Ben Stokes (capt), Rehan Ahmed, James Anderson, Gus Atkinson, Jonny Bairstow, Shoaib Bashir, Harry Brook, Zak Crawley, Ben Duckett, Ben Foakes, Tom Hartley, Jack Leach, Ollie Pope, Ollie Robinson, Joe Root, Mark Wood.

Stokes Pope Leach and Yobbo all return from injury/rest etc. Anderson
soldiers on. Main surprises are Bashir and Hartley. I wouldnt have thought
of them yet, more like for the lions first, but perhaps they think after rehan, they might get lucky again with their inspired choices. But as Stokes isnt gonna bowl as we suspected, they will have some difficulty fitting another spinner. I am a bit surprised that Dawson wasnt considered. 33 is no age
for a spinner.

But with 5 tests and no other games it seems, they will have very little
chance to prepare. Looking at the bowlers, we could be seeing some
monumental scores by india.

mike

In message <78b88885-5f89-4526-baff-c54923c5bf0dn@googlegroups.com>,
mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>Ben Stokes (capt), Rehan Ahmed, James Anderson, Gus Atkinson, Jonny
>Bairstow, Shoaib Bashir, Harry Brook, Zak Crawley, Ben Duckett, Ben
>Foakes, Tom Hartley, Jack Leach, Ollie Pope, Ollie Robinson, Joe Root,
>Mark Wood.
>
>Stokes Pope Leach and Yobbo all return from injury/rest etc. Anderson
>soldiers on. Main surprises are Bashir and Hartley. I wouldnt have thought
>of them yet, more like for the lions first, but perhaps they think
>after rehan, they might get lucky again with their inspired choices.
>But as Stokes isnt gonna bowl as we suspected, they will have some
>difficulty fitting another spinner. I am a bit surprised that Dawson
>wasnt considered. 33 is no age
>for a spinner.

I was surprised too. Hartley was a little unexpected and Bashir a big
shock.
>
>But with 5 tests and no other games it seems, they will have very little
>chance to prepare. Looking at the bowlers, we could be seeing some
>monumental scores by india.
>
>mike

Unless they prepare pitches that turn square. I think that would be a
mistake, though. The superior class of their spinners is most likely to
be a factor on pitches that only give a moderate amount of turn. If they
turn square, then even England's spinners could be deadly.
--
John Hall
"Acting is merely the art of keeping a large group of people
from coughing."
Sir Ralph Richardson (1902-83)

On 11/12/2023 20:23, John Hall wrote:
> In message <78b88885-5f89-4526-baff-c54923c5bf0dn@googlegroups.com>,
> mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>> Ben Stokes (capt), Rehan Ahmed, James Anderson, Gus Atkinson, Jonny
>> Bairstow, Shoaib Bashir, Harry Brook, Zak Crawley, Ben Duckett, Ben
>> Foakes, Tom Hartley, Jack Leach, Ollie Pope, Ollie Robinson, Joe Root,
>> Mark Wood.
>>
>> Stokes Pope Leach and Yobbo all return from injury/rest etc. Anderson
>> soldiers on. Main surprises are Bashir and Hartley. I wouldnt have
>> thought
>> of them yet, more like for the lions first, but perhaps they think
>> after rehan, they might get lucky again with their inspired choices.
>> But as Stokes isnt gonna bowl as we suspected, they will have some
>> difficulty fitting another spinner. I am a bit surprised that Dawson
>> wasnt considered. 33 is no age
>> for a spinner.
>
> I was surprised too. Hartley was a little unexpected and Bashir a big
> shock.

Possibly daft question - is he any relation to Alex Hartley?

James

On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 21:26:07 +0000, James Heaton
<heatonandmoore@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 11/12/2023 20:23, John Hall wrote:
>> In message <78b88885-5f89-4526-baff-c54923c5bf0dn@googlegroups.com>,
>> mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>>> Ben Stokes (capt), Rehan Ahmed, James Anderson, Gus Atkinson, Jonny
>>> Bairstow, Shoaib Bashir, Harry Brook, Zak Crawley, Ben Duckett, Ben
>>> Foakes, Tom Hartley, Jack Leach, Ollie Pope, Ollie Robinson, Joe Root,
>>> Mark Wood.
>>>
>>> Stokes Pope Leach and Yobbo all return from injury/rest etc. Anderson
>>> soldiers on. Main surprises are Bashir and Hartley. I wouldnt have
>>> thought
>>> of them yet, more like for the lions first, but perhaps they think
>>> after rehan, they might get lucky again with their inspired choices.
>>> But as Stokes isnt gonna bowl as we suspected, they will have some
>>> difficulty fitting another spinner. I am a bit surprised that Dawson
>>> wasnt considered. 33 is no age
>>> for a spinner.
>>
>> I was surprised too. Hartley was a little unexpected and Bashir a big
>> shock.
>
>Possibly daft question - is he any relation to Alex Hartley?
>
>James
>
No relation according to wikipedia.

max.it

On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 8:33:32 PM UTC, John Hall wrote:
> In message <78b88885-5f89-4526...@googlegroups.com>,
> mike <dmik...@yahoo.co.uk> writes
> >Ben Stokes (capt), Rehan Ahmed, James Anderson, Gus Atkinson, Jonny
> >Bairstow, Shoaib Bashir, Harry Brook, Zak Crawley, Ben Duckett, Ben
> >Foakes, Tom Hartley, Jack Leach, Ollie Pope, Ollie Robinson, Joe Root,
> >Mark Wood.
> >
> >Stokes Pope Leach and Yobbo all return from injury/rest etc. Anderson
> >soldiers on. Main surprises are Bashir and Hartley. I wouldnt have thought
> >of them yet, more like for the lions first, but perhaps they think
> >after rehan, they might get lucky again with their inspired choices.
> >But as Stokes isnt gonna bowl as we suspected, they will have some
> >difficulty fitting another spinner. I am a bit surprised that Dawson
> >wasnt considered. 33 is no age
> >for a spinner.
> I was surprised too. Hartley was a little unexpected and Bashir a big
> shock.

i think both hav been with the lions in UAE, and as they dont seem to have played any matches there,
they must have impressed someone in the nets. i saw hartley play in the 100 2 years ago and he was
very impressive for a youngster. hes another whos played far more t20 than anything else and he doesnt seem to turn the
ball much which might be drawback. apparently bashir took 6 wkts in a match against hants which
must hav impressed someone, since hes only taken 4 wkts in his other 5 matches. i notice that virdi
was on loan i think to somerset a while back, then returned to surrey [given a new 2 yr contract i believe]
and bashir was released by surrey to play for somerset last season. some kind of swap maybe? Imay have
got this wrong but Bashir is said to be 6'4 which must make him 1 of the tallest spinners for england [if he plays].
I cant think of any taller offhand except Greig who was a pretty decent off spinner on occasion.

Regarding dawsons non selection, he apparently [i havnt read it myself] has made comments similar
to david willey during the summer that he didnt want to just be a drinks carrier. plus he usually plays in
t20s in pakistan and RSA, so i suspect that keys rather pointed remarks about his focus being somewhere
else and not wanting to be just a replacement bowler for leach refer to that. a lot of people are even more
outraged about woakes omission in preference for robinson. woakes didnt look great in the early games in
the WC, plus his av abroad is like 50 with the ball, but in omitting both woakes and dawson, they
have left out the only 2 bowlers who could competently bat at 7. i suspect that it will be 4 bowlers and Root
and even that will leave us with a long tail. It does seem rather odd to go to india with root as specialist off
spinner when Ashwin has taken over 300 wkts there over last 15 yrs. Ahmed clearly has potential in white ball
formats, but not many leggies have done that well in tests recently in india i think. I can only think of
chandresekar and hirwani and that was ages ago. I think the last england spinner who debuted in India was
Dawson.

apart from the spinners, will stokes really be match fit so soon after surgery? Mmmm
and every time jimmy goes on tour, i wonder if this will be the 1 which sees him
off for ever.

> >
> >But with 5 tests and no other games it seems, they will have very little
> >chance to prepare. Looking at the bowlers, we could be seeing some
> >monumental scores by india.
> >
> >mike
> Unless they prepare pitches that turn square. I think that would be a
> mistake, though. The superior class of their spinners is most likely to
> be a factor on pitches that only give a moderate amount of turn. If they
> turn square, then even England's spinners could be deadly.

yes although i think in the match where root took 5for, they still lost by a mile.

mike