Because there is one outside our station, and I could only get a low signal
level within a few yards of it. It seems an awful waste if each company has
its own masts.
Brian

--

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On Thu 21/03/2024 16:39, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Because there is one outside our station, and I could only get a low signal
> level within a few yards of it. It seems an awful waste if each company has
> its own masts.
> Brian
>

Generally you will find that most street masts carry either EE and
Three, or Vodafone and O2. This is because they have shared
distribution, Vodafone and O2 share under the Cornerstone project whilst
EE and Three share through MNBL which was set up in those wild days of
T-Mobile and Three.

Whilst I know it is an issue for you Brian, all street pole antennas
will have adjacent cabinets that are labelled with their ownership.

Also don't forget that the worst place to be standing when using a
street pole is directly alongside it below the aerials!

Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On Thu 21/03/2024 16:39, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> Because there is one outside our station, and I could only get a low signal
>> level within a few yards of it. It seems an awful waste if each company has
>> its own masts.
>> Brian
>>
>
> Generally you will find that most street masts carry either EE and
> Three, or Vodafone and O2. This is because they have shared
> distribution, Vodafone and O2 share under the Cornerstone project whilst
> EE and Three share through MNBL which was set up in those wild days of
> T-Mobile and Three.
>
> Whilst I know it is an issue for you Brian, all street pole antennas
> will have adjacent cabinets that are labelled with their ownership.
>
> Also don't forget that the worst place to be standing when using a
> street pole is directly alongside it below the aerials!
>

I think the o2/Vodafone EE/Three alliances are breaking down. New sites
round here don’t necessarily follow this system.

On Thu 21/03/2024 19:04, Tweed wrote:
> Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> On Thu 21/03/2024 16:39, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>> Because there is one outside our station, and I could only get a low signal
>>> level within a few yards of it. It seems an awful waste if each company has
>>> its own masts.
>>> Brian
>>>
>>
>> Generally you will find that most street masts carry either EE and
>> Three, or Vodafone and O2. This is because they have shared
>> distribution, Vodafone and O2 share under the Cornerstone project whilst
>> EE and Three share through MNBL which was set up in those wild days of
>> T-Mobile and Three.
>>
>> Whilst I know it is an issue for you Brian, all street pole antennas
>> will have adjacent cabinets that are labelled with their ownership.
>>
>> Also don't forget that the worst place to be standing when using a
>> street pole is directly alongside it below the aerials!
>>
>
> I think the o2/Vodafone EE/Three alliances are breaking down. New sites
> round here don’t necessarily follow this system.
>

Very unlikely as they are semi-independent companies. You will find for
instance that most planning applications for VM/O2 are made in the name
of Cornerstone whereas EE/Three sites are made under the name of
Hutchison. A new 4G/5G 18m pole just down the road was applied for by
Hutch and that was less than six months ago. The pole went up about two
months ago.

Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> On Thu 21/03/2024 16:39, Brian Gaff wrote:
> > Because there is one outside our station, and I could only get a low signal
> > level within a few yards of it. It seems an awful waste if each company has
> > its own masts.
> > Brian
> >
>
> Generally you will find that most street masts carry either EE and
> Three, or Vodafone and O2. This is because they have shared
> distribution, Vodafone and O2 share under the Cornerstone project whilst
> EE and Three share through MNBL which was set up in those wild days of
> T-Mobile and Three.
>
> Whilst I know it is an issue for you Brian, all street pole antennas
> will have adjacent cabinets that are labelled with their ownership.
>
> Also don't forget that the worst place to be standing when using a
> street pole is directly alongside it below the aerials!

Really? I thought the aerials were set up to give a horizontal
distribution.

The measurements I made some years ago showed that the signal directly
below the masts was quite weak but increased as I walked away from them
up a hill.

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu 21/03/2024 16:39, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>> Because there is one outside our station, and I could only get a low signal
>>> level within a few yards of it. It seems an awful waste if each company has
>>> its own masts.
>>> Brian
>>>
>>
>> Generally you will find that most street masts carry either EE and
>> Three, or Vodafone and O2. This is because they have shared
>> distribution, Vodafone and O2 share under the Cornerstone project whilst
>> EE and Three share through MNBL which was set up in those wild days of
>> T-Mobile and Three.
>>
>> Whilst I know it is an issue for you Brian, all street pole antennas
>> will have adjacent cabinets that are labelled with their ownership.
>>
>> Also don't forget that the worst place to be standing when using a
>> street pole is directly alongside it below the aerials!
>
> Really? I thought the aerials were set up to give a horizontal
> distribution.
>
> The measurements I made some years ago showed that the signal directly
> below the masts was quite weak but increased as I walked away from them
> up a hill.
>
>

If you look at the antenna panels most are tilted slightly downwards. In
high traffic, ie urban areas, the goal is to restrict the range of the
cell.

