Looking sadly at my empty vegetable patch and thinking it might not be
too late if I order them today (1 Nov) to stick a few plug plants in to
grow over the winter. Maybe some kale? Broad beans? Onion sets? What
would be best?

It's only a little 10' x 10' bed where growing is for pleasure so it's
really a little of this and a little of that. I don't try to get any
quantity from it.

Tim W

On 01/11/2023 12:53, TimW wrote:
> Looking sadly at my empty vegetable patch and thinking it might not be
> too late if I order them today (1 Nov) to stick a few plug plants in to
> grow over the winter. Maybe some kale? Broad beans? Onion sets? What
> would be best?
>
> It's only a little 10' x 10' bed where growing is for pleasure so it's
> really a little of this and a little of that. I don't try to get any
> quantity from it.

It's such a while since I've been in any condition to attempt anything
not in pots/containers of some sort that all I can do is to pla more in
hope than expectation.

Parsnips, leeks, perpetual spinach and (just) other spinach, spring
onions, Swiss Chard, turnips are mostly OK to plant (seeds or plugs) in
November, but you omit to mention where you are and soil type.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 01/11/2023 17:26, RustyHinge wrote:
> On 01/11/2023 12:53, TimW wrote:
>> Looking sadly at my empty vegetable patch and thinking it might not be
>> too late if I order them today (1 Nov) to stick a few plug plants in
>> to grow over the winter. Maybe some kale? Broad beans? Onion sets?
>> What would be best?
>>
>> It's only a little 10' x 10' bed where growing is for pleasure so it's
>> really a little of this and a little of that. I don't try to get any
>> quantity from it.
>
> It's such a while since I've been in any condition to attempt anything
> not in pots/containers of some sort that all I can do is to pla more in
> hope than expectation.
>
> Parsnips, leeks, perpetual spinach and (just) other spinach, spring
> onions, Swiss Chard, turnips are mostly OK to plant (seeds or plugs) in
> November, but you omit to mention where you are and soil type.
>

I am in Somerset. The bed is clay heavily composted over ten years and more.
TW

On 01/11/2023 22:18, TimW wrote:
> On 01/11/2023 17:26, RustyHinge wrote:
>> On 01/11/2023 12:53, TimW wrote:
>>> Looking sadly at my empty vegetable patch and thinking it might not
>>> be too late if I order them today (1 Nov) to stick a few plug plants
>>> in to grow over the winter. Maybe some kale? Broad beans? Onion sets?
>>> What would be best?
>>>
>>> It's only a little 10' x 10' bed where growing is for pleasure so
>>> it's really a little of this and a little of that. I don't try to get
>>> any quantity from it.
>>
>> It's such a while since I've been in any condition to attempt anything
>> not in pots/containers of some sort that all I can do is to pla more
>> in hope than expectation.
>>
>> Parsnips, leeks, perpetual spinach and (just) other spinach, spring
>> onions, Swiss Chard, turnips are mostly OK to plant (seeds or plugs)
>> in November, but you omit to mention where you are and soil type.
>>
>
> I am in Somerset. The bed is clay heavily composted over ten years and
> more.
> TW

There's always more exotic stuff in pots or containers so long as the
site is secure.

I've got a lot of small date palms coming on. Long after I've gone they
will be *BIG* date palms. Fruit trees, especially 'family' trees and
them on dwarfing-stock would be an option. (Somerset suggested that...)

You are a bit closer to the equator than I (in Norfolk), and I have a
Hunza apricot in a pot, and some of the dates will go out permanently to
see how they fare. Canary dates are fully hardy, but whether they will
fruit is another matter. What *would* fruit is a vine or a fig. In the
fig line, only Brown Turkey will bear fruit without the little wasp
which pollinates each fruit, (no other pollinator available in the UK)
but its lack means it's not full of those tiny crunchy pips.

Family trees could include apples of different varieties (you need to
research which will pollinate which so you're not relying on
long-distance bees). Plum, apricot and greengage should be compatible,
as should peach, apricot and almond. It's a good opportunity to learn
about grafting and budding.

That should keep you busy.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

In article <uhthp4$1k93j$1@dont-email.me>, TimW <timw@nomailta.co.uk> wrote:
>Looking sadly at my empty vegetable patch and thinking it might not be
>too late if I order them today (1 Nov) to stick a few plug plants in to
>grow over the winter. Maybe some kale? Broad beans? Onion sets? What
>would be best?
>
>It's only a little 10' x 10' bed where growing is for pleasure so it's
>really a little of this and a little of that. I don't try to get any
>quantity from it.

A waste of time. Nothing will grow until there is more light. You
might grow some broad beans for overwintering, but they won't be
much earlier than spring-sown ones and will suffer if there is a hard
winter. They aren't worth it here, but Cambridge is colder. Those
hardy things are fine to leave in the ground over winter, and that's
how you grow kale and broccoli, but they do their growing in late
summer and autumn.

Sorry, but it's all over until at least February.

Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 02/11/2023 00:04, RustyHinge wrote:
> On 01/11/2023 22:18, TimW wrote:
>> On 01/11/2023 17:26, RustyHinge wrote:
>>> On 01/11/2023 12:53, TimW wrote:
>>>> Looking sadly at my empty vegetable patch and thinking it might not
>>>> be too late if I order them today (1 Nov) to stick a few plug plants
>>>> in to grow over the winter. Maybe some kale? Broad beans? Onion sets?
>>>> What would be best?
>>>>
>>>> It's only a little 10' x 10' bed where growing is for pleasure so
>>>> it's really a little of this and a little of that. I don't try to get
>>>> any quantity from it.
>>>
>>> It's such a while since I've been in any condition to attempt anything
>>> not in pots/containers of some sort that all I can do is to pla more
>>> in hope than expectation.
>>>
>>> Parsnips, leeks, perpetual spinach and (just) other spinach, spring
>>> onions, Swiss Chard, turnips are mostly OK to plant (seeds or plugs)
>>> in November, but you omit to mention where you are and soil type.
>>>
>>
>> I am in Somerset. The bed is clay heavily composted over ten years and
>> more.
>> TW
>
> There's always more exotic stuff in pots or containers so long as the
> site is secure.
>
> I've got a lot of small date palms coming on. Long after I've gone they
> will be *BIG* date palms. Fruit trees, especially 'family' trees and
> them on dwarfing-stock would be an option. (Somerset suggested that...)
>
> You are a bit closer to the equator than I (in Norfolk), and I have a
> Hunza apricot in a pot, and some of the dates will go out permanently to
> see how they fare. Canary dates are fully hardy, but whether they will
> fruit is another matter.

Even if they do fruit, it's just said to be "edible", so nothing like
the dates we buy in shops. Commercial dates are from Phoenix dactylifera
rather than canariensis, and that is definitely not hardy. You might
find this interesting, though:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua27q-7_f8M>

What *would* fruit is a vine or a fig. In the
> fig line, only Brown Turkey will bear fruit without the little wasp
> which pollinates each fruit, (no other pollinator available in the UK)
> but its lack means it's not full of those tiny crunchy pips.

Where did you see that, as it's not correct? There are many varieties of
fig sold here which produce fruit without the need for a wasp. From the
RHS page at <https://www.rhs.org.uk/fruit/figs/grow-your-own>:
"In the UK's cool temperate climate, figs develop seedless fruit without
fertilisation (parthenocarpic fruit), so pollination is not needed."

I would be very surprised if the sellers at, for example:
<https://www.rootsplants.co.uk/blogs/features/best-fig-trees>
<https://www.pomonafruits.co.uk/growing-guides/fig-trees>
would be allowed to make the statements they do if their plants never
fruited.

> Family trees could include apples of different varieties (you need to
> research which will pollinate which so you're not relying on
> long-distance bees). Plum, apricot and greengage should be compatible,
> as should peach, apricot and almond. It's a good opportunity to learn
> about grafting and budding.
>
> That should keep you busy.

With the amount of rain we've had this autumn, perhaps the OP should
consider growing a nice crop of rice!

--

Jeff

On Wed, 1 Nov 2023 12:53:56 TimW wrote:

>Looking sadly at my empty vegetable patch and thinking it might not be
>too late if I order them today (1 Nov) to stick a few plug plants in to
>grow over the winter. Maybe some kale? Broad beans? Onion sets? What
>would be best?

Mine isn't quite empty. My runner beans are having a second crop and I
picked a handful yesterday.

However my butternut squashes caught the frost a week or more ago so I
don't know whether the fruit will actually ripen. They're still quite
green.

But, for the last month or so, I'm enjoying a mid crop of figs. When I
say "mid-crop", my early crop is in July and a late crop is in
mid-November. These that I'm gathering now are from a bush that I took
as a runner from my main bush and which I planted out about ten years
ago and has just cropped for the first time.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK

On 02/11/2023 08:42, Nick Maclaren wrote:
> In article <uhthp4$1k93j$1@dont-email.me>, TimW <timw@nomailta.co.uk> wrote:
>> Looking sadly at my empty vegetable patch and thinking it might not be
>> too late if I order them today (1 Nov) to stick a few plug plants in to
>> grow over the winter. Maybe some kale? Broad beans? Onion sets? What
>> would be best?
>>
>> It's only a little 10' x 10' bed where growing is for pleasure so it's
>> really a little of this and a little of that. I don't try to get any
>> quantity from it.
>
> A waste of time. Nothing will grow until there is more light. You
> might grow some broad beans for overwintering, but they won't be
> much earlier than spring-sown ones and will suffer if there is a hard
> winter. They aren't worth it here, but Cambridge is colder. Those
> hardy things are fine to leave in the ground over winter, and that's
> how you grow kale and broccoli, but they do their growing in late
> summer and autumn.
>
> Sorry, but it's all over until at least February.
>
>
> Regards,
> Nick Maclaren.

This is something of a counsel of despair. Japanese onions and garlic
can go in now, shallots in a month or so. There are varieties of early
peas which can be sown to over winter. If some protection can be given
(cloches, fleece etc.) there are winter salad crops such as lamb's
lettuce and corn salad as well as japanese greens like mizuna which
would be worth trying. Be sure to keep fleece from sitting directly on
the plants, especially when wet, though.

john

On 02/11/2023 08:47, Jeff Layman wrote:
>
> With the amount of rain we've had this autumn, perhaps the OP should
> consider growing a nice crop of rice!
>
Or water chestnut, or dig a nice deep hole for a fishpond. Tonsure optinal.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 02/11/2023 08:47, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 02/11/2023 00:04, RustyHinge wrote:
>> On 01/11/2023 22:18, TimW wrote:
>>> On 01/11/2023 17:26, RustyHinge wrote:
>>>> On 01/11/2023 12:53, TimW wrote:
>>>>> Looking sadly at my empty vegetable patch and thinking it might not
>>>>> be too late if I order them today (1 Nov) to stick a few plug plants
>>>>> in to grow over the winter. Maybe some kale? Broad beans? Onion sets?
>>>>> What would be best?
>>>>>
>>>>> It's only a little 10' x 10' bed where growing is for pleasure so
>>>>> it's really a little of this and a little of that. I don't try to get
>>>>> any quantity from it.
>>>>
>>>> It's such a while since I've been in any condition to attempt anything
>>>> not in pots/containers of some sort that all I can do is to pla more
>>>> in hope than expectation.
>>>>
>>>> Parsnips, leeks, perpetual spinach and (just) other spinach, spring
>>>> onions, Swiss Chard, turnips are mostly OK to plant (seeds or plugs)
>>>> in November, but you omit to mention where you are and soil type.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I am in Somerset. The bed is clay heavily composted over ten years and
>>> more.
>>> TW
>>
>> There's always more exotic stuff in pots or containers so long as the
>> site is secure.
>>
>> I've got a lot of small date palms coming on. Long after I've gone they
>> will be *BIG* date palms. Fruit trees, especially 'family' trees and
>> them on dwarfing-stock would be an option. (Somerset suggested that...)
>>
>> You are a bit closer to the equator than I (in Norfolk), and I have a
>> Hunza apricot in a pot, and some of the dates will go out permanently to
>> see how they fare. Canary dates are fully hardy, but whether they will
>> fruit is another matter.
>
> Even if they do fruit, it's just said to be "edible", so nothing like
> the dates we buy in shops. Commercial dates are from Phoenix dactylifera
> rather than canariensis, and that is definitely not hardy. You might
> find this interesting, though:
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua27q-7_f8M>

The small forest of date seedlings are all from dates harvested in Saudi
Arabia, and are squatter than the commercial longer ones you usually
see. When I find the big jar they're stored in I'll post the variety.

Don't wait up - my carers hide things in the most unlikely places. (Asdo
my rellies: I thought I had plenty of potatoes and onions but on return
after a week away, none to be found. 'Someone@ had put the in the
*bathroom*!)

> What *would* fruit is a vine or a fig. In the
>> fig line, only Brown Turkey will bear fruit without the little wasp
>> which pollinates each fruit, (no other pollinator available in the UK)
>> but its lack means it's not full of those tiny crunchy pips.
>
> Where did you see that, as it's not correct? There are many varieties of
> fig sold here which produce fruit without the need for a wasp. From the
> RHS page at <https://www.rhs.org.uk/fruit/figs/grow-your-own>:
> "In the UK's cool temperate climate, figs develop seedless fruit without
> fertilisation (parthenocarpic fruit), so pollination is not needed."

I *think* I heard it years ago on GQT, BICBW - so in that belief I
bought the only fig in the nursery, a Brown Turkey, which fruited in
remarkably short order and has continued to do so over the years.

> I would be very surprised if the sellers at, for example:
> <https://www.rootsplants.co.uk/blogs/features/best-fig-trees>
> <https://www.pomonafruits.co.uk/growing-guides/fig-trees>
> would be allowed to make the statements they do if their plants never
> fruited.

Got a ruiting fig so never bothered tolook any further.

>> Family trees could include apples of different varieties (you need to
>> research which will pollinate which so you're not relying on
>> long-distance bees). Plum, apricot and greengage should be compatible,
>> as should peach, apricot and almond. It's a good opportunity to learn
>> about grafting and budding.
>>
>> That should keep you busy.
>
> With the amount of rain we've had this autumn, perhaps the OP should
> consider growing a nice crop of rice!
>

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 02/11/2023 15:50, RustyHinge wrote:
> On 02/11/2023 08:47, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> On 02/11/2023 00:04, RustyHinge wrote:
>>> On 01/11/2023 22:18, TimW wrote:
>>>> On 01/11/2023 17:26, RustyHinge wrote:
>>>>> On 01/11/2023 12:53, TimW wrote:
>>>>>> Looking sadly at my empty vegetable patch and thinking it might not
>>>>>> be too late if I order them today (1 Nov) to stick a few plug plants
>>>>>> in to grow over the winter. Maybe some kale? Broad beans? Onion sets?
>>>>>> What would be best?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's only a little 10' x 10' bed where growing is for pleasure so
>>>>>> it's really a little of this and a little of that. I don't try to get
>>>>>> any quantity from it.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's such a while since I've been in any condition to attempt anything
>>>>> not in pots/containers of some sort that all I can do is to pla more
>>>>> in hope than expectation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Parsnips, leeks, perpetual spinach and (just) other spinach, spring
>>>>> onions, Swiss Chard, turnips are mostly OK to plant (seeds or plugs)
>>>>> in November, but you omit to mention where you are and soil type.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am in Somerset. The bed is clay heavily composted over ten years and
>>>> more.
>>>> TW
>>>
>>> There's always more exotic stuff in pots or containers so long as the
>>> site is secure.
>>>
>>> I've got a lot of small date palms coming on. Long after I've gone they
>>> will be *BIG* date palms. Fruit trees, especially 'family' trees and
>>> them on dwarfing-stock would be an option. (Somerset suggested that...)
>>>
>>> You are a bit closer to the equator than I (in Norfolk), and I have a
>>> Hunza apricot in a pot, and some of the dates will go out permanently to
>>> see how they fare. Canary dates are fully hardy, but whether they will
>>> fruit is another matter.
>>
>> Even if they do fruit, it's just said to be "edible", so nothing like
>> the dates we buy in shops. Commercial dates are from Phoenix dactylifera
>> rather than canariensis, and that is definitely not hardy. You might
>> find this interesting, though:
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua27q-7_f8M>
>
> The small forest of date seedlings are all from dates harvested in Saudi
> Arabia, and are squatter than the commercial longer ones you usually
> see. When I find the big jar they're stored in I'll post the variety.

