You might have seen the topic of cyclists and speed limits is back in the news this week. That's after a group ride in Dartmoor was stopped by the police for descending at 39mph into a village with a 30mph speed limit. But what does the law say about speed limits for cyclists? Can you be fined? Do you have to stick to them?

Devon and Cornwall's Roads Policing Team explained to road.cc how they "offered appropriate words of advice" to the cyclists they saw riding above the 30mph limit, but crucially, "legislation does not require cyclists to adhere to the speed limit". That's the crux of the matter — cyclists do not share the same legal obligation as motorists to stick to speed limits in the United Kingdom.

Rule 124 of the Highway Code (link is external) outlines a table for vehicles' maximum legal speed on different roads, from built-up areas through to motorways, but does not mention cyclists. Furthermore, while the 1984 Road Traffic Regulation Act (link is external) outlines the law regarding speed limits, again cyclists are not mentioned.

Now-retired traffic police officer and recent road.cc Podcast guest Mark Hodson, who pioneered close pass operations with West Midlands Police, told us: "It's common knowledge that speed limits only apply to motor vehicles so the offence of 'excess speed' where a cyclist is concerned simply can't happen.

"You could commit the offences of 'cycling without due care' or 'wanton and furious cycling' but you would have to hit a high threshold of possible endangerment that would normally only occur in shared spaces where other vulnerable road users are present.

"It really does baffle me as someone who has spent the best years of my life trying to reduce road danger and demand at source as to why some people, and officers, get so entangled in cyclist behaviours.

"After all, evidentially it's obvious that to do so is a waste of time and resources, and anyone with even a bit of intelligence realises that the inherent sense of vulnerability that accompanies cycling prevents many of the endangering behaviours we see exhibited by drivers.

"If they are exhibited by cyclists, the relative amounts of kinetic energy involved and the tiny impact they currently induce on society means that to even concern oneself with them in a climate of increasing driver-induced demand and reduced resources is simply somewhere between incompetent and foolish."

But what about bylaws?

The only exception is where a local bylaw has been enforced. These will be away from public roads, often in areas such as parks or seafront promenades..

For example, Hampstead Heath in north west London has a bylaw in place stating that: "No person shall in any open space drive any vehicle, bicycle or tricycle or ride any animal at a rate exceeding twelve miles an hour or so as to endanger the public."

Breaching a bylaw can result in an on-the-spot fine.

Where do cyclists have to adhere to speed limits?

While the United Kingdom shares its stance that speed limits do not apply to cyclists with one of the world's most cycling-friendly nations, the Netherlands, there are plenty of destinations around the world where you will be expected to stick to the same speed limit that motorists are obliged to follow, such as in Spain.

In Australia and the United States too cyclists must follow the same rules of the road as motorists, although exact details and fines may vary depending on the state.

In Queensland, for example, cyclists can be fined A$287 (£146) for exceeding the speed limit by 11km/h.

https://road.cc/content/feature/do-cyclists-have-stick-speed-limit-303663

QUOTE: AidanR replied to David9694 | 388 posts | 1 hour ago
2 likes
On my more spirited days I cycle at 20mph in 20 zones. I try not to exceed this even though I know that technically the limit doesn't apply to me (only really an issue with gravity/wind in my favour) and I regularly get overtaken by drivers. ENDS

YUP - USUALLY OUTSIDE SCHOOLS.

On 05/09/2023 12:18 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> You might have seen the topic of cyclists and speed limits is back in the news this week. That's after a group ride in Dartmoor was stopped by the police for descending at 39mph into a village with a 30mph speed limit. But what does the law say about speed limits for cyclists? Can you be fined?

Yes.

For wanton and furious riding or driving (or whatever the exact wording
of the offence is - it's the same for equestrians and / or persons
driving hose-drawn carriages).

> Do you have to stick to them?
>
> Devon and Cornwall's Roads Policing Team explained to road.cc how they "offered appropriate words of advice" to the cyclists they saw riding above the 30mph limit, but crucially, "legislation does not require cyclists to adhere to the speed limit". That's the crux of the matter — cyclists do not share the same legal obligation as motorists to stick to speed limits in the United Kingdom.
>
> Rule 124 of the Highway Code (link is external) outlines a table for vehicles' maximum legal speed on different roads, from built-up areas through to motorways, but does not mention cyclists. Furthermore, while the 1984 Road Traffic Regulation Act (link is external) outlines the law regarding speed limits, again cyclists are not mentioned.
>
> Now-retired traffic police officer and recent road.cc Podcast guest Mark Hodson, who pioneered close pass operations with West Midlands Police, told us: "It's common knowledge that speed limits only apply to motor vehicles so the offence of 'excess speed' where a cyclist is concerned simply can't happen.
>
> "You could commit the offences of 'cycling without due care' or 'wanton and furious cycling' but you would have to hit a high threshold of possible endangerment that would normally only occur in shared spaces where other vulnerable road users are present.
>
> "It really does baffle me as someone who has spent the best years of my life trying to reduce road danger and demand at source as to why some people, and officers, get so entangled in cyclist behaviours.
>
> "After all, evidentially it's obvious that to do so is a waste of time and resources, and anyone with even a bit of intelligence realises that the inherent sense of vulnerability that accompanies cycling prevents many of the endangering behaviours we see exhibited by drivers.
>
> "If they are exhibited by cyclists, the relative amounts of kinetic energy involved and the tiny impact they currently induce on society means that to even concern oneself with them in a climate of increasing driver-induced demand and reduced resources is simply somewhere between incompetent and foolish."
>
> But what about bylaws?
>
> The only exception is where a local bylaw has been enforced. These will be away from public roads, often in areas such as parks or seafront promenades.
>
> For example, Hampstead Heath in north west London has a bylaw in place stating that: "No person shall in any open space drive any vehicle, bicycle or tricycle or ride any animal at a rate exceeding twelve miles an hour or so as to endanger the public."
>
> Breaching a bylaw can result in an on-the-spot fine.
>
> Where do cyclists have to adhere to speed limits?
>
> While the United Kingdom shares its stance that speed limits do not apply to cyclists with one of the world's most cycling-friendly nations, the Netherlands, there are plenty of destinations around the world where you will be expected to stick to the same speed limit that motorists are obliged to follow, such as in Spain.
>
> In Australia and the United States too cyclists must follow the same rules of the road as motorists, although exact details and fines may vary depending on the state.
>
> In Queensland, for example, cyclists can be fined A$287 (£146) for exceeding the speed limit by 11km/h.
>
> https://road.cc/content/feature/do-cyclists-have-stick-speed-limit-303663
>

Isn't there a legal requirement to obey signage and legal instructions? Why are speed limit signs exempt from this, but a Stop sign (for example) aren't?

Speed limits are not exempt. Cyclists must obey all signs that apply to them. Speed limit signs don't.

Equally, car driver must obey all signs that apply to them. There is no need for a[n otherwise legal] car driver to comply with signs prohibiting heavy vehicles.

On 05/09/2023 08:34 pm, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:

> Isn't there a legal requirement to obey signage and legal instructions? Why are speed limit signs exempt from this, but a Stop sign (for example) aren't?
>
> Speed limits are not exempt. Cyclists must obey all signs that apply to them. Speed limit signs don't.

What excuse do all the chavs on bikes use for not obeying red traffic
lights?

Or No Entry signs?
>
> Equally, car driver must obey all signs that apply to them. There is no need for a[n otherwise legal] car driver to comply with signs prohibiting heavy vehicles.
>

Let's kill this one off! There aren't going to be speed limits for cyclists.. Speedos are very accurate if you want them to be, but Count the Revolutions Speedos are very easily recalibrated to tyre circumference so you can simply lie to them, and very simply change them back. GPS Speedos linked to a camera would reliably link speed to location, and if they weren't working would not give a speed value. However, the police have backed themselves into a corner by declaring that no bicycle speedometers are acceptable. Hence, no cyclist speeding prosecution in the absence of a collision.

I'm a serving officer and also a cyclist ( I hide no bias here). I completely and utterly agree with the comments by the former traffic officer in the story. If you watch that video of Dartmoor and imagine there is no speed on the bottom corner, there is clearly no dangerous or wanton cycling whatsoever, leaving us only with speed. The advice given over speed to the group is simply that- advice over their own safety.
If anyone came to me to try and prosecute them, not only would I not allow the prosecution itself, I believe no court in the land would ever convict based on that evidence.
Its a nothing story that has just stirred up the usual hatred of cyclists by the usual suspects.

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> Let's kill this one off! There aren't going to be speed limits for
> cyclists. Speedos are very accurate if you want them to be, but Count the
> Revolutions Speedos are very easily recalibrated to tyre circumference so
> you can simply lie to them, and very simply change them back. GPS Speedos
> linked to a camera would reliably link speed to location, and if they
> weren't working would not give a speed value. However, the police have
> backed themselves into a corner by declaring that no bicycle speedometers
> are acceptable. Hence, no cyclist speeding prosecution in the absence of a collision.
>
> I'm a serving officer and also a cyclist ( I hide no bias here). I
> completely and utterly agree with the comments by the former traffic
> officer in the story. If you watch that video of Dartmoor and imagine
> there is no speed on the bottom corner, there is clearly no dangerous or
> wanton cycling whatsoever

Let’s kill this one off.

What planet is this guy on?

The group of cyclists were approaching a cross-roads junction with limited
sight lines due to the high hedges, and having a zebra crossing across the
major road. They were travelling at well over the posted speed limit. This
means that any vulnerable road user approaching the junction from the minor
road, expecting traffic to keep to the limit, is now in danger from that
unexpected excessive speed of the cyclists.

Speed differentials kill, the greater the differential, the greater the
risk:

<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_curve#/media/File%3ASolomon_Curve.png>

Those cyclists would have impacted a crossing vehicle, horse, or pedestrian
at 40mph, a huge speed differential.

Those Devon and Cornwall officers were right.

> leaving us only with speed. The advice given over speed to the group is
> simply that- advice over their own safety.
> If anyone came to me to try and prosecute them, not only would I not
> allow the prosecution itself, I believe no court in the land would ever
> convict based on that evidence.
> Its a nothing story that has just stirred up the usual hatred of cyclists
> by the usual suspects.

What an interesting glimpse into one police office’s mind. I expect there
are others with different outlooks, but they aren’t likely to get their
opinions posted on cycling groups (the ‘confirmation bias’ issue).

And as far as ‘the police have backed themselves into a corner by declaring
that no bicycle speedometers are acceptable’ is concerned, the police will
follow what law Parliament lays down, and if it should declare that cycle
speedometers are required, then that’s it. If a bicycle speedometer meets
the specification, it’s suitable, whether the police like it or not.

--
Spike

muppetkeeper | 55 posts | 16 hours ago
1 like
I don't have a speedo on my bike, if I follow cars in a 30 zone I assume I'll be doing 35mph or so?

AND THE REST!

In a new report released by the Department for Transport (DfT), in 2022, under free-flowing traffic conditions, 50% of car drivers exceeded the speed limit on 30mph roads.

The data also revealed that 45% of drivers also exceeded speed limits on the motorways and 11% of those behind the wheel admitted to breaking the national speed limit single carriageway roads.

Overall, DfT stated that speed limit compliance in 2022 was slightly higher than 2021, where lower levels of compliance may be partly attributed to the impact of the coronavirus pandemic on lower traffic levels.

However, vehicle speed limit compliance in 2022 has remained broadly similar when compared to vehicle speed limit compliance levels between 2011 and 2019.

Last year, the percentage of car drivers exceeding the speed limit by more than 10mph was much lower than overall speeding, at 8% on motorways, 5% on 30mph roads and 1% on National Speed Limit single carriageway roads.

These recordings were only on road conditions where traffic is free flowing.. This is where there are no junctions, hills, sharp bends, speed enforcement cameras or other traffic calming measures.

The average car speed, under free flow conditions, was just under the speed limit on motorways at 69mph.

Drivers matched the speed limit on 30mph roads and drivers were on average 9mph slower than the single carriageway roads limit (51mph).

The statistics do not cover roads where the road layout or traffic calming measures are likely to impact vehicle speeds.

Speed limits in the UK – know the laws
Speed cameras – how they work
Speeding fines – how much you have to pay

RAC head of policy Simon Williams said: “It’s concerning to see that every year half of drivers exceed the limit on 30mph roads, with more than a fifth (22%) last year driving more than five miles an hour too fast.

“The implications of speeding on these roads is likely to be greater than on faster roads, not least as they’re generally in areas with more pedestrians and cyclists.

“One possible explanation for why speed limit compliance is so much worse compared to other roads is that drivers may be used to looking for speed limit signs, which are much less prevalent on 30mph roads as generally speaking the presence of streetlights indicates the limit is 30mph.

“While drivers should know this, perhaps there is a case for the use of more ‘repeater’ signs in 30mph areas so there is no doubt.”

For more research on speeding – including reasons drivers give for exceeding different speed limits – RAC’s Report on Motoring highlights the dangers drivers face on our roads.

Have you noticed an increase in drivers exceeding speed limits? What can be done to stop drivers breaking the law? Leave your comments below.

Rendel Harris replied to BigBear63 | 5308 posts | 13 hours ago
1 like
And indeed Royal Parks have now admitted (2021) that speed limits in Richmond Park do not apply to cyclists, though there are signs that they are trying to change that with their proposal to impose a (ludicrous) 20mph cycling limit on Broomfield Hill. It's not that they couldn't impose a limit if they wanted (the roads within the park not counting as a public highway) but that the instruments they curently have in place cannot be applied to cyclists.

grOg replied to Oldfatgit | 744 posts | 8 hours ago
0 likes
'Why are speed limit signs exempt from this, but a Stop sign... aren't?'
If you had thought this through before posting this, you would realise the difference between a stop sign and speed limits; anybody knows when they have stopped but knowing what speed you are doing requires a speed measuring device, so clearly, a bicycle that is not fitted with a speedo must be exempt from speed limits.

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> grOg replied to Oldfatgit | 744 posts | 8 hours ago
> 0 likes
>
> 'Why are speed limit signs exempt from this, but a Stop sign... aren't?'
> If you had thought this through before posting this, you would realise
> the difference between a stop sign and speed limits; anybody knows when
> they have stopped but knowing what speed you are doing requires a speed
> measuring device, so clearly, a bicycle that is not fitted with a speedo
> must be exempt from speed limits.

False logic, typical of those in the cycling world.

--
Spike

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> Rendel Harris replied to BigBear63 | 5308 posts | 13 hours ago
> 1 like
>
> And indeed Royal Parks have now admitted (2021) that speed limits in
> Richmond Park do not apply to cyclists, though there are signs that they
> are trying to change that with their proposal to impose a (ludicrous)
> 20mph cycling limit on Broomfield Hill. It's not that they couldn't
> impose a limit if they wanted (the roads within the park not counting as
> a public highway) but that the instruments they curently have in place
> cannot be applied to cyclists.

Developments regarding Broomfield Hill speed limits for cyclists are
awaited with considerable interest.

--
Spike

GMBasix replied to Bigfoz | 686 posts | 1 day ago
10 likes

Yes, but I've heard a lot of people saying that there are no speed limits for cycling because bicycles don't have speedometers. That may be an explanation for how some discussion went at some point, but the actual, literal answer is that there are no speed limits for cycling because the law does not prescribe any.

If we conjure up some explanation about speedometers, somebody will point out that lots of bikes have them, so why not make it mandatory.

The reason should be that there is no justification for a speed limit because it does not meet any significant risk-based need for one.

swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> GMBasix replied to Bigfoz | 686 posts | 1 day ago
> 10 likes
>
> Yes, but I've heard a lot of people saying that there are no speed limits
> for cycling because bicycles don't have speedometers. That may be an
> explanation for how some discussion went at some point, but the actual,
> literal answer is that there are no speed limits for cycling because the
> law does not prescribe any.
>
> If we conjure up some explanation about speedometers, somebody will point
> out that lots of bikes have them, so why not make it mandatory.
>
> The reason should be that there is no justification for a speed limit
> because it does not meet any significant risk-based need for one.

With 1 in 6 cyclist road deaths involving no other road user, ‘no
significant risk’ arising from cyclists speeding would seem to be a pious
hope.

--
Spike

Spike <aero.spike@btinternet.invalid> wrote:
> swldx...@gmail.com <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
>> GMBasix replied to Bigfoz | 686 posts | 1 day ago
>> 10 likes

>> Yes, but I've heard a lot of people saying that there are no speed limits
>> for cycling because bicycles don't have speedometers. That may be an
>> explanation for how some discussion went at some point, but the actual,
>> literal answer is that there are no speed limits for cycling because the
>> law does not prescribe any.

>> If we conjure up some explanation about speedometers, somebody will point
>> out that lots of bikes have them, so why not make it mandatory.

>> The reason should be that there is no justification for a speed limit
>> because it does not meet any significant risk-based need for one.

> With 1 in 6 cyclist road deaths involving no other road user, ‘no
> significant risk’ arising from cyclists speeding would seem to be a pious
> hope…

…especially when the Solomon Curve regarding the risks inherent in speed
differentials is taken into account:

<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon_curve#/media/File%3ASolomon_Curve.png>

--
Spike

wtjs replied to Bigfoz | 3020 posts | 1 day ago
3 likes

surely there would also be a legal imperative to sell bikes with a working speedo. AS no bike comes with one

It's worse than that. The police refuse to believe that any cycle is travelling at 10mph or more, except when they're trying to 'do them' for 'furious cycling'. This is why, in Lancashire at least, it's always legal to overtake any cyclist by crossing double or single unbroken white lines- the police ignore, or don't kow, that bit about 'it must be seen to be safe to do so'.

We have GPS speedos, we have supremely accurate 'count the revolutions' speedos (last night I did 34 km and the CtR speedo and the GPS were less than 1 part in a thousand apart), but the police refuse to pay any attention to them- therefore they can't prosecute us for exceeding any speed limit we can manage 'as long as it's safe to do so'

On 06/09/2023 11:31, swldx...@gmail.com wrote:
> grOg replied to Oldfatgit | 744 posts | 8 hours ago
> 0 likes
>
> 'Why are speed limit signs exempt from this, but a Stop sign... aren't?'
> If you had thought this through before posting this, you would realise the difference between a stop sign and speed limits; anybody knows when they have stopped but knowing what speed you are doing requires a speed measuring device, so clearly, a bicycle that is not fitted with a speedo must be exempt from speed limits.

Whilst I expect most 'Speed pedelecs' do have a speedometer, it would be
possible for one to be a motor vehicle subject to speed limits which does
not require a speedometer under the construction and use regulations, and
does not weigh anything close to 1.5 tonnes.