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aus+uk / uk.rec.cycling / Judges told killing a cyclist now an 'aggravating factor' for driving offences, could lead to longer sentences

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Judges told killing a cyclist now an 'aggravating factor' for driving offences, could lead to longer sentences

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Subject: Judges told killing a cyclist now an 'aggravating factor' for driving
offences, could lead to longer sentences
From: swldxer1958@gmail.com (swldx...@gmail.com)
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 by: swldx...@gmail.com - Wed, 21 Jun 2023 13:19 UTC

The Sentencing Council has published 12 new and revised sentencing guidelines (link is external) for offenders convicted of motoring offences in England and Wales, with the victim being a vulnerable road user — such as a cyclist or pedestrian — now an 'aggravating factor' for judges to consider, increasing the severity of the offence and potentially increasing the sentence.

The new guidelines will come into effect on 1 July 2023 and see the addition of a vulnerable road user as the victim 'aggravating factor' in cases of causing death by dangerous driving, causing death by careless driving, causing death by careless driving when under the influence of drink or drugs, causing death by driving whilst disqualified, and causing death by driving whilst unlicensed or uninsured.

It will also be an aggravating factor in non-fatal cases, such as dangerous driving, causing serious injury by dangerous driving, causing serious injury by driving whilst disqualified, causing serious injury by careless driving, and causing injury by wanton or furious driving.

Alongside cyclists and pedestrians, the victim being a horse rider or motorcyclist will also qualify as an aggravating factor via the victim being a vulnerable road user, and reflects the changes to the Highway Code at the start of last year where it was outlined: "Those who can cause the greatest harm have the greatest responsibility to reduce the danger or threat they pose to others."

The offender's status as a commercial driver or being behind the wheel of a heavy goods vehicle or large goods vehicle is also listed as an aggravating factor. The changes also reflect the new maximum sentence for causing death by dangerous driving which last year went up from 14 years in jail to life imprisonment.

It is worth also mentioning that one of the aforementioned offences, 'causing injury by wanton or furious driving', also now carries the 'aggravating factor' of the victim being a vulnerable road user, such as a pedestrian.

This is the offence cyclists involved in crashes in which a pedestrian is killed or injured can face prosecution under, suggesting that in such cases the pedestrian's status as a vulnerable road user would be viewed as an aggravating factor and possibly contribute to a more severe sentence. The maximum sentence for such offences is two years imprisonment.

"The whole framework for road traffic offences needs to be looked at and reconsidered"

While Cycling UK has welcomed the prospect of longer sentences "needed in some fatal dangerous driving cases", the charity and campaign group would also like to see longer driving bans for lesser offences and more consistency "around what's treated as 'careless driving' or the more serious 'dangerous driving' offence".

"Longer sentences, including life, are needed in some fatal dangerous driving cases," external affairs director Sarah McMonagle acknowledged. "However, in other cases of careless and dangerous driving, lengthy driving bans are also desperately needed — these will act as a deterrent and therefore help protect the public.

"There's also a real problem with how our road traffic laws operate, with little consistency around what's treated as 'careless driving' or the more serious 'dangerous driving' offence.

"The whole framework for road traffic offences needs to be looked at and reconsidered – a promise made by the government back in 2014, and since then, kicked into the long grass by successive ministers. Victims have been waiting for this review of our road traffic laws for nine years. It's high time the government delivered."

https://road.cc/content/news/killing-cyclist-added-aggravating-factor-list-302021

Re: Judges told killing a cyclist now an 'aggravating factor' for driving offences, could lead to longer sentences

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From: jnugent@mail.com (JNugent)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Judges told killing a cyclist now an 'aggravating factor' for
driving offences, could lead to longer sentences
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 by: JNugent - Wed, 21 Jun 2023 13:45 UTC

On 21/06/2023 02:19 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> The Sentencing Council has published 12 new and revised sentencing guidelines (link is external) for offenders convicted of motoring offences in England and Wales, with the victim being a vulnerable road user — such as a cyclist or pedestrian — now an 'aggravating factor' for judges to consider, increasing the severity of the offence and potentially increasing the sentence.
>
> The new guidelines will come into effect on 1 July 2023 and see the addition of a vulnerable road user as the victim 'aggravating factor' in cases of causing death by dangerous driving, causing death by careless driving, causing death by careless driving when under the influence of drink or drugs, causing death by driving whilst disqualified, and causing death by driving whilst unlicensed or uninsured.
>
> It will also be an aggravating factor in non-fatal cases, such as dangerous driving, causing serious injury by dangerous driving, causing serious injury by driving whilst disqualified, causing serious injury by careless driving, and causing injury by wanton or furious driving.
>
> Alongside cyclists and pedestrians, the victim being a horse rider or motorcyclist will also qualify as an aggravating factor via the victim being a vulnerable road user, and reflects the changes to the Highway Code at the start of last year where it was outlined: "Those who can cause the greatest harm have the greatest responsibility to reduce the danger or threat they pose to others."
>
> The offender's status as a commercial driver or being behind the wheel of a heavy goods vehicle or large goods vehicle is also listed as an aggravating factor. The changes also reflect the new maximum sentence for causing death by dangerous driving which last year went up from 14 years in jail to life imprisonment.
>
> It is worth also mentioning that one of the aforementioned offences, 'causing injury by wanton or furious driving', also now carries the 'aggravating factor' of the victim being a vulnerable road user, such as a pedestrian.
>
> This is the offence cyclists involved in crashes in which a pedestrian is killed or injured can face prosecution under, suggesting that in such cases the pedestrian's status as a vulnerable road user would be viewed as an aggravating factor and possibly contribute to a more severe sentence. The maximum sentence for such offences is two years imprisonment.
>
> "The whole framework for road traffic offences needs to be looked at and reconsidered"
>
> While Cycling UK has welcomed the prospect of longer sentences "needed in some fatal dangerous driving cases", the charity and campaign group would also like to see longer driving bans for lesser offences and more consistency "around what's treated as 'careless driving' or the more serious 'dangerous driving' offence".
>
> "Longer sentences, including life, are needed in some fatal dangerous driving cases," external affairs director Sarah McMonagle acknowledged. "However, in other cases of careless and dangerous driving, lengthy driving bans are also desperately needed — these will act as a deterrent and therefore help protect the public.
>
> "There's also a real problem with how our road traffic laws operate, with little consistency around what's treated as 'careless driving' or the more serious 'dangerous driving' offence.

And of course, when it comes to inconsistency, there's the whole problem
of there not yet being a specific offence of causing death or injury by
reckless, careless of dangerous cycling (eg, cycling along a footway or
the wrong way in a one-way street).

It is URGENTLY needed, as any responsible cyclist will agree.

>
> "The whole framework for road traffic offences needs to be looked at and reconsidered – a promise made by the government back in 2014, and since then, kicked into the long grass by successive ministers. Victims have been waiting for this review of our road traffic laws for nine years. It's high time the government delivered."
>
> https://road.cc/content/news/killing-cyclist-added-aggravating-factor-list-302021
>

Re: Judges told killing a cyclist now an 'aggravating factor' for driving offences, could lead to longer sentences

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Subject: Re: Judges told killing a cyclist now an 'aggravating factor' for
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 by: swldx...@gmail.com - Wed, 21 Jun 2023 15:25 UTC

Muddy Ford | 378 posts | 1 hour ago
5 likes
They must also reinforce losing the licence when 12pts have been accumulated, and get rid of the 'extreme hardship' get out. Anyone who would face extreme hardship if they lost their licence should drive with more consideration for the driving laws.

When a driving ban is imposed, the driver should require to retake their test with proof lessons have been taken focussing on the driving offences they committed that caused them to lose their licence.

Re: Judges told killing a cyclist now an 'aggravating factor' for driving offences, could lead to longer sentences

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From: jnugent@mail.com (JNugent)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Judges told killing a cyclist now an 'aggravating factor' for
driving offences, could lead to longer sentences
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 by: JNugent - Wed, 21 Jun 2023 16:00 UTC

On 21/06/2023 04:25 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> Muddy Ford | 378 posts | 1 hour ago
> 5 likes
> They must also reinforce losing the licence when 12pts have been accumulated, and get rid of the 'extreme hardship' get out. Anyone who would face extreme hardship if they lost their licence should drive with more consideration for the driving laws.
>
> When a driving ban is imposed, the driver should require to retake their test with proof lessons have been taken focussing on the driving offences they committed that caused them to lose their licence.

Yes, M'Lud.

<snigger>

Re: Judges told killing a cyclist now an 'aggravating factor' for driving offences, could lead to longer sentences

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From: jnugent@mail.com (JNugent)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Judges told killing a cyclist now an 'aggravating factor' for
driving offences, could lead to longer sentences
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 by: JNugent - Wed, 21 Jun 2023 16:01 UTC

On 21/06/2023 04:25 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> Muddy Ford | 378 posts | 1 hour ago

> They must also reinforce losing the licence when 12pts have been accumulated, and get rid of the 'extreme hardship' get out. Anyone who would face extreme hardship if they lost their licence should drive with more consideration for the driving laws.
>
> When a driving ban is imposed, the driver should require to retake their test with proof lessons have been taken focussing on the driving offences they committed that caused them to lose their licence.

I caught one of those traffic police programmes on C5 the other evening.

The Cheshire Police stopped a vehicle with non-functioning windscreen
wipers...

How long a driving ban should be imposed on the driver, would you say?

Re: Judges told killing a cyclist now an 'aggravating factor' for driving offences, could lead to longer sentences

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Subject: Re: Judges told killing a cyclist now an 'aggravating factor' for
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 by: swldx...@gmail.com - Wed, 21 Jun 2023 16:38 UTC

causing death by careless driving when under the influence of drink or drugs

This is where the legal system needs to change. One would argue to get behind the wheel or a car while under the influence of alcohol or drugs is a 'dangerous' thing to do, yet to kill someone while you are its just careless?

Re: Judges told killing a cyclist now an 'aggravating factor' for driving offences, could lead to longer sentences

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Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Judges told killing a cyclist now an 'aggravating factor' for
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 by: JNugent - Thu, 22 Jun 2023 00:43 UTC

On 21/06/2023 05:38 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> causing death by careless driving when under the influence of drink or drugs
>
> This is where the legal system needs to change. One would argue to get behind the wheel or a car while under the influence of alcohol or drugs is a 'dangerous' thing to do, yet to kill someone while you are its just careless?

You're the one who rides home from the pub while drunk - and then boasts
about it.

Re: Judges told killing a cyclist now an 'aggravating factor' for driving offences, could lead to longer sentences

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Subject: Re: Judges told killing a cyclist now an 'aggravating factor' for
driving offences, could lead to longer sentences
From: swldxer1958@gmail.com (swldx...@gmail.com)
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 by: swldx...@gmail.com - Thu, 22 Jun 2023 04:58 UTC

I would have thought a driving offence would be an aggravating factor in killing a cyclist (cyclists are people, right?), rather than the other way around?!

I think they are saying that if the victim in a death by careless driving conviction is a vulnerable road user (rather than another driver) this is considered to be an agravating factor.

I.e. take more care around soft human bodies. Don't excuse that as "oh well it only takes a minor mistake"

Re: Judges told killing a cyclist now an 'aggravating factor' for driving offences, could lead to longer sentences

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From: Aero.Spike@mail.invalid (Spike)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Subject: Re: Judges told killing a cyclist now an 'aggravating
factor' for driving offences, could lead to longer sentences
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 by: Spike - Thu, 22 Jun 2023 08:06 UTC

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would have thought a driving offence would be an aggravating factor
> in killing a cyclist (cyclists are people, right?), rather than the other way around?!
>
> I think they are saying that if the victim in a death by careless driving
> conviction is a vulnerable road user (rather than another driver) this is
> considered to be an agravating factor.

> I.e. take more care around soft human bodies. Don't excuse that as "oh
> well it only takes a minor mistake"

…and is especially true when it comes to the most vulnerable road user of
all, the pedestrian, whose deaths at the hands of cyclists are sneeringly
dismissed as “only a handful”.

--
Spike

Re: Judges told killing a cyclist now an 'aggravating factor' for driving offences, could lead to longer sentences

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Subject: Re: Judges told killing a cyclist now an 'aggravating factor' for
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From: swldxer1958@gmail.com (swldx...@gmail.com)
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 by: swldx...@gmail.com - Thu, 22 Jun 2023 09:04 UTC

There's a description of how it works here (link is external), that's mostly in terms of sex offenders but the same principles would apply.

The maximum sentence would be whatever was in force at the time of the offence, but the current sentencing guidelines will be used.

Interesting. So given that the prior law allowed sentences up to 14 years, there is a chance this case could use the new guidelines and result in a more appropriate sentence than we are used to seeing.

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Subject: Re: Judges told killing a cyclist now an 'aggravating factor' for
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 by: JNugent - Thu, 22 Jun 2023 13:47 UTC

On 22/06/2023 10:04 am, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> There's a description of how it works here (link is external), that's mostly in terms of sex offenders but the same principles would apply.

Not for nothing have you established that link between cyclists and
sex-offenders.

Do you remember the news story of the chav-cyclist who was having sex
with his bicycle in a hotel - and invited the chambermaid to watch him?

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 by: JNugent - Thu, 22 Jun 2023 13:47 UTC

On 22/06/2023 05:58 am, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> I would have thought a driving offence would be an aggravating factor in killing a cyclist (cyclists are people, right?), rather than the other way around?!
>
> I think

There's your mistake straightaway. You *don't*.

> they are saying that if the victim in a death by careless driving conviction is a vulnerable road user (rather than another driver) this is considered to be an agravating factor.
>
> I.e. take more care around soft human bodies. Don't excuse that as "oh well it only takes a minor mistake"
>

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 by: swldx...@gmail.com - Thu, 22 Jun 2023 15:39 UTC

Found the answer, it's the date of the sentencing:

In accordance with section 120 of the Coroners and Justice Act 2009, the Sentencing Council issues this definitive guideline. It applies to all offenders aged 18 and older, who are sentenced on or after the effective date of this guideline, regardless of the date of the offence.*

(Edit: there's a caveat that the offence has to be sentenced as per the law in place at the time. In the case you referenced yesterday, the offence occurred in 2021, whereas the new law came into force late June 2022, so it will be sentenced with the old guidelines. Seems it's taken a year for the sentencing council to update the guidelines, given the length of court cases, the delay probably won't affect any cases where the offence was committed post June 2022).

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