Just a bit of rambling, but this seemed the forum most likely to know.

(1) Salt used to be rare and valuable, hence a person being "worth their
salt" which I understand is to be worth the cost of the salt needed to
keep them alive.

(2) Retreating invaders or vindictive conquerors are said to have "salted
the earth" to render it barren so the local inhabitants could not grow
crops, and thus starve or move away.

This raises the question of how much salt would be needed to render ground
unable to support plant life, and how long the salt would remain in the
ground before it was washed away.

Considering also that reclaimed salt marsh can be very fertile.

I am currently contemplating the baggage train which is carrying enough
(spare) precious salt to salt the land of a Kingdom.

This could have a bearing on using salt to kill off persistent weeds.

Cheers

Dave R

--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 10 x64

Salting the earth leads to persistent infertility only in places where
the evaporation exceeds the precipitation at all times, otherwise it
will leach away into the groundwater. It cannot be done in the British
Isles, no matter how much you use, which is why (say) the 1947 floods
had no long-term effect on the Fenland's fertility.

As to how much you need, I can't say, but it is a lot.

Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 10/12/2023 15:09, Nick Maclaren wrote:
> Salting the earth leads to persistent infertility only in places where
> the evaporation exceeds the precipitation at all times, otherwise it
> will leach away into the groundwater. It cannot be done in the British
> Isles, no matter how much you use, which is why (say) the 1947 floods
> had no long-term effect on the Fenland's fertility.
>
> As to how much you need, I can't say, but it is a lot.
>
>
> Regards,
> Nick Maclaren.

Sodium chlorate, rather than chloride is better, but is now unobtainable

But as you say, even that is not permanent.

--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's
too dark to read.

Groucho Marx

On 2023-12-10, David wrote:

> Just a bit of rambling, but this seemed the forum most likely to know.
>
> (1) Salt used to be rare and valuable, hence a person being "worth their
> salt" which I understand is to be worth the cost of the salt needed to
> keep them alive.
>
> (2) Retreating invaders or vindictive conquerors are said to have "salted
> the earth" to render it barren so the local inhabitants could not grow
> crops, and thus starve or move away.

The popular notion that the Romans salted the fields around Carthage
isn't in any of the ancient sources but seems to have been made up in
C.19.

On 2023-12-10, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 10/12/2023 15:09, Nick Maclaren wrote:
>> Salting the earth leads to persistent infertility only in places where
>> the evaporation exceeds the precipitation at all times, otherwise it
>> will leach away into the groundwater. It cannot be done in the British
>> Isles, no matter how much you use, which is why (say) the 1947 floods
>> had no long-term effect on the Fenland's fertility.
>>
>> As to how much you need, I can't say, but it is a lot.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Nick Maclaren.
>
> Sodium chlorate, rather than chloride is better, but is now unobtainable

And if you can find it, don't get it on your clothes.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploding_trousers>

On 10/12/2023 14:37, David wrote:
> Just a bit of rambling, but this seemed the forum most likely to know.
>
> (1) Salt used to be rare and valuable, hence a person being "worth their
> salt" which I understand is to be worth the cost of the salt needed to
> keep them alive.
>
> (2) Retreating invaders or vindictive conquerors are said to have "salted
> the earth" to render it barren so the local inhabitants could not grow
> crops, and thus starve or move away.
>
> This raises the question of how much salt would be needed to render ground
> unable to support plant life, and how long the salt would remain in the
> ground before it was washed away.
>
> Considering also that reclaimed salt marsh can be very fertile.
>
> I am currently contemplating the baggage train which is carrying enough
> (spare) precious salt to salt the land of a Kingdom.
>
> This could have a bearing on using salt to kill off persistent weeds.
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> Dave R
>
>

The Great Storm of 1703 , of Daniel DeFoe book fame.
8,000 to 15,000 lives were lost gives how extreme it was, eg compared to
1987 'hurricane'.
So much spray was lifted from the sea onto the land that it lay thick on
the fields of southern England and crops were ruined for some years.

--
Global sea level rise to 2100 from curve-fitted existing altimetry data
<http://diverse.4mg.com/slr.htm>

In article <ulhs3l$1v0r3$1@dont-email.me>, N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
>
>The Great Storm of 1703 , of Daniel DeFoe book fame.
>8,000 to 15,000 lives were lost gives how extreme it was, eg compared to
>1987 'hurricane'.

