Dramatic news, on top of the loss of Viral and Shami, now Jadega
and Rahul both out to injuries. I wont speculate on what changes
England might make, just in case they do something really freaky,
but i would expect another seamer like Anderson to come in for wood,
but who knows, they probably think they are now all supermen and
can fly.

mike

In message <172ab44b7af35afa731e6b492d7187b1@www.novabbs.com>, miked
<dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>Dramatic news, on top of the loss of Viral and Shami, now Jadega
>and Rahul both out to injuries. I wont speculate on what changes
>England might make, just in case they do something really freaky,
>but i would expect another seamer like Anderson to come in for wood,
>but who knows, they probably think they are now all supermen and
>can fly.
>
>mike

It must be doubtful whether Leach will be fit. If not, Anderson might
come in for him, or otherwise then he could come in for Rehan. Or if the
pitch looks like it will turn as much or more than Hyderabad, then
Shoaib Bashir could come into contention.
--
John Hall
"Acting is merely the art of keeping a large group of people
from coughing."
Sir Ralph Richardson (1902-83)

On Tuesday, January 30, 2024 at 2:51:20 AM UTC+10, John Hall wrote:
> Or if the
> pitch looks like it will turn as much or more than Hyderabad, then
> Shoaib Bashir could come into contention.

Normally I'd say "India will double down with a more spin friendly pitch".... but... that decision is made more complex by England's proficiency with the sweep/rev-sweep. Sweeps seem to have negated India's spinners. Can they devise an anti-sweep tactic in time for the second Test? I'm not so sure they can.

On Tuesday, January 30, 2024 at 12:00:25 PM UTC+11, jack fredricks wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 30, 2024 at 2:51:20 AM UTC+10, John Hall wrote:
> > Or if the
> > pitch looks like it will turn as much or more than Hyderabad, then
> > Shoaib Bashir could come into contention.
> Normally I'd say "India will double down with a more spin friendly pitch".... but... that decision is made more complex by England's proficiency with the sweep/rev-sweep. Sweeps seem to have negated India's spinners. Can they devise an anti-sweep tactic in time for the second Test? I'm not so sure they can.

There was one batsman who made a huge impact with sweeps and reverse sweeps, doesn't mean he'll do it again or that the rest of the team will

On Tuesday, January 30, 2024 at 2:22:54 PM UTC+10, Hamish Laws wrote:
> There was one batsman who made a huge impact with sweeps and reverse sweeps, doesn't mean he'll do it again or that the rest of the team will

To be fair, I really was just paraphrasing Rahul Dravid, and what England's sweeping means for India going forward.

Root's better at sweeping than Pope.

In message <81fc5c46-a984-4066-8aba-a0823f9e5f1dn@googlegroups.com>,
jack fredricks <jzfredricks@gmail.com> writes
>On Tuesday, January 30, 2024 at 2:51:200 >> Or if the
>> pitch looks like it will turn as much or more than Hyderabad, then
>> Shoaib Bashir could come into contention.
>
>Normally I'd say "India will double down with a more spin friendly
>pitch"... but... that decision is made more complex by England's
>proficiency with the sweep/rev-sweep. Sweeps seem to have negated
>India's spinners. Can they devise an anti-sweep tactic in time for the
>second Test? I'm not so sure they can.

Agree with that. Another argument is that the more spin-friendly a pitch
is the more it levels the playing field between India's spinners and
England's, who in spite of Hartley's heroics are nowhere near the same
class. (And that remains true even in the absence through injury of
Jadeja.)
--
John Hall
"Acting is merely the art of keeping a large group of people
from coughing."
Sir Ralph Richardson (1902-83)

In message <e9a2eb14-e42a-4ab4-9200-708abc05d204n@googlegroups.com>,
Hamish Laws <hamish.laws@gmail.com> writes
>On Tuesday, January 30, 2024 at 12:00:250 >> On Tuesday, January 30, 2024 at 2:51:200 >> > Or if the
>> > pitch looks like it will turn as much or more than Hyderabad, then
>> > Shoaib Bashir could come into contention.
>> Normally I'd say "India will double down with a more spin friendly
>>pitch"... but... that decision is made more complex by England's
>>proficiency with the sweep/rev-sweep. Sweeps seem to have negated
>>India's spinners. Can they devise an anti-sweep tactic in time for the
>>second Test? I'm not so sure they can.
>
>There was one batsman who made a huge impact with sweeps and reverse
>sweeps, doesn't mean he'll do it again or that the rest of the team will

Duckett and Root are also skilled exponents of those shots, so it's sure
to remain a big component of England's approach going forward. No, it
won't always come off, but on spinning pitches if the ball isn't going
to hit the stumps they see it as a lower-risk option than a straight-bat
shot. It also helps to manoeuvre the field, opening up gaps elsewhere,
and puts a lot of pressure on the bowler.
--
John Hall
"Acting is merely the art of keeping a large group of people
from coughing."
Sir Ralph Richardson (1902-83)

John Hall wrote:

> In message <81fc5c46-a984-4066-8aba-a0823f9e5f1dn@googlegroups.com>,
> jack fredricks <jzfredricks@gmail.com> writes
>>On Tuesday, January 30, 2024 at 2:51:200 >> Or if the
>>> pitch looks like it will turn as much or more than Hyderabad, then
>>> Shoaib Bashir could come into contention.
>>
>>Normally I'd say "India will double down with a more spin friendly
>>pitch"... but... that decision is made more complex by England's
>>proficiency with the sweep/rev-sweep. Sweeps seem to have negated
>>India's spinners. Can they devise an anti-sweep tactic in time for the
>>second Test? I'm not so sure they can.

> Agree with that. Another argument is that the more spin-friendly a pitch
> is the more it levels the playing field between India's spinners and
> England's, who in spite of Hartley's heroics are nowhere near the same
> class. (And that remains true even in the absence through injury of
> Jadeja.)

if i were india i would make it a true batting wkt which only deteriorate
and favour spin later on, cos i think the indian bowlers esp Bumrah
will always be more dangerous than englands on a flat wkt, plus i would
back indian batters to outbat england in the first innings, which they did
by some margin in the last match. I think that was the rule in the 2016-17
series, england made 300+ and then india like 500+, then england collapse etc.

mike

On Tuesday, January 30, 2024 at 2:50:20 PM UTC, miked wrote:
> John Hall wrote:
>
> > In message <81fc5c46-a984-4066...@googlegroups.com>,
> > jack fredricks <jzfre...@gmail.com> writes
> >>On Tuesday, January 30, 2024 at 2:51:200 >> Or if the
> >>> pitch looks like it will turn as much or more than Hyderabad, then
> >>> Shoaib Bashir could come into contention.
> >>
> >>Normally I'd say "India will double down with a more spin friendly
> >>pitch"... but... that decision is made more complex by England's
> >>proficiency with the sweep/rev-sweep. Sweeps seem to have negated
> >>India's spinners. Can they devise an anti-sweep tactic in time for the
> >>second Test? I'm not so sure they can.
>
> > Agree with that. Another argument is that the more spin-friendly a pitch
> > is the more it levels the playing field between India's spinners and
> > England's, who in spite of Hartley's heroics are nowhere near the same
> > class. (And that remains true even in the absence through injury of
> > Jadeja.)
> if i were india i would make it a true batting wkt which only deteriorate
> and favour spin later on, cos i think the indian bowlers esp Bumrah
> will always be more dangerous than englands on a flat wkt, plus i would
> back indian batters to outbat england in the first innings, which they did
> by some margin in the last match. I think that was the rule in the 2016-17
> series, england made 300+ and then india like 500+, then england collapse etc.
>

England XI

Zak Crawley, Ben Duckett, Ollie Pope, Joe Root, Jonny Bairstow, Ben Stokes, Ben Foakes, Rehan Ahmed,
Tom Hartley, Shoaib Bashir, James Anderson.

So as expected Leach & Wood out, Bashir and Anderson in. I would prefer
another seamer like Robinson instead of Rehan, but i guess theyr convinced
it will spin wildly as the other, but with Vizag near the sea, i would think
it would be much more moist with wind or mist than in hyderabad plus yobbo
would offer more control than Rehan who was very expensive in the last match
even if his batting was useful.

The other danger is england themselves, usually when they are cock a hoop after an
unexpected victory, they come unstuck pretty quickly. like on the last india tour,
3 overwhelming defeats followed.

mike

In message <2e505ba3-2e48-48db-883a-3c3810eed06fn@googlegroups.com>,
mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>England XI
>
>Zak Crawley, Ben Duckett, Ollie Pope, Joe Root, Jonny Bairstow, Ben
>Stokes, Ben Foakes, Rehan Ahmed, Tom Hartley, Shoaib Bashir, James
>Anderson.
>
>So as expected Leach & Wood out, Bashir and Anderson in. I would prefer
>another seamer like Robinson instead of Rehan, but i guess theyr
>convinced it will spin wildly as the other, but with Vizag near the
>sea, i would think it would be much more moist with wind or mist than
>in hyderabad plus yobbo would offer more control than Rehan who was
>very expensive in the last match even if his batting was useful.

The reports I've seen suggest that the pitch will start pretty good for
batting, but is dry so is likely to spin latter on. So it could be a
good toss to win. Still people thought that would be the case at
Hyderabad, and in the end I don't think the toss had much of an impact.

>
>The other danger is england themselves, usually when they are cock a
>hoop after an unexpected victory, they come unstuck pretty quickly.
>like on the last india tour, 3 overwhelming defeats followed.

I don't think that's happened so much under Stokes though, where they
have tended to have runs of good performances.
--
John Hall
"Acting is merely the art of keeping a large group of people
from coughing."
Sir Ralph Richardson (1902-83)

John Hall wrote:

> In message <2e505ba3-2e48-48db-883a-3c3810eed06fn@googlegroups.com>,
> mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>>England XI
>>
>>Zak Crawley, Ben Duckett, Ollie Pope, Joe Root, Jonny Bairstow, Ben
>>Stokes, Ben Foakes, Rehan Ahmed, Tom Hartley, Shoaib Bashir, James
>>Anderson.
>>
>>So as expected Leach & Wood out, Bashir and Anderson in. I would prefer
>>another seamer like Robinson instead of Rehan, but i guess theyr
>>convinced it will spin wildly as the other, but with Vizag near the
>>sea, i would think it would be much more moist with wind or mist than
>>in hyderabad plus yobbo would offer more control than Rehan who was
>>very expensive in the last match even if his batting was useful.

> The reports I've seen suggest that the pitch will start pretty good for
> batting, but is dry so is likely to spin latter on. So it could be a
> good toss to win. Still people thought that would be the case at
> Hyderabad, and in the end I don't think the toss had much of an impact.

i disagree in that if england had had to bat last i think they would
have lost and probably will lose when they have to on this tour.

If India bat first tomorrow, we will face them down with 3 spinners
with 3 tests between them, aged 19, 20 and 24, and the
most experienced is the 19yrold, plus a 41 yr old seamer and Joe
Root, who in tests and wkts is now our most experienced spin bowler
with 65 at 42. That is a really weird mix. I'd much prefer a 2nd
seamer in robinson. Then you still have 2 spinners and root so 3.

mike

On Friday, February 2, 2024 at 2:38:03 AM UTC+10, John Hall wrote:
> Still people thought that would be the case at
> Hyderabad, and in the end I don't think the toss had much of an impact.

Surely it played some part in Hartley's 7 wickets, and surely it changed a bit over the 5 days to be more spin friendly.

There's a 104% chance that whoever wins the toss in the next 4 Tests is going to bat first.

Can't wait to see how England win this one with India coasting along at 247/3.

Mind you - kudos to Shoaib on debut seemingly from the figures bowling more tidily than the other three. Seems like Stokes is now seeing Rehan as the occasional bowler rather than Root...!

Richard

On Friday, February 2, 2024 at 7:28:15 PM UTC+10, Richard Dixon wrote:
> Can't wait to see how England win this one with India coasting along at 247/3.
>
> Mind you - kudos to Shoaib on debut seemingly from the figures bowling more tidily than the other three. Seems like Stokes is now seeing Rehan as the occasional bowler rather than Root...!

Now 305/5. Clean up the tail for another 50, then score 410. That's just about the only way I can see England not losing.

On Friday 2 February 2024 at 10:36:22 UTC, jack fredricks wrote:

> Now 305/5. Clean up the tail for another 50

They'll be lucky not to concede 50 in the next 4 overs the rate they're going now !

On Fri, 2 Feb 2024 02:46:37 -0800 (PST), Richard Dixon
<richsdixon1975@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday 2 February 2024 at 10:36:22 UTC, jack fredricks wrote:
>
>> Now 305/5. Clean up the tail for another 50
>
>They'll be lucky not to concede 50 in the next 4 overs the rate they're going now !

Sir Alastair Cook
Former England captain on TNT Sports

"That was a good day for England. I think they have just edged it. I
know 330 runs is quite a lot of runs and the pitch will change as the
game goes on but it was a flat pitch and their bowling attack is very
inexperienced."

max.it

On Friday, February 2, 2024 at 9:33:23 PM UTC+10, max.it wrote:
> "That was a good day for England. I think they have just edged it. I
> know 330 runs is quite a lot of runs and the pitch will change as the
> game goes on but it was a flat pitch and their bowling attack is very
> inexperienced."

Hmmm, it's not dire. But I'd also not call it a "good" day.

I'm really not sure if I'd take 336/6 on day 1 if offered it. With Yashasvi Jaiswal still at the crease, I think it's slightly in India's favour, eg 55-45.

In message <plkpriltojkgcish7063imtsk18nmi6ug8@4ax.com>, max. it
<max@tea.time> writes
>On Fri, 2 Feb 2024 02:46:37 -0800 (PST), Richard Dixon
><richsdixon1975@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Friday 2 February 2024 at 10:36:22 UTC, jack fredricks wrote:
>>
>>> Now 305/5. Clean up the tail for another 50
>>
>>They'll be lucky not to concede 50 in the next 4 overs the rate
>>they're going now !
>
>Sir Alastair Cook
>Former England captain on TNT Sports
>
>"That was a good day for England. I think they have just edged it. I
>know 330 runs is quite a lot of runs and the pitch will change as the
>game goes on but it was a flat pitch and their bowling attack is very
>inexperienced."
>
>max.it

The pundits generally seem to think that England bowled pretty well,
with the exception of Root, who wasn't as good as in the first Test.
Anderson did what Anderson does, Rehan was better than at Hyderabad, and
Bashir's performance was highly encouraging. But I think to say that
England edged it is pushing it a bit, especially as towards the end of
the day Rehan, in particular, seemed to already be getting some turn. If
it hadn't been for a fine innings by Jaiswal, they might have been in a
great position, but as it is I think they have to hope they can get
India out for around 400 and then achieve close to parity on first
innings.
--
John Hall
"Acting is merely the art of keeping a large group of people
from coughing."
Sir Ralph Richardson (1902-83)

John Hall wrote:

> In message <plkpriltojkgcish7063imtsk18nmi6ug8@4ax.com>, max. it
> <max@tea.time> writes
>>On Fri, 2 Feb 2024 02:46:37 -0800 (PST), Richard Dixon
>><richsdixon1975@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Friday 2 February 2024 at 10:36:22 UTC, jack fredricks wrote:
>>>
>>>> Now 305/5. Clean up the tail for another 50
>>>
>>>They'll be lucky not to concede 50 in the next 4 overs the rate
>>>they're going now !
>>
>>Sir Alastair Cook
>>Former England captain on TNT Sports
>>
>>"That was a good day for England. I think they have just edged it. I
>>know 330 runs is quite a lot of runs and the pitch will change as the
>>game goes on but it was a flat pitch and their bowling attack is very
>>inexperienced."
>>
>>max.it

> The pundits generally seem to think that England bowled pretty well,
> with the exception of Root, who wasn't as good as in the first Test.
> Anderson did what Anderson does, Rehan was better than at Hyderabad, and
> Bashir's performance was highly encouraging. But I think to say that
> England edged it is pushing it a bit, especially as towards the end of
> the day Rehan, in particular, seemed to already be getting some turn. If
> it hadn't been for a fine innings by Jaiswal, they might have been in a
> great position, but as it is I think they have to hope they can get
> India out for around 400 and then achieve close to parity on first
> innings.

if england were 336-6 after day 1, i'd be happy, so to me indias day,
seeing they were missing Virat and rahul, but those late wkts gave england
something to feel good about even though they got lucky with most.

2 good catches by foakes, great innings by jaiswal, really needed a 2nd
seamer to partner jimmy, as root not upto it this time, hartley back to
bowling rank long hops, even if he got a wkt with 1, Ahmed bowled better
and bashir looked useful, but none of spinners could impose much control
on what looked a flattish wkt although they did manage to bowl 90 overs
at last. i doubt it will look quite the same when england bat on it,
especially when we have to bat last.

mike

In message <a57b27164afec3b7c64d119e39c80399@www.novabbs.com>, miked
<dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
<big snip>
>although they did manage to bowl 90 overs at last.

Yes, that was a pleasant surprise. Perhaps it was at least partly
because there were very few recourses to DRS.
--
John Hall
"Acting is merely the art of keeping a large group of people
from coughing."
Sir Ralph Richardson (1902-83)

On Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 5:58:07 AM UTC+10, John Hall wrote:
> Yes, that was a pleasant surprise. Perhaps it was at least partly
> because there were very few recourses to DRS.

Ah, the dreaded DRS boogeyman.

Why hint that DRS might have caused slow over rates (in other games) when DRS has an explicit time allowance in the ICC regulations?

12.9 Minimum Over Rates
12.9.3 In calculating the actual over rate for the match, allowances will be given as follows:
12.9.3.3 The time taken for all third umpire referrals and consultations and any umpire or player review

England bowled 74 overs of spin. You should be looking at that for reasons.

Perhaps, just perhaps, England's penalties for fluffing about and not bowling enough overs in earlier series has finally made England consider actually bowling enough overs per day. This WTC we've already been docked 19 points for slow over rates. We're now in 8th spot because of that, rather than 2nd spot.

India is winning Test 2.

Whilst I love the reverse-sweeps, it's criminal of Root to play one in his first 6 deliveries. The basics of batting remain unchanged. You need to build an innings.

On 2/3/2024 12:28 AM, jack fredricks wrote:
> India is winning Test 2.
>

Too early to say.

England can bowl out India for <250 in I2 and still WIN the test like
they chased 375+ in the fourth test in England.

> Whilst I love the reverse-sweeps, it's criminal of Root to play one in his first 6 deliveries. The basics of batting remain unchanged. You need to build an innings.

England was doing well at 120/2, So, it was okay for Root to reverse
sweep in the first 6 deliveries.

You have to remember, Root's record against India in India is EXCELLENT.
He has confidence in his reverse sweeping skills.

In the end, he DIDN'T get out to a spinner anyway.

On Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 9:00:34 PM UTC+10, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
> On 2/3/2024 12:28 AM, jack fredricks wrote:
> > India is winning Test 2.
> Too early to say.

We must be watching different games :)

On Saturday 3 February 2024 at 11:45:12 UTC, jack fredricks wrote:
> On Saturday, February 3, 2024 at 9:00:34 PM UTC+10, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
> > On 2/3/2024 12:28 AM, jack fredricks wrote:
> > > India is winning Test 2.
> > Too early to say.
> We must be watching different games :)

Excited to find out which way England find to win this won.

Richard