On Fri 22/03/2024 08:21, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu 21/03/2024 16:39, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>> Because there is one outside our station, and I could only get a low signal
>>> level within a few yards of it. It seems an awful waste if each company has
>>> its own masts.
>>> Brian
>>>
>>
>> Generally you will find that most street masts carry either EE and
>> Three, or Vodafone and O2. This is because they have shared
>> distribution, Vodafone and O2 share under the Cornerstone project whilst
>> EE and Three share through MNBL which was set up in those wild days of
>> T-Mobile and Three.
>>
>> Whilst I know it is an issue for you Brian, all street pole antennas
>> will have adjacent cabinets that are labelled with their ownership.
>>
>> Also don't forget that the worst place to be standing when using a
>> street pole is directly alongside it below the aerials!
>
> Really? I thought the aerials were set up to give a horizontal
> distribution.
>
> The measurements I made some years ago showed that the signal directly
> below the masts was quite weak but increased as I walked away from them
> up a hill.
>
>
Er, do you want to read that again Liz? What you said is essentially
what I said!

In terms of propagation a vertical dipole presents a signal field in
cross section not unlike an apple sliced vertically down the core. The
deepest null is directly above and below the aerial. Gain aerials on the
other hand achieve the gain simply by squashing that apple shape into
something more like a doughnut, so the signal reaches further out but
the signal loss immediately below the aerial is worse.
The 'rabbits ears' type were/are specifically designed to project the
signal outwards but by use of phasing harnesses the vertical aerial will
have a signal projection down-tilted by 5/10/15degs dependent upon
design need. Sometimes you will see the 'rabbit ears' tilted backwards
to give a bit of extra throw using the same physical aerials.
In a nutshell a post with say three aerials with 120deg beamwidth and
equally spaced around the pole will radiate a signal field that is not
unlike an old ('Home Office'?) white glass lampshade so it doesn't cover
too close or too far.

Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> On Fri 22/03/2024 08:21, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> > Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu 21/03/2024 16:39, Brian Gaff wrote: > Because there is one
> >>outside our station, and I could only get a low signal > level within a
> >>few yards of it. It seems an awful waste if each company has > its own
> >>masts. > Brian >
> >>
> >> Generally you will find that most street masts carry either EE and
> >> Three, or Vodafone and O2. This is because they have shared
> >> distribution, Vodafone and O2 share under the Cornerstone project whilst
> >> EE and Three share through MNBL which was set up in those wild days of
> >> T-Mobile and Three.
> >>
> >> Whilst I know it is an issue for you Brian, all street pole antennas
> >> will have adjacent cabinets that are labelled with their ownership.
> >>
> >> Also don't forget that the worst place to be standing when using a
> >> street pole is directly alongside it below the aerials!
> >
> > Really? I thought the aerials were set up to give a horizontal
> > distribution.
> >
> > The measurements I made some years ago showed that the signal directly
> > below the masts was quite weak but increased as I walked away from them
> > up a hill.
> >
> >
> Er, do you want to read that again Liz? What you said is essentially
> what I said!

Sorry, for some unknown reason I thought 'worst' was referring to signal
exposure or intermod or some other undesirable effect. For signal
strength you are perfectly correct. My mistake.