Not entirely. A lot of the lives lost were people on ships, which
were much more numerous and more vulnerable. But it was a lot more
severe.

>So much spray was lifted from the sea onto the land that it lay thick on
>the fields of southern England and crops were ruined for some years.

That sounds rather like journalistic exaggeration. Spray contains
much less water than solid water, and it wasn't that bad when the
Fens flooded. For the next year, very probably, but any subsequent
crop failures would be unlikely to be due to the salt. Remember
that even the driest parts of England get 18-19" of rain a year,
and evaporation is only 11".

Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 15/12/2023 17:54, Nick Maclaren wrote:
> In article <ulhs3l$1v0r3$1@dont-email.me>, N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> The Great Storm of 1703 , of Daniel DeFoe book fame.
>> 8,000 to 15,000 lives were lost gives how extreme it was, eg compared to
>> 1987 'hurricane'.
>
> Not entirely. A lot of the lives lost were people on ships, which
> were much more numerous and more vulnerable. But it was a lot more
> severe.
>
>> So much spray was lifted from the sea onto the land that it lay thick on
>> the fields of southern England and crops were ruined for some years.
>
> That sounds rather like journalistic exaggeration. Spray contains
> much less water than solid water, and it wasn't that bad when the
> Fens flooded. For the next year, very probably, but any subsequent
> crop failures would be unlikely to be due to the salt. Remember
> that even the driest parts of England get 18-19" of rain a year,
> and evaporation is only 11".
>
Also this was in the middle of the Little Ice Age which would have had
an effect on crops.

john

On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 15:41:57 +0000, N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:

>On 10/12/2023 14:37, David wrote:
>> Just a bit of rambling, but this seemed the forum most likely to know.
>>
>> (1) Salt used to be rare and valuable, hence a person being "worth their
>> salt" which I understand is to be worth the cost of the salt needed to
>> keep them alive.
>>
>> (2) Retreating invaders or vindictive conquerors are said to have "salted
>> the earth" to render it barren so the local inhabitants could not grow
>> crops, and thus starve or move away.
>>
>> This raises the question of how much salt would be needed to render ground
>> unable to support plant life, and how long the salt would remain in the
>> ground before it was washed away.
>>
>> Considering also that reclaimed salt marsh can be very fertile.
>>
>> I am currently contemplating the baggage train which is carrying enough
>> (spare) precious salt to salt the land of a Kingdom.
>>
>> This could have a bearing on using salt to kill off persistent weeds.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>>
>>
>> Dave R
>>
>>
>
>The Great Storm of 1703 , of Daniel DeFoe book fame.
>8,000 to 15,000 lives were lost gives how extreme it was, eg compared to
>1987 'hurricane'.
>So much spray was lifted from the sea onto the land that it lay thick on
>the fields of southern England and crops were ruined for some years.

In my last bungalow, we were about 150yds from the sea as the seagull
flies, and at an altitude of about 400ft. After winter storms, our
windows would have a crust of salt around the edges of the panes. We
would sometimes see tennis-ball-sized balls of sea-foam blowing across
the garden. After a storm I would gather sack-loads of seaweed from
the beach below and spread it directly on the garden as a mulch
without attempting to remove the salt on it. Although I never grew
vegetables, we were surrounded by fields which regularly grew
potatoes, broccoli and barley in season. So we all got plenty of salt
spray, but with no apparent effect on the plants that were grown.

--
Chris

Gardening in West Cornwall, very mild, sheltered
from the West, but open to the North and East.

In article <0i5pnil8dfecb10pe8avdq0ue009qgil44@4ax.com>,
me@privacy.net says...
>
> On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 15:41:57 +0000, N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >On 10/12/2023 14:37, David wrote:
> >> Just a bit of rambling, but this seemed the forum most likely to know.
> >>
> >> (1) Salt used to be rare and valuable, hence a person being "worth their
> >> salt" which I understand is to be worth the cost of the salt needed to
> >> keep them alive.
> >>
> >> (2) Retreating invaders or vindictive conquerors are said to have "salted
> >> the earth" to render it barren so the local inhabitants could not grow
> >> crops, and thus starve or move away.
> >>
> >> This raises the question of how much salt would be needed to render ground
> >> unable to support plant life, and how long the salt would remain in the
> >> ground before it was washed away.
> >>
> >> Considering also that reclaimed salt marsh can be very fertile.
> >>
> >> I am currently contemplating the baggage train which is carrying enough
> >> (spare) precious salt to salt the land of a Kingdom.
> >>
> >> This could have a bearing on using salt to kill off persistent weeds.
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Dave R
> >>
> >>
> >
> >The Great Storm of 1703 , of Daniel DeFoe book fame.
> >8,000 to 15,000 lives were lost gives how extreme it was, eg compared to
> >1987 'hurricane'.
> >So much spray was lifted from the sea onto the land that it lay thick on
> >the fields of southern England and crops were ruined for some years.
>
> In my last bungalow, we were about 150yds from the sea as the seagull
> flies, and at an altitude of about 400ft. After winter storms, our
> windows would have a crust of salt around the edges of the panes. We
> would sometimes see tennis-ball-sized balls of sea-foam blowing across
> the garden. After a storm I would gather sack-loads of seaweed from
> the beach below and spread it directly on the garden as a mulch
> without attempting to remove the salt on it. Although I never grew
> vegetables, we were surrounded by fields which regularly grew
> potatoes, broccoli and barley in season. So we all got plenty of salt
> spray, but with no apparent effect on the plants that were grown.

The same here on Arran. I've been salting my garden with
seaweed for decades.

In addition, one of the golf courses is covered by
seawater several times a year.. with no ill effect after
it drains away.

Janet

On 15/12/2023 19:23, Janet wrote:
> In article <0i5pnil8dfecb10pe8avdq0ue009qgil44@4ax.com>,
> me@privacy.net says...
>>
>> On Fri, 15 Dec 2023 15:41:57 +0000, N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/12/2023 14:37, David wrote:
>>>> Just a bit of rambling, but this seemed the forum most likely to know.
>>>>
>>>> (1) Salt used to be rare and valuable, hence a person being "worth their
>>>> salt" which I understand is to be worth the cost of the salt needed to
>>>> keep them alive.
>>>>
>>>> (2) Retreating invaders or vindictive conquerors are said to have "salted
>>>> the earth" to render it barren so the local inhabitants could not grow
>>>> crops, and thus starve or move away.
>>>>
>>>> This raises the question of how much salt would be needed to render ground
>>>> unable to support plant life, and how long the salt would remain in the
>>>> ground before it was washed away.
>>>>
>>>> Considering also that reclaimed salt marsh can be very fertile.
>>>>
>>>> I am currently contemplating the baggage train which is carrying enough
>>>> (spare) precious salt to salt the land of a Kingdom.
>>>>
>>>> This could have a bearing on using salt to kill off persistent weeds.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dave R
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> The Great Storm of 1703 , of Daniel DeFoe book fame.
>>> 8,000 to 15,000 lives were lost gives how extreme it was, eg compared to
>>> 1987 'hurricane'.
>>> So much spray was lifted from the sea onto the land that it lay thick on
>>> the fields of southern England and crops were ruined for some years.
>>
>> In my last bungalow, we were about 150yds from the sea as the seagull
>> flies, and at an altitude of about 400ft. After winter storms, our
>> windows would have a crust of salt around the edges of the panes. We
>> would sometimes see tennis-ball-sized balls of sea-foam blowing across
>> the garden. After a storm I would gather sack-loads of seaweed from
>> the beach below and spread it directly on the garden as a mulch
>> without attempting to remove the salt on it. Although I never grew
>> vegetables, we were surrounded by fields which regularly grew
>> potatoes, broccoli and barley in season. So we all got plenty of salt
>> spray, but with no apparent effect on the plants that were grown.
>
> The same here on Arran. I've been salting my garden with
> seaweed for decades.
>
> In addition, one of the golf courses is covered by
> seawater several times a year.. with no ill effect after
> it drains away.
>
> Janet

A few years back (by which I probably mean in excess of ten) I came by
several 25kg sacks of road salt which for many seasons I used as a
winter mulch on my asparagus bed. My father used to use blocks of salt
on his, the same salt he used for preserving runner beans.

john

In article <MPG.3fe6b81feabe41cf989b1e@news.individual.net>,
Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:
>In article <0i5pnil8dfecb10pe8avdq0ue009qgil44@4ax.com>,
>me@privacy.net says...
>>
>
> In addition, one of the golf courses is covered by
>seawater several times a year.. with no ill effect after
>it drains away.

The ideal surface for golf courses is sea-washed turf!

However, some plants are sensitive to salt and will not grow by the
sea, so short-term damage is very plausible. But I really can't see
that lasting beyond the next season.

Regards,
Nick Maclaren.