My prediction for the final - India vs Oz

I know i say this every tourny, so sooner or later it will happen.

However, both have played a lot recently, and oz have picked up some
injuries to agar and head.

Dark Horse team: Pakistan. Often start badly but then come good.

As for engalnd, they are a bit ageing, their bowling is a bit weak,
and their spinners dont usually do well in india.

I def prefer the format this time, got rid of the groups, now everyone
has to play each other, surely more equitable, if rather long drawn out;
have to play 9 games before we get to the knockouts. How many of
our bowlers will still be fit? Cant see wood playing 9 games in a month.

mike

On 10/3/2023 6:57 AM, mike wrote:
> My prediction for the final - India vs Oz
>
> I know i say this every tourny, so sooner or later it will happen.
>

I DON'T have confidence in Rohit Sharma's captaincy who DOESN'T
IMPROVISE depending on the game situation.

He follows pre-determined plan almost all the time, he expresses too
much EMOTION instead of FOCUSING on TACTICS every time a catch is
dropped or mis-fielded to four or bowlers give away too many runs in an
over.

> However, both have played a lot recently, and oz have picked up some
> injuries to agar and head.

England starts a favorite too with match turners and winners in Stokes,
Butler, Brook, Bairstow and in left armers like Topley who Indian
batsmen have weakness against.

>
> Dark Horse team: Pakistan. Often start badly but then come good.
>

Their odds are reduced because of injuries to their main strike bowlers
Naseem Shah and Haris Rauf who wont play for a couple of weeks.

> As for engalnd, they are a bit ageing, their bowling is a bit weak,
> and their spinners dont usually do well in india.

Adil Rashid and Moeen Ali played a LOT of IPL and hence should be among
wickets and Moeen in runs too with his experience on Indian pitches and
familiarity of Indian players.

>
> I def prefer the format this time, got rid of the groups, now everyone
> has to play each other, surely more equitable, if rather long drawn out;
> have to play 9 games before we get to the knockouts. How many of
> our bowlers will still be fit? Cant see wood playing 9 games in a month.
>
> mike

That shouldn't be a problem at all.

England can REST Wood and others in games against weak teams like
Netherlands, Afghanistan, Bangladesh etc and keep them FULLY FIT against
STRONGER teams.

On 10/3/2023 6:57 AM, mike wrote:
> My prediction for the final - India vs Oz
>
> I know i say this every tourny, so sooner or later it will happen.
>

I DON'T have confidence in Rohit Sharma's captaincy who DOESN'T
IMPROVISE depending on the game situation.

He follows pre-determined plan almost all the time, he expresses too
much EMOTION instead of FOCUSING on TACTICS every time a catch is
dropped or mis-fielded to four or bowlers give away too many runs in an
over.

> However, both have played a lot recently, and oz have picked up some
> injuries to agar and head.

England starts a favorite too with match turners and winners in Stokes,
Butler, Brook, Bairstow and in left armers like Topley who Indian
batsmen have weakness against.

>
> Dark Horse team: Pakistan. Often start badly but then come good.
>

Their odds are reduced because of injuries to their main strike bowlers
Naseem Shah and Haris Rauf who wont play for a couple of weeks.

> As for engalnd, they are a bit ageing, their bowling is a bit weak,
> and their spinners dont usually do well in india.

Adil Rashid and Moeen Ali played a LOT of IPL and hence should be among
wickets and Moeen in runs too with his experience on Indian pitches and
familiarity of Indian players.

>
> I def prefer the format this time, got rid of the groups, now everyone
> has to play each other, surely more equitable, if rather long drawn out;
> have to play 9 games before we get to the knockouts. How many of
> our bowlers will still be fit? Cant see wood playing 9 games in a month.
>
> mike

That shouldn't be a problem at all.

England can REST Wood and others in games against weak teams like
Netherlands, Afghanistan, Bangladesh etc and keep them FULLY FIT against
STRONGER teams.

On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 2:57:17 PM UTC+1, mike wrote:
> My prediction for the final - India vs Oz

> I def prefer the format this time, got rid of the groups, now everyone
> has to play each other, surely more equitable, if rather long drawn out;
> have to play 9 games before we get to the knockouts. How many of
> our bowlers will still be fit?

stokes is out for the nz match with a hip problem already to add to the
knee problem etc etc. still even if we lose tomorrow, theres another
8 games...

mike

In message <5aa46124-ea13-4414-9e67-38da87e792e2n@googlegroups.com>,
mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 2:57:170 >> My prediction for the final - India vs Oz
>
>> I def prefer the format this time, got rid of the groups, now everyone
>> has to play each other, surely more equitable, if rather long drawn out;
>> have to play 9 games before we get to the knockouts. How many of
>> our bowlers will still be fit?
>
>stokes is out for the nz match with a hip problem already to add to the
>knee problem etc etc. still even if we lose tomorrow, theres another
>8 games...
>
>mike

And NZ will be without Williamson and Southee, so we can't complain.
--
John Hall
"Acting is merely the art of keeping a large group of people
from coughing."
Sir Ralph Richardson (1902-83)

On 10/5/2023 12:22 AM, John Hall wrote:
> In message <5aa46124-ea13-4414-9e67-38da87e792e2n@googlegroups.com>,
> mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>> On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 2:57:170 >> My prediction for the final
>> - India vs Oz
>>
>>> I def prefer the format this time, got rid of the groups, now everyone
>>> has to play each other, surely more equitable, if rather long drawn out;
>>> have to play 9 games before we get to the knockouts. How many of
>>> our bowlers will still be fit?
>>
>> stokes is out for the nz match with a hip problem already to add to the
>> knee problem etc etc. still even if we lose tomorrow, theres another
>> 8 games...
>>
>> mike
>
> And NZ will be without Williamson and Southee, so we can't complain.

Also NZ has only three front line bowlers in Santner, Boult and Matt
Henry and all rounders in Neesham and Chapman and part timer Rachin
Ravindra.

So, England is still VERY STRONG compared to NZ, despite not having Stokes.

In message <uflush$sedr$1@dont-email.me>, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
<FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer@america.com> writes
>On 10/5/2023 12:22 AM, John Hall wrote:
>> In message <5aa46124-ea13-4414-9e67-38da87e792e2n@googlegroups.com>,
>>mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>>> On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 2:57:170 >> My prediction for the
>>>final - India vs Oz
>>>
>>>> I def prefer the format this time, got rid of the groups, now everyone
>>>> has to play each other, surely more equitable, if rather long drawn out;
>>>> have to play 9 games before we get to the knockouts. How many of
>>>> our bowlers will still be fit?
>>>
>>> stokes is out for the nz match with a hip problem already to add to the
>>> knee problem etc etc. still even if we lose tomorrow, theres another
>>> 8 games...
>>>
>>> mike
>> And NZ will be without Williamson and Southee, so we can't complain.
>

And Ferguson as well, as it turned out.
>
>
>Also NZ has only three front line bowlers in Santner, Boult and Matt
>Henry and all rounders in Neesham and Chapman and part timer Rachin
>Ravindra.
>
>So, England is still VERY STRONG compared to NZ, despite not having Stokes.

Well they should have been, but NZ played very well and England played
poorly, both with bat and ball. I think the conditions might have been
slightly better when NZ batted, but not by anywhere near enough to
account for the disparity. It was certainly very different from the
bilateral series only last month when, although NZ won the first
comfortably, England hammered them in the remaining three.

That will have done so much damage to England's NRR that one feels it's
almost the equivalent of two defeats. With eight more matches to play,
and four out of ten teams qualifying for the semis, there's still time
for them to pull things round, but they are going to need to play an
awful lot better.

For NZ, Ravindra is a tremendous prospect, and they will have to find a
way to keep him in the side even when Williamson returns.
--
John Hall
"Acting is merely the art of keeping a large group of people
from coughing."
Sir Ralph Richardson (1902-83)

On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 5:08:28 PM UTC+1, John Hall wrote:
> In message <uflush$sedr$1...@dont-email.me>, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
> <FBInCIAnNSATe...@america.com> writes
> >On 10/5/2023 12:22 AM, John Hall wrote:
> >> In message <5aa46124-ea13-4414...@googlegroups.com>,
> >>mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
> >>> On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 2:57:170 >> My prediction for the
> >>>final - India vs Oz
> >>>
> >>>> I def prefer the format this time, got rid of the groups, now everyone
> >>>> has to play each other, surely more equitable, if rather long drawn out;
> >>>> have to play 9 games before we get to the knockouts. How many of
> >>>> our bowlers will still be fit?
> >>>
> >>> stokes is out for the nz match with a hip problem already to add to the
> >>> knee problem etc etc. still even if we lose tomorrow, theres another
> >>> 8 games...
> >>>
> >>> mike
> >> And NZ will be without Williamson and Southee, so we can't complain.
> >
> And Ferguson as well, as it turned out.
> >
> >
> >Also NZ has only three front line bowlers in Santner, Boult and Matt
> >Henry and all rounders in Neesham and Chapman and part timer Rachin
> >Ravindra.
> >
> >So, England is still VERY STRONG compared to NZ, despite not having Stokes.
>
> Well they should have been, but NZ played very well and England played
> poorly, both with bat and ball. I think the conditions might have been
> slightly better when NZ batted, but not by anywhere near enough to
> account for the disparity. It was certainly very different from the
> bilateral series only last month when, although NZ won the first
> comfortably, England hammered them in the remaining three.
>

very different conditions in ahmedabad, NZ looked better prepared,
england kept losing wkts, should have made 320 at least when root
and butler were together, not that it would have stopped NZ on this form.

england bowling was all over the place to 2 lefthanders, but they
couldnt find a line or length to trouble them. wonder why topley didnt play?
injured?

> That will have done so much damage to England's NRR that one feels it's
> almost the equivalent of two defeats. With eight more matches to play,
> and four out of ten teams qualifying for the semis, there's still time
> for them to pull things round, but they are going to need to play an
> awful lot better.

have to hope england feel more at home back in the mountains for their
next match. perhaps theyll see the dalai lama if hes at home.

>
> For NZ, Ravindra is a tremendous prospect, and they will have to find a
> way to keep him in the side even when Williamson returns.

they were both fantastic innings, and ravindra who took some stick
while bowling came out and smashed wood all over the place.

mike

On 10/5/2023 1:47 PM, mike wrote:
> On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 5:08:28 PM UTC+1, John Hall wrote:
>> In message <uflush$sedr$1...@dont-email.me>, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
>> <FBInCIAnNSATe...@america.com> writes
>>> On 10/5/2023 12:22 AM, John Hall wrote:
>>>> In message <5aa46124-ea13-4414...@googlegroups.com>,
>>>> mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>>>>> On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 2:57:170 >> My prediction for the
>>>>> final - India vs Oz
>>>>>
>>>>>> I def prefer the format this time, got rid of the groups, now everyone
>>>>>> has to play each other, surely more equitable, if rather long drawn out;
>>>>>> have to play 9 games before we get to the knockouts. How many of
>>>>>> our bowlers will still be fit?
>>>>>
>>>>> stokes is out for the nz match with a hip problem already to add to the
>>>>> knee problem etc etc. still even if we lose tomorrow, theres another
>>>>> 8 games...
>>>>>
>>>>> mike
>>>> And NZ will be without Williamson and Southee, so we can't complain.
>>>
>> And Ferguson as well, as it turned out.
>>>
>>>
>>> Also NZ has only three front line bowlers in Santner, Boult and Matt
>>> Henry and all rounders in Neesham and Chapman and part timer Rachin
>>> Ravindra.
>>>
>>> So, England is still VERY STRONG compared to NZ, despite not having Stokes.
>>
>> Well they should have been, but NZ played very well and England played
>> poorly, both with bat and ball. I think the conditions might have been
>> slightly better when NZ batted, but not by anywhere near enough to
>> account for the disparity. It was certainly very different from the
>> bilateral series only last month when, although NZ won the first
>> comfortably, England hammered them in the remaining three.
>>
>
> very different conditions in ahmedabad, NZ looked better prepared,
> england kept losing wkts, should have made 320 at least when root
> and butler were together,

>>not that it would have stopped NZ on this form.

You NEVER know what PRESSURE would have done to NZ batters "IF" England
scored 325-330 which they were on course and should have scored on that
Ahmedabad pitch.

>
> england bowling was all over the place to 2 lefthanders, but they
> couldnt find a line or length to trouble them. wonder why topley didnt play?
> injured?
>
>> That will have done so much damage to England's NRR that one feels it's
>> almost the equivalent of two defeats. With eight more matches to play,
>> and four out of ten teams qualifying for the semis, there's still time
>> for them to pull things round, but they are going to need to play an
>> awful lot better.
>
> have to hope england feel more at home back in the mountains for their
> next match. perhaps theyll see the dalai lama if hes at home.
>
>>
>> For NZ, Ravindra is a tremendous prospect, and they will have to find a
>> way to keep him in the side even when Williamson returns.
>
> they were both fantastic innings, and ravindra who took some stick
> while bowling came out and smashed wood all over the place.
>
> mike

On 10/5/2023 8:58 AM, John Hall wrote:
> In message <uflush$sedr$1@dont-email.me>, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer
> <FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer@america.com> writes
>> On 10/5/2023 12:22 AM, John Hall wrote:
>>> In message <5aa46124-ea13-4414-9e67-38da87e792e2n@googlegroups.com>,
>>> mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>>>> On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 2:57:170 >> My prediction for the
>>>> final  - India vs Oz
>>>>
>>>>> I def prefer the format this time, got rid of the groups, now everyone
>>>>> has to play each other, surely more equitable, if rather long drawn
>>>>> out;
>>>>> have to play 9 games before we get to the knockouts. How many of
>>>>> our bowlers will still be fit?
>>>>
>>>> stokes is out for the nz match with a hip problem already to add to the
>>>> knee problem etc etc. still even if we lose tomorrow, theres another
>>>> 8 games...
>>>>
>>>> mike
>>>  And NZ will be without Williamson and Southee, so we can't complain.
>>
>
> And Ferguson as well, as it turned out.
>>
>>
>> Also NZ has only three front line bowlers in Santner, Boult and Matt
>> Henry and all rounders in Neesham and Chapman and part timer Rachin
>> Ravindra.
>>
>> So, England is still VERY STRONG compared to NZ, despite not having
>> Stokes.
>
> Well they should have been, but NZ played very well and England played
> poorly, both with bat and ball. I think the conditions might have been
> slightly better when NZ batted, but not by anywhere near enough to
> account for the disparity. It was certainly very different from the
> bilateral series only last month when, although NZ won the first
> comfortably, England hammered them in the remaining three.

I think New Zealand adjusted themselves to the Ahmedabad pitch quickly
especially Devon Conway who had a DREAM RUN in IPL just 4 months ago.

>
> That will have done so much damage to England's NRR that one feels it's
> almost the equivalent of two defeats. With eight more matches to play,
> and four out of ten teams qualifying for the semis, there's still time
> for them to pull things round, but they are going to need to play an
> awful lot better.

If England beats three strong teams like Aus, SA, India, Pak they will
still make it to the Semis.

>
> For NZ, Ravindra is a tremendous prospect, and they will have to find a
> way to keep him in the side even when Williamson returns.

Yep, Rachin could "potentially" become another great batsman like Martin
Crowe though it is "too early" to say.

His father named him Rachin by combining "Ra" from Rahul Dravid and
"Chin" from Sachin.

On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 2:57:17 PM UTC+1, mike wrote:
> My prediction for the final - India vs Oz
>
> I know i say this every tourny, so sooner or later it will happen.
>

hey i finally got something right. didnt look like happening when oz
lost their 1st 2 matches, but they came good eventually.

if india can be beaten, i think oz have the players to do it, but i
dont see it happening. for india everybody is in form, even iyer who
hardly made a run in the groups has made 2 100s now, bowlers
are all fit i assume. except in the england game for a while at least,
india havnt really been tested.

mike

In message <03cd5831-ed37-4356-9ef2-2e063586a6a7n@googlegroups.com>,
mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 2:57:170 >> My prediction for the final - India vs Oz
>>
>> I know i say this every tourny, so sooner or later it will happen.
>>
>
>hey i finally got something right. didnt look like happening when oz
>lost their 1st 2 matches, but they came good eventually.

Well done.
>
>if india can be beaten, i think oz have the players to do it, but i
>dont see it happening. for india everybody is in form, even iyer who
>hardly made a run in the groups has made 2 100s now, bowlers
>are all fit i assume. except in the england game for a while at least,
>india havnt really been tested.
>
>mike

It's hard to see India losing. As you say, everyone is in form, and
they've shrugged off the loss of Pandya. Australia are slightly
handicapped by Smith and Labuschagne being more suited by chugging along
at 4 or 5 runs an over rather than upping the rate to 6 and over. Very
good though Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood are, I think Bumrah, Shami and
Siraj are even better. And though Zampa has been excellent most of the
time, he's had a couple of poor games, including the SF.
--
John Hall
"Acting is merely the art of keeping a large group of people
from coughing."
Sir Ralph Richardson (1902-83)

On 11/17/2023 10:42 AM, John Hall wrote:
> In message <03cd5831-ed37-4356-9ef2-2e063586a6a7n@googlegroups.com>,
> mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>> On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 2:57:170 >> My prediction for the final
>> - India vs Oz
>>>
>>> I know i say this every tourny, so sooner or later it will happen.
>>>
>>
>> hey i finally got something right. didnt look like happening when oz
>> lost their 1st 2 matches, but they came good eventually.
>
> Well done.
>>
>> if india can be beaten, i think oz have the players to do it, but i
>> dont see it happening. for india everybody is in form, even iyer who
>> hardly made a run in the groups has made 2 100s now, bowlers
>> are all fit i assume. except in the england game for a while at least,
>> india havnt really been tested.
>>
>> mike
>
> It's hard to see India losing. As you say, everyone is in form, and
> they've shrugged off the loss of Pandya.

India is ONLY 60-40 at best in the Finals that too because of playing at
home.

Law of averages could catch up with India
India can have ONE bad day and LOSE
In a close game, a couple of dropped catches and marginal umpiring
decisions like umpires calls on LBWs could go against them
Team winning the toss could get slight advantage
Siraj has been expensive vs NZ

Pandya's injury was actually a blessing in disguise for India because it
OPENED a slot for Shami

Australia will play psychological games and PUT PRESSURE on India before
the game.

Australia is BETTER in tactics compared to India.

Australia has been there in the ODI WC finals many times and hence can
EASILY handle the pressure.

India DIDN'T WIN ICC trophy in the last 8+ years.

All these FACTORS prove that it WON'T be EASY for India to beat Australia.

If India can get Head, Warner and Marsh out quickly before they build a
solid foundation, India can/will win the game.

>Australia are slightly
> handicapped by Smith and Labuschagne being more suited by chugging along
> at 4 or 5 runs an over rather than upping the rate to 6 and over. Very
> good though Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood are, I think Bumrah, Shami and
> Siraj are even better. And though Zampa has been excellent most of the
> time, he's had a couple of poor games, including the SF.

Even Kuldeep Yadav was taken for 70 runs in 10 overs by NZ.

Australia will learn from NZ and Ned's Teja Nidamanuru's handling of
Kuldeep.

On Friday, November 17, 2023 at 6:47:47 PM UTC, John Hall wrote:
> In message <03cd5831-ed37-4356...@googlegroups.com>,
> mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
> >On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 2:57:170 >> My prediction for the final - India vs Oz
> >>
> It's hard to see India losing. As you say, everyone is in form, and
> they've shrugged off the loss of Pandya. Australia are slightly
> handicapped by Smith and Labuschagne being more suited by chugging along
> at 4 or 5 runs an over rather than upping the rate to 6 and over. Very
> good though Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood are, I think Bumrah, Shami and
> Siraj are even better. And though Zampa has been excellent most of the
> time, he's had a couple of poor games, including the SF.

zampa often looks very ordinary, but he often does the business, even in
india, but i cant see the indian batters in a spin against him, especially
as the ICC have ordered the sfs and final played on new wickets. i didnt realise
hes played 95 odis without a single test.

mike

On 11/18/2023 6:41 AM, mike wrote:
> On Friday, November 17, 2023 at 6:47:47 PM UTC, John Hall wrote:
>> In message <03cd5831-ed37-4356...@googlegroups.com>,
>> mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>>> On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 2:57:170 >> My prediction for the final - India vs Oz
>>>>
>> It's hard to see India losing. As you say, everyone is in form, and
>> they've shrugged off the loss of Pandya. Australia are slightly
>> handicapped by Smith and Labuschagne being more suited by chugging along
>> at 4 or 5 runs an over rather than upping the rate to 6 and over. Very
>> good though Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood are, I think Bumrah, Shami and
>> Siraj are even better. And though Zampa has been excellent most of the
>> time, he's had a couple of poor games, including the SF.
>
> zampa often looks very ordinary, but he often does the business, even in
> india, but i cant see the indian batters in a spin against him, especially
> as the ICC have ordered the sfs and final played on new wickets. i didnt realise
> hes played 95 odis without a single test.
>
> mike

Not much difference between Zampa's career average and average in India.

28.03 career
32.74 in India

22 innings - 34 wickets

In message <45643ecd-ce30-48e6-9dbe-2be69931085en@googlegroups.com>,
mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>On Friday, November 17, 2023 at 6:47:470 >> In message <03cd5831-ed37-4356...@googlegroups.com>,
>> mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>> >On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 2:57:170 >> My prediction for the
>> >final - India vs Oz
>> >>
>> It's hard to see India losing. As you say, everyone is in form, and
>> they've shrugged off the loss of Pandya. Australia are slightly
>> handicapped by Smith and Labuschagne being more suited by chugging along
>> at 4 or 5 runs an over rather than upping the rate to 6 and over. Very
>> good though Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood are, I think Bumrah, Shami and
>> Siraj are even better. And though Zampa has been excellent most of the
>> time, he's had a couple of poor games, including the SF.
>
>zampa often looks very ordinary, but he often does the business, even in
>india, but i cant see the indian batters in a spin against him, especially
>as the ICC have ordered the sfs and final played on new wickets.

My understanding is that the Final is to be played on a pitch that was
used for one match over four weeks ago, should be pretty much as good as
new, as the other strips near the centre of the playing area which could
have been used had been used more recently (and one of them twice).
However the pitch chosen for the India-NZ SF had been used not long
before, which caused some controversy.

> i didnt realise
>hes played 95 odis without a single test.
>
>mike

That is a little surprising.
--
John Hall
"Acting is merely the art of keeping a large group of people
from coughing."
Sir Ralph Richardson (1902-83)

On 11/18/2023 10:33 AM, John Hall wrote:
> In message <45643ecd-ce30-48e6-9dbe-2be69931085en@googlegroups.com>,
> mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>> On Friday, November 17, 2023 at 6:47:470 >> In message
>> <03cd5831-ed37-4356...@googlegroups.com>,
>>> mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>>> >On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 2:57:170 >> My prediction for the
>>> >final - India vs Oz
>>> >>
>>> It's hard to see India losing. As you say, everyone is in form, and
>>> they've shrugged off the loss of Pandya. Australia are slightly
>>> handicapped by Smith and Labuschagne being more suited by chugging along
>>> at 4 or 5 runs an over rather than upping the rate to 6 and over. Very
>>> good though Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood are, I think Bumrah, Shami and
>>> Siraj are even better. And though Zampa has been excellent most of the
>>> time, he's had a couple of poor games, including the SF.
>>
>> zampa often looks very ordinary, but he often does the business, even in
>> india, but i cant see the indian batters in a spin against him,
>> especially
>> as the ICC have ordered the sfs and final played on new wickets.
>
> My understanding is that the Final is to be played on a pitch that was
> used for one match over four weeks ago, should be pretty much as good as
> new, as the other strips near the centre of the playing area which could
> have been used had been used more recently (and one of them twice).
> However the pitch chosen for the India-NZ SF had been used not long
> before, which caused some controversy.
>

ICC independent pitch consultant Atkinson leaked an email to create a
controversy where none existed.

People complained that Indian team asked the curator to make the pitch
spinner friendly but in the end it was Shami who took 7 wickets and WON
the match for India.

As long as the PITCH plays fine, ICC has NO qualms, it appears.

Australian player/columnist Geoff Lawson:

I’m not sure how the late change of pitch in Mumbai affected the other
semi-final, but it looked like a reasonably even surface and India won
the toss and batted first, perhaps giving New Zealand the advantage of
batting in a dew-settling night. In such conditions, the ball will skid
rather than prop.

The Wankhede pitches have been known to favour spin from the time of the
Mughals, so the Black Caps would have come mentally prepared for spin.
It was no secret that India would play at least two if not three
twirlers in all of their matches. It is, after all, their home briar
patch. Just to add to the confusion, paceman Mohammed Shami bowled
magnificently and took seven wickets. So much for the spinning pitch theory.

“There’s been a lot of talk about the pitch, but it’s played fine,”
former England captain Nasser Hussain said in commentary. “There’s
nothing wrong with it.”

The ICC subsequently confirmed to this masthead that the pitch had been
changed by the local curator and the Indian team, adding it was not
unusual for that to happen in such a long tournament.

“This change was made on the recommendation of the venue curator in
conjunction with our host. The ICC independent pitch consultant was
apprised of the change and has no reason to believe the pitch won’t play
well,” an ICC spokesperson said.

Brilliant India prove they don’t need doctored pitches to dominate
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/brilliant-india-prove-they-don-t-need-doctored-pitches-to-dominate-20231116-p5ekbz.html

>>  i didnt realise
>> hes played 95 odis without a single test.
>>
>> mike
>
> That is a little surprising.

Adam Zampa is considered more of a ODI and T20 specialist.

Australia had Spinners Nathan Lyon, Todd Murphy, Swepson and Ashton Agar
for Tests.

On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 2:57:17 PM UTC+1, mike wrote:
>
> I def prefer the format this time, got rid of the groups, now everyone
> has to play each other, surely more equitable, if rather long drawn out;
> have to play 9 games before we get to the knockouts.

i have since read that the next WC odi, to be held in RSA & Namibia,
will be 2 groups of 7, then a super6, and then knockout SFs. I hate
the super6, which i think theyve done b4. I think that it means that
only points gained in matches between the 6 are carried forward,
so its enshrines an inequality from the start in the 2nd stage.

mike

On 27/11/2023 16:15, mike wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 2:57:17 PM UTC+1, mike wrote:
>>
>> I def prefer the format this time, got rid of the groups, now everyone
>> has to play each other, surely more equitable, if rather long drawn out;
>> have to play 9 games before we get to the knockouts.
>
> i have since read that the next WC odi, to be held in RSA & Namibia,
> will be 2 groups of 7, then a super6, and then knockout SFs.

That's the same format as 2003, and potentially will include the most
matches of any World Cup (54), as 2 matches in 2003 weren't played.

I'd rather they had QFs, which would make it the same as 2011 and 2015 -
5 matches fewer.

> I hate
> the super6, which i think theyve done b4.

Yes, 1999 and 2003

> I think that it means that
> only points gained in matches between the 6 are carried forward,
> so its enshrines an inequality from the start in the 2nd stage.

That's instead of playing the same teams again in the Super Six, which
would add another 6 matches, and could result in 1 or 2 pairs of teams
playing each other 3 times.

--
David North

On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 5:44:04 AM UTC+11, John Hall wrote:
> In message <45643ecd-ce30-48e6...@googlegroups.com>,
> mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
> >On Friday, November 17, 2023 at 6:47:470 >> In message <03cd5831-ed37-4356...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
> >> >On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 2:57:170 >> My prediction for the
> >> >final - India vs Oz
> >> >>
> >> It's hard to see India losing. As you say, everyone is in form, and
> >> they've shrugged off the loss of Pandya. Australia are slightly
> >> handicapped by Smith and Labuschagne being more suited by chugging along
> >> at 4 or 5 runs an over rather than upping the rate to 6 and over. Very
> >> good though Cummins, Starc and Hazlewood are, I think Bumrah, Shami and
> >> Siraj are even better. And though Zampa has been excellent most of the
> >> time, he's had a couple of poor games, including the SF.
> >
> >zampa often looks very ordinary, but he often does the business, even in
> >india, but i cant see the indian batters in a spin against him, especially
> >as the ICC have ordered the sfs and final played on new wickets.
> My understanding is that the Final is to be played on a pitch that was
> used for one match over four weeks ago, should be pretty much as good as
> new, as the other strips near the centre of the playing area which could
> have been used had been used more recently (and one of them twice).
> However the pitch chosen for the India-NZ SF had been used not long
> before, which caused some controversy.
> > i didnt realise
> >hes played 95 odis without a single test.
> >
> That is a little surprising.

Zampa hardly plays first class cricket, I think he's played 2 Shield matches in the last 3 years
In 40 first class matches he's taken 111 wickets @ 46.98

I think he's the classic modern one day spinner where he depends a lot on the opposition attacking him and his variations cause problems there but in first class cricket where people can attack less he's a bit loose and gives away runs with loose balls while the batsmen can take less risks on the good ones

On Tuesday, November 28, 2023 at 6:37:17 AM UTC, David North wrote:
> On 27/11/2023 16:15, mike wrote:
> > On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 2:57:17 PM UTC+1, mike wrote:
> >>
> >> I def prefer the format this time, got rid of the groups, now everyone
> >> has to play each other, surely more equitable, if rather long drawn out;
> >> have to play 9 games before we get to the knockouts.
> >
> > i have since read that the next WC odi, to be held in RSA & Namibia,
> > will be 2 groups of 7, then a super6, and then knockout SFs.
> That's the same format as 2003, and potentially will include the most
> matches of any World Cup (54), as 2 matches in 2003 weren't played.
>
> I'd rather they had QFs, which would make it the same as 2011 and 2015 -
> 5 matches fewer.

I agree but i preferred this format even though there wernt many close matches, [but
i dont think that was caused by the long group stage] cos everybody played each other
and the best 4 teams played the sfs.

> > I hate
> > the super6, which i think theyve done b4.
> Yes, 1999 and 2003
> > I think that it means that
> > only points gained in matches between the 6 are carried forward,
> > so its enshrines an inequality from the start in the 2nd stage.
> That's instead of playing the same teams again in the Super Six, which
> would add another 6 matches, and could result in 1 or 2 pairs of teams
> playing each other 3 times.

i just think the super6 is a waste of time.

mike

On Wednesday, 29 November 2023 at 15:55:01 UTC, mike wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 28, 2023 at 6:37:17 AM UTC, David North wrote:
> > On 27/11/2023 16:15, mike wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 2:57:17 PM UTC+1, mike wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I def prefer the format this time, got rid of the groups, now everyone
> > >> has to play each other, surely more equitable, if rather long drawn out;
> > >> have to play 9 games before we get to the knockouts.
> > >
> > > i have since read that the next WC odi, to be held in RSA & Namibia,
> > > will be 2 groups of 7, then a super6, and then knockout SFs.
> > That's the same format as 2003, and potentially will include the most
> > matches of any World Cup (54), as 2 matches in 2003 weren't played.
> >
> > I'd rather they had QFs, which would make it the same as 2011 and 2015 -
> > 5 matches fewer.
> I agree but i preferred this format even though there wernt many close matches, [but
> i dont think that was caused by the long group stage] cos everybody played each other

.... apart from the teams that didn't play anybody. That was the main problem I had with this year's format - not enough teams were involved, ensuring that at least two Test-playing teams would not qualify (and in this case, three didn't).

There were fewer teams in the World Cup this year than there were 27 years ago, when only 9 sides had Test status, compared to 12 now, so I'm pleased that ICC have increased it to 14 teams in 2027. Obviously that means that they have to divide them into 2 groups, as a full round-robin would require more than twice as many matches as with 10 teams (91 vs 45).

If they had had 14 teams this time, with the top 10 (either in the World Cup Super League on in the rankings) qualifying automatically as for 2027, then Sri Lanka and West Indies would have qualified automatically, and Zimbabwe would probably have got through the qualifiers, most likely along with Netherlands, Scotland and Oman. Given Ireland's poor performance in the qualifiers, it is likely that they still wouldn't have qualified.

On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 1:59:23 PM UTC, David North wrote:
> On Wednesday, 29 November 2023 at 15:55:01 UTC, mike wrote:
> > On Tuesday, November 28, 2023 at 6:37:17 AM UTC, David North wrote:
> > > On 27/11/2023 16:15, mike wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 2:57:17 PM UTC+1, mike wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> I def prefer the format this time, got rid of the groups, now everyone
> > > >> has to play each other, surely more equitable, if rather long drawn out;
> > > >> have to play 9 games before we get to the knockouts.
> > > >
> > > > i have since read that the next WC odi, to be held in RSA & Namibia,
> > > > will be 2 groups of 7, then a super6, and then knockout SFs.
> > > That's the same format as 2003, and potentially will include the most
> > > matches of any World Cup (54), as 2 matches in 2003 weren't played.
> > >
> > > I'd rather they had QFs, which would make it the same as 2011 and 2015 -
> > > 5 matches fewer.
> > I agree but i preferred this format even though there wernt many close matches, [but
> > i dont think that was caused by the long group stage] cos everybody played each other
> ... apart from the teams that didn't play anybody. That was the main problem I had with this year's format - not enough teams were involved, ensuring that at least two Test-playing teams would not qualify (and in this case, three didn't).
>
> There were fewer teams in the World Cup this year than there were 27 years ago, when only 9 sides had Test status, compared to 12 now, so I'm pleased that ICC have increased it to 14 teams in 2027. Obviously that means that they have to divide them into 2 groups, as a full round-robin would require more than twice as many matches as with 10 teams (91 vs 45).
>
> If they had had 14 teams this time, with the top 10 (either in the World Cup Super League on in the rankings) qualifying automatically as for 2027, then Sri Lanka and West Indies would have qualified automatically, and Zimbabwe would probably have got through the qualifiers, most likely along with Netherlands, Scotland and Oman. Given Ireland's poor performance in the qualifiers, it is likely that they still wouldn't have qualified.

but u could ask what would have windies zimbab scotland or ireland brought to the WC just finished except a lot
of easy games for the other teams [with the exception of england maybe]. they didnt make it cos they wernt good
enough.

however windies have a chance to prove they should be there on sunday when the odi series starts.
they are usually tough to beat in caribbean, or at least when england play them, although
the last time we were there i dont think we played any odis. but we were crap in the tests and t20.
since the team this time is a bit developmental, i expect them to lose also..

mike

On 30/11/2023 16:53, mike wrote:
> On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 1:59:23 PM UTC, David North wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 29 November 2023 at 15:55:01 UTC, mike wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, November 28, 2023 at 6:37:17 AM UTC, David North wrote:
>>>> On 27/11/2023 16:15, mike wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 2:57:17 PM UTC+1, mike wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I def prefer the format this time, got rid of the groups, now everyone
>>>>>> has to play each other, surely more equitable, if rather long drawn out;
>>>>>> have to play 9 games before we get to the knockouts.
>>>>>
>>>>> i have since read that the next WC odi, to be held in RSA & Namibia,
>>>>> will be 2 groups of 7, then a super6, and then knockout SFs.
>>>> That's the same format as 2003, and potentially will include the most
>>>> matches of any World Cup (54), as 2 matches in 2003 weren't played.
>>>>
>>>> I'd rather they had QFs, which would make it the same as 2011 and 2015 -
>>>> 5 matches fewer.
>>> I agree but i preferred this format even though there wernt many close matches, [but
>>> i dont think that was caused by the long group stage] cos everybody played each other
>> ... apart from the teams that didn't play anybody. That was the main problem I had with this year's format - not enough teams were involved, ensuring that at least two Test-playing teams would not qualify (and in this case, three didn't).
>>
>> There were fewer teams in the World Cup this year than there were 27 years ago, when only 9 sides had Test status, compared to 12 now, so I'm pleased that ICC have increased it to 14 teams in 2027. Obviously that means that they have to divide them into 2 groups, as a full round-robin would require more than twice as many matches as with 10 teams (91 vs 45).
>>
>> If they had had 14 teams this time, with the top 10 (either in the World Cup Super League on in the rankings) qualifying automatically as for 2027, then Sri Lanka and West Indies would have qualified automatically, and Zimbabwe would probably have got through the qualifiers, most likely along with Netherlands, Scotland and Oman. Given Ireland's poor performance in the qualifiers, it is likely that they still wouldn't have qualified.
>
> but u could ask what would have windies zimbab scotland or ireland brought to the WC just finished except a lot
> of easy games for the other teams [with the exception of england maybe].

The answer is that we'll never know because they weren't there. Few
expected NL to do as well as they did, and WI, Ire and Zim all did
considerably better than them in the WCSL (Scotland weren't involved).
WI were one place behind SA, who came close to reaching the WC Final.
Meanwhile, England and Bangladesh were 2nd and 3rd in the WCSL, but were
rubbish at the WC.

> they didnt make it cos they wernt good
> enough.

They weren't good enough to finish in the top 2 in the qualifying
tournament in Zimbabwe (although Scotland would have done so if the
WI-NL tied match had finished one run differently in WI's favour). I'm
not convinced that that tournament is a particularly good guide to how
they would have fared in the World Cup in India.

> however windies have a chance to prove they should be there on sunday when the odi series starts.

After England's WC performance, it's arguable that beating them wouldn't
prove much.

--
David North