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

In article <uti0te$2coj0$1@dont-email.me>, Woody
<harrogate3@ntlworld.com> scribeth thus
>On Thu 21/03/2024 19:04, Tweed wrote:
>> Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu 21/03/2024 16:39, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>>> Because there is one outside our station, and I could only get a low signal
>>>> level within a few yards of it. It seems an awful waste if each company has
>>>> its own masts.
>>>> Brian
>>>>
>>>
>>> Generally you will find that most street masts carry either EE and
>>> Three, or Vodafone and O2. This is because they have shared
>>> distribution, Vodafone and O2 share under the Cornerstone project whilst
>>> EE and Three share through MNBL which was set up in those wild days of
>>> T-Mobile and Three.
>>>
>>> Whilst I know it is an issue for you Brian, all street pole antennas
>>> will have adjacent cabinets that are labelled with their ownership.
>>>
>>> Also don't forget that the worst place to be standing when using a
>>> street pole is directly alongside it below the aerials!
>>>
>>
>> I think the o2/Vodafone EE/Three alliances are breaking down. New sites
>> round here don’t necessarily follow this system.
>>
>
>Very unlikely as they are semi-independent companies. You will find for
>instance that most planning applications for VM/O2 are made in the name
>of Cornerstone whereas EE/Three sites are made under the name of
>Hutchison. A new 4G/5G 18m pole just down the road was applied for by
>Hutch and that was less than six months ago. The pole went up about two
>months ago.

Interesting reading in parts!..

https://www.cornerstone.network/
--
Tony Sayer

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

In article <1qqtb09.1bdppqz9yww5iN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>,
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> scribeth thus
>Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu 21/03/2024 16:39, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> > Because there is one outside our station, and I could only get a low signal
>> > level within a few yards of it. It seems an awful waste if each company has
>> > its own masts.
>> > Brian
>> >
>>
>> Generally you will find that most street masts carry either EE and
>> Three, or Vodafone and O2. This is because they have shared
>> distribution, Vodafone and O2 share under the Cornerstone project whilst
>> EE and Three share through MNBL which was set up in those wild days of
>> T-Mobile and Three.
>>
>> Whilst I know it is an issue for you Brian, all street pole antennas
>> will have adjacent cabinets that are labelled with their ownership.
>>
>> Also don't forget that the worst place to be standing when using a
>> street pole is directly alongside it below the aerials!
>
>Really? I thought the aerials were set up to give a horizontal
>distribution.
>
>The measurements I made some years ago showed that the signal directly
>below the masts was quite weak but increased as I walked away from them
>up a hill.
>
>

There will be a minima below the aerial system and as you walk away the
field will weaken with distance...

--
Tony Sayer

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

On 24/03/2024 13:55, tony sayer wrote:
> There will be a minima below the aerial system and as you walk away the
> field will weaken with distance...

It could always be a problem at work, trying to use a mobile phone on a
hilltop site that had mobile phone antenna on the tower.

No there are currently some short poles going up alongside the railway
tracks here, only about half a mile apart, and I'd have thought this would
have all the networks on the aerials.

Brian

--

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The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Tweed" <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:uti0ce$2cmr1$1@dont-email.me...
> Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> On Thu 21/03/2024 16:39, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>> Because there is one outside our station, and I could only get a low
>>> signal
>>> level within a few yards of it. It seems an awful waste if each company
>>> has
>>> its own masts.
>>> Brian
>>>
>>
>> Generally you will find that most street masts carry either EE and
>> Three, or Vodafone and O2. This is because they have shared
>> distribution, Vodafone and O2 share under the Cornerstone project whilst
>> EE and Three share through MNBL which was set up in those wild days of
>> T-Mobile and Three.
>>
>> Whilst I know it is an issue for you Brian, all street pole antennas
>> will have adjacent cabinets that are labelled with their ownership.
>>
>> Also don't forget that the worst place to be standing when using a
>> street pole is directly alongside it below the aerials!
>>
>
> I think the o2/Vodafone EE/Three alliances are breaking down. New sites
> round here don't necessarily follow this system.
>

Often around here they seldom name a carrier only the name of an agent. They
are usually a lot taller than the current pole if they are replacing them.
They also say things like monopole with 7 aerials and wrap around cabinet at
the base and that is about it. Some com up as /not and others as /tel.
Apparently /not is notification of intent, where as the others are
telecommunications, quite why they have two designations is not clear.

Brian

--

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The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Woody" <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:uti0te$2coj0$1@dont-email.me...
> On Thu 21/03/2024 19:04, Tweed wrote:
>> Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu 21/03/2024 16:39, Brian Gaff wrote:
>>>> Because there is one outside our station, and I could only get a low
>>>> signal
>>>> level within a few yards of it. It seems an awful waste if each company
>>>> has
>>>> its own masts.
>>>> Brian
>>>>
>>>
>>> Generally you will find that most street masts carry either EE and
>>> Three, or Vodafone and O2. This is because they have shared
>>> distribution, Vodafone and O2 share under the Cornerstone project whilst
>>> EE and Three share through MNBL which was set up in those wild days of
>>> T-Mobile and Three.
>>>
>>> Whilst I know it is an issue for you Brian, all street pole antennas
>>> will have adjacent cabinets that are labelled with their ownership.
>>>
>>> Also don't forget that the worst place to be standing when using a
>>> street pole is directly alongside it below the aerials!
>>>
>>
>> I think the o2/Vodafone EE/Three alliances are breaking down. New sites
>> round here don't necessarily follow this system.
>>
>
> Very unlikely as they are semi-independent companies. You will find for
> instance that most planning applications for VM/O2 are made in the name of
> Cornerstone whereas EE/Three sites are made under the name of Hutchison. A
> new 4G/5G 18m pole just down the road was applied for by Hutch and that
> was less than six months ago. The pole went up about two months ago.

I think that was what they were saying, but apparently a lot of the aerial
panels appear to be aimed downward slightly. I would not know what sort of
radiation pattern they were aiming for. Brian

--

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briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Liz Tuddenham" <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:1qqtb09.1bdppqz9yww5iN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid...
> Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu 21/03/2024 16:39, Brian Gaff wrote:
>> > Because there is one outside our station, and I could only get a low
>> > signal
>> > level within a few yards of it. It seems an awful waste if each company
>> > has
>> > its own masts.
>> > Brian
>> >
>>
>> Generally you will find that most street masts carry either EE and
>> Three, or Vodafone and O2. This is because they have shared
>> distribution, Vodafone and O2 share under the Cornerstone project whilst
>> EE and Three share through MNBL which was set up in those wild days of
>> T-Mobile and Three.
>>
>> Whilst I know it is an issue for you Brian, all street pole antennas
>> will have adjacent cabinets that are labelled with their ownership.
>>
>> Also don't forget that the worst place to be standing when using a
>> street pole is directly alongside it below the aerials!
>
> Really? I thought the aerials were set up to give a horizontal
> distribution.
>
> The measurements I made some years ago showed that the signal directly
> below the masts was quite weak but increased as I walked away from them
> up a hill.
>
>
> --
> ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
> (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
> www.poppyrecords.co.uk

On Tue 26/03/2024 11:57, Brian Gaff wrote:
> No there are currently some short poles going up alongside the railway
> tracks here, only about half a mile apart, and I'd have thought this would
> have all the networks on the aerials.
>
> Brian
>

If they are alongside railway tracks they will likely be G S M R or
railway radio.

There are some cells that appear to be situated for max coverage, no doubt
to cover them if a cell goes off or there is a hole somewhere. One near
here is apparently on the top of Tolworth Tower along with many other types
of aerial, including the local FM station. I suspect the other side of this
coin are the ones along railway tracks which probably are lowest power but
there a lot of them.
I often wonder how these manage to receive the week signals form the mobile
itself, considering the large number of people trying to use it at the same
time.
Brian

--

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Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"JMB99" <mb@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:utrenm$106p5$1@dont-email.me...
> On 24/03/2024 13:55, tony sayer wrote:
>> There will be a minima below the aerial system and as you walk away the
>> field will weaken with distance...
>
>
>
> It could always be a problem at work, trying to use a mobile phone on a
> hilltop site that had mobile phone antenna on the tower.
>
>

On 26/03/2024 12:07, Brian Gaff wrote:
> I think that was what they were saying, but apparently a lot of the aerial
> panels appear to be aimed downward slightly. I would not know what sort of
> radiation pattern they were aiming for. Brian

Beam Tilt, just following the practice with broadcast antenna.

JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:

> On 26/03/2024 12:07, Brian Gaff wrote:
> > I think that was what they were saying, but apparently a lot of the aerial
> > panels appear to be aimed downward slightly. I would not know what sort of
> > radiation pattern they were aiming for. Brian
>
>
> Beam Tilt, just following the practice with broadcast antenna.

There are two aerials near here situated on hillsides, but there is no
visible evidence of tilt. In both cases, once you are out of the
immediate dead zone around the foot of the mast, the signal gets
stronger as you go away from the mast in an uphill direction and is not
nearly so strong downhill.

In one case, the strongest signal is in a road along the hillside which
is on the same level as the mast top.. The horizontal line-of-sight
passes through the bedrooms of the rank of houses just below the road.

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk