I have already grown potatoes twice in the same piece if ground. This is aganst recommendations of a 4 year rotation cycle. Is there anything I could do to the soil to facilitate growing them againi the same area?

On 27/08/2023 12:33, Paul Mc Cann wrote:
> I have already grown potatoes twice in the same piece if ground. This is aganst recommendations of a 4 year rotation cycle. Is there anything I could do to the soil to facilitate growing them againi the same area?
>
Not really: the recommendation is to guardagainst blight rather than
allow nutrients to regenerate.

In the Western Isles I have known someone to grow 'black potatoes' in
the same (Lazy) bed year after year, with an annual dressing of
rotted-down old grass thatch, bladder-wrack, kelp and cleanings from the
byre.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 27/08/2023 12:33, Paul Mc Cann wrote:
> I have already grown potatoes twice in the same piece if ground. This is aganst recommendations of a 4 year rotation cycle. Is there anything I could do to the soil to facilitate growing them againi the same area?

We have some people on our allotment site that mainly groww potatoes so
they are always in the same ground. I suspected they would eventually
suffer from a buildup of pests and disease but it appears not.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden

On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 10:41:56 PM UTC+1, Bob Hobden wrote:
> On 27/08/2023 12:33, Paul Mc Cann wrote:
> > I have already grown potatoes twice in the same piece if ground. This is aganst recommendations of a 4 year rotation cycle. Is there anything I could do to the soil to facilitate growing them againi the same area?
> We have some people on our allotment site that mainly groww potatoes so
> they are always in the same ground. I suspected they would eventually
> suffer from a buildup of pests and disease but it appears not.
>
> --
> Regards
> Bob Hobden

Bob, thats heartening, I'll just do the usual and dig in a lot of compost. Results thisyear were varying, The first row of Kerrs Pinks was very poor. a few small potatoes. The adjacent row was much better Lots of big ones, whicg SWMBO prefers. Nearby Roosters, again a poor yield but some big ones

On Mon, 28 Aug 2023 01:54:12 -0700 (PDT), Paul Mc Cann
<tpmccann@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 10:41:56?PM UTC+1, Bob Hobden wrote:
>> On 27/08/2023 12:33, Paul Mc Cann wrote:
>> > I have already grown potatoes twice in the same piece if ground. This is aganst recommendations of a 4 year rotation cycle. Is there anything I could do to the soil to facilitate growing them againi the same area?
>> We have some people on our allotment site that mainly groww potatoes so
>> they are always in the same ground. I suspected they would eventually
>> suffer from a buildup of pests and disease but it appears not.
>>
>> --
>> Regards
>> Bob Hobden
>
>Bob, thats heartening, I'll just do the usual and dig in a lot of compost. Results thisyear were varying, The first row of Kerrs Pinks was very poor. a few small potatoes. The adjacent row was much better Lots of big ones, whicg SWMBO prefers. Nearby Roosters, again a poor yield but some big ones

Jersey Royal potatoes are not rotated - they don't have enough space
to be able to do that - and they are traditionally fertilised every
year with masses of seaweed. They do have problems with potato cyst
nematode but they use natural methods to combat it (yellow mustard and
prickly potato).
https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2022/03/28/a-growing-solution/

--
Chris

Gardening in West Cornwall, very mild, sheltered
from the West, but open to the North and East.

On 28/08/2023 10:30, Chris Hogg wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Aug 2023 01:54:12 -0700 (PDT), Paul Mc Cann
> <tpmccann@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 10:41:56?PM UTC+1, Bob Hobden wrote:
>>> On 27/08/2023 12:33, Paul Mc Cann wrote:
>>>> I have already grown potatoes twice in the same piece if ground. This is aganst recommendations of a 4 year rotation cycle. Is there anything I could do to the soil to facilitate growing them againi the same area?
>>> We have some people on our allotment site that mainly groww potatoes so
>>> they are always in the same ground. I suspected they would eventually
>>> suffer from a buildup of pests and disease but it appears not.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Regards
>>> Bob Hobden
>>
>> Bob, thats heartening, I'll just do the usual and dig in a lot of compost. Results thisyear were varying, The first row of Kerrs Pinks was very poor. a few small potatoes. The adjacent row was much better Lots of big ones, whicg SWMBO prefers. Nearby Roosters, again a poor yield but some big ones
>
> Jersey Royal potatoes are not rotated - they don't have enough space
> to be able to do that - and they are traditionally fertilised every
> year with masses of seaweed. They do have problems with potato cyst
> nematode but they use natural methods to combat it (yellow mustard and
> prickly potato).
> https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2022/03/28/a-growing-solution/

That article is a mixture of BS and fact.

Just about everyone who remembers what Jersey Royals *used* to taste
like agrees that nowadays they have very little flavour difference from
any other new potatoes. I gave up buying them 10 years ago as their
flavour always disappointed me. The reason is simply that very few
farmers now collect and spread the seaweed (vraic) as it's just too
labour intensive and expensive to do it, and that's what used to give
Jersey Royals their unique and wonderful flavour. To be fair, the
article doesn't mention seaweed at all! But it also states "As the
Island is the only place in the world where Jersey Royals can be grown,
it is imperative that this valuable export crop is protected". That's
nonsense, as the potatoes are grow in many places, but under the real
varietal name of "International Kidney". They can only have the name
"Jersey Royal" if International Kidney is grown in Jersey, so it's more
than a bit misleading to state that Jersey is the only place they can be
grown. (<https://www.potatohouse.co.uk/product/international-kidney/>).

--

Jeff

In article <ucfdo8$15bbj$1@dont-email.me>,
RustyHinge <rusty.hinge@foobar.girolle.co.uk> wrote:
>On 27/08/2023 12:33, Paul Mc Cann wrote:
>> I have already grown potatoes twice in the same piece if ground. This
>is aganst recommendations of a 4 year rotation cycle. Is there anything
>I could do to the soil to facilitate growing them againi the same area?
>>
>Not really: the recommendation is to guardagainst blight rather than
>allow nutrients to regenerate.

Not really blight - that's almost entirely wind-spread, and dependent
on weather conditions. It's soil-borne diseases like spraing, the
two types of eelworm, wart disease etc. My soil has spraing, badly,
though I don't know why, and both kinds of eelworm, so I can't really
grow decent potatoes more than one year in 5-10.

Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 28/08/2023 11:28, Jeff Layman wrote:
> That article is a mixture of BS and fact.
>
> Just about everyone who remembers what Jersey Royals *used* to taste
> like agrees that nowadays they have very little flavour difference from
> any other new potatoes. I gave up buying them 10 years ago as their
> flavour always disappointed me. The reason is simply that very few
> farmers now collect and spread the seaweed (vraic) as it's just too
> labour intensive and expensive to do it, and that's what used to give
> Jersey Royals their unique and wonderful flavour. To be fair, the
> article doesn't mention seaweed at all! But it also states "As the
> Island is the only place in the world where Jersey Royals can be grown,
> it is imperative that this valuable export crop is protected". That's
> nonsense, as the potatoes are grow in many places, but under the real
> varietal name of "International Kidney". They can only have the name
> "Jersey Royal" if International Kidney is grown in Jersey, so it's more
> than a bit misleading to state that Jersey is the only place they can be
> grown. (<https://www.potatohouse.co.uk/product/international-kidney/>).

Whether it's BS or not is a matter of opinion. They've managed to get
protected designation of origin (PDO) status.

Just as you can buy decent sparkling white wine made in the UK using the
exact same methods and grapes used in the Champagne region of France -
but it's not Champagne.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_Royal>

mentions it.

Andy

On 28/08/2023 21:31, Vir Campestris wrote:
> On 28/08/2023 11:28, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> That article is a mixture of BS and fact.
>>
>> Just about everyone who remembers what Jersey Royals *used* to taste
>> like agrees that nowadays they have very little flavour difference from
>> any other new potatoes. I gave up buying them 10 years ago as their
>> flavour always disappointed me. The reason is simply that very few
>> farmers now collect and spread the seaweed (vraic) as it's just too
>> labour intensive and expensive to do it, and that's what used to give
>> Jersey Royals their unique and wonderful flavour. To be fair, the
>> article doesn't mention seaweed at all! But it also states "As the
>> Island is the only place in the world where Jersey Royals can be grown,
>> it is imperative that this valuable export crop is protected". That's
>> nonsense, as the potatoes are grow in many places, but under the real
>> varietal name of "International Kidney". They can only have the name
>> "Jersey Royal" if International Kidney is grown in Jersey, so it's more
>> than a bit misleading to state that Jersey is the only place they can be
>> grown. (<https://www.potatohouse.co.uk/product/international-kidney/>).
>
> Whether it's BS or not is a matter of opinion. They've managed to get
> protected designation of origin (PDO) status.

Maybe it's just a matter of semantics, but Jersey Royals don't exist
until they're harvested and /sold/ as Jersey Royals. Until then they are
growing from International Kidney seed potatoes.

> Just as you can buy decent sparkling white wine made in the UK using the
> exact same methods and grapes used in the Champagne region of France -
> but it's not Champagne

That's true. I think the problem with Jersey Royals is that, in the
main, they are no longer grown in the traditional Jersey manner using
seaweed. In that case, why does the PDO still exist? I wonder if a PDO
has ever been rescinded if there's been a material change to a product
with a PDO.

--

Jeff

On 28/08/2023 21:31, Vir Campestris wrote:
> On 28/08/2023 11:28, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> That article is a mixture of BS and fact.
>>
>> Just about everyone who remembers what Jersey Royals *used* to taste
>> like agrees that nowadays they have very little flavour difference
>> from any other new potatoes. I gave up buying them 10 years ago as
>> their flavour always disappointed me. The reason is simply that very
>> few farmers now collect and spread the seaweed (vraic) as it's just
>> too labour intensive and expensive to do it, and that's what used to
>> give Jersey Royals their unique and wonderful flavour. To be fair, the
>> article doesn't mention seaweed at all! But it also states "As the
>> Island is the only place in the world where Jersey Royals can be
>> grown, it is imperative that this valuable export crop is protected".
>> That's nonsense, as the potatoes are grow in many places, but under
>> the real varietal name of "International Kidney". They can only have
>> the name "Jersey Royal" if International Kidney is grown in Jersey, so
>> it's more than a bit misleading to state that Jersey is the only place
>> they can be grown.
>> (<https://www.potatohouse.co.uk/product/international-kidney/>).
>
> Whether it's BS or not is a matter of opinion. They've managed to get
> protected designation of origin (PDO) status.
>
> Just as you can buy decent sparkling white wine made in the UK using the
> exact same methods and grapes used in the Champagne region of France -
> but it's not Champagne.
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_Royal>
>
> mentions it.
But...

The terroir is just as important as the yeast and the methods: indeed,
winesfrom adjacent vinyards can often be distinguished.

When I was in my teens I found a Black Hamburg vine in the garden where
once there had been a greenhouse. It had skulked there in a corner
entwined in a hedge, unnoticed for a few years after we moved into the
property, but just the right conditions produced a huge and unexpected
crop of grapes - small, true, but enough for me to make several gallons
of wine.

It was like no wine I'd ever tasted before (being IIRC 14 at the time,
though. I can't claim a lot of tasting experience), and more to the
point I could never even approximately reproduce its flavour with even
Black Hamburg grown elsewhere.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 28/08/2023 16:15, Nick Maclaren wrote:
> In article <ucfdo8$15bbj$1@dont-email.me>,
> RustyHinge <rusty.hinge@foobar.girolle.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 27/08/2023 12:33, Paul Mc Cann wrote:
>>> I have already grown potatoes twice in the same piece if ground. This
>> is aganst recommendations of a 4 year rotation cycle. Is there anything
>> I could do to the soil to facilitate growing them againi the same area?
>>>
>> Not really: the recommendation is to guardagainst blight rather than
>> allow nutrients to regenerate.
>
> Not really blight - that's almost entirely wind-spread, and dependent
> on weather conditions. It's soil-borne diseases like spraing, the
> two types of eelworm, wart disease etc. My soil has spraing, badly,
> though I don't know why, and both kinds of eelworm, so I can't really
> grow decent potatoes more than one year in 5-10.

I used to have access to spent mushroom compost and used fertiliser
sacks, and I'd to grow potatoes in those. One method was to put a few
inches of compost in and put four chitted spuds in a sack. 'Earth' them
up as they grew, planting four chitted spuds each time until the whole
bundle of stalks could be tied-up into a potato tree. Come the late
autumn the sacks would be full of potatoes from 'ripe' to 'new'.

The other method was to cut holes down the sides of the sacks and plant
seed potatoes in the holes. That way you got a crop which was fairly
homogeneously 'ready' when you harvested them.

That should get over your soil problems - if you rally *really* want to
grow your own

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 28/08/2023 10:30, Chris Hogg wrote:

> Jersey Royal potatoes are not rotated - they don't have enough space
> to be able to do that - and they are traditionally fertilised every
> year with masses of seaweed.

I've found Jersey Royals on sale to be rather tasteless in recent years,
perhaps because they are no longer using traditional methods of
fertilising with seaweed.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 28/08/2023 21:31, Vir Campestris wrote:

>
> Just as you can buy decent sparkling white wine made in the UK using the
> exact same methods and grapes used in the Champagne region of France -
> but it's not Champagne.

Isn't the sparkle in champagne just a way of disguising what is in
reality just a poor wine?

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 29/08/2023 01:19, RustyHinge wrote:
> On 28/08/2023 21:31, Vir Campestris wrote:
>> On 28/08/2023 11:28, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>> That article is a mixture of BS and fact.
>>>
>>> Just about everyone who remembers what Jersey Royals *used* to taste
>>> like agrees that nowadays they have very little flavour difference
>>> from any other new potatoes. I gave up buying them 10 years ago as
>>> their flavour always disappointed me. The reason is simply that very
>>> few farmers now collect and spread the seaweed (vraic) as it's just
>>> too labour intensive and expensive to do it, and that's what used to
>>> give Jersey Royals their unique and wonderful flavour. To be fair,
>>> the article doesn't mention seaweed at all! But it also states "As
>>> the Island is the only place in the world where Jersey Royals can be
>>> grown, it is imperative that this valuable export crop is protected".
>>> That's nonsense, as the potatoes are grow in many places, but under
>>> the real varietal name of "International Kidney". They can only have
>>> the name "Jersey Royal" if International Kidney is grown in Jersey,
>>> so it's more than a bit misleading to state that Jersey is the only
>>> place they can be grown.
>>> (<https://www.potatohouse.co.uk/product/international-kidney/>).
>>
>> Whether it's BS or not is a matter of opinion. They've managed to get
>> protected designation of origin (PDO) status.
>>
>> Just as you can buy decent sparkling white wine made in the UK using
>> the exact same methods and grapes used in the Champagne region of
>> France - but it's not Champagne.
>>
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_Royal>
>>
>> mentions it.
> But...
>
> The terroir is just as important as the yeast and the methods: indeed,
> winesfrom adjacent vinyards can often be distinguished.
>
> When I was in my teens I found a Black Hamburg vine in the garden where
> once there had been a greenhouse. It had skulked there in a corner
> entwined in a hedge, unnoticed for a few years after we moved into the
> property, but just the right conditions produced a huge and unexpected
> crop of grapes - small, true, but enough for me to make several gallons
> of wine.
>
> It was like no wine I'd ever tasted before (being IIRC 14 at the time,
> though. I can't claim a lot of tasting experience), and more to the
> point I could never even approximately reproduce its flavour with even
> Black Hamburg grown elsewhere.
>
Its the same with anything. Estuary ducks like teal and widgeon taste of
seafood, Pond ducks like mallard taste of muddy pondweed.

Jersey Royals don't taste as good ass they used to. My guess is the lack
of rotting seaweed.

--
"When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics."

