When one Birmingham cyclist's Saturday bike ride with his eight-year-old granddaughter was interrupted by the sound of police sirens they carefully continued on their way for a few seconds, after all it seemed implausible the noise could be for the pair "not doing anything wrong", using a short stretch of cycle lane before returning to their preferred off-road routes for the remainder of the 12.5-mile ride.

"Can you pull over so we can have a word?" the voice behind the sirens asked, the police car, blue lights flashing, pulling alongside before coming to a stop at the side of the road.

What followed was, in one officer's words, just "a conversation" about road safety, namely the fact that neither Joe nor his eight-year-old granddaughter were wearing a helmet, an incident which has put her off cycling.

"On getting out of the vehicle the driver made a comment about us riding in the road without helmets," Joe recalled, referring to his camera footage which he did not wish to be shared but captured the full incident. "I asked, 'Is that illegal?'... 'No' was the answer, so I followed up by asking, 'Why are you pulling us over then?'

"In reply to this the officer said, 'I'm not here to have a go at you, or tell you you've broken the law, I'm not doing that... neither of you have done anything wrong, I'm just saying, just be sensible, that's it. No trouble, I'm not telling you you've broken the law, I'm just having a conversation with you'.

"I then followed this up by saying, 'There's no need. You've stopped us on a hill... I can't understand why you've stopped us, if we're doing nothing wrong.' The reply was, 'Because it's dangerous'."

Wearing a helmet while cycling is not a legal requirement in the United Kingdom, as it is in some other countries such as Australia, but is recommended by the Highway Code.

Last December, the Department for Transport insisted that the government has "no intention" of making wearing one a legal requirement, with "the safety benefits of mandating cycle helmets for cyclists likely to be outweighed by the fact that this would put some people off cycling, thereby reducing the wider health and environmental benefits."

Continuing his account of Saturday's incident, Joe told us one of the officers talked "about the possibility of us being involved in a collision further on where he would have to attend and deal with the consequences of my granddaughter being hit".

"Hearing this, I did become slightly irate, but not shouty, as I didn't think it was a reasonable thing to say in front of an eight-year-old, implying I hadn't considered her safety myself," Joe continued.

"To make things worse, the officer then went on to say how he was thinking about looking 'after her' pointing to my granddaughter. I then asked, as I had a few times, 'Do you not think, I'm looking after her?'.

The officer replied: "Of course you are, I could see you were riding further in the road than she was, which is brilliant" before shortly after suggesting that "if a car careers in to you, not wearing a helmet, you're going to know about it".

As Joe again pointed out that nothing they had done was against the law, the officer said: "Just take my advice, that she should wear a helmet."

"Throughout this whole exchange I was continually calling my granddaughter over so we could carry on our journey, but she seemed so scared, she didn't move from the spot she was on," Joe said.

"Also, neither of these officers tried to ease her obvious discomfort by talking to her directly, until they were about to get back into their vehicle.. The final comments from the driver were, 'Just because it's not against the law, doesn't mean we shouldn't point out something that might save somebody's life', nodding his head towards me, he then added, 'Think about it... if it was against the law I'd be arresting you and detaining you'.

"My final comment was to ask, 'Do you stop every cyclist you see without a helmet?'. To which he replied: 'I do, when I see a little five, six, or seven-year-old girl'."

When contacted for comment on the incident, West Midlands Police defended the officers' approach and stated that "road safety is a priority for us and we will always look to educate road users on how they can keep safe."

The force has previously come under criticism for its response to camera footage of alleged dangerous driving, West Midlands Police this year admitting that it needed to review how reports were managed after reporting by this website, supported by an FOI request by Chris Smith, found that of 286 reports of careless, inconsiderate, or dangerous driving around cyclists considered by West Midlands Police in 2022, only one resulted in a prosecution.

Saturday's incident also comes at the end of a summer when the force said it had undertaken a "relentless enforcement of the rules of the road" after multiple cyclists and pedestrians were killed in a series of hit-and-runs and collisions in Birmingham.

A father of a two-year-old boy was killed in a hit-and-run while cycling on 16 May, weeks before a 12-year-old riding a bike was also killed, and a driver arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving and being unfit to drive through drugs. On 29 May, a cyclist was killed in a further hit-and-run before a four-year-old boy was killed after being hit by a driver in Erdington a day later.

The deaths prompted the West Midlands' Walking and Cycling Commissioner Adam Tranter to call for urgent action to "turn the tide on aggressive driving in Birmingham".

Just yesterday we reported a step West Midlands Police had taken in the force's attempt to address aforementioned issues with the camera footage submitting process, officers celebrating "action taken against hundreds of careless and dangerous drivers" and calling for more public submissions.

The force increased resources in its Traffic Investigations Unit responsible for processing third-party footage and thanked the public for the "great response to the bolstering of the team" and said "road users who send us footage say they're pleased with the results and the feedback given".

"We've got a vital role to play in keeping the roads safe, but we can't be everywhere all the time," Tanya Johnson said. "That's why it’s great that we're getting so many clips in. In more than 140 cases last month, we didn't need to issue points, fines or court action, but offered education and advice to drivers.

"That will make those motorists think twice about the standard of their driving, and that could well save lives."

https://road.cc/content/news/police-stop-cyclist-and-girl-8-helmet-safety-advice-304655

On 23/10/2023 08:22 pm, Simon Mason wrote:

> When one Birmingham cyclist's Saturday bike ride with his eight-year-old granddaughter was interrupted by the sound of police sirens they carefully continued on their way for a few seconds, after all it seemed implausible the noise could be for the pair "not doing anything wrong", using a short stretch of cycle lane before returning to their preferred off-road routes for the remainder of the 12.5-mile ride.
> "Can you pull over so we can have a word?" the voice behind the sirens asked, the police car, blue lights flashing, pulling alongside before coming to a stop at the side of the road.
> What followed was, in one officer's words, just "a conversation" about road safety, namely the fact that neither Joe nor his eight-year-old granddaughter were wearing a helmet, an incident which has put her off cycling.
> "On getting out of the vehicle the driver made a comment about us riding in the road without helmets," Joe recalled, referring to his camera footage which he did not wish to be shared but captured the full incident. "I asked, 'Is that illegal?'... 'No' was the answer, so I followed up by asking, 'Why are you pulling us over then?'
> "In reply to this the officer said, 'I'm not here to have a go at you, or tell you you've broken the law, I'm not doing that... neither of you have done anything wrong, I'm just saying, just be sensible, that's it. No trouble, I'm not telling you you've broken the law, I'm just having a conversation with you'.
> "I then followed this up by saying, 'There's no need. You've stopped us on a hill... I can't understand why you've stopped us, if we're doing nothing wrong.' The reply was, 'Because it's dangerous'."
> Wearing a helmet while cycling is not a legal requirement in the United Kingdom, as it is in some other countries such as Australia, but is recommended by the Highway Code. [ ... ]

And that's weird, because chavs like May Sun and the rest of the nutters
at road.cc FREQUENTLY refer to Highway Code recommendations when they
refer to normal people in motor vehicles, but when those recommendations
refer to themselves, as chavs on bikes, they suddenly go all coy.

One wonders how they can square away the inconsistency.

But then, they don't have to make sense (and rarely do).

> https://road.cc/content/news/police-stop-cyclist-and-girl-8-helmet-safety-advice-304655

Hirsute | 12 hours ago
13 likes

"if a car careers in to you, not wearing a helmet, you're going to know about it".

Where can I get one of these magic helmets from?
Those police officers need some very basic training if that think that being hit by 2T at 50 kph will be mitigated by a helmet
What do they tell peds walking on a footway ?

On 24/10/2023 08:31 am, Simon Mason wrote:

> Hirsute | 12 hours ago
> 13 likes
>
> "if a car careers in to you, not wearing a helmet, you're going to know about it".

> Where can I get one of these magic helmets from?
> Those police officers need some very basic training if that think that being hit by 2T at 50 kph will be mitigated by a helmet
> What do they tell peds walking on a footway ?

Who, other than you, mentioned "50kph"?

The advice to chavs like you wear a helmet when riding on your
fairy-cycle is given in order to assist in mitigation of a head injury
when your head eventually reaches the ground after a collision. This is
the case whether the collision is with another road-user, a street-light
column, a dry-stone wall, a granite kerb, a parked vehicle or even a
pedestrian on a pedestrian crossing. Contrary to opinion published here
in the past, your head does not have some magic aura which lets it hover
a few mm away from all hard surfaces with which it might collide.
Neither does the head of a child.

Actually, you knew that, but chose to peevishly ignore it.

OTOH, we are all aware that the choice is yours and that you are
entitled not to mitigate that risk to yourself, for your own reasons.
Perhaps it *isn't* a choice automatically and meaningfully available to
a small child, though. And perhaps adults accompanying small children on
fairy-bikes on the highway can usefully be reminded that protection is
possible.

Deliberately denying such protection to a small child purely because of
one's own ideology would be seen by some as a form of child abuse.

Car Delenda Est wrote:

Pretty equivalent to a driver being stopped and given advice on how more reflective paint would be safer.

Except for the fact that a driver poses far more danger to other road users than an 8-year old and her grand-dad does, cycling along.

JNugent <jnugent@mail.com> wrote:
> On 24/10/2023 08:31 am, Simon Mason wrote:
>
>> Hirsute | 12 hours ago
>> 13 likes
>>
>> "if a car careers in to you, not wearing a helmet, you're going to know about it".
>
>> Where can I get one of these magic helmets from?

>> Those police officers need some very basic training if that think that
>> being hit by 2T at 50 kph will be mitigated by a helmet

[…]

> Deliberately denying such protection to a small child purely because of
> one's own ideology would be seen by some as a form of child abuse.

Exactly. That’s why in some countries vegan parents are not allowed to
foist vegan-only food on their children. Or pets, for that matter.

--
Spike

Simon Mason <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:

> Car Delenda Est wrote:

> Pretty equivalent to a driver being stopped and given advice on how
> more reflective paint would be safer.

> Except for the fact that a driver poses far more danger to other road
> users than an 8-year old and her grand-dad does, cycling along.

I see ‘Car Delenda Est’ misses the point by at least 1.5m…perhaps the only
number he can remember.

--
Spike

Simon Mason <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hirsute | 12 hours ago
> 13 likes

> "if a car careers in to you, not wearing a helmet, you're going to know about it".

> Where can I get one of these magic helmets from?

> Those police officers need some very basic training if that think that
> being hit by 2T at 50 kph will be mitigated by a helmet

Some 20% of cyclists die in Single Vehicle Accidents, a shocking statistic
that the cycling media totally ignore in their rush to promote cycling. Two
tons of 50kph motor vehicle are not involved in such deaths.

> What do they tell peds walking on a footway ?

To watch out for footway cyclists, who they can’t touch for breaking the
law?

--
Spike

OI - Officer.
Where's your plastic hat?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9JGBLZWwAAKc3c?format=jpg&name=medium

Simon Mason <swldxer1958@gmail.com> wrote:

> OI - Officer, where's your plastic hat?

> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9JGBLZWwAAKc3c?format=jpg&name=medium

Perhaps they don’t want to look like tits?

--
Spike

On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 12:55:32 PM UTC+1, Simon Mason wrote:
> OI - Officer.
> Where's your plastic hat?
>
> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9JGBLZWwAAKc3c?format=jpg&name=medium

Watch out for the NO ENTRY sign!