I have a neighbour who gets dates from London. He gave me some Sagai and
Madina dates (those are English versions of Arabic words. There might be
different ways of spelling it). They were very different from the usual
ones in our shops, and even from Medjool. I never knew there were so
many varieties - e.g. see <https://bateel.com/en/seven-types/>
> Don't wait up - my carers hide things in the most unlikely places. (Asdo
> my rellies: I thought I had plenty of potatoes and onions but on return
> after a week away, none to be found. 'Someone@ had put the in the
> *bathroom*!)

How strange...

>> What *would* fruit is a vine or a fig. In the
>>> fig line, only Brown Turkey will bear fruit without the little wasp
>>> which pollinates each fruit, (no other pollinator available in the UK)
>>> but its lack means it's not full of those tiny crunchy pips.
>>
>> Where did you see that, as it's not correct? There are many varieties of
>> fig sold here which produce fruit without the need for a wasp. From the
>> RHS page at <https://www.rhs.org.uk/fruit/figs/grow-your-own>:
>> "In the UK's cool temperate climate, figs develop seedless fruit without
>> fertilisation (parthenocarpic fruit), so pollination is not needed."
>
> I *think* I heard it years ago on GQT, BICBW - so in that belief I
> bought the only fig in the nursery, a Brown Turkey, which fruited in
> remarkably short order and has continued to do so over the years.

I've grown Brown Turkey for several years, but I really should look
after it better - prune, top dress with new soil, and give it some
high-potassium fertiliser. Then I might get a decent crop rather than
just half-a-dozen figs.

>> I would be very surprised if the sellers at, for example:
>> <https://www.rootsplants.co.uk/blogs/features/best-fig-trees>
>> <https://www.pomonafruits.co.uk/growing-guides/fig-trees>
>> would be allowed to make the statements they do if their plants never
>> fruited.
>
> Got a ruiting fig so never bothered tolook any further.

I wonder what the other varieties taste like.

--

Jeff

On 02/11/2023 17:27, Jeff Layman wrote:
>
/prune/

> I've grown Brown Turkey for several years, but I really should look
> after it better - prune, top dress with new soil, and give it some
> high-potassium fertiliser. Then I might get a decent crop rather than
> just half-a-dozen figs.
>
/prune/

When I was at bawdy school around 1949/50 the school was in a onetime
'hall' and had a walled garden in which there was a vast fig tree.
(Might have looked vast in comparison to me at that time though).

No idea what variety it was, but as I (think) I remember it, its growth
pattern was much more tree-like than Brown Turkeys of my more recent
acquaintance, but the figs tasted the same, as do any I've bought fresh.

I constrained the fig in an old bath buried to its rim, so I expect some
roots have escaped through the plug'ole to seek more nutrient, but not
enough for it to grow huge.

My Black Hamburg though hasn't had a proper prune since I became
invalided out of circulation, and is threatening to take-over the world.

<Gasp! Chokehhhhhhhhh
THUD>

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

In article <uhvnnj$23p0f$1@dont-email.me>,
Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>On 02/11/2023 00:04, RustyHinge wrote:
>>
>> You are a bit closer to the equator than I (in Norfolk), and I have a
>> Hunza apricot in a pot, and some of the dates will go out permanently to
>> see how they fare. Canary dates are fully hardy, but whether they will
>> fruit is another matter.
>
>Even if they do fruit, it's just said to be "edible", so nothing like
>the dates we buy in shops. Commercial dates are from Phoenix dactylifera
>rather than canariensis, and that is definitely not hardy. You might
>find this interesting, though:

Phoenix canariensis is definitely NOT fully hardy, and wouldn't have
survived even last winter in Cambridge, let alone the ones we had in
the 1980s. The problem with P. dactylifera isn't its frost-tenderness
but the fact that it needs high temperatures to grow and fruit. And,
no, 30 Celsius is NOT high - it doesn't grow at all below 20, is happy
up to at least 50, and I am pretty sure needs 40+ to fruit.

>What *would* fruit is a vine or a fig. In the
>> fig line, only Brown Turkey will bear fruit without the little wasp
>> which pollinates each fruit, (no other pollinator available in the UK)
>> but its lack means it's not full of those tiny crunchy pips.
>
>Where did you see that, as it's not correct? There are many varieties of
>fig sold here which produce fruit without the need for a wasp. From the
>RHS page at <https://www.rhs.org.uk/fruit/figs/grow-your-own>:
>"In the UK's cool temperate climate, figs develop seedless fruit without
>fertilisation (parthenocarpic fruit), so pollination is not needed."

I haven't had much success with figs, despite growing them in several
different conditions, but all of the 3 varieties I have grown do set
fruit. Pollination is not the problem.

Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article <ui04bf$26b2n$1@dont-email.me>,
John Ashby <johnashby20@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>This is something of a counsel of despair. Japanese onions and garlic
>can go in now, shallots in a month or so. There are varieties of early
>peas which can be sown to over winter. If some protection can be given
>(cloches, fleece etc.) there are winter salad crops such as lamb's
>lettuce and corn salad as well as japanese greens like mizuna which
>would be worth trying. Be sure to keep fleece from sitting directly on
>the plants, especially when wet, though.

No, it isn't. Yes, you CAN put things in now, but the salads will
produce a worthwhile (though still fairly minimal) crop only if we have
a mild, sunny winter, and sowing hardy vegetables doesn't gain more
than a week or so with the (high) risk of losing the lot if the winter
is wet or cold. Over the years, I have tried all of those, and many
more, and have managed to harvest something only one time in five or
so. Dammit, even the weeds have essentially stopped growing!

It is far better to wait, though you can start again in February with
the hardiest vegetables (or indoors) in most places, and March for
most cool-condition plants. By then, the light levels are enough for
the plants to grow fact enough to outpace the fungal rots.

The reservation is that is for Cambridge, and the same may well not
apply in the warmest parts of the UK (including London, which is
2 degrees warmer than here!) But even what I say is too optimistic
for the colder and more northerly parts of the UK.

Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 2023-11-03, Nick Maclaren <nmm@wheeler.UUCP> wrote:
> In article <ui04bf$26b2n$1@dont-email.me>,
> John Ashby <johnashby20@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>This is something of a counsel of despair. Japanese onions and garlic
>>can go in now, shallots in a month or so. There are varieties of early
>>peas which can be sown to over winter. If some protection can be given
>>(cloches, fleece etc.) there are winter salad crops such as lamb's
>>lettuce and corn salad as well as japanese greens like mizuna which
>>would be worth trying. Be sure to keep fleece from sitting directly on
>>the plants, especially when wet, though.
>
> No, it isn't. Yes, you CAN put things in now, but the salads will
> produce a worthwhile (though still fairly minimal) crop only if we have
> a mild, sunny winter, and sowing hardy vegetables doesn't gain more
> than a week or so with the (high) risk of losing the lot if the winter
> is wet or cold. Over the years, I have tried all of those, and many
> more, and have managed to harvest something only one time in five or
> so. Dammit, even the weeds have essentially stopped growing!
>
> It is far better to wait, though you can start again in February with
> the hardiest vegetables (or indoors) in most places, and March for
> most cool-condition plants. By then, the light levels are enough for
> the plants to grow fact enough to outpace the fungal rots.
>
> The reservation is that is for Cambridge, and the same may well not
> apply in the warmest parts of the UK (including London, which is
> 2 degrees warmer than here!) But even what I say is too optimistic
> for the colder and more northerly parts of the UK.
>

I'd echo these comments - West of Wakefield at 350feet high.
I do find that if you can establish reasonably sized plants outside by
October e.g. leafbeet, "hardy" lettuce and other saladings, then in a
mild winter you can get the odd leaf pickings. I use homemade cloches
which help get the odd pickings even in a modern "bad" winter.
I'm luck and have a largish cold greenhouse, so grow salad leaves in there
as well over winter.

On 05/11/2023 10:54, Jim Jackson wrote:
> On 2023-11-03, Nick Maclaren <nmm@wheeler.UUCP> wrote:
>> In article <ui04bf$26b2n$1@dont-email.me>,
>> John Ashby <johnashby20@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is something of a counsel of despair. Japanese onions and garlic
>>> can go in now, shallots in a month or so. There are varieties of early
>>> peas which can be sown to over winter. If some protection can be given
>>> (cloches, fleece etc.) there are winter salad crops such as lamb's
>>> lettuce and corn salad as well as japanese greens like mizuna which
>>> would be worth trying. Be sure to keep fleece from sitting directly on
>>> the plants, especially when wet, though.
>>
>> No, it isn't. Yes, you CAN put things in now, but the salads will
>> produce a worthwhile (though still fairly minimal) crop only if we have
>> a mild, sunny winter, and sowing hardy vegetables doesn't gain more
>> than a week or so with the (high) risk of losing the lot if the winter
>> is wet or cold. Over the years, I have tried all of those, and many
>> more, and have managed to harvest something only one time in five or
>> so. Dammit, even the weeds have essentially stopped growing!
>>
>> It is far better to wait, though you can start again in February with
>> the hardiest vegetables (or indoors) in most places, and March for
>> most cool-condition plants. By then, the light levels are enough for
>> the plants to grow fact enough to outpace the fungal rots.
>>
>> The reservation is that is for Cambridge, and the same may well not
>> apply in the warmest parts of the UK (including London, which is
>> 2 degrees warmer than here!) But even what I say is too optimistic
>> for the colder and more northerly parts of the UK.
>>
>
> I'd echo these comments - West of Wakefield at 350feet high.
> I do find that if you can establish reasonably sized plants outside by
> October e.g. leafbeet, "hardy" lettuce and other saladings, then in a
> mild winter you can get the odd leaf pickings. I use homemade cloches
> which help get the odd pickings even in a modern "bad" winter.
> I'm luck and have a largish cold greenhouse, so grow salad leaves in there
> as well over winter.
>
>

But the OP is in Somerset. I acknowledge there are bleak areas in that
county but for the most part he will have a milder climate than
Wakefield. Having grown up in Newmarket I'm familiar with the Cambridge
climate and would stand by my comments even there, given that I
mentioned the need for protection. In any case, what does the OP have to
lose? The price of a few packets of seed and a few hours of labour
(which being spent in a garden can't really count as labour).

john

In article <ui7v19$3vhgs$2@dont-email.me>,
John Ashby <johnashby20@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>But the OP is in Somerset. I acknowledge there are bleak areas in that
>county but for the most part he will have a milder climate than
>Wakefield. Having grown up in Newmarket I'm familiar with the Cambridge
>climate and would stand by my comments even there, given that I
>mentioned the need for protection. In any case, what does the OP have to
>lose? The price of a few packets of seed and a few hours of labour
>(which being spent in a garden can't really count as labour).

As I said, it's primarily the light, and Somerset is very little
further south. What he has to lose is the ability to plant next
year's vegetables in good time, unless he is ruthless enough to
grub the overwintered ones just as they are starting to look as if
he may have a crop.

It's quite warm enough here for things like rocket to grow (and
certainly the weeds!) but they have essentially given up, as I said.
It's as dark now as it is in the first week of February, and it is
getting rapidly darker.

Yes, he could try planting catch crops like rocket, lambs lettuce,
or other very hardy salad vegetables, but the chances of a decent
crop are poor.

Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 01/11/2023 12:53, TimW wrote:
[snip]

Thanks all for your input. This is what I did:

Since the oaks in the woods are weeks late in losing their leaves and
the cherry on the lawn is having an untimely Auntumn flowering I bought
in hope a small number of plug plants of mixed kales and broccolis. a
bit of compost and a bit of light loosening of the soil I stuck them in
the ground at 2'centres but the wind and rain seemed to keep them
flattened. It took me about ten days to drink enough Aldi mineral water
to cover them with half-plastic-bottle cloches in which time several
plants disappeared without trace. I suspect a mouse/rat/squirrel.
Remaining plants are now covered, hoping they might get some roots down
during the winter.

Tim W