Laugh? I almost did.
=======================A “pioneering” new CYCLOPS junction designed to protect people cycling and walking has come in for criticism from locals, who claim that there was “nothing wrong” with the original roundabout and that the lengthy construction work is leaving their homes “permanently covered in dirt and dust”.

In November last year, work began on the installation of a new Cycle Optimised Protected Signals (CYCLOPS) junction in St Helens, Merseyside. The junction, the first of its kind in the Liverpool City Region, has become increasingly popular in several parts of the UK since it was first introduced in Manchester in 2020, and aims to protect pedestrians and cyclists by separating them from motor traffic and reducing crossing distances, while also cutting journey times for motorists.

St Helens’ CYCLOPS, located close to a number of schools and cycle routes, forms part of the St Helens Southern Gateway scheme (link is external), a partnership between the local borough council, the Liverpool City Region Combined Authority, and Northern Rail to help make sustainable travel an easier choice for commuters who use Lea Green Railway Station, one of the area’s busiest stations. The junction is set to open early next month.

However, the ten months of work on the project have angered some locals, who are fiercely critical of the disruption caused by the construction and its accompanying road closures, which they claim have left their homes and businesses “inaccessible” and covered in dirt.

“I’ve got desperate now for all this work to end,” Tony Forshaw, a long-time carer for wheelchair-user Sean who lives next to the forthcoming CYCLOPS junction, told the St Helens Star (link is external), “Because not only has it destroyed the view from our house, but with all the greenery of the former roundabout now being gone, it’s caused loads of muck.

“When all of this started, we were told other than partial road closures we wouldn’t be affected. However, we now have dirt blowing into the house and all over the car – it’s all permanently covered in dirt and dust. I’ve had to have the car valeted twice now because it’s driving me mad.”

He continued: “They have closed all access to our houses, so we’ve got to do sometimes scary manoeuvres to get in and out to park. And poor Sean can’t go out with the nurses and has to struggle to walk halfway down Chester Lane to their car.

“The workmen are helpful, and I know they have a job to do, but I’m so annoyed at the council causing so much upheaval to transform a roundabout that had nothing wrong with it.

“The noise is ridiculous, so that and the dirt mean I can’t open Sean’s window at night, which isn’t fair to him.

“We’ve seen some near misses as no one knows how to use it and all the greenery has gone, leaving us with bright lines on tarmac instead.

“I know it’s meant to be for cyclists and pedestrians, but it’s mostly used by cars, and it’s just been made difficult, constantly loud with traffic, and an eyesore for residents.”

Meanwhile, Mike Fishwick and Sara Cunningham, who own the Bull and Dog pub located beside the new junction, said they have been living in “an absolute nightmare” due to the disruption caused by the project, with local MP Marie Rimmer yesterday agreeing that it is “a real shame” (link is external) that the roadworks are having an impact on local businesses.

“I would hope that the roadworks could be brought to a conclusion as soon as possible to help local residents and vital businesses like the Bull and Dog pub get back to normal,” the Labour MP said.

Responding to the issues raised by Mr Forshaw, a spokesperson for St Helens Borough Council said: “Due to its location on the road network and closeness to homes, businesses and schools, as well as Lea Green Railway Station, the CYCLOPS junction has been a challenging project to deliver but one we have been determined to carry out with due consideration for everyone in the neighbouring area.

“Unfortunately, projects of this scale and complexity are difficult on the ground, but we’re assured that our contractors have made every effort to reduce noise and dust impact on nearby homes. Throughout the works we’ve maintained open lines of communication to ensure that residents, businesses, and general motorists and others, are notified of key project milestones and have the opportunity to raise any concerns and queries.

“We apologise to local residents for any inconvenience they may have faced during the construction works and thank them for their cooperation during this time.

“We are pleased to say that work is coming to an end, with a completion date of Monday, September 4 set, subject to weather conditions, which will significantly enhance the safety of pedestrians and cyclists, resulting in smoother journeys for all road users.”

https://road.cc/content/news/cycling-junction-works-leaving-homes-covered-dirt-303411

QUOTE: “I know it’s meant to be for cyclists and pedestrians, but it’s mostly used by cars, and it’s just been made difficult, constantly loud with traffic, and an eyesore for residents.” ENDS

WHY DON'T YOU BLAME THESE IDIOT DRIVERS THEN?

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:

> QUOTE: “I know it’s meant to be for cyclists and pedestrians, but it’s
> mostly used by cars, and it’s just been made difficult, constantly loud
> with traffic, and an eyesore for residents.” ENDS

> WHY DON'T YOU BLAME THESE IDIOT DRIVERS THEN?

Drivers are not being blamed because they are not the cause of this
expensive exercise in virtue signalling.

--
Spike

On 23/08/2023 01:30 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> Laugh? I almost did.
> ========================
> A “pioneering” new CYCLOPS junction designed to protect people cycling and walking has come in for criticism from locals, who claim that there was “nothing wrong” with the original roundabout and that the lengthy construction work is leaving their homes “permanently covered in dirt and dust”.
>
> In November last year, work began on the installation of a new Cycle Optimised Protected Signals (CYCLOPS) junction in St Helens, Merseyside. The junction, the first of its kind in the Liverpool City Region, has become increasingly popular in several parts of the UK since it was first introduced in Manchester in 2020, and aims to protect pedestrians and cyclists by separating them from motor traffic and reducing crossing distances, while also cutting journey times for motorists.
>
> St Helens’ CYCLOPS, located close to a number of schools and cycle routes, forms part of the St Helens Southern Gateway scheme (link is external), a partnership between the local borough council, the Liverpool City Region Combined Authority, and Northern Rail to help make sustainable travel an easier choice for commuters who use Lea Green Railway Station, one of the area’s busiest stations. The junction is set to open early next month.
>
> However, the ten months of work on the project have angered some locals, who are fiercely critical of the disruption caused by the construction and its accompanying road closures, which they claim have left their homes and businesses “inaccessible” and covered in dirt.
>
> “I’ve got desperate now for all this work to end,” Tony Forshaw, a long-time carer for wheelchair-user Sean who lives next to the forthcoming CYCLOPS junction, told the St Helens Star (link is external), “Because not only has it destroyed the view from our house, but with all the greenery of the former roundabout now being gone, it’s caused loads of muck.
>
> “When all of this started, we were told other than partial road closures we wouldn’t be affected. However, we now have dirt blowing into the house and all over the car – it’s all permanently covered in dirt and dust. I’ve had to have the car valeted twice now because it’s driving me mad.”
>
> He continued: “They have closed all access to our houses, so we’ve got to do sometimes scary manoeuvres to get in and out to park. And poor Sean can’t go out with the nurses and has to struggle to walk halfway down Chester Lane to their car.
>
> “The workmen are helpful, and I know they have a job to do, but I’m so annoyed at the council causing so much upheaval to transform a roundabout that had nothing wrong with it.
>
> “The noise is ridiculous, so that and the dirt mean I can’t open Sean’s window at night, which isn’t fair to him.
>
> “We’ve seen some near misses as no one knows how to use it and all the greenery has gone, leaving us with bright lines on tarmac instead.
>
> “I know it’s meant to be for cyclists and pedestrians, but it’s mostly used by cars, and it’s just been made difficult, constantly loud with traffic, and an eyesore for residents.”
>
> Meanwhile, Mike Fishwick and Sara Cunningham, who own the Bull and Dog pub located beside the new junction, said they have been living in “an absolute nightmare” due to the disruption caused by the project, with local MP Marie Rimmer yesterday agreeing that it is “a real shame” (link is external) that the roadworks are having an impact on local businesses.
>
> “I would hope that the roadworks could be brought to a conclusion as soon as possible to help local residents and vital businesses like the Bull and Dog pub get back to normal,” the Labour MP said.
>
> Responding to the issues raised by Mr Forshaw, a spokesperson for St Helens Borough Council said: “Due to its location on the road network and closeness to homes, businesses and schools, as well as Lea Green Railway Station, the CYCLOPS junction has been a challenging project to deliver but one we have been determined to carry out with due consideration for everyone in the neighbouring area.
>
> “Unfortunately, projects of this scale and complexity are difficult on the ground, but we’re assured that our contractors have made every effort to reduce noise and dust impact on nearby homes. Throughout the works we’ve maintained open lines of communication to ensure that residents, businesses, and general motorists and others, are notified of key project milestones and have the opportunity to raise any concerns and queries.
>
> “We apologise to local residents for any inconvenience they may have faced during the construction works and thank them for their cooperation during this time.
>
> “We are pleased to say that work is coming to an end, with a completion date of Monday, September 4 set, subject to weather conditions, which will significantly enhance the safety of pedestrians and cyclists, resulting in smoother journeys for all road users.”
>
> https://road.cc/content/news/cycling-junction-works-leaving-homes-covered-dirt-303411

The only correct name for that junction is "Marshall's Cross".

Fancy the totally ignorant and almost-illiterate road.cc not knowing that.

The junction lends its name to the immediate area and even to the
telephone exchange for the southern half of St Helens.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the junction, which worked well,
engendered no queues and has operated satisfactorily for at least sixty
years. No wonder the loonies of local govenment felt the need to intervene.

On 23/08/2023 01:50 pm, Spike wrote:

> swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:

>> QUOTE: “I know it’s meant to be for cyclists and pedestrians, but it’s
>> mostly used by cars, and it’s just been made difficult, constantly loud
>> with traffic, and an eyesore for residents.” ENDS

"...meant for cyclists and pedestrians..."?

Eh?

This is the intersection of the A569, the B5419 (ie, the former A570),
the B5204 and B5204. It is the main southerly approach to St Helens (and
especially to the town's main hospital and A&E department as well as to
local industrial and trading areas).

How could it possibly NOT be used by the drivers of cars, vans, lorries,
motorcycles, buses and coaches?

>> WHY DON'T YOU BLAME THESE IDIOT DRIVERS THEN?
>
> Drivers are not being blamed because they are not the cause of this
> expensive exercise in virtue signalling.

I used to live about a mile from the Marshall's Cross roundabout (the
actual name of the junction) and used it for every journey in and out of
the town centre. I confirm that there was absolutely nothing wrong with
it beforehand.

That, I suppose, was the problem. Junctions that work well are anathema
to the loonies and to the chavs on chav-bikes.

JNugent <jnugent@mail.com> wrote:
> On 23/08/2023 01:50 pm, Spike wrote:
>
>> swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> QUOTE: “I know it’s meant to be for cyclists and pedestrians, but it’s
>>> mostly used by cars, and it’s just been made difficult, constantly loud
>>> with traffic, and an eyesore for residents.” ENDS
>
> "...meant for cyclists and pedestrians..."?
>
> Eh?
>
> This is the intersection of the A569, the B5419 (ie, the former A570),
> the B5204 and B5204. It is the main southerly approach to St Helens (and
> especially to the town's main hospital and A&E department as well as to
> local industrial and trading areas).
>
> How could it possibly NOT be used by the drivers of cars, vans, lorries,
> motorcycles, buses and coaches?
>
>>> WHY DON'T YOU BLAME THESE IDIOT DRIVERS THEN?
>>
>> Drivers are not being blamed because they are not the cause of this
>> expensive exercise in virtue signalling.
>
> I used to live about a mile from the Marshall's Cross roundabout (the
> actual name of the junction) and used it for every journey in and out of
> the town centre. I confirm that there was absolutely nothing wrong with
> it beforehand.
>
> That, I suppose, was the problem. Junctions that work well are anathema
> to the loonies and to the chavs on chav-bikes.

Sounds like a typical psycholist approach: take something that works well,
and ruin it in the name of walking and cycling safety; by which they mean
their perception of cycle safety as it’s obvious they don’t care about
anyone but themselves.

--
Spike

mrchrispy | 525 posts | 2 hours ago
4 likes

"I've had to wash my car"

ffs. cry me a freaking river.

.
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:9d0:b0:64a:683a:2b76 with SMTP id dp16-20020a05621409d000b0064a683a2b76mr163915qvb.7.1692804071515;
Wed, 23 Aug 2023 08:21:11 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:eccc:b0:1b8:a555:385d with SMTP id
a12-20020a170902eccc00b001b8a555385dmr5832948plh.9.1692804071033; Wed, 23 Aug
2023 08:21:11 -0700 (PDT)
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2023 08:21:10 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <07c41135-e20f-4162-a0a3-19596f742092n@googlegroups.com>
Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=46.208.147.184; posting-account=C0YVfQoAAABh4p4NE_bEvMV8znsP81Ld
NNTP-Posting-Host: 46.208.147.184
References: <07c41135-e20f-4162-a0a3-19596f742092n@googlegroups.com>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <75864756-45b5-4270-ba7a-e311c136000cn@googlegroups.com>
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=E2=80=9CEyesore=E2=80=9D_cycling_junction_works_leaving_hom?=
=?UTF-8?Q?es_and_cars_=E2=80=9Cpermanently_covered_in_dirt_and_dust=E2=80=9D=2C_clai?=
=?UTF-8?Q?m_residents?=
From: "swldx...@gmail.com" <swldxer1958@gmail.com>
Injection-Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2023 15:21:11 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
X-Received-Bytes: 1406
Xref: rslight uk.rec.cycling:32413

mrchrispy | 525 posts | 2 hours ago
4 likes

"I've had to wash my car"

ffs. cry me a freaking river.

On 23/08/2023 04:21 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> mrchrispy | 525 posts | 2 hours ago
> 4 likes

> "I've had to wash my car"

> ffs. cry me a freaking river.

Can the same idiot who wrote that unsympathetic attempt at a riposte
really be the same May Sun loony who otherwise rails against "pollution"?

Perhaps he "thinks" [I know, I know...] that pollution of people's homes
and property isn't important.

...it destroyed the view from our house, but with all the greenery of the former roundabout now being gone, ...

I mean, a roundabout - where I go to rest my eyes?
(g)

brooksby | 12051 posts | 2 hours ago
5 likes

All I can take from this is that it's creating the same sort of inconvenience and mess as any other major roadworks scheme but that the locals don't like cyclists...

SPOT ON - NIMBYS GONNA MOAN.

JNugent <jnugent@mail.com> wrote:
> On 23/08/2023 04:21 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> mrchrispy | 525 posts | 2 hours ago
>> 4 likes
>
>> "I've had to wash my car"
>
>> ffs. cry me a freaking river.
>
> Can the same idiot who wrote that unsympathetic attempt at a riposte
> really be the same May Sun loony who otherwise rails against "pollution"?
>
> Perhaps he "thinks" [I know, I know...] that pollution of people's homes
> and property isn't important.

Mason gives me the impression he could be a pettifogging martinet of a
minor official in George Orwell’s ‘1984’, as his capability for doublethink
seems endless.

--
Spike

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...it destroyed the view from our house, but with all the greenery of
> the former roundabout now being gone, ...
>
> I mean, a roundabout - where I go to rest my eyes?
> (g)

‘A disgrace’: more than 100 trees cut down in Plymouth despite local
opposition

Scores of trees destroyed in hours on Tuesday despite petition signed by
16,000 people

More than 100 mature trees have been cut down in the centre of Plymouth in
a move campaigners said was reminiscent of the needless felling of
thousands of trees in Sheffield.

Despite widespread opposition from local people, the Conservative council
in the Devon city cordoned off the trees with metal fencing, sent in
security guards and in the cover of darkness on Tuesday night, destroyed
more than 100 with chainsaws over a few hours.

The move came within days of a highly critical report on the needless
destruction of trees by Sheffield city council – known as the “chainsaw
massacre”. An inquiry report found the council was guilty of “a serious and
sustained failure of strategic leadership”.

Some 16,000 people in Plymouth had signed a petition to save the mature
trees, which line a walkway from the sea to the city and the council agreed
in February to community engagement. But within hours of that ending, on
Tuesday night the chainsaws moved in and within hours more than 100 trees
were felled.

At 1am the local campaign to save the trees, Straw, obtained an injunction
that halted the felling and saved 15 trees. They vow to continue their
fight.

“We wrote to the city council and pointed out the parallels between what
was going on here and Sheffield,” said Alison White, of Straw. “But they
said it was not a comparable situation. How is it not comparable? They have
needlessly chopped down healthy mature trees. The people of Plymouth could
not have made their views clearer that they were against this. It is a
disgrace.”

Luke Pollard, the Labour MP for Plymouth Sutton and Devonport, said: “It’s
a scene of environmental devastation and utter council vandalism. I’m
appalled at the actions of the Tory council. They have not listened to
local people.”

<https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/mar/15/a-disgrace-more-than-100-trees-cut-down-in-plymouth-despite-local-opposition>

--
Spike

LeadenSkies | 126 posts | 35 min ago
3 likes

I don't overly like having to clear up all the litter, discarded nitrous oxide canisters, food wrappers and worst of all bottles of bodily waste from the front of my house and 99.99% of that is thrown out by car drivers. Simarly, 90% of local background noise comes from passing traffic. It amazes me how some people get so used to the big issues caused by cars and their drivers that they totally ignore them and pick on something else to blame rather than the elephant in the room.

On 23/08/2023 05:36 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> LeadenSkies | 126 posts | 35 min ago
> 3 likes
>
> I don't overly like having to clear up all the litter, discarded nitrous oxide canisters, food wrappers and worst of all bottles of bodily waste from the front of my house and 99.99% of that is thrown out by car drivers. Simarly, 90% of local background noise comes from passing traffic. It amazes me how some people get so used to the big issues caused by cars and their drivers that they totally ignore them and pick on something else to blame rather than the elephant in the room.

You are talking of somewhere other than Marshall's Cross.

Probably 'Ull or environs.

eburtthebike replied to brooksby | 4558 posts | 16 hours ago
2 likes

I was going to say the same thing, you rarely read about the complaints of other road works, just the ones for cyclists.

It's possibly not even that, "here's something that does not directly benefit me, therefore it's bad and I will complain about it"

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> eburtthebike replied to brooksby | 4558 posts | 16 hours ago
> 2 likes

> I was going to say the same thing, you rarely read about the complaints
> of other road works, just the ones for cyclists.

> It's possibly not even that, "here's something that does not directly
> benefit me, therefore it's bad and I will complain about it"

Spoken like a true (self-centred) cyclist.

--
Spike

On 24/08/2023 01:51 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> Avatar
> Peowpeowpeowlasers | 715 posts | 3 hours ago
> 3 likes
>
> "There was nothing wrong with the roundabout" is the usual cry of motorists whose only interaction is to drive around it.
>
> Try walking across this as a pedestrian. Try being blind and walking across it.

You aren't supposed to walk across a roundabout any more than you're
supposed to drive a van across it or ride a chav-bike across it.

All road users go around a roundabout, hence the name.
>
> SEE: https://goo.gl/maps/B4ebSrk3mtwHXhWY8
>

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> Avatar
> Peowpeowpeowlasers | 715 posts | 3 hours ago
> 3 likes
>
> "There was nothing wrong with the roundabout" is the usual cry of
> motorists whose only interaction is to drive around it.
>
> Try walking across this as a pedestrian. Try being blind and walking across it.
>
> SEE: https://goo.gl/maps/B4ebSrk3mtwHXhWY8

Try walking along the footway on the north side of Nursery Road,
Huntington, if you have mobility issues, eyesight issues, or social issues.

--
Spike

QUOTE: Look at the size of that roundabout! Could it be - as it was "before" - it was build for maximising motor vehicle speed and capacity and took no note of the impact on local properties, businesses or the safety and convenience of pedestrians and cyclists? ENDS

IT WOULD SEEM SO - JUST LOOK AT THE STATE OF IT.

https://cdn.road.cc/sites/default/files/styles/main_width/public/st-helens-cyclops-junction-roadworks-mike-fishwick.jpg

On 24/08/2023 04:13 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> QUOTE: Look at the size of that roundabout! Could it be - as it was "before" - it was build [sic - JN] for maximising motor vehicle speed and capacity and took no note of the impact on local properties,

What "local properties"?

No residences front onto the roundabout.

> businesses or the safety and convenience of pedestrians and cyclists? ENDS

I lived near there for five years. I never once heard of any complaint
from pedestrians (in fact, the situation will not be improved for
pedestrians, whose desire-lines were well catered for).

> IT WOULD SEEM SO - JUST LOOK AT THE STATE OF IT.

The (current) state of it is exactly what nearby residents are
complaining about. Yesterday, you were criticising them for that. Now
you are taking up the cudgels on their behalf.
>
> https://cdn.road.cc/sites/default/files/styles/main_width/public/st-helens-cyclops-junction-roadworks-mike-fishwick.jpg

The Marshall's Cross roundabout was built as the junction where the St
Helens to Warrington road (A570) de-merged from the St Helens to Widnes
road (A569).

Those routes were there a VERY LONG time before any of the nearby
post-war housing estates were built. There are a few terraced houses on
the west side of Chester Lane (guess why it's called that?), south of
the roundabout, including one long-standing and spectacular conversion
of three of the cottages into one ("Chester Cottage", well-known in the
area). The terraced properties directly front Chester Lane and always
had adequate kerbside parking.

Only idiots like May Sun could suppose that there was anything wrong
with the area beforehand. There wasn't.

On 24/08/2023 05:35 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> Memories are indeed short, not least drivers'. Here's how the area used to look - the area south-east of the pub was cleared to build the roundabout now of blessed memory.
>
> https://road.cc/sites/default/files/styles/main_width/public/IMG_4924.jpeg

The locality has not looked like that for more than FIFTY years to my
certain knowledge. Marshall's Cross Road is a dual carriageway.

There was a colliery - Sutton Manor - abut 900 yards south of the
junction. Collieries place great demands on local transport infrastructure.

But you didn't even know it was there.

On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 4:21:12 PM UTC+1, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> mrchrispy | 525 posts | 2 hours ago
> 4 likes
>
> "I've had to wash my car"
>
> ffs. cry me a freaking river.

David9694 replied to mrchrispy | 2940 posts | 1 day ago
1 like

Correction - "I've had to pay someone to do it" (valet is to wash as lavatory is to toilet?)

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> QUOTE: Look at the size of that roundabout! Could it be - as it was
> "before" - it was build for maximising motor vehicle speed and capacity
> and took no note of the impact on local properties, businesses or the
> safety and convenience of pedestrians and cyclists? ENDS
>
> IT WOULD SEEM SO - JUST LOOK AT THE STATE OF IT.
>
> https://cdn.road.cc/sites/default/files/styles/main_width/public/st-helens-cyclops-junction-roadworks-mike-fishwick.jpg

What are we supposed to be disgusted about?

--
Spike

QUOTE: “The noise is ridiculous, so that and the dirt mean I can’t open Sean’s window at night, which isn’t fair to him. ENDS

That's like me moaning about the sound of cattle, donkeys, tractors, roosters and pigs and the smell of farming.

On 24/08/2023 07:42 pm, Spike wrote:
> swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
>> QUOTE: Look at the size of that roundabout! Could it be - as it was
>> "before" - it was build for maximising motor vehicle speed and capacity
>> and took no note of the impact on local properties, businesses or the
>> safety and convenience of pedestrians and cyclists? ENDS
>>
>> IT WOULD SEEM SO - JUST LOOK AT THE STATE OF IT.
>>
>> https://cdn.road.cc/sites/default/files/styles/main_width/public/st-helens-cyclops-junction-roadworks-mike-fishwick.jpg
>
> What are we supposed to be disgusted about?
>

Don't ask difficult questions!