Long pots is one secret, they romp away. I've a load of old celluloid?
pill-pots (before polyethelene pots came in for vit pills etc) , I see
them holding buttons in haberdashers,150mm long, 30mm diameter. Requires
cutting axially to remove plants , as not tapered. Seems the leaves turn
orange in response to cold wind, not disease, and no lasting harm.
The other secret is bits of cut old bramble stem heaped around the
plants, no slug damage seen.
Looks like all the established echium stands in Southamton did not
survive the winter frosts and not only that ,no self-seeding plantlets
around them this year. That is the case for a few of the sites on the
Isle of Wight, but luckily not all. Bus tour of IoW , loads of flowering
examples around Niton, St Catherines Rd, Puckaster Lane and gone wild
ones taken over the roadside SandRock Rd. Plenty of survivors around
Ventnor , Alpine Rd, Zigzag and central car park and my favorites taken
over the monumental masonry , growing between the joins of the stonework
and the graves in St Catherines Church, Chale a couple of examples
including the old rectory, and Cowes on the corner of Park and Victoria
rds, and a house south of Carisbrooke business centre. Latest Google
Earth probably shows the winter time black fingers of their main echium
bed , into the air, at 50_35_20N , 1_13_47W at Ventnor Botanic Garden.

--
Global sea level rise to 2100 from curve-fitted existing altimetry data
<http://diverse.4mg.com/slr.htm>

One longterm site of echiums survived in Southampton , corner of St
Denys Rd and Belmont Rd , but no flowering this year. Some seedlings in
last couple of weeks and a couple growing in the mortar of the mainroad
brick wall, two foot above the ground. Now I've told the gardner ,
perhaps he'll pull to preserve the wall, interesting otherwise if they
survive the summer

--
Global sea level rise to 2100 from curve-fitted existing altimetry data
<http://diverse.4mg.com/slr.htm>

On 24/05/2023 14:24, N_Cook wrote:
> One longterm site of echiums survived in Southampton , corner of St
> Denys Rd and Belmont Rd , but no flowering this year. Some seedlings in
> last couple of weeks and a couple growing in the mortar of the mainroad
> brick wall, two foot above the ground. Now I've told the gardner ,
> perhaps he'll pull to preserve the wall, interesting otherwise if they
> survive the summer

Thanks for the info. I don't usually cross the Itchen by the Cobden
Bridge, but next year I'll go that route around this time of year to see
if there are any flowers.

--

Jeff

On 24/05/2023 17:05, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 24/05/2023 14:24, N_Cook wrote:
>> One longterm site of echiums survived in Southampton , corner of St
>> Denys Rd and Belmont Rd , but no flowering this year. Some seedlings in
>> last couple of weeks and a couple growing in the mortar of the mainroad
>> brick wall, two foot above the ground. Now I've told the gardner ,
>> perhaps he'll pull to preserve the wall, interesting otherwise if they
>> survive the summer
>
> Thanks for the info. I don't usually cross the Itchen by the Cobden
> Bridge, but next year I'll go that route around this time of year to see
> if there are any flowers.
>

I could not see any echium at the house in Portswood Rs, corner with
Brickfiled , Kitchener or Sirdar not noted which. But a gardner there
keeps back some plants in the greenhouse ,so maybe some later on.

--
Global sea level rise to 2100 from curve-fitted existing altimetry data
<http://diverse.4mg.com/slr.htm>

On 24/05/2023 14:24, N_Cook wrote:
> One longterm site of echiums survived in Southampton , corner of St
> Denys Rd and Belmont Rd , but no flowering this year. Some seedlings in
> last couple of weeks and a couple growing in the mortar of the mainroad
> brick wall, two foot above the ground. Now I've told the gardner ,
> perhaps he'll pull to preserve the wall, interesting otherwise if they
> survive the summer
>

I've decided to donate a bit of brick garden wall for an echium
experiment. Drill a hole angled down into a mortar join and hotmelt glue
half a plastic bottle cap to the top. Drop a seedling in there, fill up
with seived compost and vermiculite and water until established, as now
past its winter/spring time natural colonistion period of stone or
brickwork. Break off the bottle cap at some point. I find the
"engineering" fascinating, not only height but girth goes on very fast.
Stems grow to 4 or 5 inches in diameter in a few months ,but you never
see wind having blown down a 4 or 5m high spike. The wood is like balsa,
very low density.
But great thick stems growing out of a qurter inch gap in stonework.

--
Global sea level rise to 2100 from curve-fitted existing altimetry data
<http://diverse.4mg.com/slr.htm>

The Belmont Rd/St Denys Rd plants are still in his wall. My wall host
experiment is doing well,stem initially horizontal , now the stem has
turned vertical. Initially 2 waterings a day, from now on 1 a day and
then with the next rain, I'll try leaving it to its own devices.
Next echium themed project, The woody stem of my first effort is still
around, a 4 inch diameter hollow wood tube about 5 foot long with evenly
spaced and staggered radially arrayed holes around, where the leaves
emerged. I know a flute maker, when I next see him , I'll ask whether
it would be possible to minimally fashion into a sort of combination
didgery-doo and weird tuning bassoon by plugging some of the holes.

--
Global sea level rise to 2100 from curve-fitted existing altimetry data
<http://diverse.4mg.com/slr.htm>

My wall planting is going well with one watering a day, as no rain so
far, a wreathe of bramble around the stem against slug attack.
I dropped into the NGS open garden at Mappercombe Manor, Nettlecombe,
Dorset yesterday.
Plenty of echiums growing out of dry stone walls there. They had frosts
last winter and that caused the "pollarding" I thought was due to
gardeners pruning or wind damage. Knocks out the tip and then side
shoots emerge the next year, leading to numerous short flower spikes.

--
Global sea level rise to 2100 from curve-fitted existing altimetry data
<http://diverse.4mg.com/slr.htm>

The only flowering examples that survived the winter in Southampton,
I've seen. Both in Hillside Avenue, Bitterne Park, no 36 full height
14foot or so flower spike and a perhaps winter damaged side spur lesser
flower spike at no 44.
Other than frost and cold wind turning the leaves red/brown, lack of
soil depth. One of my long pots , the compost settled leaving a gap so
only an inch of soil for the transplant and all the leaves went
orangey/reddish/brown, since recovered transplanting again.

--
Global sea level rise to 2100 from curve-fitted existing altimetry data
<http://diverse.4mg.com/slr.htm>

On 25/06/2023 15:39, N_Cook wrote:
> the leaves went orangey/reddish/brown, since recovered transplanting again

the brownish leaves turned green after a couple of days

--
Global sea level rise to 2100 from curve-fitted existing altimetry data
<http://diverse.4mg.com/slr.htm>

One of the local echium owners who works a lot around many parts of
London had ever seen any there, and thought they must like sea air.
Saw some on news coverage near the pier at Bournemouth and googling
shows they are salt tolerant. So as another experiment I've planted some
just above the tide line of the local river, floods to that level
occassionally.
My wall planting experiment, surviving but I'd not say thriving

--
Global sea level rise to 2100 from curve-fitted existing altimetry data
<http://diverse.4mg.com/slr.htm>

Pretty sure the echium pininana I got from Ventnor Botanic gardens last
year in august, will not be flowering this year. If it survives the
second winter with some plastic hessian over frosts, going by the
present height , should be impressive next year.
The EP plant that came from pompey docks, Porters Garden this year is
alwost as big and some of my own seedlings of early this year are
thriving, coutesy of bunds of bits of bramble surrounding them.
My wall experiment (no watering by me required for many weeks, so much
rain) one and ones in saline ground are surviving

--
Global sea level rise to 2100 from curve-fitted existing altimetry data
<http://diverse.4mg.com/slr.htm>

I tried 30 or so of this years shaking and seed retrieval.
Only 2 germinated and instead of the bright lime green of the
germinations from last years seeds, dull green , slow growing and may be
turning grey, perhaps like last year (qv). Nothing to do with lack of
heat . I'll try putting some seeds in the nonfreezing section of the
fridge , to see if they need a rest/cool period , for proper germination.
A few more echium sites in 2023
12 River Rd, Littlehampton
Houseboats at Pettinger Gardens, Southampton
Corner Kent Rd/ Ashburton Rd, Southsea
Opposite S Parade Pier along Clarebdon Rd,Southsea
Southsea Green community garden

--
Global sea level rise to 2100 from curve-fitted existing altimetry data
<http://diverse.4mg.com/slr.htm>

On 08/09/2023 08:55, N_Cook wrote:
> I tried 30 or so of this years shaking and seed retrieval.
> Only 2 germinated and instead of the bright lime green of the
> germinations from last years seeds, dull green , slow growing and may be
> turning grey, perhaps like last year (qv). Nothing to do with lack of
> heat . I'll try putting some seeds in the nonfreezing section of the
> fridge , to see if they need a rest/cool period , for proper germination.
> A few more echium sites in 2023
> 12 River Rd, Littlehampton
> Houseboats at Pettinger Gardens, Southampton
> Corner Kent Rd/ Ashburton Rd, Southsea
> Opposite S Parade Pier along Clarebdon Rd,Southsea
> Southsea Green community garden
>
I don't tend to visit Soton and Portsmouth in summer - too many visitors
and too hot! It's a pity that there aren't any "giant" echiums grown at
the SHHG according to their database.

--

Jeff

On 15/04/2023 15:16, N_Cook wrote:
> For the late developer seedlings I've made some long cone pots.
> I'd a part roll of bricklayers plastic DPC, 11cm wide, cut into 10&12cm
> long side trapeziums. Formed into part cones with 3 different size
> temporary O rings, and a run of hot melt glue along the join , and 4
> blobs at the bottom.
> To weakly retain a wad of ,trying out, cotton wool balls and also bits
> of hessian sack. That way I can reuse with new wads, if necessary.
> I'll also try one of these long pots for a new sowing , with seeds only
> 5mm apart , to see how long the tap roots grow, before true leaves form.
>
>

Going by leaf spread the ones potted-on in long pots have caught up with
the ones potted-on 3 weeks earlier into normal small pots, all have been
outdoors after potting on.

--
Global sea level rise to 2100 from curve-fitted existing altimetry data
<http://diverse.4mg.com/slr.htm>

On 08/09/2023 10:00, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 08/09/2023 08:55, N_Cook wrote:
>> I tried 30 or so of this years shaking and seed retrieval.
>> Only 2 germinated and instead of the bright lime green of the
>> germinations from last years seeds, dull green , slow growing and may be
>> turning grey, perhaps like last year (qv). Nothing to do with lack of
>> heat . I'll try putting some seeds in the nonfreezing section of the
>> fridge , to see if they need a rest/cool period , for proper germination.
>> A few more echium sites in 2023
>> 12 River Rd, Littlehampton
>> Houseboats at Pettinger Gardens, Southampton
>> Corner Kent Rd/ Ashburton Rd, Southsea
>> Opposite S Parade Pier along Clarebdon Rd,Southsea
>> Southsea Green community garden
>>
> I don't tend to visit Soton and Portsmouth in summer - too many visitors
> and too hot! It's a pity that there aren't any "giant" echiums grown at
> the SHHG according to their database.
>

Hillier started as arboretum , which echium are not, although the woody
stems look that way. Unless pruning to stop flowering spikes might make
them quasi perennial. Light frosts knocking out the growing tips might
make them something like perennial.
Southsea is the capital in Hants and Sussex, plesant enough in summer,
peak of flowering examples July and Aug.
Otherwise IoW Ventnor , peak flowering time May and June.
I assume there are hotspots of echiums in Devon and Cornwall .

--
Global sea level rise to 2100 from curve-fitted existing altimetry data
<http://diverse.4mg.com/slr.htm>

On 08/09/2023 12:16, N_Cook wrote:
> On 08/09/2023 10:00, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> On 08/09/2023 08:55, N_Cook wrote:
>>> I tried 30 or so of this years shaking and seed retrieval.
>>> Only 2 germinated and instead of the bright lime green of the
>>> germinations from last years seeds, dull green , slow growing and may be
>>> turning grey, perhaps like last year (qv). Nothing to do with lack of
>>> heat . I'll try putting some seeds in the nonfreezing section of the
>>> fridge , to see if they need a rest/cool period , for proper germination.
>>> A few more echium sites in 2023
>>> 12 River Rd, Littlehampton
>>> Houseboats at Pettinger Gardens, Southampton
>>> Corner Kent Rd/ Ashburton Rd, Southsea
>>> Opposite S Parade Pier along Clarebdon Rd,Southsea
>>> Southsea Green community garden
>>>
>> I don't tend to visit Soton and Portsmouth in summer - too many visitors
>> and too hot! It's a pity that there aren't any "giant" echiums grown at
>> the SHHG according to their database.
>>
>
> Hillier started as arboretum , which echium are not, although the woody
> stems look that way. Unless pruning to stop flowering spikes might make
> them quasi perennial. Light frosts knocking out the growing tips might
> make them something like perennial.
> Southsea is the capital in Hants and Sussex, plesant enough in summer,
> peak of flowering examples July and Aug.
> Otherwise IoW Ventnor , peak flowering time May and June.
> I assume there are hotspots of echiums in Devon and Cornwall .

The SHHG is anything but just trees and shrubs!
<https://www.hants.gov.uk/thingstodo/hilliergardens/explore/centenary-border>
There are quite a lot of tender plants growing around Jermyn's House.

I was basing my comment about echiums on the SHHG database:
<https://websites.rbge.org.uk/multisite/?first=3>

I've seen echiums such as candicans and wildprettii growing in many
walled gardens far inland (maybe even Waterperry many years ago).

--

Jeff

On 08/09/2023 08:55, N_Cook wrote:
> I'll try putting some seeds in the nonfreezing section of the fridge ,
> to see if they need a rest/cool period , for proper germination.

Apparently this is termed,
cold stratification
,I'll try the simple dry version for a week.
Those 2 lone this season germinations are looking more and more unhealthy

--
Global sea level rise to 2100 from curve-fitted existing altimetry data
<http://diverse.4mg.com/slr.htm>

aka Viper's Bugloss, weeds of likes of Brazil and Canary Isles but the
18 foot Echium Pinanana vriety grow wild in Ventnor/Steephill of south
Isle of Wight and 15 foot or so ones in gardens of south Hampshire.
I admire the way they look as though they were made by an alien
mathematician, precisely graduated and disported leaves and flowers and
monster height, but at the same time always look drunk, flailing about.
I've been allowed to lay a sheet on the ground, rattle the stalk of
seed-set spikes in a few gardens , so have hundreds of seeds to play with.
Viability sowings late this summer seem to be about 1 in 4. The
successful ones I potted-on at about the second or third true hairy leaf
stage.
But after a few days the healthy green fades to grey green, shrivel and
die.
Adding Cheshunt compound to the watering makes no difference, being very
sparing on watering to drooping leaves before watering, makes no
difference. Wrong time of year? or any other advice?
I'm determined to get one plant at least to flowering stage.
The first year , a plant from Ventnor botanic gardens , got thru the
winter frosts with a bit of protection,no trouble, grew a handsome leaf
stem, about 1.5 inches diameter and keeled over in the next spring, I
assumed a frost had got to it. The next year a kindly gardener gave me a
plant, again got through the winter frosts and then in growth spurt
keeled over. This time I took a closer look and slugs had "ring-barked"
the stem , so perhaps the same as the prevous year. Such fearsome
hairs/spines to humans , I'd have thought slugs would be deterred , but
no. This year attempt , currently very healthy looking plants with no
slug damage at all , because of over the top slug prevention measures. A
pair of fine mesh foot-high wire mesh waste paper baskets encircling
each , cut vertically and wired back in place so easy to remove if
required next year, chopped dried bramble stems and broken egg shell on
the soil inside the baskets . When the odd leaf, all very healthy
currently , has grown enough to touch the ground then a large square of
wet and dry "sandpaper " anti-slug side up, under the leaf tip.

--
Global sea level rise to 2100 from curve-fitted existing altimetry data
<http://diverse.4mg.com/slr.htm>

On 04/10/2022 16:41, N_Cook wrote:
> aka Viper's Bugloss, weeds of likes of Brazil and Canary Isles but the
> 18 foot Echium Pinanana vriety grow wild in Ventnor/Steephill of south
> Isle of Wight and 15 foot or so ones in gardens of south Hampshire.
> I admire the way they look as though they were made by an alien
> mathematician, precisely graduated and disported leaves and flowers and
> monster height, but at the same time always look drunk, flailing about.
> I've been allowed to lay a sheet on the ground, rattle the stalk of
> seed-set spikes in a few gardens , so have hundreds of seeds to play with.
> Viability sowings late this summer seem to be about 1 in 4. The
> successful ones I potted-on at about the second or third true hairy leaf
> stage.
> But after a few days the healthy green fades to grey green, shrivel and
> die.
> Adding Cheshunt compound to the watering makes no difference, being very
> sparing on watering to drooping leaves before watering, makes no
> difference. Wrong time of year? or any other advice?
> I'm determined to get one plant at least to flowering stage.
> The first year , a plant from Ventnor botanic gardens , got thru the
> winter frosts with a bit of protection,no trouble, grew a handsome leaf
> stem, about 1.5 inches diameter and keeled over in the next spring, I
> assumed a frost had got to it. The next year a kindly gardener gave me a
> plant, again got through the winter frosts and then in growth spurt
> keeled over. This time I took a closer look and slugs had "ring-barked"
> the stem , so perhaps the same as the prevous year. Such fearsome
> hairs/spines to humans , I'd have thought slugs would be deterred , but
> no. This year attempt , currently very healthy looking plants with no
> slug damage at all , because of over the top slug prevention measures. A
> pair of fine mesh foot-high wire mesh waste paper baskets encircling
> each , cut vertically and wired back in place so easy to remove if
> required next year, chopped dried bramble stems and broken egg shell on
> the soil inside the baskets . When the odd leaf, all very healthy
> currently , has grown enough to touch the ground then a large square of
> wet and dry "sandpaper " anti-slug side up, under the leaf tip.

Well done on persevering against one of the most annoying garden pests.
It was probably the wire mesh baskets which did the job. Other stuff put
on the ground around the plants is usually pointless. See here:
<https://www.slughelp.com/mulch-to-deter-slugs-and-snails-tested/>. NB
snails need calcium for their shells, so might actually be attracted to
eggshells! And as slugs are "snails of NFA", why would they be dissuaded
from crawling over eggshells? I assume you're into organic gardening to
avoid the use of slug pellets, even though ferric phosphate is
considered ok to use. I find it reasonable successful, though not foolproof.

I would cut off any leaf to stop it touching the ground, and being a
launching platform for slugs to reach the main stem.

I think the drought in the south and east has done much this year to
protect plants against slug damage; I haven't seen a slug for months.

As to keeping seedlings going, I think that ventilation is key. I used
to have a lot of trouble with botrytis in the greenhouse, not just on
seedlings, but on many plants, but haven't had any for years. The reason
is that I had a small oscillating fan going 24/365. I reckon it was
enough to stop fungal spores settling. The cost in electricity was about
£35 a year, but now it's just about doubled (fan rated at 20W). You may
find that keeping a small computer cooling fan going on the seedlings
for a couple of months will help them get past the "damping off" stage.

--

Jeff

On Tue, 04 Oct 2022 16:41:50 +0100, N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:

>aka Viper's Bugloss, weeds of likes of Brazil and Canary Isles but the
>18 foot Echium Pinanana vriety grow wild in Ventnor/Steephill of south
>Isle of Wight and 15 foot or so ones in gardens of south Hampshire.
>I admire the way they look as though they were made by an alien
>mathematician, precisely graduated and disported leaves and flowers and
>monster height, but at the same time always look drunk, flailing about.
>I've been allowed to lay a sheet on the ground, rattle the stalk of
>seed-set spikes in a few gardens , so have hundreds of seeds to play with.
>Viability sowings late this summer seem to be about 1 in 4. The
>successful ones I potted-on at about the second or third true hairy leaf
>stage.
>But after a few days the healthy green fades to grey green, shrivel and
>die.
>Adding Cheshunt compound to the watering makes no difference, being very
>sparing on watering to drooping leaves before watering, makes no
>difference. Wrong time of year? or any other advice?
>I'm determined to get one plant at least to flowering stage.
>The first year , a plant from Ventnor botanic gardens , got thru the
>winter frosts with a bit of protection,no trouble, grew a handsome leaf
>stem, about 1.5 inches diameter and keeled over in the next spring, I
>assumed a frost had got to it. The next year a kindly gardener gave me a
>plant, again got through the winter frosts and then in growth spurt
>keeled over. This time I took a closer look and slugs had "ring-barked"
>the stem , so perhaps the same as the prevous year. Such fearsome
>hairs/spines to humans , I'd have thought slugs would be deterred , but
>no. This year attempt , currently very healthy looking plants with no
>slug damage at all , because of over the top slug prevention measures. A
>pair of fine mesh foot-high wire mesh waste paper baskets encircling
>each , cut vertically and wired back in place so easy to remove if
>required next year, chopped dried bramble stems and broken egg shell on
>the soil inside the baskets . When the odd leaf, all very healthy
>currently , has grown enough to touch the ground then a large square of
>wet and dry "sandpaper " anti-slug side up, under the leaf tip.

They grow like weeds on Tresco (which will be of no comfort to you)!

I'll second Jeff on using the modern phosphate-based S&S killer;
apparently much kinder to other wildlife than the old metaldehyde-base
stuff. I don't think you can get that old stuff any more, anyway.

If you prefer to avoid any sort of chemicals, have you tried copper
wire or tape. Never tried it myself, but people seem to have success
with it. https://tinyurl.com/2fb3zhth and https://tinyurl.com/2fb3zhth

--
Chris

Gardening in West Cornwall, very mild, sheltered
from the West, but open to the North and East.

On 04/10/2022 19:07, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 04/10/2022 16:41, N_Cook wrote:
>> aka Viper's Bugloss, weeds of likes of Brazil and Canary Isles but the
>> 18 foot Echium Pinanana vriety grow wild in Ventnor/Steephill of south
>> Isle of Wight and 15 foot or so ones in gardens of south Hampshire.
>> I admire the way they look as though they were made by an alien
>> mathematician, precisely graduated and disported leaves and flowers and
>> monster height, but at the same time always look drunk, flailing about.
>> I've been allowed to lay a sheet on the ground, rattle the stalk of
>> seed-set spikes in a few gardens , so have hundreds of seeds to play
>> with.
>> Viability sowings late this summer seem to be about 1 in 4. The
>> successful ones I potted-on at about the second or third true hairy leaf
>> stage.
>> But after a few days the healthy green fades to grey green, shrivel and
>> die.
>> Adding Cheshunt compound to the watering makes no difference, being very
>> sparing on watering to drooping leaves before watering, makes no
>> difference. Wrong time of year? or any other advice?
>> I'm determined to get one plant at least to flowering stage.
>> The first year , a plant from Ventnor botanic gardens , got thru the
>> winter frosts with a bit of protection,no trouble, grew a handsome leaf
>> stem, about 1.5 inches diameter and keeled over in the next spring, I
>> assumed a frost had got to it. The next year a kindly gardener gave me a
>> plant, again got through the winter frosts and then in growth spurt
>> keeled over. This time I took a closer look and slugs had "ring-barked"
>> the stem , so perhaps the same as the prevous year. Such fearsome
>> hairs/spines to humans , I'd have thought slugs would be deterred , but
>> no. This year attempt , currently very healthy looking plants with no
>> slug damage at all , because of over the top slug prevention measures. A
>> pair of fine mesh foot-high wire mesh waste paper baskets encircling
>> each , cut vertically and wired back in place so easy to remove if
>> required next year, chopped dried bramble stems and broken egg shell on
>> the soil inside the baskets . When the odd leaf, all very healthy
>> currently , has grown enough to touch the ground then a large square of
>> wet and dry "sandpaper " anti-slug side up, under the leaf tip.
>
> Well done on persevering against one of the most annoying garden pests.
> It was probably the wire mesh baskets which did the job. Other stuff put
> on the ground around the plants is usually pointless. See here:
> <https://www.slughelp.com/mulch-to-deter-slugs-and-snails-tested/>. NB
> snails need calcium for their shells, so might actually be attracted to
> eggshells! And as slugs are "snails of NFA", why would they be dissuaded
> from crawling over eggshells? I assume you're into organic gardening to
> avoid the use of slug pellets, even though ferric phosphate is
> considered ok to use. I find it reasonable successful, though not
> foolproof.
>
> I would cut off any leaf to stop it touching the ground, and being a
> launching platform for slugs to reach the main stem.
>
> I think the drought in the south and east has done much this year to
> protect plants against slug damage; I haven't seen a slug for months.
>
> As to keeping seedlings going, I think that ventilation is key. I used
> to have a lot of trouble with botrytis in the greenhouse, not just on
> seedlings, but on many plants, but haven't had any for years. The reason
> is that I had a small oscillating fan going 24/365. I reckon it was
> enough to stop fungal spores settling. The cost in electricity was about
> £35 a year, but now it's just about doubled (fan rated at 20W). You may
> find that keeping a small computer cooling fan going on the seedlings
> for a couple of months will help them get past the "damping off" stage.
>

I'll try a small 12V fan run on say 9V, for low flow rate, the next time.

--
Global sea level rise to 2100 from curve-fitted existing altimetry data
<http://diverse.4mg.com/slr.htm>

On 04/10/2022 19:44, Chris Hogg wrote:
> On Tue, 04 Oct 2022 16:41:50 +0100, N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> aka Viper's Bugloss, weeds of likes of Brazil and Canary Isles but the
>> 18 foot Echium Pinanana vriety grow wild in Ventnor/Steephill of south
>> Isle of Wight and 15 foot or so ones in gardens of south Hampshire.
>> I admire the way they look as though they were made by an alien
>> mathematician, precisely graduated and disported leaves and flowers and
>> monster height, but at the same time always look drunk, flailing about.
>> I've been allowed to lay a sheet on the ground, rattle the stalk of
>> seed-set spikes in a few gardens , so have hundreds of seeds to play with.
>> Viability sowings late this summer seem to be about 1 in 4. The
>> successful ones I potted-on at about the second or third true hairy leaf
>> stage.
>> But after a few days the healthy green fades to grey green, shrivel and
>> die.
>> Adding Cheshunt compound to the watering makes no difference, being very
>> sparing on watering to drooping leaves before watering, makes no
>> difference. Wrong time of year? or any other advice?
>> I'm determined to get one plant at least to flowering stage.
>> The first year , a plant from Ventnor botanic gardens , got thru the
>> winter frosts with a bit of protection,no trouble, grew a handsome leaf
>> stem, about 1.5 inches diameter and keeled over in the next spring, I
>> assumed a frost had got to it. The next year a kindly gardener gave me a
>> plant, again got through the winter frosts and then in growth spurt
>> keeled over. This time I took a closer look and slugs had "ring-barked"
>> the stem , so perhaps the same as the prevous year. Such fearsome
>> hairs/spines to humans , I'd have thought slugs would be deterred , but
>> no. This year attempt , currently very healthy looking plants with no
>> slug damage at all , because of over the top slug prevention measures. A
>> pair of fine mesh foot-high wire mesh waste paper baskets encircling
>> each , cut vertically and wired back in place so easy to remove if
>> required next year, chopped dried bramble stems and broken egg shell on
>> the soil inside the baskets . When the odd leaf, all very healthy
>> currently , has grown enough to touch the ground then a large square of
>> wet and dry "sandpaper " anti-slug side up, under the leaf tip.
>
> They grow like weeds on Tresco (which will be of no comfort to you)!
>
> I'll second Jeff on using the modern phosphate-based S&S killer;
> apparently much kinder to other wildlife than the old metaldehyde-base
> stuff. I don't think you can get that old stuff any more, anyway.
>
> If you prefer to avoid any sort of chemicals, have you tried copper
> wire or tape. Never tried it myself, but people seem to have success
> with it. https://tinyurl.com/2fb3zhth and https://tinyurl.com/2fb3zhth
>

Copper wire and Cu tape was what I was going to try on launching them
into slug space in the garden. Lidl had packs of copper wire mesh as
slug defense for 5 or 6 squid, seemed like quite a weight of copper. It
is woven as sock/stocking weave so a tube of interlocking loops of mesh,
perhaps surplus from some massive co-ax cable making process.
Along the way I discovered that traditional scouring pads are made of a
similar material but ribbons of steel rather than round Cu wire, folded
in onto itself to form pads.
The other such defence , all not tried yet, will be bandoliers of
bramble stem. Laying 4 inch cut lengths of bramble on a surface, close
to each other, wide enough for a final circumference of 2 inch diameter
snipping off any upwards pointing thorns. Then running got melt glue
"string" straight from the gun in a few runs joining them all into a
bandolier. Then wrap around the young echium stems ,glue strips on the
inside,
and hold in place , loosely, by a few turns of copper wire , but the
ends not twisted or tied together, to let the bndolier unfurl with growth

I remembered another wild site of echiums is next to the railway
embankment near Cosham/Hilsea in the north of Portsmouth on some
derelict land or overgrown/fenced off disused pedestrian house access path

--
Global sea level rise to 2100 from curve-fitted existing altimetry data
<http://diverse.4mg.com/slr.htm>

On 04/10/2022 19:07, Jeff Layman wrote:
> I would cut off any leaf to stop it touching the ground, and being a
> launching platform for slugs to reach the main stem.

I couldn't be so cruel. I decided to extend the tops of the wire
baskets. A near horizontal crinolin of that black mesh plastic used to
stop starlings clog dancing at 4 in the morning in roof guttering, wired
the joined segment ends together and inner circle edge wired to the
top of the basket.

--
Global sea level rise to 2100 from curve-fitted existing altimetry data
<http://diverse.4mg.com/slr.htm>

On 10/09/2023 10:57, N_Cook wrote:
> On 08/09/2023 08:55, N_Cook wrote:
>> I'll try putting some seeds in the nonfreezing section of the fridge ,
>> to see if they need a rest/cool period , for proper germination.
>
> Apparently this is termed,
> cold stratification
> ,I'll try the simple dry version for a week.
> Those 2 lone this season germinations are looking more and more unhealthy
>

I tried 45 of this years seed in the fridge at 12 deg C for a week,then
sowing but only one seed germinated.
Perhaps it is just an age thing , simply store the seed in paper bags
for 6 months, as I doubt the winter temperature minimum of Madeira and
the Azores is much less than 12 deg C.
The two earlier this-year germinations have grown on normally.
Some recent Bournemouth spied echium pininana sites
Between Harry Ramsdens and the pier,
the garden of Russell Cotes gallery,
SE part of the central gardens around the "Picnic" concession,
seaward facing garden of Grand Marine Court, Durley Gardens.

--
Global sea level rise to 2100 from curve-fitted existing altimetry data
<http://diverse.4mg.com/slr.htm>

I was aware that IoW giant echiums started flowering in May, but it
looks as though they start their flower spike as early as mid Jan.
This is my oldest surviving one, 2 years from seed in March this year,
curved already, pic taken today. Hundreds of pics of charmingly wonky
full flower spikes on Google but none of their very early stage, that I
could find.

http://diverse.4mg.com/echium_flower_15jan24r.jpg

Hope its not tempting fate, they've all survived the frosts so far with
gauze protection on frosty nights.
The ones left to their own devices, buried in amongst brambles etc, if
they were large enough by the end of their first summer, seem to have
survived so far.

--
Global sea level rise to 2100 from curve-fitted existing altimetry data
<http://diverse.4mg.com/slr.htm>