On 27/04/2023 14:50, JNugent wrote:
> On 27/04/2023 02:34 pm, Nick Finnigan wrote:
>> On 23/04/2023 17:41, JNugent wrote:
>>> On 23/04/2023 05:37 pm, Nick Finnigan wrote:
>>>> On 23/04/2023 17:24, JNugent wrote:
>>>>> On 23/04/2023 05:14 pm, Nick Finnigan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 23/04/2023 14:39, JNugent wrote:
>>>>>>> On 23/04/2023 05:00 am, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is Mr Arsehole going soft in his old age?
>>>>>>>> He says:
>>>>>>>> QUOTE: Of course, there are times when it remains a danger for
>>>>>>>> cyclists to be on the road, say because of potholes or debris, so
>>>>>>>> they have no choice but to go on to the pavement. ENDS
>>>>>>>> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11998001/Celebrity-lawyer-Mr-Loophole-says-cyclists-display-numberplates.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If there is nowhere to ride one's fairy-cycle except for the
>>>>>>> footway, the fairy-cycle should be left at home.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   Dismounting is an alternative.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's beneath the imaginary dignity of the typical over entitled
>>>>> fairy-cyclist, though.
>>>>>
>>>>> I expect they "think" it would make them look like a tit to be
>>>>> courteous and considerate to pedestrians.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Riding a fairy-cycle on the footway is a criminal offence. It
>>>>>>> doesn't matter what *anyone* says about it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   What does the law say about riding on a *footway* ?
>>>>>
>>>>> In short: "Don't do it. It's an offence".
>>>>>
>>>>> The Highway Act 1835 (in part, still in force, never repealed):
>>>>
>>>>   for England and Wales.
>>>>
>>>>> QUOTE:
>>>>> Section 72:
>>>>>
>>>>> "If any person shall wilfully ride upon any footpath or causeway by
>>>>> the side of any road made or set apart for the use or accommodation of
>>>>> foot passengers; or shall wilfully lead or drive any horse, ass,
>>>>> sheep, mule, swine, or cattle or carriage of any description, or any
>>>>> truck or sledge, upon any such footpath or causeway; or shall tether
>>>>> any horse, ass, mule, swine, or cattle, on any highway, so as to
>>>>> suffer or permit the tethered animal to be thereon."
>>>>
>>>>   No mention of *footway*.
>>>>
>>>>> This clause is referred to by the current Highway Code:
>>>>>
>>>>> Rule 64: You MUST NOT cycle on a pavement. HA 1835 sect 72 & R(S)A
>>>>> sect 129[5]
>>>>>
>>>>> Rule 145, 1988: "You MUST NOT drive on or over a pavement, footpath or
>>>>> bridleway except to gain lawful access to property, or in the case of
>>>>> an emergency."
>>>>> ENDQUOTE
>>>>>
>>>>> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_Act_1835]
>>>>
>>>>   No mention of *footway*.
>>>
>>> The description is:
>>>
>>> "...footpath or causeway by the side of any road made or set apart for
>>> the use or accommodation of foot passengers...".
>>>
>>> That's what is now referred to (in highway terms) as a footway.
>>
>>   Footpaths and footways were different (in highway terms) in 1835, and now.
>>
>> The Roads (Scotland) Act 1984 Section 129 is clearer:
>> (5)Subject to section 64 of this Act, a person who, in a footway,
>> footpath or cycle track, as the case may be drives, rides, leads or
>> propels a vehicle or horse, or any swine or cattle, commits an offence:
>
> That Act is obviously of much more recent vintage.
>
> However, the 1835 Act is totally clear when it mentions "footpath or
> causeway by the side of any road". That is what we now call a footway and
> could not be mistaken for anything else.

Er, no, we certainly don't call a causeway a footway.

> Trust me, there *are* occasional prosecutions for the very selfish offence
> of riding a fairy-cycle along (as opposed to across) a footway and the
> wording of the 1835 Act does not cause a problem for the prosecuting
> authorities or for the courts.
>
> Interestingly, in the Scottish legislation you quoted, unless a fairy-cycle
> doesn't count as a vehicle in Scotland, it is an offence to ride one along
> a cycle track (WTMB)!

It goes on to allow exceptions, including
"in relation to a pedal cycle which is either not being ridden or is being
ridden on a cycle track"

On 20/05/2023 09:52 am, Nick Finnigan wrote:
> On 27/04/2023 14:50, JNugent wrote:
>> On 27/04/2023 02:34 pm, Nick Finnigan wrote:
>>> On 23/04/2023 17:41, JNugent wrote:
>>>> On 23/04/2023 05:37 pm, Nick Finnigan wrote:
>>>>> On 23/04/2023 17:24, JNugent wrote:
>>>>>> On 23/04/2023 05:14 pm, Nick Finnigan wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 23/04/2023 14:39, JNugent wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 23/04/2023 05:00 am, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Is Mr Arsehole going soft in his old age?
>>>>>>>>> He says:
>>>>>>>>> QUOTE: Of course, there are times when it remains a danger for
>>>>>>>>> cyclists to be on the road, say because of potholes or debris,
>>>>>>>>> so they have no choice but to go on to the pavement. ENDS
>>>>>>>>> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11998001/Celebrity-lawyer-Mr-Loophole-says-cyclists-display-numberplates.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If there is nowhere to ride one's fairy-cycle except for the
>>>>>>>> footway, the fairy-cycle should be left at home.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   Dismounting is an alternative.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's beneath the imaginary dignity of the typical over entitled
>>>>>> fairy-cyclist, though.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I expect they "think" it would make them look like a tit to be
>>>>>> courteous and considerate to pedestrians.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Riding a fairy-cycle on the footway is a criminal offence. It
>>>>>>>> doesn't matter what *anyone* says about it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   What does the law say about riding on a *footway* ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In short: "Don't do it. It's an offence".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Highway Act 1835 (in part, still in force, never repealed):
>>>>>
>>>>>   for England and Wales.
>>>>>
>>>>>> QUOTE:
>>>>>> Section 72:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "If any person shall wilfully ride upon any footpath or causeway
>>>>>> by the side of any road made or set apart for the use or
>>>>>> accommodation of foot passengers; or shall wilfully lead or drive
>>>>>> any horse, ass, sheep, mule, swine, or cattle or carriage of any
>>>>>> description, or any truck or sledge, upon any such footpath or
>>>>>> causeway; or shall tether any horse, ass, mule, swine, or cattle,
>>>>>> on any highway, so as to suffer or permit the tethered animal to
>>>>>> be thereon."
>>>>>
>>>>>   No mention of *footway*.
>>>>>
>>>>>> This clause is referred to by the current Highway Code:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rule 64: You MUST NOT cycle on a pavement. HA 1835 sect 72 & R(S)A
>>>>>> sect 129[5]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rule 145, 1988: "You MUST NOT drive on or over a pavement,
>>>>>> footpath or bridleway except to gain lawful access to property, or
>>>>>> in the case of an emergency."
>>>>>> ENDQUOTE
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_Act_1835]
>>>>>
>>>>>   No mention of *footway*.
>>>>
>>>> The description is:
>>>>
>>>> "...footpath or causeway by the side of any road made or set apart
>>>> for the use or accommodation of foot passengers...".
>>>>
>>>> That's what is now referred to (in highway terms) as a footway.
>>>
>>>   Footpaths and footways were different (in highway terms) in 1835,
>>> and now.
>>>
>>> The Roads (Scotland) Act 1984 Section 129 is clearer:
>>> (5)Subject to section 64 of this Act, a person who, in a footway,
>>> footpath or cycle track, as the case may be drives, rides, leads or
>>> propels a vehicle or horse, or any swine or cattle, commits an offence:
>>
>> That Act is obviously of much more recent vintage.
>>
>> However, the 1835 Act is totally clear when it mentions "footpath or
>> causeway by the side of any road". That is what we now call a footway
>> and could not be mistaken for anything else.
>
>  Er, no, we certainly don't call a causeway a footway.

But they did have that (alternative) description and term for it at the
time of the 1835 Act.
>
>> Trust me, there *are* occasional prosecutions for the very selfish
>> offence of riding a fairy-cycle along (as opposed to across) a footway
>> and the wording of the 1835 Act does not cause a problem for the
>> prosecuting authorities or for the courts.
>>
>> Interestingly, in the Scottish legislation you quoted, unless a
>> fairy-cycle doesn't count as a vehicle in Scotland, it is an offence
>> to ride one along a cycle track (WTMB)!
>
>  It goes on to allow exceptions, including

> "in relation to a pedal cycle which is either not being ridden or is
> being ridden on a cycle track"

Spoilsport.