Josef Stalin

On 29/08/2023 07:50, alan_m wrote:
> On 28/08/2023 21:31, Vir Campestris wrote:
>
>>
>> Just as you can buy decent sparkling white wine made in the UK using
>> the exact same methods and grapes used in the Champagne region of
>> France - but it's not Champagne.
>
> Isn't the sparkle in champagne just a way of disguising what is in
> reality just a poor wine?

IMO, yes. I dislike champagne. Real pagne too. I don't despise a touch
of frémissance, though.

Fizz is for kids.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On Tuesday, August 29, 2023 at 1:39:51 AM UTC+1, RustyHinge wrote:
> On 28/08/2023 16:15, Nick Maclaren wrote:
> > In article <ucfdo8$15bbj$1...@dont-email.me>,
> > RustyHinge <rusty...@foobar.girolle.co.uk> wrote:
> >> On 27/08/2023 12:33, Paul Mc Cann wrote:
> >>> I have already grown potatoes twice in the same piece if ground. This
> >> is aganst recommendations of a 4 year rotation cycle. Is there anything
> >> I could do to the soil to facilitate growing them againi the same area?
> >>>
> >> Not really: the recommendation is to guardagainst blight rather than
> >> allow nutrients to regenerate.
> >
> > Not really blight - that's almost entirely wind-spread, and dependent
> > on weather conditions. It's soil-borne diseases like spraing, the
> > two types of eelworm, wart disease etc. My soil has spraing, badly,
> > though I don't know why, and both kinds of eelworm, so I can't really
> > grow decent potatoes more than one year in 5-10.
> I used to have access to spent mushroom compost and used fertiliser
> sacks, and I'd to grow potatoes in those. One method was to put a few
> inches of compost in and put four chitted spuds in a sack. 'Earth' them
> up as they grew, planting four chitted spuds each time until the whole
> bundle of stalks could be tied-up into a potato tree. Come the late
> autumn the sacks would be full of potatoes from 'ripe' to 'new'.
>
> The other method was to cut holes down the sides of the sacks and plant
> seed potatoes in the holes. That way you got a crop which was fairly
> homogeneously 'ready' when you harvested them.
>
> That should get over your soil problems - if you rally *really* want to
> grow your own
> --
> Rusty Hinge
> To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

Are you talking about plastic fertiliser bags ?

On 29/08/2023 11:23, Paul Mc Cann wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 29, 2023 at 1:39:51 AM UTC+1, RustyHinge wrote:
>> On 28/08/2023 16:15, Nick Maclaren wrote:
>>> In article <ucfdo8$15bbj$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>> RustyHinge <rusty...@foobar.girolle.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 27/08/2023 12:33, Paul Mc Cann wrote:
>>>>> I have already grown potatoes twice in the same piece if ground. This
>>>> is aganst recommendations of a 4 year rotation cycle. Is there anything
>>>> I could do to the soil to facilitate growing them againi the same area?
>>>>>
>>>> Not really: the recommendation is to guardagainst blight rather than
>>>> allow nutrients to regenerate.
>>>
>>> Not really blight - that's almost entirely wind-spread, and dependent
>>> on weather conditions. It's soil-borne diseases like spraing, the
>>> two types of eelworm, wart disease etc. My soil has spraing, badly,
>>> though I don't know why, and both kinds of eelworm, so I can't really
>>> grow decent potatoes more than one year in 5-10.
>> I used to have access to spent mushroom compost and used fertiliser
>> sacks, and I'd to grow potatoes in those. One method was to put a few
>> inches of compost in and put four chitted spuds in a sack. 'Earth' them
>> up as they grew, planting four chitted spuds each time until the whole
>> bundle of stalks could be tied-up into a potato tree. Come the late
>> autumn the sacks would be full of potatoes from 'ripe' to 'new'.
>>
>> The other method was to cut holes down the sides of the sacks and plant
>> seed potatoes in the holes. That way you got a crop which was fairly
>> homogeneously 'ready' when you harvested them.
>>
>> That should get over your soil problems - if you rally *really* want to
>> grow your own
>> --
>> Rusty Hinge
>> To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.
>
>
> Are you talking about plastic fertiliser bags ?
>
indeed yes.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.