Weird!

On Saturday I spent a few hour trying to sort out electrics on the 1988
classic Hymer B544 campervan that I impulse purchased last year.

I fitted a security battery terminal breaker on the positive side of the
starter battery, for security porpoises. I switched off the feed to the
domestic circuit(s) using the big red knob (pause for Sheddi titters to
subside) on the inside of the van.

I checked that it wouldn't start. It didn't as you would expect, but the
ignition still came on, and the external lights still jbex!!

The van does have a solar panel on the roof. I'm wondering how this is
wired into the system. But shirley there would not be enough continuous
12V power in a solar panel to drive the headlights?

Mined yew as it was bright sunlight and I was inside the van at the
time, I don't know how bright the lights were.

Who knows what the previous owner did to the wiring circuits?

I don't.

Like I said. Weird!

Tone

On Mon, 15 Jan 2024 13:21:13 +0000
Hymermut <tone@email.com> wrote:

> The van does have a solar panel on the roof. I'm wondering how this is
> wired into the system. But shirley there would not be enough continuous
> 12V power in a solar panel to drive the headlights?

How big is the panel ? Typically a 1m^2 panel is rated at around
200W (lab conditions, more like 120-150W in cold bright conditions) which is
enough to drive a pair of 55W headlight bulbs.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Host: Beautiful Theory meet Inconvenient Fact
Obit: Beautiful Theory died today of factual inconsistency

On Mon, 15 Jan 2024 13:21:13 +0000, Hymermut <tone@email.com> wrote:

>Weird!
>
>On Saturday I spent a few hour trying to sort out electrics on the 1988
>classic Hymer B544 campervan that I impulse purchased last year.
>
>I fitted a security battery terminal breaker on the positive side of the
>starter battery, for security porpoises. I switched off the feed to the
>domestic circuit(s) using the big red knob (pause for Sheddi titters to
>subside) on the inside of the van.
>
>I checked that it wouldn't start. It didn't as you would expect, but the
>ignition still came on, and the external lights still jbex!!
>
>The van does have a solar panel on the roof. I'm wondering how this is
>wired into the system. But shirley there would not be enough continuous
>12V power in a solar panel to drive the headlights?
>
>Mined yew as it was bright sunlight and I was inside the van at the
>time, I don't know how bright the lights were.
>
>Who knows what the previous owner did to the wiring circuits?
>
>I don't.
>
>Like I said. Weird!
>
>Tone
>

All bets are off - when someone has done DIY mods previously ..
John T.

On Mon, 15 Jan 2024 13:21:13 +0000, Hymermut <tone@email.com> wrote:

>The van does have a solar panel on the roof. I'm wondering how this is
>wired into the system. But shirley there would not be enough continuous
>12V power in a solar panel to drive the headlights?
>
>Mined yew as it was bright sunlight and I was inside the van at the
>time, I don't know how bright the lights were.

Prod the cigarette lighter (assuming the one that causes a metal plate to glow)
and turn on any rear window heater, if so fitted. That should be anything from 4
to 8 amps for the lighter, and the heater 20, 25 amps? extra load... And *that*
current draw should let the voltage of the solar panel drop enough to see the
ignition shut off, assuming that it's the solar panel powering the headlights.

(Is there any reason to not do this? Can't think of any, really, but Just
Asking.)

Thomas Prufer

hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:

> Hymermut <wrote:

Original message didn't make it to NIN?

>> On Saturday I spent a few hour trying to sort out electrics on the 1988
>> classic Hymer B544 campervan

If it has scotchlock connectors, might as well just douse it with petrol
and fling a match ...

On 15/01/2024 15:39, Thomas Prufer wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Jan 2024 13:21:13 +0000, Hymermut <tone@email.com> wrote:
>
>> The van does have a solar panel on the roof. I'm wondering how this is
>> wired into the system. But shirley there would not be enough continuous
>> 12V power in a solar panel to drive the headlights?
>>
>> Mined yew as it was bright sunlight and I was inside the van at the
>> time, I don't know how bright the lights were.
>
> Prod the cigarette lighter (assuming the one that causes a metal plate to glow)
> and turn on any rear window heater, if so fitted. That should be anything from 4
> to 8 amps for the lighter, and the heater 20, 25 amps? extra load... And *that*
> current draw should let the voltage of the solar panel drop enough to see the
> ignition shut off, assuming that it's the solar panel powering the headlights.
>
> (Is there any reason to not do this? Can't think of any, really, but Just
> Asking.)
>
>
> Thomas Prufer

Cigarette lighter? Window heaters? You must be joking!

I could try the wipers.

Tone

On 15/01/2024 14:42, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> How big is the panel ?

Dunno exactly. I can't get up there.

Typically a 1m^2 panel is rated at around
> 200W (lab conditions, more like 120-150W in cold bright conditions) which is
> enough to drive a pair of 55W headlight bulbs.
>
> --

That surprises me. So if that is wired into the ignition circuit
somewhere, isolating the battery positive terminal won't isolate the
entire system. At least it's proving the solar panel jbexs.

Next time I venture forth to the storage site*, I'll see if there is any
way I can switch the panel input of. There is a white box thingy lurking
up by the roof, but I've ignored it so far as I've no idea what it's
doing there.

*Too cold for me ATM.

Tone

On 2024-01-15, Hymermut <tone@email.com> wrote:
> On 15/01/2024 14:42, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> How big is the panel ?
>
> Dunno exactly. I can't get up there.
>
> Typically a 1m^2 panel is rated at around
>> 200W (lab conditions, more like 120-150W in cold bright conditions) which is
>> enough to drive a pair of 55W headlight bulbs.
>>
>> --
>
> That surprises me. So if that is wired into the ignition circuit
> somewhere, isolating the battery positive terminal won't isolate the
> entire system. At least it's proving the solar panel jbexs.
>
> Next time I venture forth to the storage site*, I'll see if there is any
> way I can switch the panel input of. There is a white box thingy lurking
> up by the roof, but I've ignored it so far as I've no idea what it's
> doing there.
>
> *Too cold for me ATM.
>
> Tone
>
>
>
>
It can take very little power to start a petrol engine on a warm day.
Two semi-mechanics working on the same vehicle is a recipe for the
disaster. Doing it in a garden with hedges all around can lead to people
chasing the runaway vehicle across several fields.

--
greymausg@mail.com
Is There not even an .Influencer to impale?
Charles I, beheaded, Charles II, killed by doctors, What is happen to Chuck III?

On 15/01/2024 20:01, maus wrote:

> It can take very little power to start a petrol engine on a warm day.
> Two semi-mechanics working on the same vehicle is a recipe for the
> disaster. Doing it in a garden with hedges all around can lead to people
> chasing the runaway vehicle across several fields.
>
With Yakety Sax playing in the background?

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Hymermut <tone@email.com> wrote:
> Weird!
>
> On Saturday I spent a few hour trying to sort out electrics on the 1988
> classic Hymer B544 campervan that I impulse purchased last year.
>
> I fitted a security battery terminal breaker on the positive side of the
> starter battery, for security porpoises. I switched off the feed to the
> domestic circuit(s) using the big red knob (pause for Sheddi titters to
> subside) on the inside of the van.
>
> I checked that it wouldn't start. It didn't as you would expect, but the
> ignition still came on, and the external lights still jbex!!
>
> The van does have a solar panel on the roof. I'm wondering how this is
> wired into the system. But shirley there would not be enough continuous
> 12V power in a solar panel to drive the headlights?
>
> Mined yew as it was bright sunlight and I was inside the van at the
> time, I don't know how bright the lights were.
>
> Who knows what the previous owner did to the wiring circuits?
>
> I don't.
>
> Like I said. Weird!
>
> Tone
>

One possibility is as follows:

It is common practice to connect the output of the Solar controller direct
to the Leisure battery.

Depending on the Solar controller, vehicle 12V control box, and / or how
the charging of the engine battery from Solar has been arranged, it is
quite feasible your Leisure battery is in parallel with your engine battery
( it should normally be isolated unless being charged or, on some
configurations, it can be used as a fall back. ) I am ignoring powering the
fridge while driving, although it is possible the Solar wiring is
circumventing the logic of that. *

* As I expect you know, three way fridges run on 12v while the engine
ignition is on. Depending on the vehicle, this can be arranged in several
ways.

Some vehicles actually draw power from the engine battery / alternator,
others sense the ignition is on, and use the Leisure batteries, which are
being charged by the alternator. Some fridges are automatic and do the
sensing internally.

Give the age of your MH, my guess is someone was added the Solar across the
Leisure battery - which is fine for some vehicles - but it has ‘confused’
yours OR they have connected across both.
The wiring will handle the current for the lights but not crank the engine.

If I may make a suggestion, add a hidden switch in the supply to the fuel
pump, rather than the battery.

In article <uo479a$130id$1@dont-email.me>, Brian <noinv@lid.org> on
Mon, 15 Jan 2024 at 21:15:22 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>If I may make a suggestion, add a hidden switch in the supply to the fuel
>pump, rather than the battery.
>

I had a fiend of 50+ years ago did just that to his mini(? Or some other
small car like a fiesta). He took it in for some minor servicing. When
to pick it up to find the garage were about to strip out the wiring
harness. They had taken the car out to test it and it had spluttered to
a stop after a 100 yards. He had not told them about the hidden switch.
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

On 15/01/2024 21:15, Brian wrote:
> Give the age of your MH, my guess is someone was added the Solar across the
> Leisure battery - which is fine for some vehicles - but it has ‘confused’
> yours OR they have connected across both.
> The wiring will handle the current for the lights but not crank the engine.
>

This may be the case.

> If I may make a suggestion, add a hidden switch in the supply to the fuel
> pump, rather than the battery.

As the engine cover is locked from the outside, two keys necessary for
access, isolating the starter battery is a sufficient deterrent from
theft, but my main reason for doing it was to stop the battery from
going flat when not in use for long winter periods. There seems to be a
slight discharge with ignition off that I haven't identified yet.

Tone

Hymermut <tone@email.com> wrote:
> On 15/01/2024 21:15, Brian wrote:
>> Give the age of your MH, my guess is someone was added the Solar across the
>> Leisure battery - which is fine for some vehicles - but it has ‘confused’
>> yours OR they have connected across both.
>> The wiring will handle the current for the lights but not crank the engine.
>>
>
> This may be the case.
>
>
>> If I may make a suggestion, add a hidden switch in the supply to the fuel
>> pump, rather than the battery.
>
> As the engine cover is locked from the outside, two keys necessary for
> access, isolating the starter battery is a sufficient deterrent from
> theft, but my main reason for doing it was to stop the battery from
> going flat when not in use for long winter periods. There seems to be a
> slight discharge with ignition off that I haven't identified yet.
>
> Tone
>
>
>

Assuming it is the reason, the other problem is you can ‘flatten’ your
engine battery when you think you are only using your Leisure batteries.

Motor homes are normally wired so both batteries charge when the engine is
running. On hook up, the batteries are isolated from each other. Depending
on the system, either auto or manual, the batteries are charged. On mine,
the Leisure battery is charged by a smart charger and there is a float
charging circuit which keeps the engine battery charged. On some systems
you can switch to use the engine battery for habitation use. However, you
need to be careful, especially if the system doesn’t prevent you
discharging the engine battery too far- below the cranking level.

Your phantom drain suggests the wiring is ‘dubious’. I’d recommend getting
it checked, assuming you don’t know enough yourself.

On 16/01/2024 00:41, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
> In article <uo479a$130id$1@dont-email.me>, Brian <noinv@lid.org> on
> Mon, 15 Jan 2024 at 21:15:22 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>> If I may make a suggestion, add a hidden switch in the supply to the fuel
>> pump, rather than the battery.
>>
>
> I had a fiend of 50+ years ago did just that to his mini(? Or some other
> small car like a fiesta). He took it in for some minor servicing. When
> to pick it up to find the garage were about to strip out the wiring
> harness. They had taken the car out to test it and it had spluttered to
> a stop after a 100 yards. He had not told them about the hidden switch.

You probably don't even need to hide the switch. It can be bright read
and most people will not even notice it in the average engine compartment!

Chris

Is it negative Earth then? Has it got more than one battery? I remember
being very confused about our old Commer because it had a positive Earth,
which I thought went out with the last war, but no, if you fitted a cassette
unit it would short out the battery.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Hymermut" <tone@email.com> wrote in message
news:uo3bgd$udo3$1@dont-email.me...
> Weird!
>
> On Saturday I spent a few hour trying to sort out electrics on the 1988
> classic Hymer B544 campervan that I impulse purchased last year.
>
> I fitted a security battery terminal breaker on the positive side of the
> starter battery, for security porpoises. I switched off the feed to the
> domestic circuit(s) using the big red knob (pause for Sheddi titters to
> subside) on the inside of the van.
>
> I checked that it wouldn't start. It didn't as you would expect, but the
> ignition still came on, and the external lights still jbex!!
>
> The van does have a solar panel on the roof. I'm wondering how this is
> wired into the system. But shirley there would not be enough continuous
> 12V power in a solar panel to drive the headlights?
>
> Mined yew as it was bright sunlight and I was inside the van at the time,
> I don't know how bright the lights were.
>
> Who knows what the previous owner did to the wiring circuits?
>
> I don't.
>
> Like I said. Weird!
>
> Tone

No you only do that on Citroen estate cars with their IDC connections. Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Tease'n'Seize" <tease-and-seize@invalid> wrote in message
news:cd-dnQyVpq5fyDj4nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk...
> hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
>
>> Hymermut <wrote:
>
> Original message didn't make it to NIN?
>
>>> On Saturday I spent a few hour trying to sort out electrics on the 1988
>>> classic Hymer B544 campervan
>
> If it has scotchlock connectors, might as well just douse it with petrol
> and fling a match ...
>

On 16/01/2024 15:22, Brian Gaff wrote:
> Is it negative Earth then? Has it got more than one battery? I remember
> being very confused about our old Commer because it had a positive Earth,
> which I thought went out with the last war, but no, if you fitted a cassette
> unit it would short out the battery.
> Brian
>

My 1966 Mark 2 Jag came out of the factory with a positive earth.

I believe that most Jag models fitted with dynamos were also positve
earth, until the various models went over to alternators at some point
in the late 60s.

I guess it might depend on your definition of the "last war"

As far as I know, the only real problem with them was with the fitting
of after-market radios which were mostly neg eath

On 16/01/2024 20:26, Abandoned Trolley wrote:

> As far as I know, the only real problem with them was with the fitting
> of after-market radios which were mostly neg earth

In the days of dynamos, swapping a vehicle from positive to negative
earth was a matter of minutes with no new parts needed.

Swap the two LT wires on the ignition coil, disconnect the battery,
connect it as required, briefly flash the field winding of the dynamo
from the battery (Bypassing the regulator) to polarise it, then start
the engine. The ammeter, if one is fitted, will, of course now read in
reverse unless the connections are swapped.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 16/01/2024 09:38, Brian wrote:
> Your phantom drain suggests the wiring is ‘dubious’. I’d recommend getting
> it checked, assuming you don’t know enough yourself.

I'm trying to find one that will give me a firm date for the work or at
least reply to my emails. They all seem reluctant to get involved.

Tone