it would make a good
> > compost. The worms, however, seemed to avoid it like the plague. I'd
> > forgotten that beech leaves remain on hedges throughout winter, and they
> > must be tough to do that. It had also completely passed me by that the
> > 60+ft beech must have been shedding leaves for well over 50 years, yet
> > the "soil" under it was still almost solid clay. Where had all those
> > leaves gone?
> >
> I had undisturbed thorn scrub over clay - there's about 2" of topsoil
> from maybe 100 years of leaf mould...
> Nature takes its time
>
>
> --
> “Ideas are inherently conservative. They yield not to the attack of
> other ideas but to the massive onslaught of circumstance"
>
> - John K Galbraith

We buy bark chips and, compost , when we need it, by the m3 from a local commercial supplier. One year I found a rusty cut throat razor in the compost ??

Paul Mc Cann