We have a plum tree labelled as a Victoria, bought a couple of years ago
from Homebase.

It is fruiting well, but the fruit look much darker than the Victoria we
used to have at our last house.

Will sort out posting pictures, but how easy is it to confirm/deny the
variety from looking at ripe fruit?

I recall the Victorias as being much lighter in colour, and also having a
softer, more juicy and transparent flesh.

Cheers

Dave R

--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

--
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On Sat, 06 Aug 2022 14:35:29 +0000, David wrote:

> We have a plum tree labelled as a Victoria, bought a couple of years ago
> from Homebase.
>
> It is fruiting well, but the fruit look much darker than the Victoria we
> used to have at our last house.
>
> Will sort out posting pictures, but how easy is it to confirm/deny the
> variety from looking at ripe fruit?
>
> I recall the Victorias as being much lighter in colour, and also having
> a softer, more juicy and transparent flesh.

<http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Victoria_1.jpg>

<http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Victoria_2.jpg>

<http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Label_and_sample_Victoria.jpg>

The fruit matches the picture on the label but doesn't match the fruit
from our previous Victoria not the usual Victorias bought in the shops.
They are usually much paler.

The label also says the fruit should be ready in September, and describes
it as Autumn fruiting but this is not an average year (so far) as we are
picking them early August.

The latest one I tried seemed to be a bit more ripe and taste a bit more
like a traditional Victoria.

Are there variants of Victoria (that is, not all vegetative propagation by
cutting from one original tree)?

Puzzled.

Dave R

--
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On 06/08/2022 16:13, David wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Aug 2022 14:35:29 +0000, David wrote:
>
>> We have a plum tree labelled as a Victoria, bought a couple of years ago
>> from Homebase.
>>
>> It is fruiting well, but the fruit look much darker than the Victoria we
>> used to have at our last house.
>>
>> Will sort out posting pictures, but how easy is it to confirm/deny the
>> variety from looking at ripe fruit?
>>
>> I recall the Victorias as being much lighter in colour, and also having
>> a softer, more juicy and transparent flesh.
>
> <http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Victoria_1.jpg>
>
> <http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Victoria_2.jpg>
>
> <http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Label_and_sample_Victoria.jpg>
>
> The fruit matches the picture on the label but doesn't match the fruit
> from our previous Victoria not the usual Victorias bought in the shops.
> They are usually much paler.
>
> The label also says the fruit should be ready in September, and describes
> it as Autumn fruiting but this is not an average year (so far) as we are
> picking them early August.
>
> The latest one I tried seemed to be a bit more ripe and taste a bit more
> like a traditional Victoria.
>
> Are there variants of Victoria (that is, not all vegetative propagation by
> cutting from one original tree)?
>
> Puzzled.
>
>
>
> Dave R
>
>
we have a Victoria and our fruit is quite variable depending on how much
sun it is exposed to, so some of ours is dark like yours and some
lighter and pinker (even when ripe) but as it is the only plum we have I
cant say that it is not something else!

--
Charlie Pridham
Gardening in Cornwall
www.roselandhouse.co.uk

On 06/08/2022 16:13, David wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Aug 2022 14:35:29 +0000, David wrote:
>
>> We have a plum tree labelled as a Victoria, bought a couple of years ago
>> from Homebase.
>>
>> It is fruiting well, but the fruit look much darker than the Victoria we
>> used to have at our last house.
>>
>> Will sort out posting pictures, but how easy is it to confirm/deny the
>> variety from looking at ripe fruit?
>>
>> I recall the Victorias as being much lighter in colour, and also having
>> a softer, more juicy and transparent flesh.
>
> <http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Victoria_1.jpg>
>
> <http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Victoria_2.jpg>
>
> <http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Label_and_sample_Victoria.jpg>
>
> The fruit matches the picture on the label but doesn't match the fruit
> from our previous Victoria not the usual Victorias bought in the shops.
> They are usually much paler.

Those examples don't match the fruit usually sold as Victoria plum which
usually have a proportion of yellow visible (although can be dark red if
they are on the side in full sun). neighbours are almost ripe now.

This is more typical of what I would call a Victoria plum.

https://www.ornamental-trees.co.uk/victoria-plum-tree-p179

The ones in shops are picked slightly under ripe so more yellow than
when they are on the tree but most still have flashes of yellow on.
>
> The label also says the fruit should be ready in September, and describes
> it as Autumn fruiting but this is not an average year (so far) as we are
> picking them early August.
>
> The latest one I tried seemed to be a bit more ripe and taste a bit more
> like a traditional Victoria.
>
> Are there variants of Victoria (that is, not all vegetative propagation by
> cutting from one original tree)?

I don't think so. There is some variation with growing conditions nad
the ones on the sunnier side are definitely much darker red.
Victoria_1.jpg could definitely be slightly overripe Victoria plums.

This one though I don't think is Victoria at all but I don't know what
it is - the skin is too purple ( or the colour balance is off).

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Label_and_sample_Victoria.jpg

Marjories seedling or Junilee would be my best guess at it. You really
need to find a soft fruit show and take a sample along. With any luck
there will be a stone fruit expert there who will take one look/bite of
it and tell you exactly what it is. Or alternatively jump up and down
with joy and ask for for a few cuttings to propagate (as happened at our
nearby walled garden when they found several lost to cultivation
varieties of apple and plum when the experts came to take a look).

Here are a selection of common cultivars with pictures:
https://www.ornamental-trees.co.uk/plum-gage-damson-trees-c87

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Tue, 9 Aug 2022 08:58:20 Martin Brown wrote:

>On 06/08/2022 16:13, David wrote:
>> On Sat, 06 Aug 2022 14:35:29 +0000, David wrote:
>>
>>> We have a plum tree labelled as a Victoria, bought a couple of years
>>>ago
>>> from Homebase.
>>>
>>> It is fruiting well, but the fruit look much darker than the Victoria we
>>> used to have at our last house.
>>>
>>> Will sort out posting pictures, but how easy is it to confirm/deny the
>>> variety from looking at ripe fruit?
>>>
>>> I recall the Victorias as being much lighter in colour, and also having
>>> a softer, more juicy and transparent flesh.
>> <http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Victoria_1.jpg>
>> <http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Victoria_2.jpg>
>>
>><http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Label_and_sample_Victoria.jpg>
>> The fruit matches the picture on the label but doesn't match the
>>fruit
>> from our previous Victoria not the usual Victorias bought in the shops.
>> They are usually much paler.
>
>Those examples don't match the fruit usually sold as Victoria plum
>which usually have a proportion of yellow visible (although can be dark
>red if they are on the side in full sun). neighbours are almost ripe now.
>
>This is more typical of what I would call a Victoria plum.
>
>https://www.ornamental-trees.co.uk/victoria-plum-tree-p179

Agreed. That's what mine look like.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK

On 09/08/2022 08:58, Martin Brown wrote:
> This one though I don't think is Victoria at all but I don't know what
> it is - the skin is too purple ( or the colour balance is off).
>
> http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Label_and_sample_Victoria.jpg
Looks like a Czar to me

--
Of what good are dead warriors? … Warriors are those who desire battle
more than peace. Those who seek battle despite peace. Those who thump
their spears on the ground and talk of honor. Those who leap high the
battle dance and dream of glory … The good of dead warriors, Mother, is
that they are dead.
Sheri S Tepper: The Awakeners.

On Tue, 09 Aug 2022 14:17:49 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 09/08/2022 08:58, Martin Brown wrote:
>> This one though I don't think is Victoria at all but I don't know what
>> it is - the skin is too purple ( or the colour balance is off).
>>
>> http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Label_and_sample_Victoria.jpg
> Looks like a Czar to me

Definitely not a Czar.
we have grown these in the past and they are more cookers than eaters.

We've just eaten the last of them and when fully ripe they do taste like
Victorias.

Given that they have all been in full sun (young tree) and have had so
much sun that they have been very warm to the touch I am still favouring
the theory that they are sun tanned.

Cheers

Dave R

--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

On Tue, 09 Aug 2022 08:58:20 +0100, Martin Brown wrote:

<snip>
>
> Marjories seedling or Junilee would be my best guess at it. You really
> need to find a soft fruit show and take a sample along. With any luck
> there will be a stone fruit expert there who will take one look/bite of
> it and tell you exactly what it is. Or alternatively jump up and down
> with joy and ask for for a few cuttings to propagate (as happened at our
> nearby walled garden when they found several lost to cultivation
> varieties of apple and plum when the experts came to take a look).
>
> Here are a selection of common cultivars with pictures:
> https://www.ornamental-trees.co.uk/plum-gage-damson-trees-c87

Too late this year.
We have eaten them.
However, where do you find these soft fruit shows in mid-August?

Cheers

Dave R

--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

On Tue, 09 Aug 2022 08:58:20 +0100, Martin Brown wrote:

> On 06/08/2022 16:13, David wrote:
>> On Sat, 06 Aug 2022 14:35:29 +0000, David wrote:
>>
>>> We have a plum tree labelled as a Victoria, bought a couple of years
>>> ago from Homebase.
>>>
>>> It is fruiting well, but the fruit look much darker than the Victoria
>>> we used to have at our last house.
>>>
>>> Will sort out posting pictures, but how easy is it to confirm/deny the
>>> variety from looking at ripe fruit?
>>>
>>> I recall the Victorias as being much lighter in colour, and also
>>> having a softer, more juicy and transparent flesh.
>>
>> <http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Victoria_1.jpg>
>>
>> <http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Victoria_2.jpg>
>>
>> <http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Label_and_sample_Victoria.jpg " rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Label_and_sample_Victoria.jpg>
>>
>> The fruit matches the picture on the label but doesn't match the fruit
>> from our previous Victoria not the usual Victorias bought in the shops.
>> They are usually much paler.
>
> Those examples don't match the fruit usually sold as Victoria plum which
> usually have a proportion of yellow visible (although can be dark red if
> they are on the side in full sun). neighbours are almost ripe now.
>
> This is more typical of what I would call a Victoria plum.
>
> https://www.ornamental-trees.co.uk/victoria-plum-tree-p179
>
> The ones in shops are picked slightly under ripe so more yellow than
> when they are on the tree but most still have flashes of yellow on.
>>
>> The label also says the fruit should be ready in September, and
>> describes it as Autumn fruiting but this is not an average year (so
>> far) as we are picking them early August.
>>
>> The latest one I tried seemed to be a bit more ripe and taste a bit
>> more like a traditional Victoria.
>>
>> Are there variants of Victoria (that is, not all vegetative propagation
>> by cutting from one original tree)?
>
> I don't think so. There is some variation with growing conditions nad
> the ones on the sunnier side are definitely much darker red.
> Victoria_1.jpg could definitely be slightly overripe Victoria plums.
>
> This one though I don't think is Victoria at all but I don't know what
> it is - the skin is too purple ( or the colour balance is off).
>
> http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:Label_and_sample_Victoria.jpg
>
> Marjories seedling or Junilee would be my best guess at it. You really
> need to find a soft fruit show and take a sample along. With any luck
> there will be a stone fruit expert there who will take one look/bite of
> it and tell you exactly what it is. Or alternatively jump up and down
> with joy and ask for for a few cuttings to propagate (as happened at our
> nearby walled garden when they found several lost to cultivation
> varieties of apple and plum when the experts came to take a look).
>
> Here are a selection of common cultivars with pictures:
> https://www.ornamental-trees.co.uk/plum-gage-damson-trees-c87

Thanks for the link.

Marjorie Seedling looks possible.

Czar definitely not because of the shape (and I have previous experience
of Czar).

Rivers Early Prolific looks a strong possibility as the fruiting period
matches as well as the picture. Not sure that they are smaller than most,
though.

Still think it could be a suntanned Victoria.

Cheers

Dave R

--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 7 Pro x64

On 20/08/2022 12:53, David wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Aug 2022 08:58:20 +0100, Martin Brown wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>
>> Marjories seedling or Junilee would be my best guess at it. You really
>> need to find a soft fruit show and take a sample along. With any luck
>> there will be a stone fruit expert there who will take one look/bite of
>> it and tell you exactly what it is. Or alternatively jump up and down
>> with joy and ask for for a few cuttings to propagate (as happened at our
>> nearby walled garden when they found several lost to cultivation
>> varieties of apple and plum when the experts came to take a look).
>>
>> Here are a selection of common cultivars with pictures:
>> https://www.ornamental-trees.co.uk/plum-gage-damson-trees-c87
>
> Too late this year.
> We have eaten them.
> However, where do you find these soft fruit shows in mid-August?

Local agricultural shows flower and produce section of which there are
many varying from small village events with handful of exhibitors to
major ones at county scale.

Some like our local Cleveland Show have unfortunately folded due to the
effects of of Covid. But any where soft and stone fruit is a category
ought to have someone who is fairly good at fruit ID judging it.

https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19740958.cleveland-show-end-75-years-exhibiting-best-teesside/

Our local walled garden does an apple show most years - they have some
rare and unusual cultivars. Several National Trust places do quite
extensive ones usually of apples and pears. Plums don't last so well.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown